Where did the German Regional Divisions go???

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

i read the thread, i just basically saying they didnt remove the divisions they just sorted them out. stupid!

Which part of "FM 08 had it right" don't you understand? Go start up FM08, go on holiday for a season and look at the German divisions. You'll see all 4 tiers are there, and they are "sorted out". They DID take the 4th tier away in FM09, and if you don't understand that please don't call other people stupid. Pot, kettle, etc...

[jamboblue]

dont know if this was discussed before because i couldnt be bothered reading all the posts but the regioal leagues have been combined to create a new 3rd bundesliga and as fm only ever had 3 levels of the german pyramid anyway they have not removed any leagues

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

The new Regionalliga was not proper implemented into 2008 and a weird mix between professional, semi-professional and amateur clubs. I guess that was one of the reasons to skip it. Amateur football is something that is not implemented in a realistic way into the game. Hopefully this will come in one of the next versions as it would add a lot to the game. But for now I can live with it.

It wasn't perfect but far better than what we have now. What issues did you encounter with the amateur clubs?

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

dont know if this was discussed before because i couldnt be bothered reading all the posts but the regioal leagues have been combined to create a new 3rd bundesliga and as fm only ever had 3 levels of the german pyramid anyway they have not removed any leagues

Oh for crying out loud. Just read two post above yours. It doesn't help anybody to clutter this thread with posts if you can't be bothered to read it first. You're wrong, FM08 had 4 levels of the pyramid, but it took a season to take effect.

[DJ]

I loved playing amateur clubs

[Svenc]

Maybe some of the officials can confirm this, but I've heard a fourth tier was never supposed to be in 08 in the first place, but somehow ended up being there anyways, maybe just because of the restructuring. That sounds weird, but unless somebody can confirm or deny,

that's pretty much all there is to tell at the moment.

That said, Football Manager makes me wish I was more into English football anyway, considering how many tiers are being implemented into the game. It'd be ****ing incredible to be able to manage some local teams that are playing 5th tier of German football as we speak. But then there are countries that don't have single league in the game yet at all.

[KUBI]

It wasn't perfect but far better than what we have now. What issues did you encounter with the amateur clubs?

Amateur clubs have just amateur contracts. Every player could leave your team at any time and you can only offer amateur contracts.

That's okay, when all teams in a division or league have the same status, but in FM2008 it was a mix.

[edwingray]

Oh for crying out loud. Just read two post above yours. It doesn't help anybody to clutter this thread with posts if you can't be bothered to read it first. You're wrong, FM08 had 4 levels of the pyramid, but it took a season to take effect.

I can understand your frustration, but maybe this an explanation.

At the beginning of FM 2008 there were 36 teams in the Regionalligen North and South. After one season the top ten in these leagues formed the 3rd division, being replaced on the computer by 20 other random teams.

It is possible that SI don't have the infrastructure in place to be able to adequately research the 20 new teams and decided that it would be better to leave them out for one issue until they can be properly researched. I would imagine they will make a return at some point and you were just a bit unfortunate this time.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

I can understand your frustration, but maybe this an explanation.

At the beginning of FM 2008 there were 36 teams in the Regionalligen North and South. After one season the top ten in these leagues formed the 3rd division, being replaced on the computer by 20 other random teams.

It is possible that SI don't have the infrastructure in place to be able to adequately research the 20 new teams and decided that it would be better to leave them out for one issue until they can be properly researched. I would imagine they will make a return at some point and you were just a bit unfortunate this time.

It's possible, but even without well researched teams, the restructured Regional Divisions were fun to play in FM08. Of course people would be disappointed if nothing would have been improved, but I don't think stripping the tier is making the situation any better.

We're still just speculating. What actually IS the reason for this, SI?

[Woodg SI]

Last year's game had the top three levels active at the start of the game and so does FM 2009, so nothing has changed as we fully represent the top three levels as we have done for a number of years. We just don't have the resources available in terms of coding, testing and research to fully support the fourth level of football.

Last year we included the expansion the following year because if you were managing a team that got moved to the fourth level, it would have been unfair for you to get the sack simply due to restructuring rather than relegation.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

Thanks for an official word on this. It seems odd though that you went through the trouble of including the 4th tier in FM08 and then strip it, because most of the work was already done. Yeah, there were some issues that I would have liked to see fixed, but all in all it was better than what we have now. Is there a chance the 4th tier is making a comeback, even if it isn't as well researched and tested as the others?

