No way to know which Brexit scenario occurs in the game after all...???

[Pantelas]

Hey guys, I thought so far that Brexit was determined when a new game starts, so because I don't want a hard brexit to ruin my long-term llm save, what I did was saved the game, went on holiday, and waited for the scenario to trigger...

In one save that I progressed on holiday, a soft brexit did happen in 2021. So I decided to go back and start with the SAME save game, expecting the same outcome....Well, guess what, a hard brexit (work permit for everyone) triggered in November '18!!!.... I definitely don't want to play with that scenario, but I don't want to remove the brexit outcome all together....

 

Is there a way in a save game to determine the brexit scenario about to triggering?...or even the possible date. I don't want to play for 3 in-game years and then facing the worst possible scenario. This shouldn't be so random...

[KlaaZ]

There is not (because it is random, after all). Nobody knows how or when Brexit is going to pan out. 

[Pantelas]

But for LLM players, different brexit scenarios as they are coded in the game have a massive impact on game experience! It's like having easy/normal/hard mode. When a fact like this affects game experience so much, there should be at least some structure - lets say, a predetermined brexit scenario AS SOON AS you start a new game, so that you can fast forward and check if this will ruin your game or not. 

 

Don't get me wrong, if this was hard-coded, then I'd say, fair enough, I will play with the option the developers gave me. But to have so much randomness (in date/type of brexit) feels like I'm gambling when I start a long save. 

 

 

[CFuller]

22 minutes ago, Pantelas said:

But for LLM players, different brexit scenarios as they are coded in the game have a massive impact on game experience! It's like having easy/normal/hard mode. When a fact like this affects game experience so much, there should be at least some structure - lets say, a predetermined brexit scenario AS SOON AS you start a new game, so that you can fast forward and check if this will ruin your game or not. 

Don't get me wrong, if this was hard-coded, then I'd say, fair enough, I will play with the option the developers gave me. But to have so much randomness (in date/type of brexit) feels like I'm gambling when I start a long save. 

Here's the thing: we're almost three years down the line and still don't know which form of Brexit (if any) will become reality. There are so many possibilities that giving you the option to choose exactly which one you want realistically just isn't feasible.

Also, bear in mind that a 'hard Brexit' won't necessarily ruin everybody's save game. Indeed, some users - whether they voted either way or not - might relish the extra challenge that it might bring in a British-based career. As for those who never manage in Britain, I'd imagine Brexit would have very little impact on their game experience.

[Pantelas]

7 minutes ago, CFuller said:

 There are so many possibilities that giving you the option to choose exactly which one you want realistically just isn't feasible.

But having a few of those options coded in the game and activating one of them in a random date (year 1 to year 5!) makes this a frustrating game experience, at least for me. It STILL is a game. I don't want to play for 5 years until i know which of the scenarios the developers coded into the game will activate. I'm not talking as a manager in a random country, but a LLM manager. It's not like all the random funny things in the game like the  world cup changing a country due to protests. That won't affect game experience.

Within a game, it doesn't make any sense to feel the same uncertainty as in reality regarding brexit, if anyone playing LLM in England enjoys this randomness, please feel free to comment.

[Muttley84]

3 hours ago, Pantelas said:

Within a game, it doesn't make any sense to feel the same uncertainty as in reality regarding brexit, if anyone playing LLM in England enjoys this randomness, please feel free to comment.

So what you're saying is that FM is to close to reality in this aspect? Oh, the irony...

[Snorks]

8 hours ago, Pantelas said:

But having a few of those options coded in the game and activating one of them in a random date (year 1 to year 5!) makes this a frustrating game experience, at least for me. It STILL is a game. I don't want to play for 5 years until i know which of the scenarios the developers coded into the game will activate. I'm not talking as a manager in a random country, but a LLM manager. It's not like all the random funny things in the game like the  world cup changing a country due to protests. That won't affect game experience.

Within a game, it doesn't make any sense to feel the same uncertainty as in reality regarding brexit, if anyone playing LLM in England enjoys this randomness, please feel free to comment.

