Marko1989 Posted November 14, 2018 Share Posted November 14, 2018 Hi, I'm back to FM 2017 and I have problem with player development. I'm back to this version because I like almost everything from that one, except player development. Does anyone remember - did you have problems with this also? When it came out, I played just one long save, and there I had those problems also. Players would no change attributes at all sometimes. Here is one example, Bazoer. Screenshots posted are from the start of the season and from the end of the first season. Not a single attribute has changed and he is a player with great potential. And just one more example, I bought Pestos, greek defender with huge potential and after one year not a single attribute has changed. This is only FM where I have this problems. From 2015 I set up training in the same way. I always bring very good coaches and I set every player to training position/role they play in my formation. I give them playing time and their development is great. I played FM 2018 also, and there I did not had these problems at all. I remember in almost all versions, if you don't set training at all, and you give a minimum playing time for hot prospect he will change at least some attributes, this is very strange to me. I really want to continue playing 2017, but this is game breaking for me Edit: What is even more strange, is that green arrow at acceleration attribute. I noticed that in couple of players, there is green arrow on multiple attributes for a long time, but even with that nothing changes over the time Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snorks Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 54 minutes ago, Marko1989 said: Edit: What is even more strange, is that green arrow at acceleration attribute. I noticed that in couple of players, there is green arrow on multiple attributes for a long time, but even with that nothing changes over the time Can't help with the bulk of your question sorry, I can't remember as far back as FM17. AS far as the arrows and attributes go though, remember the attributes are actually measured to two decimal places. So while the players profile says '14' in actual fact this could be anywhere from 13.50 to 14.49. So it is ossible to see the green arrow for a while as the attribute increases without the '14' changing until it hits 14.50 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nacaw Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, Marko1989 said: Edit: What is even more strange, is that green arrow at acceleration attribute. I noticed that in couple of players, there is green arrow on multiple attributes for a long time, but even with that nothing changes over the time Attributes only go up by 0.2 at a time (you can click on the number to view the progression), so every green arrow doesn't necessarily mean +1 Are these players actually playing games? Usually it should happen almost on its own in that case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 I've just checked decimals for all attributes. And only on acceleration there is 13.4, not a single decimal has changed on any other atributes. Yes, he has started 14 games and 9 from the bench. I'm second in the Bundesliga so I'm playing very good. There is something definitely wrong here. Also in that very first save with Leverkusen, Julien Brandt after I won everything after 5 seasons his attributes did not changed even he is one of the best tallents in the game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 I don't know does this maybe have something with coaches workload, is "light" actually good or bad? I was never thinking about that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 How close is the player to his PA?- looking at the rating stars in the screenshot, he appears to be only half a star away and maybe he hasn't got much further to go in terms of CA and attribute improvement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 I'm not sure how I can check how close he is other than those stars.. Hm..If he has almost 5 stars potential at the beggining of the game, and he reach his potential at age of 20, then.. that is very stupid I must say. There is no way in the world that his passing for example or vision can reach the maximum at the age of 20. There is no logic at all in that. I think that is not the case.. I will change my training to high intesity for whole second season and will check then. Then third season I will let assitant to take care of my training completely Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Indemnity Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Scouting and star ratings are meant to be vague and uncertain. Just like in real life, a player can fall far short of the potential he was predicted to have as a teenager. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Guys, you can clearly see in my post and from my comments that problem is not only with this player. Two saves, multiple high rated youngsters. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 Anyways, he is in top10 midfielders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baodan Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 6 hours ago, Marko1989 said: I don't know does this maybe have something with coaches workload, is "light" actually good or bad? Light is good - Your goal here is Light in all training categories combined with 5/5 golden stars. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoolFan Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Honestly I know it's not the done thing but I use the editor precisely to see what's going on under the hood. I find a lot of FM so intentionally vague without it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Baodan said: Light is good - Your goal here is Light in all training categories combined with 5/5 golden stars. Ok thank you. 19 minutes ago, PoolFan said: Honestly I know it's not the done thing but I use the editor precisely to see what's going on under the hood. I find a lot of FM so intentionally vague without it. I really don't need editor for this. I know those players are huge potentials, I just can't find out what the problem is when it comes to slow development Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 13 hours ago, Marko1989 said: I'm not sure how I can check how close he is other than those stars.. Hm..If he has almost 5 stars potential at the beggining of the game, and he reach his potential at age of 20, then.. that is very stupid I must say. There is no way in the world that his passing for example or vision can reach the maximum at the age of 20. There is no logic at all in that. I think that is not the case.. I will change my training to high intesity for whole second season and will check then. Then third season I will let assitant to take care of my training completely I mean, you're basically answering your own question here. He's not likely to reach his full potential at age 20, ergo if he's already an experienced first team standard player, his rate of improvement will be quite slow until he peaks in his mid twenties, especially if he's only a squad player. tbh it's been almost universally agreed the problem with FM17 was that newgens developed too fast... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, enigmatic said: I mean, you're basically answering your own question here. He's not likely to reach his full potential at age 20, ergo if he's already an experienced first team standard player, his rate of improvement will be quite slow until he peaks in his mid twenties, especially if he's only a squad player. tbh it's been almost universally agreed the problem with FM17 was that newgens developed too fast... But he is not a newgen. I don't know, it is still strange for me. I have no idea how could young, full 5 stars potential defender have tackling 12.0 and marking 12.0 for one full year. I think he is playing for the first national team also. Never seen this in any of the FM versions. But okay.