Tactical Theorems and Frameworks '09

[PhroX]

thank you PhroX,

Is RoO system more appropriate for a lower-medium Quality team???

Generally, yes. Systems like RoO, or BoT give players more defined instructions, while Role Theory, 5x5 or Global give players more freedom and rely on them making the correct decisions. The better the player, generally, the better they are at making decisions on the pitch.

[spontaneus]

maybe I should lower the CF's values?

Do CF's values change in relation to the system?

Thanks

[ianmforbes]

I've got a question:

First of all, let me say that the TT&F is a stroke of genius. I printed it out and put it in a binder with dividers and everything. It's marvelous.

Q: What system would you say Barcelona uses IRL? 2-6-2?

I ask because I'm trying to get the best out of a AMR/L as my playmaker. Would he have FCd instructions?

Thanks for any help.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Cheers wwfan + co, your guide has set my St Etienne on the way to posible Champs League qualification - a dream come true! I would love to see someone take the guide and around it build a "Brian Clough" tactic & management style. I cannnot get my head around how that would work - too many contradictions, just like the great man himself.

[spontaneus]

a "tempo" question.

In TT&F '09 you suggested to use a mixed choice for passing system.

So in my attaccking Frameworks I have short for def roles, mixed for support and direct for attack ones.

In some posts and "a in-game suggestion" i read about a link between tempo and passing.

My question is: In a attaccking framework have i to link tempo with passing settings of def, support or att roles????

THANKS

[Miksu]

I have a question about the hold up the ball -instruction. It seems that TT&F '09 recommends to use hold up the ball -instruction for both DMC and FCd. Doesn't that kind of break the "flow" of the game if two players are recommended to hold the ball? For example in a defensive strategy where it's important to start the quick counter attack, wouldn't the DMC which is holding the ball slow things too much?

Could it work better if in (I know later tonight when I can actually test it ) defensive tactic only FCd is instructed to hold the ball and in attacking formation DMC is the one who calms things down and starts the attack?

[ianmforbes]

I have a question about the hold up the ball -instruction. It seems that TT&F '09 recommends to use hold up the ball -instruction for both DMC and FCd. Doesn't that kind of break the "flow" of the game if two players are recommended to hold the ball? For example in a defensive strategy where it's important to start the quick counter attack, wouldn't the DMC which is holding the ball slow things too much?

Could it work better if in (I know later tonight when I can actually test it ) defensive tactic only FCd is instructed to hold the ball and in attacking formation DMC is the one who calms things down and starts the attack?

I took this instruction away from my DMC for the same reason. I found that he would always play the ball back to defence instead of upfield towards the MCa or even the full backs. Now, he's still cautious in his passing, but he at least looks for forward options.

[PrinceEgypt]

Very stupid question coming right up - but i just cant get my head around it...lol

Choosing a framework based on Global Mentalities :

Global Mentality Average

Defend: 4-5

Counter: 8-9

Balanced: 12-13

Attack: 16-17

I just cant understand this - can someone explain a little more. I know what the Rule of One is in terms of how many notches on the slider and so on....

....but does the above mean that if i am playing a DEFEND mentality, then i should start my defenders off on the 4th notch and grade up from there? .....and if i am using an ATTACK mentality start my defenders off at 16 notches?

Please help.

Thanks

[shakeable]

Global means everyone is on the same mentality. Thus a defend strategy you will move the team mentality slider to 4 or 5.

[PrinceEgypt]

Global means everyone is on the same mentality. Thus a defend strategy you will move the team mentality slider to 4 or 5.

Oh i see! So its the team mentality that is on 16/17 for ATTACKING mentality - not individual players? Is that about right?

[shakeable]

Oh i see! So its the team mentality that is on 16/17 for ATTACKING mentality - not individual players? Is that about right?

Yes.

Just remember to untick all of your players individual mentality settings since individual settings override team settings.

[PrinceEgypt]

Yes.

Just remember to untick all of your players individual mentality settings since individual settings override team settings.

Nice one mate - Will do just that - Thank you.

[heathxxx]

It's funny really because even though I have individual passing instructions for all my players, when I make global team changes, I don't untick individual passing settings and still notice a big difference in play each time.

I used to believe that individual settings would always override global settings, but now I'm not so sure.

