Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[tomescan]

Ah, well I am not using Excel. I am on a Mac and I use Numbers as my spreadsheet application - and there is no option to change.

Here's the 3 templates for Rule of One theory. Intellectual property of both wwfan and millie (hope it's ok if I can put them up guys).

Defensive

Standard

Attacking

Hope that's ok.

[Nick Toye]

that's excellent. Thanks.

[John Swarbrick]

Those templates are a little flawed, as Millie as already told me. Be careful, I think it's better to just follow the templates for the team instructions, and try to do the individual instructions yourself.

[Nick Toye]

Why are they flawed?

[pauly1616]

So let me get this straight:

Your theory is that Mentality decides the player's line on the pitch?

For example:

........................GK..............................

1

5

10 DC (On 10 mentality: distance from gk/dmc decided by mentality)

15

20

1 DMC (DMC on 1 ment. Very close to DC further from MC)

5

10

15

20 MC (20)

1 (AMC 1)

5

15

20

1 St (1)

5

10

15

20

[RobinGoodey]

So let me get this straight:

Your theory is that Mentality decides the player's line on the pitch?

For example:

........................GK..............................

1

5

10 DC (On 10 mentality: distance from gk/dmc decided by mentality)

15

20

1 DMC (DMC on 1 ment. Very close to DC further from MC)

5

10

15

20 MC (20)

1 (AMC 1)

5

15

20

1 St (1)

5

10

15

20

Correct - but you may find that for example, a 20 mentality MC is actually further up the pitch than a 1 mentality AMC - depends on the players - they have a mind of their own don't you know

[Siddo]

Doing ok with Chester City (1st season 10 games in) and just got a couple of questions.

1, I've got a forward (Drew Broughton) and he is constantly being accused of misplacing passes. His passing is 9 and i've got him setup to Short (last notch) so hopefully he keeps it nice and simple. Also i've turned Try Through Balls to 'Rare' and that seems to have had no effect.

2, My Asst is also moaning about the whole team losing possession. Now im playing my defenders on high direct, midfielders on high mixed, and forwards on high short. I'm doing this because the team isn't as good and also they are only just beginning to gell. Also most of the team is on low creative freedom (3 notches from left) as they are still gelling except for the FCa and ML/R which are on normal (1st notch of)

Again any idea's about changing the above as i feel this what's contributing to poor ratings and definitely costing me goals (Not match engine errors as some might say).

Finally regards closing down should i be following these guidelines?

GK Mentality = 4 (Defensive) Closing Down = 5 (Own Area)

DC Mentality = 5 (Defensive) Closing Down = 5 (Own Area)

And then grade up from there depending on squad/attributes/etc

or should it be?

GK Mentality = 4 (Defensive) Closing Down = 4 (Own Area)

DC Mentality = 5 (Defensive) Closing Down = 4 (Own Area)

thanks for you feedback in advance

[NepentheZ]

EDIT : Wrong thread, sorry.

[Garate]

Doing ok with Chester City (1st season 10 games in) and just got a couple of questions.

1, I've got a forward (Drew Broughton) and he is constantly being accused of misplacing passes. His passing is 9 and i've got him setup to Short (last notch) so hopefully he keeps it nice and simple. Also i've turned Try Through Balls to 'Rare' and that seems to have had no effect.

2, My Asst is also moaning about the whole team losing possession. Now im playing my defenders on high direct, midfielders on high mixed, and forwards on high short. I'm doing this because the team isn't as good and also they are only just beginning to gell. Also most of the team is on low creative freedom (3 notches from left) as they are still gelling except for the FCa and ML/R which are on normal (1st notch of)

Again any idea's about changing the above as i feel this what's contributing to poor ratings and definitely costing me goals (Not match engine errors as some might say).

thanks for you feedback in advance

If you want to have more possession, I think you should reverse the passing instructions, having your defenders on high short, midfielders mixed and forwards direct. Your forward may be misplacing passes because he doesn't have good passing options since he is instructed to pass short. Also, you may want to lower tempo, it may help.

[pauly1616]

Correct - but you may find that for example, a 20 mentality MC is actually further up the pitch than a 1 mentality AMC - depends on the players - they have a mind of their own don't you know

God, that is counter-intuitive.

