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Europa League? where are you?

mark wilson27

By mark wilson27,
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mistahc

mistahc

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Ah Mandela. A true hero, the news has cut me up badly because he taught me so much. I was ten years old living in London when I watched the concert to support his release from prison, with friends of all nationalities unaware of what racism even was. His imprisonment opened up the gates to a world I didn't understand and still don't. RIP.

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Balthazars

Balthazars

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Ah Mandela. A true hero, the news has cut me up badly because he taught me so much. I was ten years old living in London when I watched the concert to support his release from prison, with friends of all nationalities unaware of what racism even was. His imprisonment opened up the gates to a world I didn't understand and still don't. RIP.

Indeed, someone worthly of the title 'legendary' due to the profound impact he had not just on his own country, but on the whole world. A humble and dedicated man to his cause, someone worthy of respect. RIP.

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BenArsenal

BenArsenal

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Mandela's passing is a great loss to the world.

Just a quick mention about the World Cup draw though. Some terribly easy groups there (France, Argentina and Belgium). Group A and C I think will be reasonably open, while Group B (Spain vs Holland) and Group G (Klinsmann vs Loew, plus Ronaldo and Ghana) most definitely the Groups of Death. I feel quite sorry for the Aussies in Group B actually.

As for England, personally I don't think Uruguay are all that. If they can keep Suarez in check (and that's a big if) then the tie is winnable. And Italy are highly combustible (especially with Balotelli), so all England need is a bit of luck. It's not all doom and gloom.

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chesterfan2

chesterfan2

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The world is indeed a poorer place now that Nelson Mandela has passed away, but there is one immense positive that he leaves us with, one that everyone should take note of.

One man can, indeed, make the world a better place.

He has, and let's be thankful for that.

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Balthazars

Balthazars

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Congrats to Newcastle and Everton fans for experiencing their first wins at Old Trafford in a very long time! Makes me a bit mad though, Arsenal really should have won there as well...

It's a bit strange. Most of the United fans that I've actually had the pleasure of conversing with a bit (both in real life and even here on the forums) are thoroughly likable people with a bit of humility and class about the way they support their club. I feel a bit sorry as to how they must be feeling at the moment, United have been abject in the past two games and on many an occasion this season.

But sometimes, with the sheer number of smug posturing that comes out of some of their so-called 'fanbase' makes it hard not to enjoy a bit of a chuckle at their expense at the moment. Particularly after how quickly many of them were so eager and happy to stick the boot into Arsenal when times were tough at Goonerland.

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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It's called Schadenfreude, Balty, and you're entitled to it.

I'm not going to write off Moyes quite yet but I was quite clear in my opinion that he was the wrong hire for Manchester United at the time and he's done nothing to prove me wrong so far. As of now, this is the kind of mistake that can cost a club millions, and the Glazers won't like losing millions.

Does anyone seriously think that Jose Mourinho would have United ninth at the present time?

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mark wilson27

mark wilson27

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For me I didn't want Moyes at the club, his play is far too negative and a lot my mates that are Everton fans are glad he has gone. At the moment we don't seem to be working as a team and there seems to be that lack of killer instinct that we had under Sir Alex. I know it must be hard to come in after a great like that, just look how it affected us when Sir Matt left.

If it wasn't for the inconsistency of the "top" teams in the Premiership this season we would be even more behind

As for Mourinho I don't think we would be as low as 9th and would be around the top.

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BenArsenal

BenArsenal

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Congrats to Newcastle and Everton fans for experiencing their first wins at Old Trafford in a very long time! Makes me a bit mad though, Arsenal really should have won there as well...

It's a bit strange. Most of the United fans that I've actually had the pleasure of conversing with a bit (both in real life and even here on the forums) are thoroughly likable people with a bit of humility and class about the way they support their club. I feel a bit sorry as to how they must be feeling at the moment, United have been abject in the past two games and on many an occasion this season.

But sometimes, with the sheer number of smug posturing that comes out of some of their so-called 'fanbase' makes it hard not to enjoy a bit of a chuckle at their expense at the moment. Particularly after how quickly many of them were so eager and happy to stick the boot into Arsenal when times were tough at Goonerland.