[vasilli07]

Why should a shut-up tactic focus their passing down the middle? I mean shouldn't it be down the flanks since the AI is likely to go 4-2-4.

[heathxxx]

Why should a shut-up tactic focus their passing down the middle? I mean shouldn't it be down the flanks since the AI is likely to go 4-2-4.

Arguably that's where the biggest opposition danger is coming from with an AI 4-2-4, from the flanks. That's probably why the TT&F theory is based on passing through the middle, because when playing "shut-up-shop" or "park-the-bus", your settings are usually narrower and therefore your players will be more central.

[Flek]

I rather disagre with that... I don't think that setting it to "the middle" will have something to do with the width of your team. I think that setting it to "the middle", you will see your through balls, during "defense-attack transition", placed upon the FC(s) and they will then be in charge of the last ball.

First, let me just give a brief introduction. In every tactic there are always 3 lines: defensive, transition( or middle) and attacking. Your "defensive line" is in charge of winning the ball back, then, depending on passing, sooner or later they will place it to the "transition line" (which is made up of your "support players"), they will then pass the ball to the "attacking line". It is in this last step that the focus of your passing will enter. If you set "middle" the ball goes through your FC(s), if you set "both flanks" the ball goes through the wings where it will be placed upon your ML or MR (and in some cases your FC if he drifts to the wing).

When you are playing Counter-attack I think it is best to place the ball on the flanks if you want to rely on Dribling, Crossing, Acceleration and Pace of your MR or ML, plus Heading, Jumping, Antecipation and Bravery of your FC. If you set it to "middle" to reach the net you will need Dribling, Accelaration, Finishing and Compusure from the FC, or he will have to pass the ball to the wings and delay the transition, giving the opposition time to rebuild. In conter-attack players don't case about the lines, most of the times you will see FB's send the ball to the "attacking line"

I think it rather depends on your players. There isn't an universal solution. But being a less able team I would go for "down both flanks" and tick conter-attack.

[Flek]

Sorry for my not perfect english text above. But I have one small (maybe already answered) doubt: whats the diference between low direct pass and high direct pass?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Very stupid question coming right up - but i just cant get my head around it...lol

Choosing a framework based on Global Mentalities :

Global Mentality Average

Defend: 4-5

Counter: 8-9

Balanced: 12-13

Attack: 16-17

I just cant understand this - can someone explain a little more. I know what the Rule of One is in terms of how many notches on the slider and so on....

....but does the above mean that if i am playing a DEFEND mentality, then i should start my defenders off on the 4th notch and grade up from there? .....and if i am using an ATTACK mentality start my defenders off at 16 notches?

Please help.

Thanks

I thought the 09 T&TF had done away with a Counter tactic set?

[simonbyrneno.4]

Hey guys,

I'm just looking for a bit of help with an issue that i have about my central midfielders. I'm currently using this tactic.....

http://www.community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=96488

and what i'm wondering is, what are the consequences of having both your centre mids having the "hold up ball" box ticked?

I currently use it for Carrick and it seems to sort of set him as the teams playmaker but i don't have him set as my actual playmaker as i don't believe in have a designated playmaker if you get what i mean. Anyway i think i'm making things more clouded and confusing than they should be....

Basically i'm trying to make my Carrick&Scholes tactic more successful and i'm looking for help to do this. I have both of them holding up the ball as i want both of them to sort of act as the "playmakers" of my team and i'm wondering does this theory actually work as although results are very good, my CM's average rating is very poor

[jaycar]

I'm trying to get overlapping fullbacks to work at the moment, apart from cross from byline, often fwr and the wingers having mixed fwr and maybe TTB often, anybody got any good advice?

[heathxxx]

Those settings should help, although I do see a resonable amount of overlapping from my full-backs even with my wingers set to Forward Runs "Often".

Perhaps making their mentalities a little closer? That said, there's a difference of 6 notches on the slider between my full-backs and my wingers.

[jaycar]

I'm trying a 2-6-2 mentality set-up so their mentalities are both 11 the wingers are still prone to go off dribbling however, although Driver does have runs with ball often as a preferred move so that may have something to do with it. :/

[ajooba]

Seriously - does this TT&F work for everybody? Ive read and read, tried and tried but I just dosnt work

And tactics like sexy football and tylerbode dosnt remind of TT&F.. This game is so difficult but I just love to much to let go..

