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Hi, after posting my issues with the ME. Mitja suggested I try beta. I have just played my first game, so very early days, but thought I'd offer some my first impressions, which I will update as I go on. Now played three games.

PROS:

Keeper does not look as stiff and balls did not bounce off him like before. Also, one tremendous flying tip over.

Did concede from a corner and a corner-like set piece. But still not as overpowered as previously.

There were only two clear striker on keeper chances (used to seem about ten a game in other engine - all of which were missed) and one was saved and the other scored.

Closing down seems more realistic. No more school playground bunches of people. Players went in ones and twos.

Goal variation seems better. Lovely blast from outside area into bottom corner and a lovely run across the edge and curled pass into bottom corner. Not seen anything like that previously.

 

CONS:

Mainly to do with strikers. As others have said, F9s do not drop off. They push up against. I then changed at half-time to a PF (A) and a DLF (S) and very much the same. I noticed the DLF did drop back a bit (edge of area) but only once the winger or fullback had gone past them. When I have deep possession, I want my DLF to drop into the space between the oppositions defence and midfield to receive the ball to feet and bring others into play. He did not do that at all.  

In past two games there have been more one-on-ones with obligatory misses, so this still needs work.

 

Will update more as I play more games, but wanted to say well done to SI for this. In the past it has felt a bit like head and brick wall, but this is much better.

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I suggest people (specially those who are not satisfied) not to post their feedbacks on the ME based on one match. After the recent ME update, I played a match with same tactics which I used to good effect on previous ME, but the football played after the update was aweful. I then made some tweaks and played few more matches and watched them on full. I was pleasantly surprised by all the tweaks and fixes and posted my review here in detail here afterwards. 

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After playing more and more matches, still seeing an unrealistic percentage of goals from set pieces (mainly corners) and wide areas. When you watch 1-2 games, ME feels great. But the more you watch, the more you see the trend, and it starts losing it's charm because it becomes so predictable. It's like every team is packing the middle of their defense with flat 4 defenders and 2 DMC's, and the attackers are always forced to play it wide to a completely unmarked wing back. I only played the demos for FM 16, 17 and 18, but this has been the main theme for 3 years, going into 4th now. It's like there is a fundamental tweak needed, I don't know. It's just not fun. Otherwise great looking ME.

 

 

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2 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

After playing more and more matches, still seeing an unrealistic percentage of goals from set pieces (mainly corners) and wide areas. When you watch 1-2 games, ME feels great. But the more you watch, the more you see the trend, and it starts losing it's charm because it becomes so predictable. It's like every team is packing the middle of their defense with flat 4 defenders and 2 DMC's, and the attackers are always forced to play it wide to a completely unmarked wing back. I only played the demos for FM 16, 17 and 18, but this has been the main theme for 3 years, going into 4th now. It's like there is a fundamental tweak needed, I don't know. It's just not fun. Otherwise great looking ME.

 

 

It comes down to the lack of movement upfront in central areas. If they ever fix that, the rest falls into place. I do feel like despite so many balls going out wide the game is less "cross-manager" than FM18. Unfortunately though in the absence of so many goals from crosses the games are just a lot more boring. Organized attacks basically consist of knocking the ball around the edge of the box sometimes 20-30 seconds at a time and getting nowhere with it, and set pieces dominate instead. 

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Started on the public beta yesterday evening and notice a great improvement and I am playing as Liverpool and I had Clyne get the ball on the right and he hit a lovely pass to Mo who took it on the volley just inside the box and scored.

The tactics I have are based on Liverpool and they seem to play the way I want them to, with overlapping and quick transitions to the from three.

defending seems a bit hit and miss as VVD keeps giving the ball away but overall I have had a good mix of goals and I am impressed.

Its not only the goals but the blocking has improved along with the hunting down of players and I am sure it cant be far away from release now.

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5 hours ago, bleventozturk said:

After playing more and more matches, still seeing an unrealistic percentage of goals from set pieces (mainly corners) and wide areas. When you watch 1-2 games, ME feels great. But the more you watch, the more you see the trend, and it starts losing it's charm because it becomes so predictable. It's like every team is packing the middle of their defense with flat 4 defenders and 2 DMC's, and the attackers are always forced to play it wide to a completely unmarked wing back. I only played the demos for FM 16, 17 and 18, but this has been the main theme for 3 years, going into 4th now. It's like there is a fundamental tweak needed, I don't know. It's just not fun. Otherwise great looking ME.

 

 

Yep. This is why I went back to FM14. In two days playing that version I've seen more different types of goals than I did my whole time with FM18 and thus far in FM19 combined. Something is fundamentally wrong.