Ditto.

For what it's worth though, did anyone really expect better? I mean, it's always going to be tough replacing a manager who's been around for a quarter of a century. Anyone who follows won't be able to replicate that success overnight.

At the end of Liverpool's 'era' it took them nearly a decade to be even hanging around the top again.

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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I expected better than ninth place. While it is true that United has needed overhaul for awhile now, surely the handpicked successor to SAF should be doing better than he is. Moyes has now not used the same XI for 15 consecutive matches. He doesn't have an idea of his best team yet?

And Mark is right. I saw a United team with no will yesterday and as Mark said, a team that was far too negative, especially at home. Without Rooney they look punchless. I don't care who is out there, Ferguson would never have stood for that.

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Balthazars

Balthazars

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I expected better than ninth place. While it is true that United has needed overhaul for awhile now, surely the handpicked successor to SAF should be doing better than he is. Moyes has now not used the same XI for 15 consecutive matches. He doesn't have an idea of his best team yet?

And Mark is right. I saw a United team with no will yesterday and as Mark said, a team that was far too negative, especially at home. Without Rooney they look punchless. I don't care who is out there, Ferguson would never have stood for that.

I think most people would have thought that while United might struggle a bit in the change-over (I certainly did), 9th in the table after a third of the season gone is absolutely too low. The squad had its problems (average midfield, aging first-choice defenders apart from Rafael) but I think most expected that given Fergie was able to take that team to the title for a canter, a new manager shouldn't have resulted in such a big drop-off in performance. Are some of these players simply just coasting? Or was Fergie really such a genius to make them click?

That said, the Special One isn't doing too crash hot with his Chelsea team either. He didn't address the defensive issues the team clearly had leading on from last season (aging players again is a big concern here, lack of a good defensive midfielder as well), instead deciding to hoover up more attacking midfielders and sending his best striker on loan. Chelsea have now lost 3 times and conceeded 17 goals, more than they did in his entire first season. They've been great offensively, alebit wasteful at times, but have looked entirely too brittle at the back (as opposed to United, who have looked very toothless offensively without Rooney).

Also saw a lot of Everton fans posting on online forums recently that Martinez is also showing Moyes' weaknesses given how much better he has Everton playing. While he made a number of crucial signings over the summer, the squad is largely the same, but the overall quality of Everton's play appears to have progressed another level.

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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The issue for me with Moyes was that he wasn't devoid of talent at Everton and they didn't win ANYTHING. I've never thought of him as a manager able to get the best out of players. Martinez, though not a particular favorite of mine at Wigan, appears to be better at that important skill than Moyes.

And, for me, nobody was able to perform that skill better than Alex Ferguson, love him or loathe him. The gulf in quality in the dugout is immense and it's now on display for all to see.

It can also be fairly said that Moyes' Everton teams were slow starters and strong finishers. But at United, that's never going to be acceptable. You win last week, you win this week, you win next week. That's the ethos. United is a mess now by comparison to any of Ferguson's teams over the last fifteen years. Changeover or no, that shouldn't happen at a club of their resources.

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salkster2102

salkster2102

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As a Liverpool fan I am rather enjoying seeing Man Utd struggle this season, considering how much stick we've been getting over the past few years. Replacing Fergie was always going to be a poisoned chalice for the first few years. That being said I do think Fergie retired at a convenient time. He's not really strengthened the team over the past few years and I think he just wanted to get one over on City and then be done. I feel sorry for Moyes but I don't think he's helped himself on the outside looking in. Here's my thoughts on what is going wrong.

Fergie was a great manager no doubt about it. But it wasn't all down to him. Behind every great front man is a great backroom team. Mourinho has is own which has gone with him wherever he's gone. Ferguson had a great backroom team and despite his pleas to keep it the same Moyes brought a few of his own in. Fair enough he wants to do it his own way but why change a winning formula? This was always going to be a transition period and I think he changed a bit too much too soon here.