So what if you have a High defensive line, with an offside trap but play 1/20 defensive mentality?

How about a deep defensive line with 20/20 attacking mentality CB's. Why on earth would they use the word "mentality" - they really couldn't have picked a more confusing word if it is what you're claiming... Personally, when selecting an attacking or defensive mentality... i'd just like it to deliver my instruction to the player of how much they should focus on defense and how much on attack... Trezeguet- 0 defense, Mexes, 0 attack. Jesus...

overhaul SI.

[RobinGoodey]

God, that is counter-intuitive.

So what if you have a High defensive line, with an offside trap but play 1/20 defensive mentality?

How about a deep defensive line with 20/20 attacking mentality CB's. Why on earth would they use the word "mentality" - they really couldn't have picked a more confusing word if it is what you're claiming... Personally, when selecting an attacking or defensive mentality... i'd just like it to deliver my instruction to the player of how much they should focus on defense and how much on attack... Trezeguet- 0 defense, Mexes, 0 attack. Jesus...

overhaul SI.

Surely the two combinations of mentality and D-Line that you have suggested are totally counter intuitive?

eg in your first example, what you are saying to your players is: I want you to play offsides high up the pitch (which is all fine so far), but I don't want you ever to GO high up the pitch (mentality 1)

In the 2nd one - defend really deep (low D-Line) but I want you to push forward at every opportunity to support the attack (mentality 20).

See how they don't make sense?

Which is why TT+F suggests that D-Line is linked to the mentality of your DM (or MCd) usually - and given that he is (usually) within a couple of notches of the DC's mentality - it follows that D-Line and defensive players mentality should be similar. So totally logical.

As for your sugggestion of how much you want them to attack / defend - that's already there - it's a combination of player mentality and forward runs - high mentality and high runs = attack a lot, low ment and no forward runs = defend a lot.

[Siddo]

Still struggling with the mighty Chester City. Playing the same side and my squad is currently 'blending together well' according to my Asst Manager.

Most using the defense and standard strategies at the moment as the squad is poor and also still gelling. I've got the following settings:

Narrow width (5 notches from the left on the slider)

Creative Freedom is Low for all players (3 - Due to being a new manager, ungelled squad etc)

Focus Passing is Mixed

Tempo is Normal (12 - Due to my sides poor passing stats)

Passing is Direct (16) for defensive roles, Mixed (12) for support roles, Mixed (8) for attack

Also using the basic settings for Defend, Support, Attack Roles

Anyone help got any better ideas for settings for my team.

[leedsfan88]

For match strategries will it work with part time players or is it just best to keep it simply?

[crouchaldinho]

I'd be grateful for any help in getting the most out of one of my most talented players.

I'm playing a basic 4-4-2 formation and finding that my side score few goals. I feel the main problem is my MCa, who nearly always receives low ratings despite being of my very best players. His overall contribution is a bit disappointing too.

I have noticed that the MCa is not really getting involved in attacking areas enough despite having a high mentality and being set to operate in a free role with considerable creative freedom.

I have the MCa currently set to a support role but I am now thinking of setting him to an attacking role, i.e. forward runs often. This, I hope, would see him getting into more advanced positions, providing more assists and hopefully chipping in with some goals too (all of which have been lacking this season).

My main question is, will this unbalance my tactic defensively? I am mainly using a standard framework and this would result in a setup of 3 defensive, 3 support and 4 attack.

Any advice on how to get the best out of this player would be appreciated. At present, I am disappointed with his input and, particularly, with the low amount of assists.

[tibasta]

hello to everyone,

can anyone explain me? found that incentive to make new tactics at the end if the game does not allow your striker to score when in a one vs one against the goalkeeper?

until SI fix this problem no longer play ....

[Shiraz]

I have a question, I am playing as Man Utd and last season Rooney and Tevez were lethal scoring a comined total of 65 goals between them. This season though they are struggling to score and have scored a meagre 5 goals between them. Rooney 10(1) and Tevez 12(2). The only changes I have made to my tactic are:

1. Changing the wingers RWB to mixed from often

2. Changing the Full-Backs FWR to mixed from often.

Could someone please assist me with this?

Oh and neither of them are on or have been on a goal drought for the last 5 games.

Nevermind, they have scored 5 goals in the last 4 games between them.

