Europa League? where are you?

[tenthreeleader]

MK Dons 4-0 Manchester United. Absolutely speechless.

[CFuller]

Same here. It makes one wonder why United chose to spend close to £60million on Angel Di Maria rather than invest the money in strengthening their weaker positions.

Yes, it was a second-string team, but even that lot should've beaten MK Dons without too many problems. United were so careless with possession tonight, and they do not look at all comfortable in a 3-5-2 formation. If I was a United fan, I'd be fearing that things will get worse before they improve.

[copperhorse21]

It will take me a very convincing argument to support how this result is significantly less humiliating than Brazil's 1-7 loss to Germany in the World Cup. Using the excuse that Brazil's loss was a on global stage isn't going to convince me. Saying it was United's second string isn't going to convince me either because many of the key 2nd stringers represent their nations for international competitions, especially compared to MK Dons' starting lineup.

All in all, here was an opportunity for those fringe players who were told they are no longer welcomed playing at United to be absolutely phenomenal to show prospective teams how valuable they are for purchase! If Chicharito, Welbz, Anderson, and Kagawa are being asked to leave, offering up this performance as a representation for how much you are worth is a travesty of traitor-like proportions.

Frankly, I can see why so many MK Dons players didn't even want to exchange jerseys following the match...I wouldn't want their jerseys either. If I was manager in this situation, I don't know if I could speak to them in the locker room or on the coach ride/airplane flight home...at least not for a substantial cooling down period.

Agree with CFuller completely on spending 60M on a single player when there are so many who don't want to play for United anymore. What a gamble playing them in the first place, apparently.

I'd love to have been the gambler who bet on MK Dons winning 4-0. Retirement plan complete and resignation turned in tomorrow, I'd predict.

Gobsmacked....I can hardly wait for morning talk shows to hear what the experts and the fans have to say.

[tenthreeleader]

Well, here's Van Gaal's words:

“It was a matter of making errors at wrong moments,” he reflected. “When you see the goals against us, I believe there were big errors in the build-ups. When you make errors like that, you give the match away.”

As opposed to making errors at the right moments? Those aren't errors. But there's a lot of work to do and when the accountants can't add in Champions League revenue any more, it's squeaky-bum time for the Glazers.

[WLKRAS]

The goals they conceded all came from individuals giving the ball away in silly positions. Some of the defending was shocking, I'd expect an u-7's team to defend better.

Having said that, I'm still convinced that van Gaal will turn them back into title challengers. He's got form for starting poorly at new teams (7th at Bayern in November, went on to win the double, lost first 2 matches with AZ conceding 8, still won the title).

It is less humiliating than Brazil for a number of reasons. Brazil got turned inside out and were five down in 30 minutes, they conceded because Germany tore them apart, not because they gave the ball away in bad areas. Brazil had the weight and hopes of the entire nation on it, at home, in their own world cup. United were playing in the capital one cup ffs. It's still just a tinpot trophy.

Bad result? Yes. Humiliating? If you read the scoreline, then yes. End of the world? By no means, there's a lot of football still to be played and United will improve significantly.

[chesterfan2]

But. Playing the second string team in one of only three competitions United are actually in this year ??? One that carries a EURO cup place for the winners, the wisdom of that is somewhat questionable.

I know copper says they are not a second string compared to MK Dons, but that's what they are compared to United's squad.

[copperhorse21]

WLKRAS, you are correct in saying the prestige of the competition is much less than the World Cup. You are also correct in saying Brazil got turned inside out by allowing 5 goals in 30 minutes. I've always taught my own players that when you are competing, you will make mistakes and those mistakes will have consequences. The more talented the players are you are facing, the more impact those mistakes will have, especially in terms of consequences. Germany had full internationals making Brazil's full internationals pay for their mistakes in those 30 minutes. MK Dons players of varying reputations (regional, national, and international) turned a fully rested squad containing many full internationals (albeit "2nd tier) inside out in the 19 minutes during the 2nd half of the match. Should that be happening?

Great points about rough starts and early season losses before getting things right. I know it is a long season. It's always been my intention that say that United need more than star players with fancy reputations to come into the squad. I want players on my team who are willing to give everything for the shirt, even if they don't have the best reputation. The players let the fans down immensely because there still is no reason for the elementary, youth league errors to result in their consequences. For example, if I make a crappy pass and give it away to the opposition in a critical area, I should have the skill to stop them with my defensive skills. Allowing a player to dribble through three players before slotting it home past Man United's Number 1 keeper is a travesty that simply shouldn't happen.