[Flek]

Well I think TT&F isn't a rule to be followed, but is certainly points you in the right direction. There isn't only one way to play, there are plenty this thread just points you some of the basic aspects of tactial building. I think that is it equaly or more important to adapt the tactics to your players, select a correct line-up and motivate the players...

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

WWfan, any chance of a revised issue of the T&TF document - I presume there must be some changes after the feedback / playtesting since release? Also you would be the man to draw up a tabled form of instructions for "which tactic to use when" (v's match odds / AI formation) & "team talks". I still have situations where the odds combined with the pitch size, Oppos form & formation leaves me not having a clue which tactic to use (or to be more precise I would have 2 clear ideas on very different starting tactics but no idea how to select wisely).

[randominator]

What is the best framework for a Christmas Tree formation?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Ive just been sat on the toilet....(bear with me, this Post has a point)....that is where I do a lot of thinking, whilst browsing (a printed version!) of the T&TF document - and I'll bet I'm not the first to have done this.

I have come to several conclusions. Up until now my 442 with Nike def based the document has been good but no more that up to expectation for my St Etienne side. I want to push on to exceed. This is how my thought train went:

*I have stuck with Nike def since 14/11/08, I liked the sound of it but it has less flexibility in the D line than some others

*My "problems" seem to originate from not being able to react appropriately to the AI's tweaks, and I imagine D line is vital in that.

*I have always managed teams who are not the strongest in their league to start with and who cannot draw the talented stars some others in their league can

*My flair & creativity across the squad is lower than some

*Nike def is probably not the best suited to my club!

So this is what i propose to do:

*Create the tactic set all with 2 new options for "Def type", namely the RoT "Ferguson" and the RoO "Clough Jnr" (thats O'Neil to the rest of you).

*Start with the "Clough Jnr" and if not sucessful use the "Ferguson"

*Draw up table of what to do when (as a guide) featuring: D Line, team / player instructions etc. Based on: AI formation, pre match odds, AI reactions & Ass Man feedback.

I hope (especially as my next match is the Fr. Lge. Cup Final!) that I can see out the season unbeaten (7 games to go!) and then hone in pre-season for next season.

Whatever has happened I have NEVER felt the T&TF theories (which I cannot help but call the "wwfan set"!) don't work though I have flirted with other's ideologies, and have taken ideas to use in conjuntion with the wwfan sets in the future.

[Flek]

Nike Defence like said in the first post was used by J. Mourinho to take the most out of world-class players. The DMC mentality is just different from any other system because C. Makeléle is the best "defensive-game-reader" he can close any gap and spot any pass. He will recover the ball so many times in game. Plus, Chelsea because of their gret ability would most of the time play agaisnt a lone striker, so J. Terry would mark him, and R. Carvalho would pick the lost balls in the back. Is is not intended for a mid-table team in any way. I just use that system when playing agaisnt a lone striker formation, otherwise you are being "tactically" stupid.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Nike Defence like said in the first post was used by J. Mourinho to take the most out of world-class players. The DMC mentality is just different from any other system because C. Makeléle is the best "defensive-game-reader" he can close any gap and spot any pass. He will recover the ball so many times in game. Plus, Chelsea because of their gret ability would most of the time play agaisnt a lone striker, so J. Terry would mark him, and R. Carvalho would pick the lost balls in the back. Is is not intended for a mid-table team in any way. I just use that system when playing agaisnt a lone striker formation, otherwise you are being "tactically" stupid.

Ouch!!! Actually I prefer the word "naive" LOL

You are right, I didnt realise about the lone striker thing and it wasnt in black and white so I missed it! So seems I was right about switching to RoO / RoT. Love your explanation of the whole Chelsea tactic though.

[Flek]

I am a good football watcher Mourinho 4-3-3 is a dream to anyone but we need the right players. Plus I think the "Mourinho" libero isn't well explained in the specialist position section. The modern-day-defensive-libero isn't F. Beckambauer, he is just a player relative (when compared to the Striker) laking Strengh, but a bit pacey. I think it is conter-productive to tick "Try Offsise", as you don't want in any way have a straigh defensive line. You want the defensive Libero to play behind the defensive line.