[phillyboy16]

I'd be grateful for any help in getting the most out of one of my most talented players.

I'm playing a basic 4-4-2 formation and finding that my side score few goals. I feel the main problem is my MCa, who nearly always receives low ratings despite being of my very best players. His overall contribution is a bit disappointing too.

I have noticed that the MCa is not really getting involved in attacking areas enough despite having a high mentality and being set to operate in a free role with considerable creative freedom.

I have the MCa currently set to a support role but I am now thinking of setting him to an attacking role, i.e. forward runs often. This, I hope, would see him getting into more advanced positions, providing more assists and hopefully chipping in with some goals too (all of which have been lacking this season).

My main question is, will this unbalance my tactic defensively? I am mainly using a standard framework and this would result in a setup of 3 defensive, 3 support and 4 attack.

Any advice on how to get the best out of this player would be appreciated. At present, I am disappointed with his input and, particularly, with the low amount of assists.

I was having the same problem with my 4231 formation in that my middle attacking midfielder who was sergio aguero was getting bad ratings even though I had him on free role and high creative freedom. I didn't really tinker with his instructions at all though because I thought i had the best ones and eventually he just got over the run of bad form and started playing really well. Maybe the player just needs to get used to having a free role in the system. But I think adding FWR often would help a lot especially if you're other midfielder is a good DM. The setup of 3 defend 3 support 4 attack is only slightly attacking so you shouldn't have too many problems defensively. I know this post probably wasn't much help but I had the same problem so I thought I would reply.

[crouchaldinho]

I was having the same problem with my 4231 formation in that my middle attacking midfielder who was sergio aguero was getting bad ratings even though I had him on free role and high creative freedom. I didn't really tinker with his instructions at all though because I thought i had the best ones and eventually he just got over the run of bad form and started playing really well. Maybe the player just needs to get used to having a free role in the system. But I think adding FWR often would help a lot especially if you're other midfielder is a good DM. The setup of 3 defend 3 support 4 attack is only slightly attacking so you shouldn't have too many problems defensively. I know this post probably wasn't much help but I had the same problem so I thought I would reply.

Thank you for this reply phillyboy. It has certainly helped.

I have been experimenting and I have found that putting FWR often for my MCa has really improved my standard and attacking tactics, and especially my MCa and his contribution. It seems that he now plays his game in a more advanced position behind the forwards and contributes better passes. He also gets into the box on occasion and has scored a few goals. Before this he was mainly shooting from distance and wasn't providing killer passes for my forwards. As you suggested, my other midfielder is a good and solid DM and he is covering well for my more attacking midfielder. Both of their ratings have improved (from low 6s to 7s minimum) and my tactic, with more options in the final third, has gone from strength to strength, with more goals scored without losing any defensive stability.

One thing I did change was to remove the MCa free role in the standard formation, as I felt he was wandering too often and it seemed that my possession in the middle of the park was suffering. Perhaps this is too much of a luxury for a lower league side like mine. For my defensive tactics, I have left my MCa on mixed runs as I want him to take up more defensive duties and shoot from distance more often. For my attacking tactics, I have FWR often and have kept him in a free role. I now see him showing up everywhere and appearing at centre-stage. I think one key thing is that my MCa has the work rate, stamina, sense of positioning and pace to make make forward runs without neglecting his defensive duties. He is still tracking back (not so much with the free role in my attacking version).

Anyway this certainly seems to have worked for my MCa and, most importantly, improved the team's performance as a whole.

[wayne'o]

What do you guys recomend for the following.

im newly promoted to the prem, playing defensive invites preasure and i lose, play keep ball, direct, counter attack, football and i get 55% of possesion and get thrashed..

really need soem help here. iv read all the help files and cant come up with any thing.

[crouchaldinho]

Wayne'o - how are sides playing against you and what are the odds like?

I'd play a standard tactic against most teams unless they are attacking you heavily (then use defensive tactic instead, obviously).

If you are in a run of losses try using the media to take the pressure off your players. 'Wish luck' or even 'no pressure' might help halt the poor run of form.

The other thing is what is your team gelling like at present? This may be having a huge effect on your performances.

Hope some of this helps.

[wayne'o]

Havnt got my game loaded at the moment, think i can remember..