[DJ]

A word of support for TADWs request

I'd love the return of the 4th tier. As England based fans can undoubtedly testify, there's nothing like playing in your country of residence, in the leagues you follow the closest - and to be able to get succes coming from the absolute lowest level possible.

[buttes]

SI manages to feature the Swedish fourth division which has many more teams, and Sweden is a country 1/8 the size of Germany. I don't see how "lack of resources" can be a valid excuse here.

[Swindon69]

i read the thread, i just basically saying they didnt remove the divisions they just sorted them out. stupid!

In FM08 in the second year the German 3rd |Division came into being - at the same time the three regional leagues also came into being and were playable, they are now not playable in this new version so there are three less leagues in Germany.

Simple enough for you ?

[DJ]

SI manages to feature the Swedish fourth division which has many more teams, and Sweden is a country 1/8 the size of Germany. I don't see how "lack of resources" can be a valid excuse here.

Well, Woodg works for SI, he's rather likely in a better position than you are to say if SI have the resources to do this

[buttes]

Sure, and I'm in a position to say that I don't find that excuse particularly plausible.

[Normthebarman]

Found this out the other day, and is one of the reasons why I'm not buying the new one.

Granted, my laptop would struggle with the new 3D (probably would've needed an upgrade), but if I can't go my beloved Null Drei (SV Babelsberg for the un-educated) then I'll stick with FM08.

I know the research would've been tricky but a simple trawl through club squads on the web would suffice, with random stats generated. It's not like I'm going to say "Ah, but our captain is well known for his passing but he's only got a 4" and "How can they rate the Kiel goalie with 17 aerial abilty, he's mince!" When you are that far down the ladder, name and positional accuracy are as much as you can hope for.

To be honest, since several teams in the Regionaligen are B teams for the 1. Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga anyway, surely the research is already being done for these teams?

[GerdMuller]

Wasnt there only the then 2 regional didvisions in 07 also. So a 3 tiered league structure it is in 07 and in 09. Would have loved to go LL with Germany but i can live with this. First thought 3rd league would also be out, which would really have bothered me a lot.

[sue_donym]

Have to say find this very disappointing. I also dont buy the lack of resources excuse when as other posters point out there is an equal or greater level of depth in other nations which are smaller and arguably more minor in a footballing sense. Have just started a new game in LLM in England with Germany, Italy and Spain leagues loaded and was looking forward to having a career in each country, working my way up from the bottom.

[Svenc]

Found this out the other day, and is one of the reasons why I'm not buying the new one.

Granted, my laptop would struggle with the new 3D (probably would've needed an upgrade), but if I can't go my beloved Null Drei (SV Babelsberg for the un-educated) then I'll stick with FM08.

I know the research would've been tricky but a simple trawl through club squads on the web would suffice, with random stats generated. It's not like I'm going to say "Ah, but our captain is well known for his passing but he's only got a 4" and "How can they rate the Kiel goalie with 17 aerial abilty, he's mince!" When you are that far down the ladder, name and positional accuracy are as much as you can hope for.

To be honest, since several teams in the Regionaligen are B teams for the 1. Bundesliga and 2.Bundesliga anyway, surely the research is already being done for these teams?

Well, we have no idea how many people the research team for Germany consists of. Again, I cannot confirm this, but from what I gathered it was rather small and only recently grew in size. One of the reasons could be that FM has never been that popular in Germany. What I can definitely confirm is that some (if not all) teams that didn't start third tier at the beginning of the game in FM08 either consisted of fantasy players, or the squads were outdated - I saw Henke who had long since returned to assist Hitzfeld again at Bayern still at the head of FC Saarbrücken, and so on.

I find it delighting that there's really small-ish clubs in the database though: a local club of a town of 2,000 is in the game with its correct kit and stadium name. Used to pick it for pre-season friendlies frequently.

Another disapointing aspect of this is that you aren't able to start with quite a few number of teams that all played their role in German football at some point. Whether in the West or the former East, many of those with European Cup and top-flight games under their belt, such as Magdeburg, Rot-Weiß Essen, Waldhof Mannheim, Sachsen Leipzig, SSV Ulm. But I guess this is an area that can only improve further, if there's still resources left, and with that I'm adressing the general number of leagues in the game. As said, there are countries that aren't in the game at all as of yet.