I hope the result of this shambolic loss is that the United Board, the United players, and the United coaching staff fully understand that there is gobs and gobs of work to do and personal pride and personal arrogance needs to squashed like cockroaches hanging out at greasy dive restaurant. Bomb the place and exterminate every roach feasting on the excesses at Old Trafford and Carrow Road. This transfer window is too late to really do much with the process, especially at the pace Ed Woodward works. Well, get started for January.

I'm not turning my back on United, but I am spitting venom at the mentality those players on the pitch exhibited last night. Also, I am delighted that MK Dons has a Giant killing to add to their emerging history for their club. The effort and pride those players put in were greatly rewarded and I hope they can savor this victory for many years. Underdogs winning over the Alphas is always a delightful thing to cherish. Selfishly, I just wish it happened to another club.

Also, I can only imagine that Moyes must silently be feeling some gratifying satisfaction that King Louie is struggling so mightily because it meant his own words of warning weren't simply a matter of making excuses to give himself more time at Old Trafford. The longer Van Gaal struggles, the more it seems that Moyes indeed might have been the right man for the job and, in turn, reinforce that Sir Alex was right in choosing Moyes to succeed his reign.

[WLKRAS]

Copper, I'm not excusing United's perfomance, it was poor. And no, a team like United should not concede three in 19 minutes against a lower league team. At the same time, it felt very much like a team getting used to it's new tactics. For instance the second goal, Evans gets pulled out of position to the right back, leaving Anderson to cover at centre back. That's a recipe for disaster. Same for the fourth goal where Peireira is one the defenders to get beaten, trying to cover from midfield.

I think the difference, if you compare United to Holland at the world cup (with the same tactics), United lack a breaker in midfield. The Nigel de Jong/Daley Blind role, offering not much offensively, but covering the defence where needed.

And yes, it's not all about personnel, some of the tackles to try and stop the third and fourth goals were decidedly halfhearted and the players will have to look at themselves for maybe taking things for granted.

I am not a United fan, but my wife is, so I show more than a passing interest in the team.

[tenthreeleader]

I am delighted that MK Dons has a Giant killing to add to their emerging history for their club.

Most of MK Dons' history is as Wimbledon. There is no 'emergence' about it.

Also, I can only imagine that Moyes must silently be feeling some gratifying satisfaction that King Louie is struggling so mightily because it meant his own words of warning weren't simply a matter of making excuses to give himself more time at Old Trafford. The longer Van Gaal struggles, the more it seems that Moyes indeed might have been the right man for the job and, in turn, reinforce that Sir Alex was right in choosing Moyes to succeed his reign.

From day one, David Moyes was the wrong man for the job. Van Gaal put out an experimental team last night, for whatever reason. And as sometimes happens in football, he was punished for it. The difference between Van Gaal and Moyes is that Van Gaal has succeeded in the game in ways Moyes has not. Moyes wouldn't have experimented. His team would have lumped the ball to the byline and crossed and still lost. Van Gaal was man enough to try, and is taking his lumps for it.

I'm not defending United's performance. It was pathetic. But to find the rotten apples, you have to dig through the barrel and Van Gaal has certainly done this. The need for competent defenders is absolutely paramount now and perhaps it did take this kind of embarrassment for it to become plain.

I tell my own players that if they are going to make mistakes they should be aggressive mistakes instead of mental errors. United's play was littered with mental errors yesterday and as a result we now know which players should no longer wear the shirt. It was stated yesterday that to be a United fan now is to be a real United fan -- when they've just been humiliated by a team that has no business beating them.

[tenthreeleader]

And today's Rather Amazing Statistic, as provided by espnfc.com:

United have produced two great generations of youngsters -- the "Busby Babes" in the 1950s and "Fergie's Fledglings" in the 1990s -- and are on an unbroken run of 3,704 games, dating back to 1937, when a youth-team product has been involved in their matchday squad.

[CFuller]

Impressive, but it's surely not going to continue for much longer now that we've taken Welbeck off your hands?

It is sad that Manchester United - a club so renowned for producing great youngsters - no longer have an established first-teamer from Manchester in their ranks. There's Tyler Blackett, perhaps, but I highly doubt he'll get too many more opportunities if Marcos Rojo is granted a work permit.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the way football is nowadays, especially at the very highest level.

[tenthreeleader]

That was the point of the article. It was about Mike Phelan saying United are losing their identity. Frankly, I wouldn't want to be the manager who ends that string -- I'm too much of a traditionalist.

[WLKRAS]

Do Fletcher and Evans not count as youth team products? I know they're not English, but they came through the academy didn't they?

[tenthreeleader]

They do, but the new signings may put their places in doubt.

[WLKRAS]

Would imagine they'd still be in the squad tho

[Balthazars]

They do, but the new signings may put their places in doubt.