He will be just a ball colector most of the time. However If you face a skillfull and pacey lone striker, the first defender will be sometimes beated by the striker, leaving the defensive Libero the hard task to win the ball back, as he will be the last man between the ball and the keeper

The defensive Libero should be have Accelaration and Pace (13 or plus), Takling and Bravery (15 or plus) and Decisions (12 or plus) for EPL standard. Bravery I think might be important, he can't avoid or delay any fight. If he does so the lone striker will have a perfect chance of a mid-range shot.

[cepwin]

I'd just like to thank you for producing such a detailed guide. As someone band new to the game and relatively new to Football I'm very much looking forward to reading it.

[SFraser]

I am a good football watcher Mourinho 4-3-3 is a dream to anyone but we need the right players. Plus I think the "Mourinho" libero isn't well explained in the specialist position section. The modern-day-defensive-libero isn't F. Beckambauer, he is just a player relative (when compared to the Striker) laking Strengh, but a bit pacey. I think it is conter-productive to tick "Try Offsise", as you don't want in any way have a straigh defensive line. You want the defensive Libero to play behind the defensive line.

He will be just a ball colector most of the time. However If you face a skillfull and pacey lone striker, the first defender will be sometimes beated by the striker, leaving the defensive Libero the hard task to win the ball back, as he will be the last man between the ball and the keeper

The defensive Libero should be have Accelaration and Pace (13 or plus), Takling and Bravery (15 or plus) and Decisions (12 or plus) for EPL standard. Bravery I think might be important, he can't avoid or delay any fight. If he does so the lone striker will have a perfect chance of a mid-range shot.

I am not entireally convinced by this setup as the lack of pace and lack off an Off-Side trap would leave this system vulnerable anytime the Centre-Backs move away from the edge of their own box, and a deep defensive line carries a host of problems not least of all encouraging both space and pressure while presenting a minimal opportunity in terms of time and distance for the recovery of mistakes. Clearly Mourinho's system as an entire team system worked but there is a question mark over the effectiveness of this defensive system if all it's produced problems cannot be dealt with completely.

I employ a defensive Libero with a much greater quantity of pace that is also the fulcrum of my off-side trap. His role is to time the Off-Side trap and cover failed interceptions or tackles without attempting to win the ball, forcing the attacker either down his right or left side and presenting a direct obstacle between striker and goal. The premise is that the distance between D-Line and goal combined to the pace of my Libero and his instructions to slow down and hinder but not directly defeat threats untill close to goal gives my defensive line time to recover and reposition or indeed intercept the player in question.

Clearly both systems are similar in premise but different in function and neither system is impervious to all threats. I tend to adapt something close to the system proposed in the quote simply by dropping the D-Line and altering Closing Down instructions when my defensive system is threatened by pace, an overpowering midfield or overloading attack. However for the most part I play high up the pitch with the equivelant of 3 extremely aggressive and high quality ball winning Centre-Backs alongside my Libero in a slightly echeloned back 4. The two most effective distributors and offensive capable players of that aggressive back 3 play on the flanks.

I would have to say that the development of a highly organised Off-Side trap is an incalculable weapon in defeating threats and allowing a backline to push up and apply pressure to an opponent. You can ofcourse revert to a deeper system when necessary but an off-side trap allows you that flexibility in using your defence as an offensive weapon, not to mention increasing it's defensive potency dramaticly.

[joel88]

Unbelievable thread again, thanks a lot.

[Flek]

SFraser AI is just a machine it is biased towards making certain mistakes and not knowing how to deal with certain situations correctly, plus it is made as an image of the English game. Your experience is based on "vs AI". I am talking about the real football world.

[SFraser]

Perhaps in your enthusiasm for the static Mourinho Libero system you failed to observe the multi function Libero system employed last season by Manchester United where both a high pressing Libero and deep sitting defensive line with sweeper according to the opposition was made feasible without dramatic alteration of the general setup. While the Mourinho system was effective and functional it has always been one dimensional and heavilly reliant upon the physique and defensive capabilities of its midfielders. The system employed by United in conjuction with the pace of Ferdinand had no such limitations and freed the manager to utilise vastly inferior defence capable midfielders in every match. I cannot imagine Mourinho's Libero succeeding on a regular basis with a two man central midfield containing Paul Scholes, precisely because his system is unable to compress the field to negate the defensive ineffectuality of the midfield while defending against direct pace threats, especially without the Off-Side trap.