[Normthebarman]

Well, we have no idea how many people the research team for Germany consists of. Again, I cannot confirm this, but from what I gathered it was rather small and only recently grew in size. One of the reasons could be that FM has never been that popular in Germany. What I can definitely confirm is that some (if not all) teams that didn't start third tier at the beginning of the game in FM08 either consisted of fantasy players, or the squads were outdated - I saw Henke who had long since returned to assist Hitzfeld again at Bayern still at the head of FC Saarbrücken, and so on.

I find it delighting that there's really small-ish clubs in the database though: a local club of a town of 2,000 is in the game with its correct kit and stadium name. Used to pick it for pre-season friendlies frequently.

Another disapointing aspect of this is that you aren't able to start with quite a few number of teams that all played their role in German football at some point. Whether in the West or the former East, many of those with European Cup and top-flight games under their belt, such as Magdeburg, Rot-Weiß Essen, Waldhof Mannheim, Sachsen Leipzig, SSV Ulm. But I guess this is an area that can only improve further, if there's still resources left, and with that I'm adressing the general number of leagues in the game. As said, there are countries that aren't in the game at all as of yet.

1st bit in bold - Some of them were, but then it's the same for non-playable clubs who get promoted into the lower echelons of other leagues. Unless you mean these teams are like this at the start.

But even then, in FM07, Babelsberg were unplayable at the start but still had the correct players and manager. The only fault I can remember, which was included in 08 as well, was the stadium capacity for KarLi.

Don't get me wrong, it's impressive enough what SI have done in the past if the low number of researchers are the reason, but, hey, if I knew it was a problem, I'd have done it for them.

Although, it has to be said, the stats etc would have to be random as living in St Andrews kinda restricts the number of games I can get over to see.....

2nd bit in bold - On the plus side, it does mean BFC Stasi Cheats are confined to obvlivion....

Plus, if it operates like the English setup, then the teams who are in the Regionaliga Sued, Nord, and West at the moment (like the ones you mentioned) may get promoted to the 3. Bundesliga.

[GerdMuller]

Well, we have no idea how many people the research team for Germany consists of. Again, I cannot confirm this, but from what I gathered it was rather small and only recently grew in size. One of the reasons could be that FM has never been that popular in Germany. What I can definitely confirm is that some (if not all) teams that didn't start third tier at the beginning of the game in FM08 either consisted of fantasy players, or the squads were outdated - I saw Henke who had long since returned to assist Hitzfeld again at Bayern still at the head of FC Saarbrücken, and so on.

quote]

Research was really very poor. I wnated to start a game with Burghausen but just couldnt do it, because the squad had players in that had left at least a year before. The squad was not even an old one, it wa smixed of old and new players. Not the standard i expect from SI.

[Svenc]

Some of them were, but then it's the same for non-playable clubs who get promoted into the lower echelons of other leagues. Unless you mean these teams are like this at the start.

Well, what GerdMuller said, he's the bomber, he can be trusted. Another issue that appears to affect German clubs in general is that their reputation decreases quickly. At the start of the game Bremen, Hamburg, Bayern and Schalke have their rep set to "continental", but this won't last them long. Even with Bayern you'll notice their reputation will change to "national" rather early on. Whether those teams did well in international competitions as well as national or no doesn't seem to matter - on the contrary clubs from Spain or England who never even qualified for international competitions but have a short spell of success (two good seasons and successive top three finishes in their league for instance) may well be promoted to "continental" in the game. By 2010 there isn't a single Bundesliga club that has a reputation of anything higher than "national".

Actually, the same appears to apply for the Dutch Eredivisie. While in France OSC Lille reaching the UEFA cup may get them promoted "continental" immediately, by 2010 there isn't a single Dutch club that is ranked that high, neither Ajax nor PSV who both are at the start of the game in Summer 2007. And since you're from Scotland: what about Celtic and Rangers? This must affect transfers in some way or other, and maybe was done on purpose - namely that players would prefer big leagues to less-prolific ones, but I thought there was a league reputation setting in there somehow? All talking FM08, mind you. Might be in 09 as well, I cannot tell.

[Normthebarman]

Well, regarding Scotland, it would be correct for the F.O.D (Forces Of Darkness, Old Squirm, Bigot Brothers, Ugly Sisters, R*ngers and C*ltic) to only be National. The big European players only go there because of the guaranteed European football. If the clubs couldn't offer that, none of the big names would go. It's safe to say that pretty much every major team in Europe must love it if they get drawn to these two.

It is a bit of a shock that the German clubs have a lower rating though....