Ohhh the irony lol...you sound a bit like a British politician. If only they had an editor!

Toi be honest though, whenever I've run a LLaMa save the foreign players weren't really on my radar at all anyway, so Brexite had minimal effect. Just how low a LLM are you that Brexit and foreign player rules affect you so badly?

 

[WorcesterLegend]

First of all and most importantly: brexit doesn't affect llm much, it only really affects championship sides (the good way), some league 1 teams (also the good way) and the premier (good/bad depending on outcome)

Second: llm that gets affected actually benefits as work permits in most common outcomes are wage based so is easy to get foreigns a wp

And for last: this is kinda real, brexit has to affect football sooner or later, don't think that guardiola or klopp will just say "screw this" and press a reset buttom or just go to another league (this last one is possible, but it really gonna depend on how much rebuild they'll have to do with thier squads), managers will have to adapt, like it or not, first time i got a hard brexit i was kinda pissed since it got me by surprise and that save ia still active for me being my most succesful save, don't just think that a simple rule change will destroy your save, give that new rule set at least a season or two, it could very well make the game a lil bit more interesting, on top of that, who knows if before brexit actually affects football we get some silly new rule where teams have to role 4 homegrown in starting XI to help the national team to develop talent? Will that ruin FM even if thats what the real deal in that hipotetic future? I always ask myself that anytime someone's save gets "ruined" by brexit.

[karanhsingh]

Guys when is Brexit supposed to happen in the game? I am at the end of 2019 and no news yet.

[Spurs08]

FM is a simulation. It's always going to try and include the bits that make things harder. You can't turn off Brexit any more than you can turn off injuries or the offside rule - adapting to it is part of being a manager. And being able to effectively choose your Brexit would unbalance things even more, since you'd know what was going to happen and plan accordingly while the AI teams wouldn't be able to.

[Saintmat]

6 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

Guys when is Brexit supposed to happen in the game? I am at the end of 2019 and no news yet.

In my save it only kicked in towards the end of 3rd season, so 2021.

First sign I got of it wasn't until towards end of 2nd season.

[Pantelas]

14 hours ago, Snorks said:

Just how low a LLM are you that Brexit and foreign player rules affect you so badly?

 

It affects a LLM save in the long term, as WorcesterLegend said, going from the Championship to the Premiership. If it is a hard brexit, then you'll struggle to survive in the Premiership if you ever get there (that's what happened on my last save in FM18), if it's a soft brexit or no brexit, it won't really matter much, it can even be beneficial. I don't really care if it's a struggle, what I do care is the random date it is triggered. I even have a long save in FM19 that brexit never happened, and every single year there's the news item of "UK will not be leaving the EU".

 

6 hours ago, Spurs08 said:

FM is a simulation. It's always going to try and include the bits that make things harder. You can't turn off Brexit any more than you can turn off injuries or the offside rule - adapting to it is part of being a manager. And being able to effectively choose your Brexit would unbalance things even more, since you'd know what was going to happen and plan accordingly while the AI teams wouldn't be able to.

My fellow spurs fan, it's different to turn off injuries or the offside rule...these are fundamental. But what about the developers giving an option to mask attributes or not? That does change game experience doesn't it? Or adding key staff, or how about the official transfer data update, which has players transferred in the January transfer window from the start of your game if you choose to? Those are all unrealistic options in a simulation game. 

[WorcesterLegend]

hace 1 hora, Pantelas dijo:

It affects a LLM save in the long term

As i said, it affects it but not much, reaching championship makes it a lil harder but not by much, i spent 4 seasons in championship (promoted as champion) and took 4 seasons reach a european competition, all of this with a hard brexit, it only delays success by a season at most and mess a lil with your available pool of players

[samuelawachie]

8 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

Guys when is Brexit supposed to happen in the game? I am at the end of 2019 and no news yet.