With the lack of defenders, I'm pretty sure Evans will at least make the bench. Fletcher is well-liked, but he is the definition of 'workhorse', and there may not be room for him in the squad once they try to fit in all their attacking players.

So what formation will United play after the international break? Given their lopsided defensive options, 3 big-name strikers, 2 big name attacking midfielders, surely 3-5-2 is not going to be sustainable? Probably something more like 4-1-3-2, with Herrera/Carrick as the holding midfielder, Di Maria/Mata/Rooney as the attacking three, and RVP and Falco up front?

[WLKRAS]

Van Gaal's favoured system has always been 4-3-3, so I'd expect something like De Gea; Rafael, Jones/Smalling/Evans, Rojo, Shaw; Herrera/Carrick, Di Maria, Mata; RvP, Rooney, Falcao

[BenArsenal]

Anybody home?

[WLKRAS]

Helllloo?

[tenthreeleader]

That was Manchester By-God United. Ruthless.

Carry on.

[BenArsenal]

Still early days yet, but I think we're gonna have a damn good fight on our hands. Chelsea and Man City are still favourites of course, but Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd will run them close. And for one of them it will end in tears and fifth place. It's anybody's game yet.

Personally I hope Arsenal don't capitulate like we always do. Last season was genuinely a missed chance given the collapse of Man Utd. Now that they're back (sorta) we really have to watch out backs.

[Balthazars]

Still early days yet, but I think we're gonna have a damn good fight on our hands. Chelsea and Man City are still favourites of course, but Liverpool, Arsenal and Man Utd will run them close. And for one of them it will end in tears and fifth place. It's anybody's game yet.

Personally I hope Arsenal don't capitulate like we always do. Last season was genuinely a missed chance given the collapse of Man Utd. Now that they're back (sorta) we really have to watch out backs.

I think it's still a bit early to call United as 'back' - I'll wait until they take apart a team better than QPR - but they certainly have some offensive firepower now. If they can use them all properly they'll be dangerous.

Chelsea already look like running away with it. Credit to Mourinho, he went out early and splashed the cash to fix the main problem (scoring goals). Fabregas of course was going to do well (oh how I wish Arsene would 'stockpile' players, just to stop him going to a rival), but Costa has done very well to hit the ground running. City look so-so, but they tend to hit their stride a bit later in the season as well. Liverpool do indeed appear to be having some 'trying to integrate all these new guys at once' problems, which isn't really that unexpected, and their defence still looks a little suspect. Arsenal has started very badly, hopefully this means there won't be the usual downturn in form around the November. Very little cohesion, especially offensively, and we're shipping silly goals (conceeded with the opponent's first shot on target in all 4 league games so far). Hasn't helped trying to play to a new striker with Giroud bajanxed, but we need to click soon or risk being left behind.

Overall though, should be an open season. Exciting. Or nerve-shredding. Or both.

[chesterfan2]

Overall though, should be an open season. Exciting. Or nerve-shredding. Or both.

You mean unless Chelsea run away with it, I take it ??? City vs Chelsea on Sunday should begin to tell us if this is going to be exciting or just a procession

[WLKRAS]

Chelsea will run away with it, providing Costa stays fit. Him and Fabregas have got a good thing going on

[mark wilson27]

Gentlemen don't forget to your predictions in

[sherm]

Mike Dean ruining a perfectly good game with his incessant need to give a yellow card for every tackle. Disgraceful performance. Cost City the game with a ridiculous red card, and handed Chelsea an undeserved win. It's reason like this why I cannot and will not defend a referee. I understand it's a difficult job but it's not that hard that they need to be totally useless. Very very upset and ready to rant, and certainly have no respect for Mike Dean...

[Bagpuss]

Er it was a draw

second yellow for the red was deserved too

[Balthazars]

I have to admit I find much joy in seeing Liverpool and United struggle early on this season. As usual, every pundit and his dog wants to stick the boot into Wenger and Arsenal, labeling us all kinds of awful, useless and destined for failure. Yet despite one very awful performance away at Dortmund, we're doing okay (not brilliant, but okay). United, managed apparently by some sort of genius, clairvoyant manager just coughed up a 3-1 advantage in less than half an hour. Sure, the penalties were soft as heck, but there are major issues when you concede 4 goals in such a manner. The United of old is gone, and it's not coming back particularly easily.