I am not demeaning the system you described, merely pointing out is limitations if you do not have Essien, Lampard and either Ballack or Makelele. Likewise the system I posit is vastly reduced in effectiveness if you do not have Rio Ferdinand. For the fulcrum position of the Libero where all else is equal I would take pace and positioning over bravery, strength and aggression any day, simply because I can push up in many more games and therefore employ physically weak creatively adept midfielders in many more games. Obviously though the ball winning Centre Half partner should have these attributes in abundance, and not least of all the manager requires some conception of how to impliment the system.

[Flek]

I don't like the system you defend. You say you can use two less physical MCs, but I don't buy that. vs 4-4-2 If Ferdinand leaves is place he will leave a big gap behind. I think the limitations we are talking about are the same. Both systems are meant to be used vs a lone striker formation. J. Mourinho and Fergunson are very similar managers. I would say R. Ferdinand is a world-class defender and if you look in the world very few players can pull quality performances in the attacking Libero role.

[SFraser]

I don't like the system you defend. You say you can use two less physical MCs, but I don't buy that. vs 4-4-2 If Ferdinand leaves is place he will leave a big gap behind. I think the limitations we are talking about are the same. Both systems are meant to be used vs a lone striker formation. J. Mourinho and Fergunson are very similar managers. I would say R. Ferdinand is a world-class defender and if you look in the world very few players can pull quality performances in the attacking Libero role.

If any Centre Back leaves his place to cover a failure of his partner then his position should be at the area of maximum threat produced by the position of the ball, the positioning of opposition players presenting a direct goalscoring chance, and the goal. If at any time the last man fails to win a tackle then he halves the coverage of the goal. When you are the last man you do not rush into tackles and attempt to win the ball, you narrow your angles like a goalkeeper and stay on your feet untill the last moment. Your particular point is moot. Infact it is less than moot it is infact false as unlike Carvalho, Ferdinand has the pace to hold his positioning longer and does not have to move so early to cover emerging threats. Indeed when utilised in conjuction with a high defensive line that increases the distance between ball and goal and so reduced the direct threat of the ball carrier, the direct goal threat of any individual defensive mistake is vastly reduced. When the gaps can be plugged by distance and pace rather than men you immediatly free up a far larger number of players from vital defensive considerations.

In short you do not play with two CentreBacks high up the pitch unless you have pace. There is a reason for that, and when forced deep through a lack of pace you face the consequences of a deep defensive line. Should you have the team and managerial ability to compensate for that deficiency then well done to the man in question, but a static 18 yard line defending back four is far from the ideal situation in a 50 match season involving a signficiant quantity of points related competitions, irrespective of whether with the men available the manager in question developed the ideal system.

You may not like the system I defend but its function and success cannot be denied. It is infact rather a strange statement. Mourinho was obviously limited by the availability of World Class pacey Centre Backs and so adopted a system of extreme work ethic in midfield and a deep lying well organised back line. I can name multiple Central Midfielders that could fill the role of Essien or Lampard but I can think of no Centre Backs that combine the pace and positional ability of Ferdinand. Clearly this allows the defensive stability Manchester United have rarely before had in combination with the high number of offensive players they regularly field. The weakness of the system as has clearly been shown in recent games is obviously a lack of sufficient replacements and a lack of defensive numbers during an average United game. It is not however a weakness in the system when all members are fit. To rebuke such a system on the grounds that you produce is fallacious. It not only works but it is one of the best in the world defensively and perhaps the greatest defensive system produced for a team highly devoted to offensive numbers and play, and it clearly relies entireally upon the exact Centre Backs that are involved in it.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Interesting debate. For what its worth, switching from Nike to ONeil (RoO) doesnt seem to have solved the problem though I am now more aware of the D line importance. My star DC is also a Natural SW so I may switch from 442 to 1342 Sweeper, the defence being SW/DL/DC/DR if I need extra protection. On paper it works but I cant believe the Game will be that easy on me!. May be that SW/DCl/DC/DCr is the way to go but Im not sure, I want to keep fullback settings and that surely would fail for 2 tucked in wide players effectively at DC.

