Tactical advice to leverage smaller strikers

[Erith22]

I've only managed to score much with big strikers (15+ jumping) in FM 2019.  The only exceptions are true world class world-beaters like Salah who have crazy high pace, technicals and mentals.

While a big striker can knock in their share of goals just by being around the box, it seems like you have to be truly world class to accomplish much with a under 10 jumping type.  Defenders seem to stick to anything but the most world class strikers like glue, meaning the only way to get off a shot is to out-muscle them.

I currently have a wonderkid Brazilian with good pace, outstanding mentals and technicals, but a jumping of only 7 and only a 12 dribbling (but 18 long shots!).  I'd love to have him as an AMC but he doesn't even have that as competent.  How do I get such a player in enough space with the ball to damage?  

[Experienced Defender]

We need to see a screenshot of your tactic (and preferably also of your "wonderkid" player profile). Each player is part of a tactical system, and so are the strikers. We don't know which team you are managing, what's your formation, style of play etc... Without that, any advice we might give you would be insufficient and possibly misleading.

[Rashidi]

1 hour ago, Erith22 said:

How do I get such a player in enough space with the ball to damage? 

You create the space using the roles and duties, you draw players around so you leave that player with a 1v1 with space to exploit. 

[Erith22]

Sure. I  was looking for more general advice but here's the player and tactic.

Yes, yes I know, the name:

 

This is my primary tactic.  I realize CFA is not the right role for him, its what I use with my current starting forward who has a 17 jumping:

[Experienced Defender]

I would rather play this guy as a poacher or AF, especially in this 4231 system. He might also serve as a PF on attack sometimes, but would not use it as his primary role.

11 hours ago, Erith22 said:

This is not the whole tactic, but just formation with roles and duties, so my analysis will be somewhat limited.

Okay... so if you do change the wonderkid's role to a poacher (according to my suggestion), then I would recommend changing the AML's duty to IF on support and AMR's to winger on attack. 

A few more questions:

- why do you use a regista (because you really have a suitable player for the role or you simply want to try and see how it works)?

- what's your reasoning behind using a NCB?

- why do you opt for a BWM role as the more defensive of the 2 DMs? Anchor and half-back (or a standard DM on defend) are safer roles because they don't tend to run around and press the opposition all the time.

- what are your mentality, team and player instructions? (you can post a new screenshot where these would be visible)

 

[Erith22]

All good questions.

So one key point is that I'm Petersborough, in the PL.  I have a 13000 seat stadium (brand new 24K seater being built!).  I probably don't have a single player who could start for either of the Manchester clubs.

My players are a lot of youngsters I've bought and developed, tend to have low technicals/mentals and high physicals.

I had the one DC as a NCB because he has few skills beyond the core CD ones, though I'm going to turn that off perhaps because he also has all the pure defensive PPMs (stay back, simple passes, etc)  so its sort of redundant.

I had already switched my BWM to an Anchor before you posted.  The regista is an athletic, high vision/passing midfielder with get forward, stops ball and controls tempo PPMs so he seemed a good choice for the role.

I am experimenting with switching the wing mentalities.  First match it seemed to work well.  The IF is my leading goalscorer, has a 16 finishing (which is good for my club).  

One thing I suffer from is that my fullbacks are poor technically, meaning I'm afraid to put them on more aggressive mentalities.  This results in my attacks tending to be badly outnumbered.  I do rely on a lot of long shots to score.

If people are interested I'll post my players a bit later.

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

My players are a lot of youngsters I've bought and developed, tend to have low technicals/mentals and high physicals.

I had the one DC as a NCB because he has few skills beyond the core CD ones, though I'm going to turn that off perhaps because he also has all the pure defensive PPMs (stay back, simple passes, etc)  so its sort of redundant.

Considering all this, it's not a bad idea to use him as a NCB. I don't think NCB is a wrong role - and I also like to use it when managing weaker teams - just was curious about your reasoning 

 

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

had already switched my BWM to an Anchor before you posted

 

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

The regista is an athletic, high vision/passing midfielder with get forward, stops ball and controls tempo PPMs so he seemed a good choice for the role.

Nice. So he seems to have what it takes for a REG. Depending on his other attributes, maybe you can occasionally try him as a RPM as well?

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

One thing I suffer from is that my fullbacks are poor technically, meaning I'm afraid to put them on more aggressive mentalities.  This results in my attacks tending to be badly outnumbered.  I do rely on a lot of long shots to score.

If you play a more defensive/counter-attacking style, then you don't need to make the fullbacks more attack-minded. You can rely on fast forwards to attack space behind the opposition defense during quick transitions. Of course, provided you have the right type of players for such a style of football.

