jayahr Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 That would be an acceptable answer if FM08 didn't include 4 levels already. !!!!!!!!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase1982 Posted November 26, 2008 Share Posted November 26, 2008 There seems to be some need for clarification here for some reason. Lots of Researchers want to add extra levels to their countries but currently our policy is not to add any new levels as there are costs we have to consider in terms of research, coding and testing. We already cover 100s of competitions which often need coding changes (and subsequent testing) every year which stretches these resources to the limit already. Typically adding in new levels lower down involves regional leagues which can more than double the number of teams and leagues involved thus more than doubling the resources (this generally amounts to costs in money and time) needed for research, coding and testing. We have to draw the line somewhere and with a high reputation league like Germany three levels where we cannot release the game directly is a very good amount. Only England, Italy and Scotland (this has always had 4 levels) have more represented levels than Germany. The vast majority of leagues have two levels and some that have been restructured or have been in CM/FM for many many years have three like Germany. We'd love to add all kinds of levels and countries into the game but we have to know our limits in what we can and what we cannot do with the limited research, coding and testing resources that we have. We consider every year what leagues and countries, if any, to add and we'll be doing so for FM 2010 too. It might just be me, but I'd prefer SI spent time and resources on increasing the levels and game content, rather than adding a pretty new skin or developing a lovely 3d match screen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayahr Posted November 27, 2008 Share Posted November 27, 2008 It might just be me, but I'd prefer SI spent time and resources on increasing the levels and game content, rather than adding a pretty new skin or developing a lovely 3d match screen. We are talking about very different coding departments there. No offense to Ter and the 3d coders but I wouldn't trust them to work on the AI as well as on what they are working on now. However I'm sure many people from Germany would be happy to work as betatesters for free if that caused the leagues to be reintroduced. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 It's a bit early, but any chance these leagues might make it in time for FM's next release? From then on it'd surely be just a matter of time until a fifth tier will be due and I'll be able to manage sides just a couple kilometres away from me. FM heaven, basically! It's an issue even for wannabe-managers of other clubs, as big parts of the fourth tier are made of the reserve squads of Bundesliga sides. In Germany, reserve squads don't compete in their very own reserve competitions, they compete in regular football leagues. Only that they're not allowed to promote higher than tier 3. While this is going to change rather sooner than later, right now it's only the reserves of Bayern, Stuttgart and Werder competing in 3. Bundesliga, the lowest level there is in FM09. That said, I'm still on FM08 and its four German tiers and six leagues compared to FM09's three tiers and three leagues respectively, so I'm fine, basically. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spurz123 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Mate, this thread's hadn't been posted in since November. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack_man Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Whats wrong with him bumping it to ask a question? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sthptngomad76 Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 Exactly. Better him doing a search and finding a relevant thread to post in then clogging up forums with duplicate threads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted April 18, 2009 Share Posted April 18, 2009 I'd sure hope so. What I find interesting is that the German Oberligen (5th tier) appear to be in the game in some loose form or other. If you click on an Oberliga club you'll notice via "breadcrumb navigation" (Europe->Germany->Club) that each Oberliga club appears to be related with the corresponding other clubs in the right ways. The data organization doesn't merely know about a thing that is supposed to be called "Oberliga" - even though it really isn't. It also lumps together the Oberliga clubs of each of the Oberligen accordingly. You'll see FC Homburg for instance being related to FK Pirmasens, Borussia Neunkirchen, Trier, Wirges etc.. The same seems to apply for other Oberligen as well. Makes you wonder whether this has got to do with the way SI determines clubs getting promoted from non-playable levels into those that are fully implemented into the game. My guess is that the research was hard to come by. That's not so surprising because they surrendered the German market to EA, so there are obviously much fewer people interested in doing data research for a game that few Germans even know exists. The situation becomes more dire every year, and while the German FA take the lion's share of the blame for that one (with their screwed up licensing), SI should at least make an effort to get the game back on the shelves there, even if they have to resort to fake club and player names. To some surprise, FM09 and FM Live got two very positive and big reviews in German's most popular PC gaming mag. When I mean "popular gaming mag" I don't mean any of the English video games press that sells in numbers far below 100,000 across the board, but a magazine that still sells pretty big, 200,000 issues and up. Apparently the corresponding editor liked FM this much that he convinced the editor in chief to grant space for reviews even though these games are really only available in Germany via import shops. Thought this is something note-worthy. Usually they don't do this at all. Also, I have long since convinced a load of people of FM's all too apparent qualities myself. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted April 21, 2009 Share Posted April 21, 2009 If you click on an Oberliga club you'll notice via "breadcrumb navigation" (Europe->Germany->Club) that each Oberliga club appears to be related with the corresponding other clubs in the right ways. The data organization doesn't merely know about a thing that is supposed to be called "Oberliga" - even though it really isn't. It also lumps together the Oberliga clubs of each of the Oberligen accordingly. You'll see FC Homburg for instance being related to FK Pirmasens, Borussia Neunkirchen, Trier, Wirges etc.. The same seems to apply for other Oberligen as well. Makes you wonder whether this has got to do with the way SI determines clubs getting promoted from non-playable levels into those that are fully implemented into the game. Here's to you a screenshot of what I'm talking about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
auberius Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 It's an issue even for wannabe-managers of other clubs, as big parts of the fourth tier are made of the reserve squads of Bundesliga sides. In Germany, reserve squads don't compete in their very own reserve competitions, they compete in regular football leagues. Only that they're not allowed to promote higher than tier 3. While this is going to change rather sooner than later, right now it's only the reserves of Bayern, Stuttgart and Werder competing in 3. Bundesliga, the lowest level there is in FM09. That said, I'm still on FM08 and its four German tiers and six leagues compared to FM09's three tiers and three leagues respectively, so I'm fine, basically. Much as I understand SI's position, I think this is the important issue; if there are reserve teams in the main competition, it needs to be available to allow reserve teams to get games. I've pretty much stopped playing Italy because of the inherent lack of reserve football and I've never gone to Germany for the same reason, whereas I'd play in France because the CFA is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Much as I understand SI's position, I think this is the important issue; if there are reserve teams in the main competition, it needs to be available to allow reserve teams to get games. I've pretty much stopped playing Italy because of the inherent lack of reserve football and I've never gone to Germany for the same reason, whereas I'd play in France because the CFA is there. I agree it's an issue, and SI certainly do themselves. That said, this begs another question: where'd you stop if you start? Most reserves of top tier clubs are playing fourth tier football as we speak. They're competing in either Regionalliga Nord, Regionalliga West and Regionalliga South. Below that, reserves mostly compete in even lower levels. The ammount of resources and research required grows with every tier you'd add in Germany. Exponentially: Tier three consists of but 3. Bundesliga. For tier four it's already three leagues. Tier 5 consists of 12 (!) leagues respectively. And from there on..... well. Still it'd be nice to have at least tier 4 back in the game, which would have a good number of top level and thus most popular clubs covered. What I'm really hoping for in the long run is a far more flexible editing tool. Back in the days of On The Ball I edited all of the 36 "faked" clubs in the game before I even bothered to start playing. I can easily see loads of people just waiting for the tools to add levels and leagues to their game, even if the majority of data wouldn't be the most accurate at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stampler Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Here's to you a screenshot of what I'm talking about. wo hast du die coolen titlebars her? ich meine, 1.bundesliga ok, aber EINTRACHT TRIER??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wegason Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 Having played in Germany in FM08 I'm glad I didn't buy FM09 as I'd of missed the German regional divisions! Currently playing FM08 with Fortuna, really enjoying it, currently in 2. Bundesliga. It is annoying that I'll never get players into the German national team (I appreciate that this is not SI's fault) but there are a lot of decent clubs with history that are below 3. Liga who are now unplayable at the start, which is a shame. I'll be sticking with FM08 for a while anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted April 22, 2009 Share Posted April 22, 2009 wo hast du die coolen titlebars her? ich meine, 1.bundesliga ok, aber EINTRACHT TRIER??? Puh, ist schon ewig her, seitdem ich dieses Zeug installiert habe. Aber: Es müsste dieses Pack hier gewesen sein. Currently playing FM08 with Fortuna, really enjoying it Fortuna Köln? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wegason Posted April 23, 2009 Share Posted April 23, 2009 Fortuna Dusseldorf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted May 22, 2009 Share Posted May 22, 2009 So are we getting the 4th tier back in FM10 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Simon Tipple Posted June 10, 2009 SI Staff Share Posted June 10, 2009 FM10 hasn't even been announced, let alone had a feature list published. Patience. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
karnevalsverein Posted July 5, 2009 Share Posted July 5, 2009 So are we getting the 4th tier back in FM10 ? bumping this because i'd love a crack at bringing some of the old gdr clubs languishing in the lower divisions up through the ranks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swindon69 Posted July 13, 2009 Share Posted July 13, 2009 Aye - it'll be good fun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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