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10 minutes ago, RocheBag said:

Yep. This is why I went back to FM14. In two days playing that version I've seen more different types of goals than I did my whole time with FM18 and thus far in FM19 combined. Something is fundamentally wrong.

Was it FM16 where they changed the engine? So FM15 should also play quite well?

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8 minutes ago, craiigman said:

Was it FM16 where they changed the engine? So FM15 should also play quite well?

Don't quite remember mate. Just had a save I was keen to continue from 14 so that's the one I went for. I'll come back and give 19 a try after the last big patch and see what its like, but for now I can't stand the same goal over and over and my wingbacks leading the league in assists.

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A brief summary:

+ dwelling on the ball instead of crossing has been tweaked to an acceptable amount

+ transitioning with short passes is now possible so directness has been toned down

+ pressing is tweaked so the players are less likely to chase the same player

- movement in the final third is still not acceptable

- there doesn’t seem to be much of a distinction between support and attack duties in the AMR/L & striker strata (haven’t tested with AMC), very often my winger on support was just as advanced as the raumdauter on the other wing

- wide players are still getting narrow if the opponent defence gets narrow

 

 

These are the pros and cons. Still some work to be done but as I said before, there is progress in the ME evolution so hopefully SI keeps working hard to achieve that sweet spot we all want from the game. I will likely post a big thread in the bug section with screenies comparing FM19 and FM15 (I have this on my work laptop so I’ll work with it) so hopefully this will be helpful to SI.

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2 hours ago, craiigman said:

What I meant was they changed something quite major on FM16 didn’t they? Compared to previous versions. 

There was also a big change between 12 and 13 I believe, but yes I remember another engine overhaul after 15, because that's why I stopped after 15 and played that version for a very long time. FM 19 beta looked very promising from the start and I rolled the dice on it and bought the game. Now hoping they will come up with a reasonable fix otherwise I don't think I will enjoy this ME either.

Like I said, I think there is something fundamentally wrong in these series since FM16 that they could not quite fix yet and still working hard to balance things. I also remember people complaining about the gap between the CB's and fullbacks in FM 14, 15, and after that in my opinion they over-corrected that and the fullbacks have been staying way too close to the central defenders ever since, leaving no space in the center, but giving so much space to the supporting and attacking wingbacks. A natural knock on is the insane amount of crosses, goals from wide areas, and high match ratings for the fullbacks. 

If you watch the ME carefully, you can't miss how fundamentally wrong the fullback positioning in defense is. But yes, I also agree that there is lack of movement at the center areas, and it will certainly help if they at least improve that. 

On a side note, if they change the positioning of fullbacks to make them sit a little wider, that will probably have a huge knock on and 3 striker tactics will be overpowered again. I don't know, but the space they give to supporting/attacking wingbacks every single possession just does not look/feel right. It's like the defenders keep forgetting about the existence of opposing wingbacks, and completely ignore them until the ball goes to them, which is inevitable in every possession because the center of the field is so crowded, AND the center forwards are not even trying to create separation.

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1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

another engine overhaul after 15

If that's an overhaul, then every year is. After FM15, counter attacking was looked at and started to be properly potent again. Managers stopped being so overly defensive. Both those things being an issue made FM15 extremely easy.

Now, the feedback on the BETA? What's yours? I remember you had some good posts back then.

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1 hour ago, bleventozturk said:

If you watch the ME carefully, you can't miss how fundamentally wrong the fullback positioning in defense is. But yes, I also agree that there is lack of movement at the center areas, and it will certainly help if they at least improve that. 

On a side note, if they change the positioning of fullbacks to make them sit a little wider, that will probably have a huge knock on and 3 striker tactics will be overpowered again.

can't say i noticed fundamental issue with their positioning, there's big issue with fullbacks not closing down opposition winger and retreating too deep instead. there's even bigger issue with FBs being able to cross totally unrealistic number of crosses in some matches, like double the amount of avarage EPL team just one FB. as i have shown there are issues with wide forwards staying too advanced in defensive phase or FBs being positioned too aggressivly.

fullback retreating issue (first two pics):

89db9f83a87777c2e1f5c511459593c3.png

a497ac8b8cbb1e8e4a54b8c948d6ec52.png

eaeccf1086106080031fc7757a4630a0.png

8d6ee196e8c8ff16efa8e902df7738f3.png

last two pics, wingers not retreating issue.

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even more interesting part that most logical thing in 3 vs 2 situation - counter-attack never happens. in the last pic the ball was intercepted and we ended with corner (because of players not passing forwards issue) what should be almost a certain goal.