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 31 minutes ago, Marko1989 said: But he is not a newgen. I don't know, it is still strange for me. I have no idea how could young, full 5 stars potential defender have tackling 12.0 and marking 12.0 for one full year. I think he is playing for the first national team also. Never seen this in any of the FM versions. But okay.. His tackling and marking in FM2019 are 12 and 11 respectively, so I'm not sure why you think he should be developing so much faster as a squad player in game than IRL... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 42 minutes ago, enigmatic said: His tackling and marking in FM2019 are 12 and 11 respectively, so I'm not sure why you think he should be developing so much faster as a squad player in game than IRL... Ofcourse they are the same in FM2019 because SI sometimes does not change any of the attributes at all, for high number of players. If for example buy Jesus Vallejo in Football Manager 2015, and you play him, until 2019 he will have marking 17-18. But in the FM2019 he will not have marking that high. That what you wrote does not make any sense at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Just now, Marko1989 said: Ofcourse they are the same in FM2019 because SI sometimes does not change any of the attributes at all, for high number of players. If for example buy Jesus Vallejo in Football Manager 2015, and you play him, until 2019 he will have marking 17-18. But in the FM2019 he will not have marking that high. That what you wrote does not make any sense at all. Researchers don't upgrade exciting players over a two year period if they don't think players have got any better over a two year period. Bazoer evidently didn't You are claiming the game should be coded so someone like Bazoer should always improve over a comparatively short time, even when they are already fully grown, very good for their age and actually playing less football than before. Evidently when compared with the reality of Bazoer not improving over a longer period IRL, this is absurd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, enigmatic said: Researchers don't upgrade exciting players over a two year period if they don't think players have got any better over a two year period. Bazoer evidently didn't You are claiming the game should be coded so someone like Bazoer should always improve over a comparatively short time, even when they are already fully grown, very good for their age and actually playing less football than before. Evidently when compared with the reality of Bazoer not improving over a longer period IRL, this is absurd. I think you don't understand what am I trying to say. It is not just about Bazoer, it is about multiple high rated talents, not a single attribute has changed over the year, but nevermind.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Player development in FM17 is a combination of many factors. The player himself should have good Determination, Professionalism and Ambition. The lower you go in these attributes, his development can be hindered. In the Bazoer example, he has good Ambition (his "Ambitious" personality shows that) but his Determination is only 10 and I suspect his Professionalism is also low(ish). Get him tutored if possible to help this. Long term injuries will also stunt player growth. Over the age of 18 playing in matches at an appropriate level is very important for player development, so make sure you give these players plenty of match time. Other factors in player development are such areas as training facilities, coaching staff quality and their workload. As Wolfsburg you probably have (?) decent enough training facilities but could perhaps be improved. Talk to your Board to get cracking there. Bring in decent coaches. Decent coaches will have high attributes in Determination, Discipline and Motivation as well as their respective coaching areas. Squad managers and their assistants can also be used as coaches if you are struggling for staff numbers. At a top league team I'd be looking for at least 4* coaches in every category. Once you have the coaches sorted, you can manage their workloads (if needed) by bringing in one additional cheap, crappy coach and have him allocated to every category which has a high workload. (That's a fudge but it works btw). One other thing to bear in mind - different players develop at different rates. Some will be late developers. Others might peak early. Some might go through peaks and troughs. Others may be more linear. All you can do is manage the things under your control to give your players as much chance as possible to develop, which I've mentioned above. And of course if the player is already close to or at his maximum potential for development, it doesn't matter what you do - he can't develop any further than his maximum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
enigmatic Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 55 minutes ago, Marko1989 said: I think you don't understand what am I trying to say. It is not just about Bazoer, it is about multiple high rated talents, not a single attribute has changed over the year, but nevermind.. But it clearly is about Bazoer, because his minimal improvement from a high base over a short period whilst adjusting to a change of club and reduction in playing time is the only example you've cited with any detail. And as since proven, an example where your FM17 game happened to get his progress (or lack thereof) spot on. Footballers in general improve extremely well in FM17. Hell, I've had players go from fresh newgen that can't make a second tier Bulgarian starting lineup to world class in two and a bit seasons (all in a low quality league). And I've managed international U21 sides and seen some players with apparently world class potential get there and others stagnate. But all footballers - even extremely talented ones - do not invariably improve consistently every year and your expectation that they should is what's wrong here. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 If I had time, I would create the same save game in 4 FM versions. In all of them I would set Bazoer to same attributes, same PA/CA, and everything. In fm2015, 2016, 2018 at least one attribute would change at the end of the season, in 2017 not a single one. That is my point. I can't explain it better because English is not my first language. I can't argue anymore anymore, it is a waste of time, you clearly can't understand what am I trying to say. Even I have told multiple times that it is not only about Bazoer you are telling me that it is, it is probably my fault because you can't understand, but please, don't reply to my topic anymore, I will wait for somebody else Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marko1989 Posted November 15, 2018 Author Share Posted November 15, 2018 2 hours ago, herne79 said: Thank you for your post, but I know everything what you told, this part is interesting to me "Player development in FM17 is a combination of many factors." Does this mean that player devlopment in FM17 is diferent than in other versions? I know ofcourse that in all FM's it is combination of many factors, I'm just trying to figure out why is my development so slow in this particular FM version Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
herne79 Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 3 hours ago, Marko1989 said: Does this mean that player devlopment in FM17 is diferent than in other versions? No, I was just making reference to your opening post and my mention of tutoring which has now changed for FM19. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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