You have to wait till May. She's determined to deliver Brexit. (;

[Snorks]

10 hours ago, karanhsingh said:

Guys when is Brexit supposed to happen in the game? I am at the end of 2019 and no news yet.

Around the same time it happens in real life I believe ;-)

[99]

I always had the impression that any given Brexit outcome was coded right on the beginning of the save, therefore you could see it by holidaying into the future and then go back to actually start playing.

If that's not the case, well, props for realism, tho I admit I was one of the persons who tried to see the outcome before actually playing (and never got it different, certainly a coincidence).

[Nobby_McDonald]

Brexit is happening on my FM2018 save at the end of the 2018/9 season. I have the 17 foreign player in registered squads Brexit.

[Tom8983]

On 19/05/2019 at 17:42, Pantelas said:

It's like having easy/normal/hard mode.

It's not though, because all the other teams are affected the same way as you are. Sure you might have difficulty finding or affording high enough quality players, but so will all the other teams around you so it'll still be a level playing field.

[sporadicsmiles]

On 20/05/2019 at 18:28, Pantelas said:

My fellow spurs fan, it's different to turn off injuries or the offside rule...these are fundamental. But what about the developers giving an option to mask attributes or not? That does change game experience doesn't it? Or adding key staff, or how about the official transfer data update, which has players transferred in the January transfer window from the start of your game if you choose to? Those are all unrealistic options in a simulation game.  

Turning attribute masking off is definitely changing the game, in a way that strongly favours the player. This is basically removing scouting from the game, which I would say is pretty fundamental to the game. Adding key staff makes up for lack of research for low rep nations, or for add-on databases that extend lower leagues further down the pyramid. It just saves time on recruiting your own staff. These, by the way, are not reasonable comparisons.

Not knowing how Brexit is going to pan out is exactly like real life. It is probably the most realistic thing in FM right now. Why should there be an option to turn it off? It would be like turning off the EU agreement. Or turning off work permits. Or turning off the World Cup. You know Brexit will happen, and you should just plan according to the worst case scenario. And I wish the British public could be as annoyed by Brexit in real life as you are about it in the game. I would love to find a way to just turn it off.

[AIK]

There's obviously different opinions on this. So why not make everyone happy? Let us choose: Soft, Hard, No or Random.

[wattzy]

On 02/07/2019 at 11:34, AIK said:

There's obviously different opinions on this. So why not make everyone happy? Let us choose: Soft, Hard, No or Random.

Here come the 'BuT tHaT iSn'T rEaLiStIc OuR cOuNtRy Is A mEsS' comments

[99]

Bottom line, this will only be solved when Brexit actually happens and we know de facto what rules will be in place.

At the moment is a pain in the a**, but Brexit happens a season or two upon the game start so in case the user finds it totally umbearable, either start a new save or resign the current club and find job in another league.

[DementedHammer]

5 hours ago, 99 said:

Bottom line, this will only be solved when Brexit actually happens and we know de facto what rules will be in place.

At the moment is a pain in the a**, but Brexit happens a season or two upon the game start so in case the user finds it totally umbearable, either start a new save or resign the current club and find job in another league.

Or holiday for a few years and start your career once a favourable Brexit has been announced. 

[Nobby_McDonald]

I've read that Brexit rules are decided when you create your game. Holidaying to a 'favourable' Brexit may mean creating a few saves.

[jwchriste]

30 minutes ago, Nobby_McDonald said:

I've read that Brexit rules are decided when you create your game. Holidaying to a 'favourable' Brexit may mean creating a few saves.

Isn't this the OP's original complaint - he did create a save, sim it until Brexit, got a soft Brexit, then re-started with the same save he created but ended up with a hard Brexit the second time 'round.

@Pantelas, are you sure you simmed all the way to the actual Brexit?  I know I've received emails months after the original Brexit announcement where it said something about requiring work permits, etc., etc.  But, that wasn't the actual Brexit and a month or two later I received the official Brexit result of the UK not leaving the EU at all.  Just wondering if you stopped simming too early your first time.