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vor einer Stunde schrieb Neil Brock:

Just a small update, changelist is as follows:

19.2.0 Changelist (ME1920)

- Addressed a couple of minor AI logic bugs 
- Toned down number of yellow and red cards 

- Toned down number of yellow and red cards   .... You Guys are Legends !!

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I'm worried about behavior of FB(d) in this moment (#27)

He keeps movement parallel to the sideline and dont try to mark/pressing of Candreva (I use extra pressing and high defence line in this game)

426487275_Image7.thumb.png.5c78f84ada498b6c1566f419c7bd0216.png

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4 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

I'm worried about behavior of FB(d) in this moment (#27)

He keeps movement parallel to the sideline and dont try to mark/pressing of Candreva (I use extra pressing and high defence line in this game)

426487275_Image7.thumb.png.5c78f84ada498b6c1566f419c7bd0216.png

thats the issue and there's thread about it beta forums, hope you can contribute maybe with few examples and pkm. cheers.

 

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1 hour ago, Novem9 said:

I'm worried about behavior of FB(d) in this moment (#27)

He keeps movement parallel to the sideline and dont try to mark/pressing of Candreva (I use extra pressing and high defence line in this game)

426487275_Image7.thumb.png.5c78f84ada498b6c1566f419c7bd0216.png

Especially in transition (losing the ball) they seem coded to sprint to specified position. They ignore PIs to mark tight/press high when moving to this specified position. 

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Hey guys, could somebody be so kind to place a short clip of the attack leading to the 6-0 goal starting at 61.14 from attached match in FM18? I would love to show you guys this but I do not know how :(

I am absolutely certain the lack of first touch, full open turns and ball controls facing forwards is the area SI needs to take a closer look at in order to get more central play and through balls in the ME of FM19.

What you will see at the 61.14 mark in this particular attack is the vital turn open movement first by Arthur and then second after he passes it to Saviv Milinkovic you will see him also already facing the goal in a straight line, immediately being able to give a through ball.

@Mitja was so kind to open a thread on turning issues in the public beta ME bugs forum. And I think it needs a lot more attention. Just look at how fantastic creative midfield players are positioned when receiving the ball in ME1920 or all previous ones most of the times. Either the are facing the ball player or they make a 1/2 or 3/4 of a turn so at the end they are only able to pass to the sides.

FM18 is way advanced in terms of midfielders being able to control the ball and quickly face the goal and therefore have full vision of the off the ball movement of players in front of him. It just leads to a much better spread of passes through the middle. The attacking dynamics that FM18 provides is completely lacking in ME19. It quite honestly is a shocking difference at the moment.

Liverpool v Wolves (FM18 Mensell76).pkm

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7 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Hey guys, could somebody be so kind to place a short clip of the attack leading to the 6-0 goal starting at 61.14 from attached match in FM18? I would love to show you guys this but I do not know how :(

I am absolutely certain the lack of first touch, full open turns and ball controls facing forwards is the area SI needs to take a closer look at in order to get more central play and through balls in the ME of FM19.

What you will see at the 61.14 mark in this particular attack is the vital turn open movement first by Arthur and then second after he passes it to Saviv Milinkovic you will see him also already facing the goal in a straight line, immediately being able to give a through ball.

@Mitja was so kind to open a thread on turning issues in the public beta ME bugs forum. And I think it needs a lot more attention. Just look at how fantastic creative midfield players are positioned when receiving the ball in ME1920 or all previous ones most of the times. Either the are facing the ball player or they make a 1/2 or 3/4 of a turn so at the end they are only able to pass to the sides.

FM18 is way advanced in terms of midfielders being able to control the ball and quickly face the goal and therefore have full vision of the off the ball movement of players in front of him. It just leads to a much better spread of passes through the middle. The attacking dynamics that FM18 provides is completely lacking in ME19. It quite honestly is a shocking difference at the moment.

Liverpool v Wolves (FM18 Mensell76).pkm

They are already aware of turning issues, something that was looked at in version 1918, and is now better than what it was previosuly. But what's needed now is more examples of where it's still happening, especially when happening to high balance/agility players (ie David Silva types). Examples where the player should either be pirouetting faster, or already on the half turn

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16 minutes ago, themadsheep2001 said:

They are already aware of turning issues, something that was looked at in version 1918, and is now better than what it was previosuly. But what's needed now is more examples of where it's still happening, especially when happening to high balance/agility players (ie David Silva types). Examples where the player should either be pirouetting faster, or already on the half turn

Allright, new information for me. Have not seen any reaction by SI so far on the lack of turning ? Perhaps I missed it ? The specific ME1918 changelog does say something about passing accuracy and decisionmaking but that does not seem to the with the actual turning.