The squad is gelling well according to my assistant, on match day the assistant do single 2or 3 players out saying they are not blending well at the moment..

As for odds. im favorutes to get thrashed every game.. tactic wise i dont seem to be able to do the right thing, if i push on they beat my high D-Line and score. if i use a low D-Line they still find space to score.. it's very frustrating..

P.S i have just realised that my coach that i use for fitness training is not a fitness coach, i didn't have the following remark in the championshop but all my players are saying "Unhappy with lack of fitness coach" Now i guess fitness could be effected but surly this wont effect my resutls becasue my players are lasting 90 min's fitness wise..

[crouchaldinho]

Havnt got my game loaded at the moment' date=' think i can remember..

The squad is gelling well according to my assistant, on match day the assistant do single 2or 3 players out saying they are not blending well at the moment..

[/quote']

That's a low rating of squad gelling suggesting that you have probably brought in a number of new players. Maybe try playing a few of your older more settled players, even if they have inferior ability. The only thing to do with team gelling is to be patient and to try and stick with the same team without changing things too much. Eventually, they will begin to get a good understanding and performances will improve. That's my experience anyway.

As for odds. im favorutes to get thrashed every game.. tactic wise i dont seem to be able to do the right thing, if i push on they beat my high D-Line and score. if i use a low D-Line they still find space to score.. it's very frustrating..

If confidence and team gelling is low, as well as you being at long odds, then certainly avoid 'attack'.

I would suggest starting games (especially home ones) with a standard/balanced tactic and seeing how you progress from there.

It sounds to me that you are playing too defensively and sitting too deep against opposition who are playing balanced and possession-based football. They are probably have lots of possession in your half without enough pressure. Playing 'standard' is the best option here to reduce space and keep the ball. That's what I think, anyway.

P.S i have just realised that my coach that i use for fitness training is not a fitness coach, i didn't have the following remark in the championshop but all my players are saying "Unhappy with lack of fitness coach" Now i guess fitness could be effected but surly this wont effect my resutls becasue my players are lasting 90 min's fitness wise..

I don't know about this fitness coach business. It might be having an effect on morale but I wouldn't have thought it was hugely significant.

My suggestion is that you keep tactics simple, i.e. balanced, and see how your side perform during each match. If the opposition are really pushing forward (high number of passes forward, full-backs pushing up, quick tempo) then you can think about going defensive. I would also suggest using the media to increase player morale. Finally, concentrate on reducing pressure on your players in team talks. If you are going through a major crisis then try 'no pressure'. Generally, I would imagine 'wish luck' is the best option otherwise. Encourage your players ('have faith' is good for this) and try not to be too harsh. Hopefully you will be able to see this poor form out and finally get back to winning ways.

Just lately I have had a poor run of form due to low team gelling (same as yours, 'team is blending well') and low morale. I kept calm, kept faith in my tactics, praised/criticised players in the press and used encouraging team talks. After 7 games without a win, I've finally won 2 in a row against very good opposition. I normally find that getting a solid home win can turn your fortunes around. If you're not winning at home, you often have no chance away. However, get a good win at home under your belt and those aways can become draws or even wins. It'll come good eventually with some patience.

Good luck!

[wayne'o]

That's a low rating of squad gelling suggesting that you have probably brought in a number of new players. Maybe try playing a few of your older more settled players, even if they have inferior ability. The only thing to do with team gelling is to be patient and to try and stick with the same team without changing things too much. Eventually, they will begin to get a good understanding and performances will improve. That's my experience anyway.

If confidence and team gelling is low, as well as you being at long odds, then certainly avoid 'attack'.

I would suggest starting games (especially home ones) with a standard/balanced tactic and seeing how you progress from there.

It sounds to me that you are playing too defensively and sitting too deep against opposition who are playing balanced and possession-based football. They are probably have lots of possession in your half without enough pressure. Playing 'standard' is the best option here to reduce space and keep the ball. That's what I think, anyway.

I don't know about this fitness coach business. It might be having an effect on morale but I wouldn't have thought it was hugely significant.