[Finknottle]

Perhaps one of you guys using the "Nike" defensive system could tell me which of the two CDs you drop back. Is it the faster of the two, so as he can use his pace to advantage if an opponent should break through? Or, is it the slower of the two leaving the faster one to try to stop the break through happening in the first place? Both my CDs have similar positioning statistics. Kind regards.

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

Perhaps one of you guys using the "Nike" defensive system could tell me which of the two CDs you drop back. Is it the faster of the two, so as he can use his pace to advantage if an opponent should break through? Or, is it the slower of the two leaving the faster one to try to stop the break through happening in the first place? Both my CDs have similar positioning statistics. Kind regards.

I read it that the faster DC dropped off and the Stronger Stopper got stuck in to the battle in front - but I have now changed away from Nike so I may be wrong.

[Finknottle]

I read it that the faster DC dropped off and the Stronger Stopper got stuck in to the battle in front - but I have now changed away from Nike so I may be wrong.

Thanks tigerhgrrrrrr, muchly appreciated. It's not often that I am right but I'm wrong again!!!!! Kind regards.

[Wayne\'o]

can i ask you guys the difference from using global settings using tac graber and setting up a tactic using the hints the ttf way?

[SFraser]

Perhaps one of you guys using the "Nike" defensive system could tell me which of the two CDs you drop back. Is it the faster of the two, so as he can use his pace to advantage if an opponent should break through? Or, is it the slower of the two leaving the faster one to try to stop the break through happening in the first place? Both my CDs have similar positioning statistics. Kind regards.

I drop Rio Ferdinand deeper than Vidic, but Ferdinand has superior positioning, pace, equal anticipation and decisions and higher influence. This makes him ideal as the leader of an off-side trap. He also has the PPM "does not dive into tackles" which means that when 1-on-1 with a striker and with sufficiently balanced Closing Down he will close quickly to the opponent that defeats the off-side trap but will not be drawn into a diving/sliding tackle. Closing Down is very much the key instruction for my Libero in my particular defensive system as too little sees him operate as a CB and not a Sweeper and avoid moving towards key breaks in the defensive line he has the pace and anticipation to defeat, whereas too much sees him ignore his key angle defending duties and both be drawn towards the area of play high up the pitch and attempt to tackle the ball carrier in overloaded attacking scenarios.

Keep in mind though that this system is not a generic ideal. TT&F as well as the recent defensive discussion is based upon the premise of systems tailored for situations and teams of individuals with recognised individual and collective attributes. There is no point employing the system I advocate in every match of a season where you will undoubtedly encounter a striker that is faster in movement or quicker in mind than the centre back, or indeed attempting to employ it where you lack the individuals with the specific attributes. Despite describing generic systems as a means of both understanding the theorems and as a guide towards employing basicly comprehensible systems as a foundation of the development of more context relevant tactics, I would have though this thread imparted the understanding of systems designed and tailored specifically for the players and situation at hand.

can i ask you guys the difference from using global settings using tac graber and setting up a tactic using the hints the ttf way?

Simplistic AI principles versus creative human contextual awareness. Simply increasing or decreasing the mentality of a single striker within a slightly different mentality system under certain conditions is enough for the AI to fool and defeat many human opponents, due to the rebalancing and variation of positions and movement of the entire team through match engine mechanics. By increasing or decreasing the mentality of one player the AI can increase or decrease the space available on the pitch that affects positioning and off-the-ball calculations of the match engine for all players on the pitch. It is a simple process with simple but effective and often important consequences. In short it is the most simple method of profoundly altering the shape of a match, and so it is included in the rather basic AI as the most used tactical alteration. The difference between the Portsmouth 4-2-4 and the Chelsea 4-3-3 and the Wigan 4-5-1 is the mentality of the second striker, the specific closing down and mentality preference of the coach and the attributes of the players. There is not infact a lot of structural difference whatsoever. Clever from the SI tactical whizz kid but not so impressive from whomever writes the AI code, unless you factor in efficiency in which case it is supreme.

[Wayne\'o]

i cant see the point in even having defensive tactics at out dissposal, teams are thumping 3's 4's and 5's against me when i play away from home, yet my home form is the best in the league.. all the AI needs to do is go attack and it's enough to pin me back all game with devestating out come, and there aint sweet FA i can do about accept moan like feck. whats the answer?