Having played full matches on me1920 with Real Madrid I hardly ever seeing Isco, Kroos, Modric, Asensio turn open fully and reach a full open vision , then opting for a forward center pass.

 

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22 minutes ago, Mensell76 said:

Allright, new information for me. Have not seen any reaction by SI so far on the lack of turning ? Perhaps I missed it ? The specific ME1918 changelog does say something about passing accuracy and decisionmaking but that does not seem to the with the actual turning.

Having played full matches on me1920 with Real Madrid I hardly ever seeing Isco, Kroos, Modric, Asensio turn open fully and reach a full open vision , then opting for a forward center pass.

 

3 or 4 games worth would be plenty with Madrid, plenty of that type player. The key is the extreme examples. Players shouldn't always be able to turn or make the right decision 

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As an interesting observation regarding set pieces/goals:

 

SI have always stated that they never support a truly set piece editor as they are aware that it can oft be exploited. Some prior FM releases had outright corner bugs/Exploits which could settle every other match every week as is, with centre backs able to score 10-20+ goals per season (never used by the AI systematically, and thus a gigantic edge for the player).

The set piece stats tend support SI's stance. In-game, it tends to be simply the sides mostly parking in the opposition final third for most minutes of the season (for tactical reasons) that a) see more set pieces and b) tend to convert the most. Those are typically the top teams in the table. In other words, set piece conversion is pretty leveled across FM's game world, whereas in real football it isn't. This is a generalization, but in football more limited sides tend to specialize in set pieces a tad more; whilst more capable sides don't to the same extent -- maybe because they don't need to. Therefore, in real football the correlation between the number of set pieces and set piece goals isn't near as linear; if Bayern ever took a corner in any of the more recent seasons, you may have as well taken a pee as **** all was going to happen anyway; whilst Pulis managed teams averaged up to a corner goal every 4-5th match despite a significant lower amount of such corners. In-game, West Brom would never top the set piece scoring charts simply because they have a significant lower amount of set pieces. Whilst versa Bayern et all in tendency always would, simply because they have a load of corners.

Whilst as a top side you traditionally face a lot of defensive opposition that is out to frustrate you; you should benefit from set pieces on average more than any of your opposition over the season/s. Most of the play will happen in your opposition's final third, and thus you will have more set pieces. Plus, if you still find a way that would dramatically improve set piece conversion over the AI despite the lack of truly set piece editors....

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10 hours ago, Lanko said:

Will the new patch put Kosovo with dynamic continental spots? 

No, as stated before we don't have the relevant information to do this. Kosovo originally had 1 CL and 1 EL spot for the 2016/17 season when admitted into UEFA. We're not sure if this is still the case or whether this was a temporary measure.

So far we've been unable to find information online confirming or denying if they act like every other European country and can gain more UEFA competition places by rising in the overall club coefficients table. Until we're provided with this information it will remain as it currently is. 

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9 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

But what's needed now is more examples of where it's still happening, especially when happening to high balance/agility players (ie David Silva types). Examples where the player should either be pirouetting faster, or already on the half turn

it takes far too long for simple body action to turn around for 180, not just with the ball. we are not talking about making turn with first touch after receiving the pass from 30 meteres which should indeed be reserved for best players.

also directly facing the player shouldn't afect player's vision since vision horizont is extended by human's neck so a player has clear picture of what's going on infront of him for 180 degrees, with many top-players being well awere what's going on behind them too.

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2 hours ago, teodoro said:

Hello there,

This, I like this.. a counter attack gameplay (direct pass) by my Norwich

Hard to play/set up with current version because counter attack style has been sadly heavily tuned down 

Greetings

 

This is not true at all. Just select the 'Counter' option in transition and your team will be looking to counter as soon you win the ball back. I'm playing this style at the moment to great success. All my goals come from direct counter attacks.

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11 hours ago, themadsheep2001 said:

3 or 4 games worth would be plenty with Madrid, plenty of that type player. The key is the extreme examples. Players shouldn't always be able to turn or make the right decision 

Posted the first examples in this thread:

players-turning issues

Of course I realise players should not always be able to turn therefore I am only focussing now on examples in which players have all the time to turn fully open to reach maximum vision of the space and players in front of him but doesn't.