It's been no secret the past few years United have been lacking a bit in midfield and even more so now. In my opinion this is down to the current injury to Carrick and even more so down to the retirement to Scholes. Fergie found that out and brought him out of retirement and now I believe Moyes is finding that out. With Scholes gone and Carrick injured there is no one to keep the midfield together at the moment. Games are won and lost in midfield and United don't have that. They've got world class forwards in Rooney and RVP and the defense is alright. Rooney isn't the biggest goalscorer though and with RVP being injured, and for the life of me which I don't understand Welbeck is preferred to Hernandez, it's no surprise they aren't scoring much of late.

The transfer window was awful for United which would never would have happened under Fergie. Fergie got his business done quickly and quietly which was quite the opposite this summer. From what i've heard United turned down the chance to sign Ozil which given how well Arsenal are doing now makes them look a bit silly. They only signed Fellaini to prove they could sign someone since everyone else turned them down which to me just looked a desperate move. I've seen nothing to change my mind from that. January is going to be a big window for United and it could be the difference between having European football next season and not having it. I think it is that big for them.

I agree with 10-3 that Moyes doesn't know his best team. From what i've heard he's tried lots of combinations in defense midfield and attack and can't settle on one. This was a team that won the league last year albeit what was a poor year for the premier league. They shouldn't be down in 9th in December no matter who is manager. They are clearly underperforming for whatever reason. The only bright sparks for United have been Rooney's form and Januzaj who seems to have quietened down now. This was supposed to be the year Zaha emerged but I don't remember hearing him being played. Rumours i've heard is that is down to him banging Moyes' daughter. Oops!

It's a tough period for United which Fergie always got them through. They rarely ever lost 2 games in a row under Fergie. They need to stop feeling sorry for themselves and knuckle down like Champions. Time will tell if Moyes can bring that out of them. They can keep this form up though for me :D

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Jibby123

Jibby123

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Well put salkster :thup:

Here's my humble opinion but Manchester United's biggest problem now is Ferguson. Until everyone from Chief Exec to tea lady and every player and fan between resigns the guy to history to sit alongside Busby up there then no manager can be a success there. I'd ban him from all Man Utd premises if I was a United man. :D

In the Viera vs Keane interview/chat tonight on ITV4 Keane alludes to this I think, saying what other's can't/won't say about how involved Ferguson might be? Keane being a man with an axe to grind with Ferguson or a say it as you see it kind of guy you decide.

I think some are being a little harsh on Moyes, let's wait and see. They gave Ferguson time and patience once and that worked out ok, but I think Moyes has taken the worst vacancy available this past summer in world football. It's a no win situation but what could he do? United need to switch on to that this a whole, new chapter. Ferguson is history or needs to be. Harking back to how good it all was won't help.

Personally I hope United bomb. It's funny as. :lol:

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salkster2102

salkster2102

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If there is one person I feel sorry for right now it's Malky Mackay. Done absolute wonders on the pitch for Cardiff yet is clearly on borrowed time at Cardiff. Wouldn't surprise me if they sacked him just before their match tomorrow. All the other managers are saying how brilliant he's done on the pitch for them which makes me wonder if he's done anything wrong off the pitch. Ok he upset the owner saying he wanted to sign more players but surely their must be more to it that that, something must have gone on.

Steve Clarke sacking I can sort of understand if you look at all the results this year. But he got overachieved with them last year and seems to have paid the price for over expectations after last season. Feel sorry for him West Brom are a good club but have made a knee jerk reaction for me.

Villas Boas sacking I can understand. After watching them on Sunday they was awful. The non league side I watch every week play better than them. All the players had no desire, no idea what they was doing. Might as well had put 11 headless chickens out there. They sold 1 player and signed 7 or maybe more. How on earth can so many players be integrated into a team in such a small space of time. They were all young and talented players so they were never going to hit off straight away. For me it shows how much they overachieved with 'Arry and how overrated Vilas Boas was. They are still above Man Utd though so what does that say.