[Svenc]

Well, regarding Scotland, it would be correct for the F.O.D (Forces Of Darkness, Old Squirm, Bigot Brothers, Ugly Sisters, R*ngers and C*ltic) to only be National. The big European players only go there because of the guaranteed European football.

Actually, both Celtic and Rangers do start out with that high a reputation, but they're likely to loose it fast, as well as Bayern, Eindhoven, Ajax, or Schalke. There is already an *even higher* elite level of reputation being implented into the game only a few clubs appear to have. If you start a new game in 08 you'll notice these are United, Chelski, Milan, Inter, Madrid and Barcelona. As far as transfers are concerned: I thought there were roughly two factors taken into account for that, one being the team's reputation and the other being the corresponding league's reputation. I could be wrong though...

[glamdring]

I only discovered the delights of managing in Germany in FM08 having not done in previous versions (although, ironically, I screwed up my game setup and only included the Bundesliga 1 in my main game anyway) and was looking forward to managing in the newly expanded setup in FM09 so this is certainly a big disappointment and possibly one further reason for me to maybe not buy the game.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

To those that are saying the lack of resources isn't a good excuse considering the level of support for some arguably weaker countries, you have to take into account not just how strong the leagues are, but also the size of the market. Even though the German leagues are surely stronger than, say Sweden, I'd argue there are probably more customers wanting to play in the Swedish leagues than the German leagues.

It's a double-edged sword however; sure the market in Germany is small due to the lack of a license and because SI don't sell the game there, but by limiting the resources available the share will just get smaller and smaller. EA doesn't only have a license, they also cover the pyramid down to the 5th tier - a big selling point for Germans.

It seems like SI have all but given up on the German market, which I think is a bummer, because many Germans know that FM is the better game. The German language FM forum at meistertrainerforum.de has 3300 members, and the majority of them go out of their way every year to order the game in England or Holland. Granted, that's not a huge number of customers, but given that there's zero advertising and the game is virtually unavailable that's still impressive. With better support that number would increase because the number one complaint of EA customers is the lack of progress towards a realistic match engine in FIFA Manager, which is FM's forte. So even without license and having to order the game from another country, there's a sizable number of potential customers who would benefit if SI allocated more resources to the German leagues. The research isn't even the biggest problem, the German researcher is in touch with the community and there are enough volunteers to help out. Give us the league structure, and let the community take care of the data.

[Svenc]

EA doesn't only have a license, they also cover the pyramid down to the 5th tier - a big selling point for Germans.

Is that true? 5th tier? All twelve Oberligen? *faints* Last year Bright Future didn't even have the league restructuring in the game. But then SI normally wouldn't really have that in there either.

One thing I've been wondering is how researching the lower league teams in, say England works out anyway. With that big a player base, are SI able to find a dedicated group of people for a team each? Are there any random player stats involved? And what is the standard of research SI expect for a league to appear in the game?

[Nicsab]

Just opened the Editor and took a look at the better known Teams of the Germen Regional Divison in FM09. I have to say the Database is impressive. Most teams look about OK. Ofcourse there are some players missing from the the squads. Therefore I can't see the argument about lack of resources.

[jayahr]

Oh my god, I'm still waiting for the game to arrive (in Germany), so I couldn't notice before.

This really disappoints me and I'm gutted by the fact that SI did not drop a word about it. There may be arguments for removing the league, but it would just have been fair if SI had stated the removal somewhere before the release. Of course, this wouldn't have stopped me buying, it's just an issue of fairness where I really feel SI have not played fair

Also I find the argument given a bit weak. Being sacked for being relegated would just have been as fair as it is when playing any other lowest league in the game. And I'd rather have a dodgy 4th tier than none. It wasn't that bad in 07 for starters.

Btw the regional division has only very few amateurish teams in it. Seriously hope it will be back for FM10.

[Svenc]

Could do with a fifth tier, tbh. Maybe a more powerful editor. A poster of George Best shipping with each copy. And a win against Engerland tomorrow in Berlin.

[Svenc]

Well, so much for yesterday night.. Still counting on George Best.

Just opened the Editor and took a look at the better known Teams of the Germen Regional Divison in FM09. I have to say the Database is impressive. Most teams look about OK. Ofcourse there are some players missing from the the squads. Therefore I can't see the argument about lack of resources.

"Most teams look about ok" can mean anything. Haven't seen anything of FM09's database yet, maybe some more prolific teams from lower leagues got an overhaul as well.

