Questions about Vertical Tika-Taka with 5-2-1-2 WB

[bluehefner]

Hi everyone,

For this years game (managing Man Utd) i'm thinking about switching from the traditional 4-2-3-1 Wide to a 5-2-1-2 WB system, this solves the problem United have with lack of quality right wingers and doesn't effect the use of their left wingers (Alexis, Rashford, Martial) as they're all natural strikers who can play in a 2 up front and i also like the the defensive protection i have with the 5 at the back, anyways my questions...

1) By default the vertical tika-taka focuses through the middle with narrow width, by using these instructions will i still make use of my wing backs? or would it benefit me to turn off the instruction to focus through the middle?

2) Also by default 'wait for underlap' is ticked in the team instructions, surely in the 5-2-1-2 WB system i should be using the 'wait for overlap option?' so central players can wait for the runs of my wing backs, especially as my two centre mids (Matic & Pogba) will be in playmaker roles without specific instructions to make forward runs.

Attached is what i'm thinking for the tactic, along with the signings i've made (Valencia will also be replaced with a natural wing back) and the only change i've made is moving from underlap to overlap instructions, i may need to change my width instructions based on the questions i've asked above. Any help is appreciated!

[Cleon]

1 - The wingbacks will still provide width. Whether there's a benefit for turning it off or not really depends on you and what you are expecting. If you think it makes sense to remove it then do it. Everyone will answer this question differently. But if something seems logical and makes sense and there's another way of achieving something for the football you are creating then just change it and see how it plays. The WB's will always be important due to the natural shape, regardless of what settings it has. 

2-  No, as the CM's will never (hardly ever) overlap the wingbacks. It makes much more sense that it uses underlap. 

[bluehefner]

17 minutes ago, Cleon said:

1 - The wingbacks will still provide width. Whether there's a benefit for turning it off or not really depends on you and what you are expecting. If you think it makes sense to remove it then do it. Everyone will answer this question differently. But if something seems logical and makes sense and there's another way of achieving something for the football you are creating then just change it and see how it plays. The WB's will always be important due to the natural shape, regardless of what settings it has. 

2-  No, as the CM's will never (hardly ever) overlap the wingbacks. It makes much more sense that it uses underlap. 

Thanks for the reply, based off your first answer i'm thinking maybe i should switch from verticle tika-taka to just the standard one, although the tactic is primarly a narrow tactic with the lack of wingers i dont want to restrict my team to only playing through the middle and want to make use of the attacking threat i have out wide where possible and i've always liked playing a wide system with plenty of wide runners in the past.

Might be confused on your second answer, doesn't overlap deal with runners out wide and underlap deals with runners in the central positions? If i want to wait of the runs of my wing backs wouldn't i user overlap?

[TottenhamBoi90]

I used vertical tiki taka with Koln for my first save and I changed it from underlaps to overlaps but left it on balanced and I only lost 4 games. In hindsight I should have gone positive mentality because I had quite a few 0-0s and generally a lack of key highlights. 

The benefits I had was the midfield dominated and when I got the ball out to a wing back I had good delivery and got nearly 10 assists each side, as I said before if I went positive I think they would near 15. The play also looked pretty nice and I think this style will be the best to see tricks and flicks if worked on abit more.

having a bash at wing play now with mk Dons 

as evra would say ... I love this game

[bluehefner]

34 minutes ago, TottenhamBoi90 said:

I used vertical tiki taka with Koln for my first save and I changed it from underlaps to overlaps but left it on balanced and I only lost 4 games. In hindsight I should have gone positive mentality because I had quite a few 0-0s and generally a lack of key highlights. 

The benefits I had was the midfield dominated and when I got the ball out to a wing back I had good delivery and got nearly 10 assists each side, as I said before if I went positive I think they would near 15. The play also looked pretty nice and I think this style will be the best to see tricks and flicks if worked on abit more.

having a bash at wing play now with mk Dons 

as evra would say ... I love this game

Nice! Only lost 4 games all season? Pretty good. So overlapping worked for you then. I guess it depends where you have your runners coming from as to which one you'd pick, in my case i want to encourage runners from out wide because i don't want to abandon width completely and if i'm playing centre mids who hold they're position then runs will be rare from midfield.

I usually go with a attacking mentality when i'm at home to any side outside of the top 6 (roughly) probably balanced or positive for other games against trickier sides.

So did you still have the instructions set to focus down the middle? and did you still see plenty of wing play? Like i said above, i'm toying with the idea to do a regular tika-taka just to find that balance between keeping the ball and having that extra width.

Also i'm thinking that having Matic in a defensive deep lying role might be needed less in this formation, as i have the cover from my 3 centre backs, 4 defensive duties seems a little high to me. Maybe in trickier games i'd use him in that role and in other games have him on support or play someone like Herrera as B2B.

[Tinkerman84]

My question is what would be the best formation and general approach  to play and beat  5-2-1-2 with WBs.?

( Assumptions: they defend deep with intense pressing, and quick transitons to attack.)