 

2 hours ago, Erith22 said:

f people are interested I'll post my players a bit later

I don't know about others, but I am very interested to see and analyze your players  

[Erith22]

I'm attaching my team images below.  A few changes since I started this thread.  My Regista got lured away by Bayern.  I also acquired another pretty amazing striker and I'm struggling to get him scoring as well.  Finally I broke my transfer record to bring in an amazing 19 yo keeper.  Would love any tactical ideas people want to share for this roster.  Last season I started very strong and was in the top 5 by the window, but collapsed in the second half and ended up finishing 10th.

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

I've studied all these guys very carefully, and my first impression is that your team is pretty good on average. With these bunch of players, I would opt for a counter-attacking style, rather than possession-based football. You have a lot of pace up front that could be utilized effectively. 

If you would like me to tell you what my primary tactic would be for this team (along with appropriate explanation), I'm more than willing to share my thoughts with you  

Btw, I noticed that a few players from your tactical screenshot are missing. Did you sold all of them or what?

[Erith22]

Thanks for taking a look.  Yes I sold a couple of players.

I would definitely love some advice on how to put together a good counter attacking system with these players.  As you can see I've assembled the roster with a 4-2-3-1  2 DM tactic in mind.  Currently I am playing a more attacking, short passing style, and its giving me some success but I have a lot of trouble getting good chances.  I also have no idea how to leverage 'Cristiano Ronaldo's 18 long shots.  It feels like no matter what role I give him he (and every other forward) play like an Advanced Forward (f9s don't drop back significantly that I can tell, for example).  Another issue I have is Martins.  Even though I play him as either a W(S) or W(A), he seems to want to cut inside all the time and always sits in the box as part of a front 3 rather than staying wide (even though those instructions are part of his role and he doesn't have a cut inside PPM).  This happens regardless of what I do with the fullback (D,S,A, cut inside, stay wide, overlap, underlap, nothing).  It definitely hurts my spacing and crowds the box with defenders.

 

 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

16 hours ago, Erith22 said:

I would definitely love some advice on how to put together a good counter attacking system with these players.  As you can see I've assembled the roster with a 4-2-3-1  2 DM tactic in mind

A 42DM31 is the right choice of formation for your players IMO, so I would keep it. I also like your selection of roles for the 2 DMs

What I would change though is a number of team instructions and a couple of roles and duties, which I will elaborate later in the post. 

16 hours ago, Erith22 said:

Another issue I have is Martins.  Even though I play him as either a W(S) or W(A), he seems to want to cut inside all the time and always sits in the box as part of a front 3 rather than staying wide

I am not sure why would he do that, so I can only assume the overlap right might be a reason (or he might be forced by opposition way of defending to move more into central areas). But I would remove both overlaps anyway, because they would only complicate things in the counter-attacking tactic I want to recommend to you. Focus play through the middle is also something I would remove (not least because it increases the mentality of your CBs and DMs). But focus play down the right & left is something worth considering (I'll explain why when I get to that point).

So let's begin with roles and duties (bolded are the changes I've made compared to your original tactic):

AF

IFsu         AMat          Wsu

 

ACM    DLPsu

WBsu    NCBco    CDde    FBsu

SKde

Who would play in which position and what PIs I would use:

GK/SKde - Ben Thabet (only because I don't know the other guy Walton)

DCL/NCBco - Van Drongelen

DCR/CDde - Panzo (PI - ease of tackles)

DL/WBsu - Dimarco (PI - dribble less) (btw, I don't know your other LB Saul, so cannot tell you how exactly I would use him)

DR/FBsu - Molina (PIs - dribble less, hold position)

DMCL/ACM - Van Zaanen (mark tighter)

DMCR/DLPsu - Gomes (mark tighter)

AML/IFsu - Rabbi (PIs - get further forward, roam from position, mark tighter MR or AMR position)

AMR/Wsu - Martins (mark tighter ML or AML position)

AMC/AMat - Bello 

ST/AF - Ronaldo (PI - shoot more often)

I would opt for Balanced mentality in my primary tactic, because it is more measured in terms of passing risk (and risk in general), especially when playing a more direct, counter-based style, because it will somewhat reduce the players' tendency to rush the ball forward urgently at all times, and should thus help you keep possession a bit better than you would have on a higher mentality. 

Team instructions (with explanations):

In possession:

- higher tempo and more direct passing (both TIs one notch above the medium) - a logical choice for direct counter-attacking football, especially in a system such as the deep 4231

- play wider (one notch above the medium) - to stretch opposition defenses and make more space for the 2 attacking guys in the middle

- focus play down both the right and left - this will slightly increase the mentality of both your fullbacks, which will make them be of more support to wide forwards and DMs, helping to more efficiently recycle possession when needed (the risk of their higher mentalities is balanced by having two holding DMs)

- hit early crosses - you have relatively fast forwards with generally good movement and anticipation, which should be taken advantage of

- low or whipped crosses - for basically the same reason

An optional TI that you can use occasionally (when you see the opposition leaving a lot of space between and behind the lines) - pass into space. Sometimes "Be more expressive" can also be an option, but be careful when playing against strong opposition!