[jayahr]

The database was sufficiently fine for me last year. I see no reason why to drop those leagues now (and again as any smallest improvement is advertised as a new feature I would also expect to get to know what has gone if as relevant as losing leagues).

The main bugger for me is that many of the 2nd teams are in the regional divisions. I always found them useless when not in a playable league. Especially as I never ever saw a 2nd team win promotion to a playable league. That means they are as good as useless as reserve teams

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

I agree, the database is good enough to keep the 4th tier around. So what else is using up these resources? I understand testing is a bit more involved, but is that enough to make it not worthwhile to re-introduce the Regional divisions?

[Ferrari312]

It's a shame - I had a great career game with Lubeck in FM08, taking them from the regionals, into the restructured Third Division and then up to the Bundesliga and reaching the UEFA Cup. I'd started unemployed but I was considering reuniting myself with them for FM09 - oh well, I guess it's back to unemployment once I get bored of my Liverpool save

[Swindon69]

I've enjoyed watching some of the big German clubs drop into the Regional leagues. Even better FC Bayern have just been relegated out of Reg Div South.

[DerMef]

We just don't have the resources available in terms of coding, testing and research to fully support the fourth level of football.

Maybe you should say that with "resources available in terms of research" you mean that you don't want to pay for research for the 4th level in a country where the game can not be released, because otherwise it makes it sound like we are at fault because we couldn't research those leagues which is not true.

Also, I don't see big problems with coding, because the code was in in the second season of FM08 so everything was practically already there.

It is possible that SI don't have the infrastructure in place to be able to adequately research the 20 new teams and decided that it would be better to leave them out for one issue until they can be properly researched. I would imagine they will make a return at some point and you were just a bit unfortunate this time.

The Regionalliga clubs are researched already. They are just not playable.

Amateur clubs have just amateur contracts. Every player could leave your team at any time and you can only offer amateur contracts.

That's okay, when all teams in a division or league have the same status, but in FM2008 it was a mix.

This has been fixed for FM09, German amateur clubs are now semi-amateur clubs.

I'd assume that the "new" 4th tier isn't included mainly because that would require research and a lot of info on the 5th tier to make the 4th tier playable.

That wouldn't be a big problem.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

Good to hear it from the horse's mouth. I've suspected that it's not the research arm that is at fault, because you guys have been doing a great job so far. Since the coding has basically been done, that only leaves testing as a possible resource issue, and I really wonder how much extra effort the 4th tier adds to the testing. To me it seems like someone in management just decided to go with 3 tiers like it has always been until fm08, simply because Germany is so low on the list of priorities that nobody even bothers to really look into the actual amount of resources required.

[bobatwal]

It just the German 4th tier, Dale you got to face facts now one really cares

[Swindon69]

Bring back the 4th tier.

[juvehearts]

The main & sole Reason I am not buying FM09.

My best mate got it on release date & the only thing noticeiable about the new game is that you can have a press conferance & watch the game in 3D.

To Take away the german Regional Division defeats the puropse of having the status of a sunday league manager for myself as it was the only proper place you could start out your football managing skills.

in italy it is different, the challenge is just the same but not as enjoyable IMO as taking Oggershiem all the way to the champion's league.

Im dissapointed that SI could'nt sort out a small detail with the GFA (no not the Glasgow FA) I think they dont realize how big a fanbase they have over in Germany.

FM08 All the way!

Juve

[gie]

...but apparently even the Indonesian league is more important.

*cough* I'm from Indonesia, and luckily it seems that sigames researcher notice that our league have been restructured this season. And now we have Super League as the highest division. Peace.

[ANDEHLSON]

*cough* I'm from Indonesia, and luckily it seems that sigames researcher notice that our league have been restructured this season. And now we have Super League as the highest division. Peace.

lol In Portugal they didnt even add the reserve league... (that is included in much crappier leagues) :|

[Matt ex SEGA]

Good to hear it from the horse's mouth. I've suspected that it's not the research arm that is at fault, because you guys have been doing a great job so far. Since the coding has basically been done, that only leaves testing as a possible resource issue, and I really wonder how much extra effort the 4th tier adds to the testing. To me it seems like someone in management just decided to go with 3 tiers like it has always been until fm08, simply because Germany is so low on the list of priorities that nobody even bothers to really look into the actual amount of resources required.

I don't know the reason but I'd wager Woodg has a good handle on it since he's run the research since the year dot.

I will ask for you though and try and find out if there's a chance of a return for future FM's. No promises.