[Bolton]

Has anyone got poor ratings for FCd? I any players with FCd settings and they have poor ratings (something like 6.1 - 6.6) below the avg of my attacking players rating. Im using Heathxxx FCd settings.

[SFraser]

i cant see the point in even having defensive tactics at out dissposal' date=' teams are thumping 3's 4's and 5's against me when i play away from home, yet my home form is the best in the league.. all the AI needs to do is go attack and it's enough to pin me back all game with devestating out come, and there aint sweet FA i can do about accept moan like feck. whats the answer?[/quote']

If your home form is the best in the league then it sounds like a motivation issue.

Has anyone got poor ratings for FCd? I any players with FCd settings and they have poor ratings (something like 6.1 - 6.6) below the avg of my attacking players rating. Im using Heathxxx FCd settings.

Alongside motivation issues as mentioned above, you should try to be flexible with your mentalities. Your FCd may in certain games be better of set to an FCa mentality. I do this with my two strikers in my 4-4-2 system, if they are getting low ratings in a match then I either increase their mentalities to play as strikers or decrease their mentalities to play more like link-up forwards, and at half time I attempt to motivate them above their current performances.

If you play with an FCa and FCd in most games and the FCd is regularly achieving low ratings then it sounds like the issue is a packed opposition defence and a lack of supporting options from your own side. You need to ask why your FCa is getting higher ratings, and it might be because he is taking on higher risk offensive options like shots and dribbles but is managing to pull them off and cause problems, whereas your FCd is linking up the play but it leads to little threat. If he is a high quality creative player then try increasing his mentality by a notch or two and telling more players to get ahead of him during offensive play.

It is also possible that your team are completely by-passing your FCd as he is sitting too deep and he would benefit from a more advanced role to take advantage of your aggressive play. Either the play is behind him and he is linking up to minimal effect or the play is ahead of him and he is being by-passed, or the play is around him and he is being negated by the oppositions defensive options. Does your FCd have a high Free Role rating and good movement?

[Wayne\'o]

im just taking a look at the TTF file again. on the attack its got listed DC's and MC'd as Defend, MC'a FC'd as support and FB's Wide players and SC as Attack players,

I like to use a flat 4-4-2 with my MC'a to act as my Gerrard role player supporting the strikers, so what if the 2 Fb's were dropped to support to make it 3 support players Fb's and FC'd and in attack Both wide players MC'a and the SC so instead of 3-2-5 it would be 3-3-4 there isnr a 3-3-4 listed in the hints file, would this leave the centre of midfield to exposed seen as the MC'a would always be pushed righ tup with the striker?

also if i wanted to play a 4-2-3-1 Benitex style formation how do i work out the defend, support and attack roles?

i assume the FC'd would be replaced by the MC'a so the FC'd drops to the bench, would another MC'A be added to the spare MC? and if so does he stay as a support player or become a Defensive player?

[tigerhgrrrrrr]

"Football is a game of opionins"... and now I am confused!

The ass man says for a narrow pitch that wide men struggle to make an impact and teams playing through the middle will benefit. So that means "focus passing though middle " I imagine. But some other Posts have suggested that by increasing "width" you can make full use of what little width there is. That makes sense too. So would you use both settings to take advantage, there seems to be some contradiction to me using both or have I misread the ME in this case?

[Lucho_Gonzalez]

As a seasoned moaner and complainer, I just wanted to thank wwfan and millie for this guide. Honestly, the simple language used in this version of the guide simply doesn't do justice to the philosophical insight of this project.

Quite wonderful stuff, and thanks again guys.

[Wayne\'o]

As a seasoned moaner and complainer, I just wanted to thank wwfan and millie for this guide. Honestly, the simple language used in this version of the guide simply doesn't do justice to the philosophical insight of this project.

Quite wonderful stuff, and thanks again guys.

yeh it reads well and gives makes sence. shame it doesn't deleiver what it says on the tin if you follow the guide to the letter can't say it has improved my game at all, it's just caused load of conflicts and there is never any one around to answer difficult question's when you need an answer to somthing..

I just wish using the advice in there could improve my away form by 50%