In transition:

- counter - no explanation needed 

- throw it long, distribute quickly, distribute to flanks - to encourage quick counters whenever possible (when you already have a result you are pleased with, you can change this to roll it out to CBs and FBs and remove quick distribution)

Against stronger sides - regroup!

Out of possession:

- standard or higher DL - your defenders are pretty pacy, so you don't have to defend too deep (plus Van Drongelen on cover duty)

- lower LOE - both to deny opposition space and create more space for your fast attacking transitions once the ball has been won

- wider or standard defensive width - your defenders don't look too good in the air, but are instead fast and have decent mentals (plus 2 DMs are there), so you should look to avoid dealing with crosses as much as possible

- mark tighter - I would use this (rather than get stuck in) as a way of putting additional pressure on the opposition 

- standard or more urgent pressing intensity - experiment with these two, to see which suits your players better

So, what's the basic idea here?

Counter-attacking football is based on solid defense and fast transitions. With the roles and duties I've chosen here (based on strengths and weaknesses of your guys), your defense should be pretty solid and hard to break down. And remember - defense is not just the back four, but the entire team!

The fast transitions should work pretty well with your players generally being decent passers of the ball and relatively fast forwards with good movement.

Why would I opt for counter-attacking, rather than possession and control-based football? 

Simply, most of your players are pretty good (or at least decent) on average, but they aren't extraordinary (and a couple of them are potential weak links, especially Panzo at the back). On the other hand, the speed, movement and anticipation of your forward four guys is "naturally" calling for such a style of play, and even more so when you have a more than decent DLP in Gomes, who can provide nice, intelligent and timely passes most of the time.

NOTE: This tactic is based on these particular 11 players. When you rotate some of them, sometimes you will need to consider certain tweaks to relevant roles (and sometimes perhaps even duties). Also, when playing against stronger and top teams, you'll naturally need to be more conservative and tweak accordingly. I hope you understand why this is important.

P.S: Take all this just as an idea or suggestion. If you believe it would be a wrong choice for your team, feel absolutely free to ignore everything I wrote  

[Erith22]

Thanks so much for your advice.

I have actually been doing quite well in my new season.  I had a 15 match unbeaten stretch and had risen all the way to 3rd, before dropping an annoying match to to Burnley 0-1 (where they scored early on a FK) and then 1-2 to Man U.  So I pulled your tactic out against Chelsea away, and won 4-0.  Ronaldo scored all 4 on 5 shots!  Clearly, sample size, but I definitely think this is a good tactic for tough opponents and moderately challenging away matches.  This is the current version of my home tactic.  I'm looking for a replacement for Panzo.  I have a talented youngster but unfortunately he's got a pace/accel of 11 which concerns me.

Bean, with his high dribbling has seemed to perform better in possession situations that Ronaldo so I've been starting him more, but they are both good and so its a tricky balancing act.

I've noticed in FM 2019 it seems wonderkid strikers are pretty easy to obtain (I paid less than 20M combined for them), while defenders are a lot tougher.  

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

38 minutes ago, Erith22 said:

I'm looking for a replacement for Panzo.  I have a talented youngster but unfortunately he's got a pace/accel of 11 which concerns me.

Can you post his profile? If he has extraordinary mentals, it can counterbalance the lack of speed.

[Erith22]

I wouldn't call them extraordinary, though he is only 20:

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

19 minutes ago, Erith22 said:

I wouldn't call them extraordinary, though he is only 20:

 

 

Well, for a 20-year-old he is more than good for a CB, and has a lot of room to develop into a great defender over years. His technical attributes are pretty poor though, but you can use him as a NCB until he (hopefully) gets more comfortable with the ball at his feet. I would train him in the BPD role (on defend duty) with additional focus on quickness.

[Robson 07]

I don't think shortest passing & play through the middle sit well when used with playing wider and using a winger.  Seems a bit conflicting that bit.

[Erith22]

2 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

I don't think shortest passing & play through the middle sit well when used with playing wider and using a winger.  Seems a bit conflicting that bit.

That's possible.  My issue was that without play through the middle my guys insist on crossing everything.

So I've played a few more matches with the counter tactic.  Unfortunately I seem to be taking on too much pressure.  Both matches my opponents took nearly 30 shots.  And while a lot of those were long, eventually some are going to leak through, which happened both times.  Both of them played wide and had nearly 60 crosses.  I tried defending wider but it didn't seem to help a lot...