The main & sole Reason I am not buying FM09.

My best mate got it on release date & the only thing noticeiable about the new game is that you can have a press conferance & watch the game in 3D.

Im dissapointed that SI could'nt sort out a small detail with the GFA (no not the Glasgow FA) I think they dont realize how big a fanbase they have over in Germany.

Juve

That "small detail" is that they have an exclusive license with EA. Feel free to call them up and mention your disappointment - we already did but given how simple you seem to think it should be, I guess we'll see how you go instead?

[jayahr]

I will ask for you though and try and find out if there's a chance of a return for future FM's. No promises.

That would be greatly appreciated

If the German head researcher feels there is no data issue which should be a reason to keep them out and as this goes in line with my own impression, I trust him enough to have a judgment which is as good as SI's there.

Please bring them back! And please don't try to sell this as a great new feature, because it was in there and taken out. Only EA do such things.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

I will ask for you though and try and find out if there's a chance of a return for future FM's. No promises.

Thanks, that's all we can ask for anyways.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

*cough* I'm from Indonesia, and luckily it seems that sigames researcher notice that our league have been restructured this season. And now we have Super League as the highest division. Peace.

Not to get this discussion off topic, but just to clarify: my comment was aimed at the demo release which came with an Indonesian quickstart but not a German one, so I didn't find out about the lack of the Regional Divisions until after I had bought the game (and fully expecting they'd be in). No offense to Indonesians, and I'm sure there's a sizable market, but it's a fairly telling sign of SI's level of commitment towards the German market.

[bitlos]

Not to get this discussion off topic, but just to clarify: my comment was aimed at the demo release which came with an Indonesian quickstart but not a German one, so I didn't find out about the lack of the Regional Divisions until after I had bought the game (and fully expecting they'd be in). No offense to Indonesians, and I'm sure there's a sizable market, but it's a fairly telling sign of SI's level of commitment towards the German market.

It's not just the German market, there seem to be several markets that SI are less commited to, like the Portugal (Reserve league missing, wrong Portuguese Cup structure and errors in the 2nd Division) and Poland (European qualification is delayed a season).

[Woodg SI]

There seems to be some need for clarification here for some reason.

Lots of Researchers want to add extra levels to their countries but currently our policy is not to add any new levels as there are costs we have to consider in terms of research, coding and testing. We already cover 100s of competitions which often need coding changes (and subsequent testing) every year which stretches these resources to the limit already.

Typically adding in new levels lower down involves regional leagues which can more than double the number of teams and leagues involved thus more than doubling the resources (this generally amounts to costs in money and time) needed for research, coding and testing. We have to draw the line somewhere and with a high reputation league like Germany three levels where we cannot release the game directly is a very good amount.

Only England, Italy and Scotland (this has always had 4 levels) have more represented levels than Germany. The vast majority of leagues have two levels and some that have been restructured or have been in CM/FM for many many years have three like Germany.

We'd love to add all kinds of levels and countries into the game but we have to know our limits in what we can and what we cannot do with the limited research, coding and testing resources that we have.

We consider every year what leagues and countries, if any, to add and we'll be doing so for FM 2010 too.

[The Amazing Dale Watkins]

There seems to be some need for clarification here for some reason.

Lots of Researchers want to add extra levels to their countries but currently our policy is not to add any new levels as there are costs we have to consider in terms of research, coding and testing. We already cover 100s of competitions which often need coding changes (and subsequent testing) every year which stretches these resources to the limit already.

Typically adding in new levels lower down involves regional leagues which can more than double the number of teams and leagues involved thus more than doubling the resources (this generally amounts to costs in money and time) needed for research, coding and testing. We have to draw the line somewhere and with a high reputation league like Germany three levels where we cannot release the game directly is a very good amount.

Only England, Italy and Scotland (this has always had 4 levels) have more represented levels than Germany. The vast majority of leagues have two levels and some that have been restructured or have been in CM/FM for many many years have three like Germany.

We'd love to add all kinds of levels and countries into the game but we have to know our limits in what we can and what we cannot do with the limited research, coding and testing resources that we have.

We consider every year what leagues and countries, if any, to add and we'll be doing so for FM 2010 too.

That would be an acceptable answer if FM08 didn't include 4 levels already. There's still a need for clarification because you're just giving a completely generic response that doesn't address the specific question of why you don't just leave in place what you had in FM08 and not worry about additional research (which is already adequate).