General question: How do takeovers work?

[alanfishead]

I've started 3 different saves so far in FM 19 and I'm just wondering how takeovers are configured?

 

In all three saves my beloved Newcastle side have been bought by a consortium fronted by Theodoros Zagorakis. In FM18 it was similar and whether I was in charge or not, they'd always get taken over by Andy Ambler.

 

Any ideas?

[santy001]

As researchers we set whether a chairman is looking to sell up or not (all owners reach this point over time). So Mike Ashley having said he's looking to sell will always be looking for someone to take over from him. 

In FM unlike real life clubs cannot go ownerless for a prolonged period, or end up in the situations clubs can find themselves in where an owner cannot sell the club but has absolutely no interest in it whatsoever beyond keeping it ticking over. So in situations like this you will see takeovers happen and depending on the database options and such its possible that there may be a small amount of potential owners and whatever information is set for for Zagorakis in the database means he is the most likely one to pull the funding and people together to takeover Newcastle. 

If you've got concerns about it, I'd always suggest logging a bug report with a save when its announced he's interested in the club, perhaps SI can find if there's something amiss there. 

[LukasZ_VCF]

13 hours ago, santy001 said:

As researchers we set whether a chairman is looking to sell up or not (all owners reach this point over time). So Mike Ashley having said he's looking to sell will always be looking for someone to take over from him. 

In FM unlike real life clubs cannot go ownerless for a prolonged period, or end up in the situations clubs can find themselves in where an owner cannot sell the club but has absolutely no interest in it whatsoever beyond keeping it ticking over. So in situations like this you will see takeovers happen and depending on the database options and such its possible that there may be a small amount of potential owners and whatever information is set for for Zagorakis in the database means he is the most likely one to pull the funding and people together to takeover Newcastle. 

If you've got concerns about it, I'd always suggest logging a bug report with a save when its announced he's interested in the club, perhaps SI can find if there's something amiss there. 

So if someone is saying he will never leave than it will never happen ?

[santy001]

2 hours ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

So if someone is saying he will never leave than it will never happen ?

How do you mean sorry? I might have mis-wrote I meant over time all chairman will reach the point they want to leave - by virtue of old age if nothing else.

Researchers set what stage the chairman begins at, as some like Mike Ashley have openly said they're willing to sell up. 

[LukasZ_VCF]

2 minutes ago, santy001 said:

How do you mean sorry? I might have mis-wrote I meant over time all chairman will reach the point they want to leave - by virtue of old age if nothing else.

Researchers set what stage the chairman begins at, as some like Mike Ashley have openly said they're willing to sell up. 

I meant in game it says "Peter Lim will never leave the club" or something like that... he is 65/66 y.o. at start so he might leave soon?

[santy001]

I couldn't say for certain to be honest, Peter Coates rarely lasts more than a season or two at Stoke, but he is in his 80's. I think the age will obviously be more lenient for an owner but anecdotally on FM18, despite Peter Lim having that he did leave the club during my 3rd season with the club. 

Age does expedite the process though, so at 65 he's less likely to last as long as he would at 35 - which to an extent is only natural after all. 

[LukasZ_VCF]

Do u know maybe how underwritter works?

I' ve read that he will cover a loss at the end of the season but can't find any other info...

 

So if I will use my entire transfer budget, and have wages that will make debt after that then he will just add the money so the bank balance will be 0 ? or like add enough that will cover next year salary just without letting me use any transfer budget ?

[santy001]

Seb clarifies further down and I had made a mistake in how I thought it worked.

[LukasZ_VCF]

2 minutes ago, santy001 said:

It's hard to quite get it bang on with how I explain this but the underwriter covers losses as you say, but the way in which budgets are impacted are going to vary based on the chairmans hidden stats. It's always more likely after a year of heavy spending you're going to have a lower budget the following year, but depending on the chairman personality it may be well funded again next year or it may be more reserved and still just cover any losses your wage bill incurs.

The setting of budgets vs the clubs current bank balance is down to quite a few factors away from the sugar daddy markers.

Because I am thinking about 2nd save with for example Dinamo from Croatia, they have underwritter chairman and I wonder if I could "trick" the chairman :P

 

Because while I was playing now with Valencia I always sell key players at the age of 31-33 when their value start to decrease or stats...and I am always setting the option that transfer will take place after the end of the season, so I am getting the money to transfer budget right away and I can use it to buy someone but then my bank balance is on debt and the chairman always lowered the transfer budget to 15 or even 0% becuase the bank balance was so bad...so if he will cover that loss at the end of the season and I will get money at the start of the new one I will be like

[Seb Wassell]

6 hours ago, LukasZ_VCF said:

Do u know maybe how underwritter works?