Liverpool are also indeed seeing that selling your best player, buying lots of replacements, and also dealing with added European football is no easy feat. It's so interesting seeing Rodgers now use the excuse about how it's 'so hard' due to the reduced preparation time when playing Saturday-Tuesday-Saturday. To me, all it reinforces is actually how fortunate Arsenal have been to have had Wenger through a difficult period when the club was adjusting. Sure, his stubborn ways have potentially cost the team winning a few more trophies here or there, but it just shows that achieving the kind of consistency he has managed is amazing.

Also, listening to Pellegrini blast Chelsea as playing like a 'small club' was pretty hilarious. It's true to an extent, but Mourinho does it because he knows it works, although he's also a huge hypocrite because he gets upset when other clubs play that way against Chelsea. But it was pretty darned amusing. Chelsea though, strengthen their odds of running away with it.

[copperhorse21]

Balth: While I've been critical of Wenger's transfer policies in the past, I will say I respect the consistency. He seems to stay the same, but the game around him changes. I know he's adapted, but to convey a sense of same-ness is impressive. Watching the other clubs struggle is frustrating, but one thing becomes very clear, in the age of agents and transfer frenzy, it's difficult to stay at the top. However, this also just makes me marvel at the wondrous things Sir Alex was able to do at Old Trafford. Teams beat players...still. And it's refreshing and frustrating at the same time.

[BenArsenal]

I think it's still a bit early to call United as 'back'

Well, looks like you're right and I spoke too soon...

[sherm]

Agreed, it was a yellow card tackle..first one wasnt, at all. Also, costa is a nasty piece of work, he should have gone for raising his hands..we had a stonewall penalty on toure turned down..just one of many poor decisions. Chelsea seem to be everyones favoured team at the minute, and they are a huge threat. On the plus side, what a superb professional frank lampard is..phenomenal! and mangala and kompany look a beast of a central defensive pairing...

[chesterfan2]

YESSSSSSSSSS !,, Only just down off cloud 9 now.

Chester 2-1 Wrexham, with a winning goal 4 seconds from the end of injury time. It, quite seriously, does not get better than that.

[Terk]

*taps mic*

*is this thing on?*

[tenthreeleader]

It's the Semi-Annual Appearance of the FMS Mod Emeritus!

Hey, fella, how you doing?

[Balthazars]

*taps mic*

*is this thing on?*

It's like you're addicted to us! You keep on saying you're giving us up for good, but you keep on coming back!

[BenArsenal]

*taps mic*

*is this thing on?*

Hello Sir. Nice to see you.

How are things?

[tenthreeleader]

He hasn't come back.

[HorusFM]

I think Terk sits in a bunker like on Lost. The computer blinks every six months, with a direct line to the forums;

> FM FORUMS

.....

Please input generic greeting to remind all you're still alive....

> *taps mic*

> *is this thing on?*

MESSAGE SENT - PLEASE CHECK BACK IN SIX MONTHS.

[copperhorse21]

Hey, my wife found this and I just want to brag that Man United are finally topping a table even more important than busting records for transfer window spending... it's the injury league table! Where's Mourinho? Probably another sign of how he's a master of the dark arts. http://injuryleague.com/injury-league/

[chesterfan2]

I think Terk sits in a bunker like on Lost. The computer blinks every six months, with a direct line to the forums;

> FM FORUMS

.....

Please input generic greeting to remind all you're still alive....

> *taps mic*

> *is this thing on?*

MESSAGE SENT - PLEASE CHECK BACK IN SIX MONTHS.

So we can expect the next missive on 22nd March 2015 then ??????

[mark wilson27]

Dont forget ya predictions gentlemen..

[Terk]

Still here.

[chesterfan2]

Is it March already ???????

[BenArsenal]

Is it March already ???????

Time flies, doesn't it?

[Balthazars]

Is it March already ???????

Terk has time machine confirmed.

[mistahc]

Sorry I've not be around much guys, but finally get married on Friday.

After the honeymoon I have a bit of time off so hopefully will get a bit of story-writing in.

We moved into our new house 6 weeks ago and I have a cunning plan with the workshop in turning it into a bar I can sit and write in, which will hopefully keep me busy through the winter.

[copperhorse21]

Congratulations mistahc! I wish you the very best!

[chesterfan2]

Congrats indeed, mistahc, all the luck in the future to you and your good lady !, and have a stupendous day on Friday. I suspect we will all raise a glass, or perhaps even two, in your honour.

[mark wilson27]

Congrats mistahc for Friday, hope the day goes well and you don't get too drunk lol... Just remember in your speech to mention how good the bridesmaids look, you'll get in trouble if you forget that

[Balthazars]

Congratulations mistahc, and all the best for the big day! It's a lot of work setting up the big day, but it's well worth it - make sure you enjoy! Married life is tough (about 6 months into it myself) but extremely worthwhile and enjoyable!