My suggestion is that you keep tactics simple, i.e. balanced, and see how your side perform during each match. If the opposition are really pushing forward (high number of passes forward, full-backs pushing up, quick tempo) then you can think about going defensive. I would also suggest using the media to increase player morale. Finally, concentrate on reducing pressure on your players in team talks. If you are going through a major crisis then try 'no pressure'. Generally, I would imagine 'wish luck' is the best option otherwise. Encourage your players ('have faith' is good for this) and try not to be too harsh. Hopefully you will be able to see this poor form out and finally get back to winning ways.

Just lately I have had a poor run of form due to low team gelling (same as yours, 'team is blending well') and low morale. I kept calm, kept faith in my tactics, praised/criticised players in the press and used encouraging team talks. After 7 games without a win, I've finally won 2 in a row against very good opposition. I normally find that getting a solid home win can turn your fortunes around. If you're not winning at home, you often have no chance away. However, get a good win at home under your belt and those aways can become draws or even wins. It'll come good eventually with some patience.

Good luck!

thanks for that. i will give it a go, my only win was an away game but i have to home draws to reflect on lol..

[Nick Toye]

I printed this document (the pdf) and it prints with strange letters and characters. Is that supposed to happen?

I like to have reading material that I can refer to whilst playing the game and not having to switch between screens.

[wayne'o]

This really aint working. i'm going 2-0 down every game inside 5 mins.

One game i scored and went ahead on 92 mins playing defensive. and they scored 20 secs later, all rebounds fall straight to the AI teams strikers, my players just stand there with the ball doing nothing, i have 3 players challenge a player in my area during a corner, and still they get a shot off in the bottom corner, what do tactics have to do with kickng a ball away for a clearence..

I'm more down than the players, i keep losing but morale is high..

[crouchaldinho]

This really aint working. i'm going 2-0 down every game inside 5 mins.

One game i scored and went ahead on 92 mins playing defensive. and they scored 20 secs later' date=' all rebounds fall straight to the AI teams strikers, my players just stand there with the ball doing nothing, i have 3 players challenge a player in my area during a corner, and still they get a shot off in the bottom corner, what do tactics have to do with kickng a ball away for a clearence..

I'm more down than the players, i keep losing but morale is high..[/quote']

Wayne'o - sorry to hear that your troubles haven't gone away.

What tactic are you playing when going 2-0 down straight-away? Is it mostly at home or away? Against what teams? What is your possession like and what about the chances created?

What is the quality of your side like? Are they of decent quality or well below the division standard?

It's hard to tell what is going on but it seems that you might have a tactical deficiency if you are losing games so easily all of the time.

Have you had success previously with the same tactics? Have you changed anything since? Suggest you check fundamentals like forward runs and closing down.

[wayne'o]

I do think some where there is a flaw in my tactic, what i have just done is started from fresh with a new template and created a defensive formation that has stabilty going forward...

I signed James Brown from Hartlepool in Jan so thats the quality of my players lol!!... he has bagged 6 goals in 9 apperances and plays like a breath of fresh air compared to my other forwards..

My captain was Kelvin Wilson, he isnt happy but i changed him with Bogdon Lobont.. i won my 1st game 4-0 at home to Blackburn who are 10th in table..

[Nick Toye]

Anyone know about this pdf thing?

[crouchaldinho]

Nick, I'm not sure what is going on with your printer. Sounds strange to me.

The only suggestion I have is to copy and paste the text into Word, then change the formatting and try to print again.

[crouchaldinho]

I do think some where there is a flaw in my tactic' date=' what i have just done is started from fresh with a new template and created a defensive formation that has stabilty going forward...

I signed James Brown from Hartlepool in Jan so thats the quality of my players lol!!... he has bagged 6 goals in 9 apperances and plays like a breath of fresh air compared to my other forwards..

My captain was Kelvin Wilson, he isnt happy but i changed him with Bogdon Lobont.. i won my 1st game 4-0 at home to Blackburn who are 10th in table..[/quote']

Sounds like you might have turned it around then!

It's always a good idea to simplify your tactics when things aren't going well. I remember in FM07 having an awful time with my team after a lot of success with my tactical set in previous seasons. It got so bad that I was almost relegated for the first time in my career.

The next season, I started from scratch, both tactically and in terms of my training. I kept it as simple as possible. With pretty much the same squad, I achieved a playoff place and almost got promoted the following season. Just goes to show that sometimes you can over-complicate tactics. Sometimes keeping things simple really is the best way.

Good luck.