I' ve read that he will cover a loss at the end of the season but can't find any other info...

 

5 hours ago, santy001 said:

It's hard to quite get it bang on with how I explain this but the underwriter covers losses as you say, but the way in which budgets are impacted are going to vary based on the chairmans hidden stats. It's always more likely after a year of heavy spending you're going to have a lower budget the following year, but depending on the chairman personality it may be well funded again next year or it may be more reserved and still just cover any losses your wage bill incurs.

The setting of budgets vs the clubs current bank balance is down to quite a few factors away from the sugar daddy markers.

Underwriter does not boost balances, he simply writes off debt.

[santy001]

23 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

 

Underwriter does not boost balances, he simply writes off debt.

My mistake! But for clarity "debt" is that simply the presence of a negative balance, because typically during a takeover debts are cleared in one form or another in game in my experience (usually as a bank loan) so that would largely render an Underwriter somewhat inert wouldn't it? I'm probably thinking of it wrong, I just have Peter Coates flagged as an underwriter at Stoke, as after discussions with the HR many moons ago it was felt that best summed up what Coates did at Stoke (covered all financial losses himself, but since FFP these of course have gone down as debt to the chairman)

[Seb Wassell]

4 minutes ago, santy001 said:

My mistake! But for clarity "debt" is that simply the presence of a negative balance, because typically during a takeover debts are cleared in one form or another in game in my experience (usually as a bank loan) so that would largely render an Underwriter somewhat inert wouldn't it? I'm probably thinking of it wrong, I just have Peter Coates flagged as an underwriter at Stoke, as after discussions with the HR many moons ago it was felt that best summed up what Coates did at Stoke (covered all financial losses himself, but since FFP these of course have gone down as debt to the chairman)

Most Premier League clubs are set to underwriter in this way to mirror how they operate in reality. He will write off any losses incurred during his tenure, not just debt assumed during a takeover. So you do have to operate within a budget, but you don't need to give much thought to the financial future. The budgets are generated via club turnover and do not come from the owner. A front-end tycoon will pump the club with cash for the immediacy, including massively inflating current and upcoming budgets from outside of the club's means (his own). The back-end performs the exact same role as a front-end until the club reaches the top tier, then he becomes an underwriter. Under-writer expects return acts in the same way as an underwriter but he expects (and intends to collect) a positive return on his investment.

[GerdMuller]

When a new board took over Everton here i think the owners loan was converted into a "normal" bank loan. It depressing though, as the loan doesnt represent my current financial situation. I pay back the loan over 20 years or something, while having 300 Million in the bank. I was so hoping for the new board to invest it in the Stadium at least, but despite the stadium being over 90 percent full all the time the board old and new thinks: I have too few fans. OK but ist full all the time damnit :-D Thats where i wish my good ole german Football Manager games back, where i could actually have control of that stuff. I know Miles hates it and i have to play his game :-) But trust me i will never want to do what a real Football Manager nowadays really does and doesnt, ist a game after all :-D

[LukasZ_VCF]

58 minutes ago, Seb Wassell said:

 

Underwriter does not boost balances, he simply writes off debt.

But I still don't understand ;P

 

for example my bank balance at the last day of the season is      (-100.000.000) there is no red color here so with " - "  so he will just add 100.000.000 so at the start of next season it is 0 ?

[alanfishead]

On 23/01/2019 at 18:14, santy001 said:

As researchers we set whether a chairman is looking to sell up or not (all owners reach this point over time). So Mike Ashley having said he's looking to sell will always be looking for someone to take over from him. 

In FM unlike real life clubs cannot go ownerless for a prolonged period, or end up in the situations clubs can find themselves in where an owner cannot sell the club but has absolutely no interest in it whatsoever beyond keeping it ticking over. So in situations like this you will see takeovers happen and depending on the database options and such its possible that there may be a small amount of potential owners and whatever information is set for for Zagorakis in the database means he is the most likely one to pull the funding and people together to takeover Newcastle. 

If you've got concerns about it, I'd always suggest logging a bug report with a save when its announced he's interested in the club, perhaps SI can find if there's something amiss there. 

Thanks @santy001. Been away for a few days and just seen your response. I actually started a new save to test and it happened twice in the first season. Zagorakis both times and both times it fell through as they couldn't provide sufficient funds to complete the deal. End of 18/19 season and still under Ashley.

 

That's three separate saves now and twice in one of them. I may report as a bug as I'm not sure this should be the case. 

[LukasZ_VCF]

On 24/01/2019 at 18:50, LukasZ_VCF said:

But I still don't understand ;P

 

for example my bank balance at the last day of the season is      (-100.000.000) there is no red color here so with " - "  so he will just add 100.000.000 so at the start of next season it is 0 ?

ANYONE?