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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Well, Mackay would be a dome-scratcher if he went, that's for sure. However, the top ego at most clubs isn't the manager's, it's the guy who signs the checks, despite Bill Shankly's famous quote about the "holy trinity" at a club. Tell you what, though, if I managed a Premiership team and the owner was upset that my competitve nature came out when I said I wanted more signings, I'd wonder about the owner's ambition.

AVB was in a no-win situation from the moment Bale was sold. You can't throw a team together in the time he was given after that sale and expect it to jell. That said, at the time of his firing he was four points off Europe with a match in hand. THAT deserves a sacking? And let's not forget some of the hidings Wigan took under Roberto Martinez and look where he is now.

And as for United .. well, the less said about that the better.

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mistahc

mistahc

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I'm going to spend the next week bumming about in Bali, so I'm gonna wish the forum in advance a Merry Crimbo and a Happy Neu Year. :D

Have a fantastic break mate. Spare a thought for us in the cold and wet, and those working. (that'll be me!)

Merry Christmas.

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Balthazars

Balthazars

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You poor guy. Couldn't you find someplace pleasant? :p

Have a great time, and Merry Christmas to all.

Not quite as exotic as Ben, but I'm off to Guangzhou, China to visit my fiancee's family for Christmas and the New Year. Enjoy the holiday period everyone, stay safe and have fun whatever it is you end up doing!

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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As for me, I'll be at home. My son is home on leave from the U.S. Army and we've got a family Christmas planned. The quieter the better for us.

Also, we do need to talk about awards for the year just passed and with me being gone for so long this fall that was something I failed to start. Anyone want to help with that?

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mistahc

mistahc

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As for me, I'll be at home. My son is home on leave from the U.S. Army and we've got a family Christmas planned. The quieter the better for us.

Also, we do need to talk about awards for the year just passed and with me being gone for so long this fall that was something I failed to start. Anyone want to help with that?

Is there anything I can do? Happy to assist where possible.

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chesterfan2

chesterfan2

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As for me, I'll be at home. My son is home on leave from the U.S. Army and we've got a family Christmas planned. The quieter the better for us.

That does sound nice, tenthree, best wishes for a good Christmas.

I'm just at the start of my last but one nightshift before Christmas. I finish this set at 7am on Christmas Eve. Then it's home with wife and three hyperactive kids. Wouldn't have it any other way.

And while I'm here, Happy Christmas to all. Best wishes to you and all your loved ones.

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tenthreeleader

tenthreeleader

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Thanks, cf. Been a long year for us. Firstborn away from home for the first time, been emotional for all of us here at the Mother Ship.

With regard to awards, we'll be doing them after the New Year. :) Will be looking for volunteers to help write the ceremony and what not.

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Celtic_1967

Celtic_1967

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Hello everyone,

Just wanted to wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

As in previous years I have asked Santa for Avril Lavigne for Christmas but (to quote Tim Michin)... 'the old combination of socks, jocks and chocolates are just fine by me' as long as I have my family.

I wish, to everyone here, a wonderful, peaceful and happy holiday and prosporeus 2014 for you and yours.

Mikey x

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salkster2102

salkster2102

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Merry Christmas everyone. I'll even be man enough to wish all the people I dislike or dislike me a happy Christmas. This is a time to remember all those poor people who are so much worse off than us and I wish them all the best not just for now but that their lives will improve for the future.

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Celtic_1967

Celtic_1967

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Merry Christmas to all. Spent my evening with family and friends, opening gifts and enjoying my son's company. Perfect night. I got what I wanted when his plane landed :)

This makes me happy, but I'll bet not as happy as 10-3.

Christmas, no matter how you cut it there's no escaping that it should be family time.

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chesterfan2

chesterfan2

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Merry Christmas to all. Spent my evening with family and friends, opening gifts and enjoying my son's company. Perfect night. I got what I wanted when his plane landed :)
This makes me happy, but I'll bet not as happy as 10-3.

Christmas, no matter how you cut it there's no escaping that it should be family time.

Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside doesn't it ? seriously but, happy Christmas, Mikey, 10-3, everybody. Now do I have time/room for another minced pie/mulled wine combo before bed ?

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