[stevie_boy]

Hi. Ive read this over and over but having major problems with FM 09. I could comfortably play FM08 with roughly the same instructions which confuses me. Here are my instructions, hopefully someone can shed some light for me

(CD) (CF) (FWRs) (RWB) (Cross B) (Through B) (Long S)

GK- 6 5 Rarely " " " "

FB- 9 9 Mixed " " " "

CB- 7 5 Rarely " " " "

MCd- 9 8 Rarely " Mixed Rarely Mixed

Mca- 12 13 Often Mixed Mixed Often Mixed

ML/MR-12 13 Often Mixed " " "

FCs- 14 11 Mixed " " " "

The Mentalities and Passing are set to normal. If theres any hints on opposition instructions that would be a great help too.

[Popey 1981]

Good Morning all

This is my first time reading this forum, which is very, very useful.

For clarification and to make sure I am not being completely stupid, when you are refering to the numbers, for example mentality, am I right in thinking that the slider is automatically set at 10 and therefore an 8 would need the slider knocking down 2 notches.

Many thanks

[Toffeedane]

correct if when you say down mean left

[Popey 1981]

correct if when you say down mean left

Yes, that is what I meant. Thank you for the clarification.

I am currently Man City in my first season and not having the best of times in the league. My European and Cup runs are going really well which is a complete opposite to my league form.

Hopefully after some studying of theses forums and guides I can remedy my league form.

Cheers

[saab693]

Hi gents

I'm currently doing Gundo's challenge so am playing with fairly untalented players! What would you recommend to get the best out of them? ie which mentality framework, which tactic to use most often out of standard, attack etc

Thanks

[Finknottle]

Here's the 3 templates for Rule of One theory. Intellectual property of both wwfan and millie (hope it's ok if I can put them up guys).

Defensive

Standard

Attacking

Hope that's ok.

Can you tell me where and how to get those tactics graphics, please?

[RobinGoodey]

Can you tell me where and how to get those tactics graphics, please?

They are copied and pasted from the Excel sheet in the TT+F download - look in the documents folder of the download, they will be there alongside the actual document.

[Finknottle]

They are copied and pasted from the Excel sheet in the TT+F download - look in the documents folder of the download, they will be there alongside the actual document.

I've managed to find them and alter the tactics within the attack,defend and standard modes. Can you explain how to transfer, for example, the 4-1-3-2 set from the documents folder to the Excel, or in my case, Open Office, sheet. I am brain dead in these matters but I make a good cup of coffee? Kind regards.

[Siddo]

Anyone got any recommend settings for League Two. I know i'm suppose to play longer passing but should i tailor this more for the whole team or just length the passing?

Also could my poor possession and passing be down to the squad still gelling and getting use to my tactics? I'm into November and the passing is now the main problem.

[Nick Toye]

Can I ask are the no needs for the arrows here? I think I read that, but I'm reading other tactical guides that use them.

What are the benefits for and against?

[Cleon]

Can I ask are the no needs for the arrows here? I think I read that, but I'm reading other tactical guides that use them.

What are the benefits for and against?

The arrows just represent forward runs, no arrow = mixed, back arrow = rarely and forward arrow = often.

[Nick Toye]

Yeah I know, I was just wondering if it was advisable to put forward runs using the sliders, or with the arrows?

[Cleon]

Yeah I know, I was just wondering if it was advisable to put forward runs using the sliders, or with the arrows?

Both do the exact same

[Nick Toye]

Ok fair enough. Obviously if I have Player A on forward runs often, but then put his arrow going backwards he will just become confused.

[Cleon]

Ok fair enough. Obviously if I have Player A on forward runs often, but then put his arrow going backwards he will just become confused.

No as it would automatically change his slider. So if you put a forward arrow on him then checked his slider, you'd see it would have changed to often.

[Nick Toye]

Ah I see. The slider is the slave to the arrows too it seems.

[Cleon]

Ah I see. The slider is the slave to the arrows too it seems.

And if you change the slider then the arrows would appear/dissapear

[Nick Toye]

Nice. Getting used to all this slider arrow relation now.

[fcbarcelona]

question for WWFAN, when can we expect to see the tactic generator?

[Nick Toye]

how is it possible to to with Rule of One and a strike partnership that required 2 notch gap between each striker?