Besides that there are many examples where under pressure the likes of Isco or Asensio should be able to turn if the first touch and decisionmaking in turning was sped up but don't (because in this ME they literally can't). A real issue seems to be that the receiver of the ball is almost always facing the ball passer, or starts facing him when receiving the ball, and then it will take too much time to turn. As in FM18 players should actually be able to be almost fully turned open, facing the opponents goal, before the ball reaches him in order to be able to accelerate play in a forward direction. This however just isn't the case in FM19. 3/4 

Off the ball movement by attackers is really hampered by this. They often do start good runs into depth but since the forward pass is not being given, they end up too deep too early and become static. The only way to reach the final third now is through the Wings.

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5 minuti fa, pats ha scritto:

This is not true at all. Just select the 'Counter' option in transition and your team will be looking to counter as soon you win the ball back. I'm playing this style at the moment to great success. All my goals come from direct counter attacks.

Thanks from tip..but Counter option has already been selected, of course
Can you please post your tactics?

Greetings

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Just played my first game under the public beta (1920). These are just some first impression; I haven't played enough games to see patterns in the play.

  • Current tactic not broken by the new ME, so that's good news. My tactic, though now playing slightly differently, is still effective.
  • Play seems much more controlled.  I play short passing and I am seeing much more of that and less hoofs from players apparently 'panicking'. Players also seem less prone to rush into a shot around the box and more likely to find a more sensible option.
  • Crosses into the first defender and out for a corner seem to have been toned down. Seems a bit more likely that the cross will go in, but get cleared by a defender in the box.
  • Starting to see a bit more central play, although I'd improved that in 1915 through use of an AP in the AML/R slot.

So far; so good - definitely better than the current live ME. 

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1 hour ago, teodoro said:

Thanks from tip..but Counter option has already been selected, of course
Can you please post your tactics?

Greetings

long balls over the top were toned down because they were almost an exploit. In reality, it's very hard to pull off such a move and get so many 1vs1 per match. Tweak your tactic for the new match engine, maybe give your deeper players instruction to hit the ball long and take more risks.

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4 hours ago, Neil Brock said:

No, as stated before we don't have the relevant information to do this. Kosovo originally had 1 CL and 1 EL spot for the 2016/17 season when admitted into UEFA. We're not sure if this is still the case or whether this was a temporary measure.

So far we've been unable to find information online confirming or denying if they act like every other European country and can gain more UEFA competition places by rising in the overall club coefficients table. Until we're provided with this information it will remain as it currently is. 

Well, Gibraltar started the same as Kosovo and got spots as normal after some time and requesting it. It's a precedent. There was nothing saying Gibraltar would or would not be able either.

Also, it's unlikely the AI will ever do anything noticeable with Kosovo anyway, but for anyone willing to play there for a long save... you pretty much just lock them out. 

Anyway, if SI is unwilling to do it oficially, can you at least make this available in the game's editor? I asked editors and they said it's pretty much impossible to do this (or a ridiculous amount of work - like rebuilding the entire continental competitions (and World's Club)) and to edit it through the editor.

If I can randomly toss hundreds of billions around from San Marino to Belarus and create fictional countries and competitions, surely this isn't just too much to ask?

 

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6 hours ago, teodoro said:

Thanks from tip..but Counter option has already been selected, of course
Can you please post your tactics?

Greetings

Sure. I can only post screenshots on Monday but here is the tactic:

4-4-2, balanced mentality, balanced width, slightly more direct passing, standard tempo, hit early crosses, float crosses, be more disciplined

Counter, counter press

Lower defensive line + standard line of engagement, extremely high pressing intensity, tight marking

Player roles and duties:

GK(d), CD(d),CD(d), FB(s/a), FB(s/a), CM(d), CM(s), DW(s), DW(s), PF(s), PF(A)

Crosses from deep for FBs and DWs, get further forward for DWs and CM(s)

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17 minuti fa, pats ha scritto:

Sure. I can only post screenshots on Monday but here is the tactic:

4-4-2, balanced mentality, balanced width, slightly more direct passing, standard tempo, hit early crosses, float crosses, be more disciplined

Counter, counter press

Lower defensive line + standard line of engagement, extremely high pressing intensity, tight marking

Player roles and duties:

GK(d), CD(d),CD(d), FB(s/a), FB(s/a), CM(d), CM(s), DW(s), DW(s), PF(s), PF(A)

Crosses from deep for FBs and DWs, get further forward for DWs and CM(s)

Thank you so much...

I'll give it  a try asap 

Cheers

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To many goals from shots from distance

lack of movement by the strikers 

BBM role is overpowered for me.. the AI defense always defend very deep and because of that the BBM or RPM always takes shots form 15-16 yards from the goal

Still stupid mistakes from the GK's sometimes 

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