crusadertsar Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said: @crusadertsar which skin are you using in the screens? This: It's this one, YACs https://www.fmscout.com/a-yacs-fm20-skin.html 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witticism Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) Having a first go at this after going over the thread and implementing some ideas I liked and getting rid of some things I was doing that were rather silly. It's not perfect but when it works I am rather pleased: Edited March 5, 2020 by witticism Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, witticism said: Having a first go at this after going over the thread and implementing some ideas I liked and getting rid of some things I was doing that were rather silly. It's not perfect but when it works I am rather pleased: Nice! That's what I like to see. Show that the tactic works, at least sometimes haha. I had something similar happen to me last night with Real Sociedad. Except it was my young IWB, Ander Barrenetxea, finishing with the tap in. Ended up being the key goal as we beat Sevilla 2-1. What a tremendous player he will be one day. I also need to learn how make these near gifs. More useful for demonstration than a video. Edited March 5, 2020 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
witticism Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 minute ago, crusadertsar said: gifs I use gyazo, which comes with software that helps with the selection, creation, and upload of the gifs themselves. Making it all fit into the 7 second limit is a bit of a challenge tho, as is the limited upload capacity their free service plan allows. Other than that it's great. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 5, 2020 Author Share Posted March 5, 2020 6 minutes ago, witticism said: I use gyazo, which comes with software that helps with the selection, creation, and upload of the gifs themselves. Making it all fit into the 7 second limit is a bit of a challenge tho, as is the limited upload capacity their free service plan allows. Other than that it's great. Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out for my next article. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubsnz Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 @crusadertsarhaving a go at this with an Arsenal save, pre-season seems promising. Quick question - do you play around with mentality during the game adjusting to what you are seeing, or is it just left on attack for the full 90? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, jdubsnz said: @crusadertsarhaving a go at this with an Arsenal save, pre-season seems promising. Quick question - do you play around with mentality during the game adjusting to what you are seeing, or is it just left on attack for the full 90? Arsenal are a perfect side for this style Especially playing Ozil in False9 role. I was actually considering a go with them. Trying to do something similar to Wengerball. Great choice. Regarding your question, no not really. I prefer to keep same intensity throughout to continuously control the game in the opposition half. The only times i drop it a notch would be if you get a player sent out. Edited March 6, 2020 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubsnz Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 40 minutes ago, crusadertsar said: Arsenal are a perfect side for this style Especially playing Ozil in False9 role. I was actually considering a go with them. Trying to do something similar to Wengerball. Great choice. Regarding your question, no not really. I prefer to keep same intensity throughout to continuously control the game in the opposition half. The only times i drop it a notch would be if you get a player sent out. Ozil in the false 9? hadnt thought of that but it makes sense! was playing with Martinelli Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, jdubsnz said: Ozil in the false 9? hadnt thought of that but it makes sense! was playing with Martinelli His attributes went down somewhat in the last update, but he is still the closest player to Messi at least attribute-wise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubsnz Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 The one first team signing I made is Everton - he could potentially play in the False9 role too: Playing Emile Smith-Rowe in the RPM role and he seems to be liking it. Most of my goals are coming from Pepe on the right - does that make sense? Pre-season finished now, about to start this custom season so will let you know how I get on: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdubsnz Posted March 6, 2020 Share Posted March 6, 2020 1 minute ago, crusadertsar said: His attributes went down somewhat in the last update, but he is still the closest player to Messi at least attribute-wise. agreed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 6, 2020 Author Share Posted March 6, 2020 2 minutes ago, jdubsnz said: agreed! Everton is also great choice. You could also you Lacazzette as a False 9 with the Ozil as the mezzala "Needle player" to bring the ball up with his superior dribbling. Pepe is a great attacking inside forward so it makes sense. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 (edited) Update coming tomorrow 4-3-3 Roles and PPM Guide Edited March 12, 2020 by crusadertsar 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saargamer Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 great, I'm looking forward to it. tested the tactics with Leeds with a few minor changes. F9 = DLF, AML - space interpreter at, pass into space. I played a very successful second half of the season. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, Saargamer said: great, I'm looking forward to it. tested the tactics with Leeds with a few minor changes. F9 = DLF, AML - space interpreter at, pass into space. I played a very successful second half of the season. Good to hear! Me too. Tested for about half a season with Real Sociedad. And despite an early dip in form when we were still learning the tactic, recovered now and pushing top half. Had some recent good performances, such as beating Real Madrid 2-0 and tiying Barca 1-1. I'm excited to report more about it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3nrique_SEP Posted March 12, 2020 Share Posted March 12, 2020 anybody has tested a strikerless system with a Trequartista instead of a F9? in the actual match engine, it seems much better for me 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 12, 2020 Author Share Posted March 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said: anybody has tested a strikerless system with a Trequartista instead of a F9? in the actual match engine, it seems much better for me That's interesting! Would love to see results for such an experiment too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crusadertsar Posted March 13, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 13, 2020 4-3-3 Role Guide, Part 1: Attack and Midfield Original Article source: https://dictatethegame.com/2020/03/13/433-role-guide-attack-and-midfield/ Only a few years ago, under Arsene Wenger, Arsenal was playing some of the most attractive football in Premiership. Over the course of his long stay, the visionary Frenchman changed the club DNA significantly. The Gunners went from playing boring park-the-bus to fast-paced short passing possession game. Before Pep's Manchester City, there was Arsenal's elegant Tiki-Taka-style that was making waves in England. Wenger turned English football on its head with his brand of attractive football that focused on technical ability over physicality. It became known as Wengerball and was reminiscent of both early 2010s Barcelona and Ajax' Total Football of 1970s. In the following guide I will attempt to show which roles are needed to recreate this beautiful style of football in FM20. A style that has been shown to transcend time and place. This 1st part of the planned guide series, will look at the player roles in 4-3-3. To quote Shakespeare, "all the world's a stage, and all the men and women merely players". In other words we all have our roles to play, and everything we do is predetermined by those roles. This also happens to be very true in the context of Football Manager. In the game, players are like chess pieces who follow the directives of their preset roles. By knowing what each role if capable of, you can manipulate the rules of the game to suit your tactic. This is how I do it in my RPG (again roleplaying) Method to Tactic Creation. Reading the in-game role descriptions and understanding them brings you half-way there. Putting them together in a meaningful way is the second part. This guide will hopefully help you in piecing everything together. But first lets start by analyzing the Team Instructions in my High-Scoring 4-3-3. After we can look at the roles. Historical Summary Did The Dutch invent 4-3-3? No, while Rinus Michels and Johan Cruyff gave Total Football to the world, they were not the first to utilize this formation. For sure, Dutch interpretation was the most complex and effective use of the shape to this time. Yet even the concept of a False 9 was not invented in 1970s. https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=42&v=FzX2zJgMr14&feature=emb_logo Total Football was unique in its use of space, position switching and heavy pressing. And while Michels first introduced this demanding style at Ajax, Valeriy Lobanovskyi pioneered a similar "gegenpressing" approach with Dynamo Kyiv. Where Michels' approach differed was in his harnessing of the 4-3-3 formation and its innate strength in both attack and defence. But especially in how it handled possession and midfield control. The beauty of a well-played 4-3-3 is in how easy it is for very technical players to keep the ball moving between them via passing triangles. Even then in 1970s Holland, Tiki-Taka was born. And thanks to the 4-3-3, Rinus Michels was able to demonstrate the power of Total Football to the world. First with Ajax, and then again at 1974 World Cup. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMkJht0GxOs Michels and Cruyff would eventually bring Dutch way of playing 4-3-3 to Spain. The Catalans have since made it their own, through a long process overseen by Johan Cruyff at Barcelona. His hard work culminated in Spain's 2010 World Cup win. The Catalan way, dubbed Tiki-Taka, to this day has strong roots in Total Football. And it is still developing, as Pep Guardiola continues to perfect his Juego de Posición (Positional Play) at Man City. Up to early 1970s and the rise of Ajax, 4-3-3 was a little used formation. It was not really talked about outside the circles of serious football tactics hipsters and historians. The 4-3-3 as we know it today actually evolved from 4-2-4 formation. The credit for creating the 4-2-4 should go to two different managers, on two different continents. Brazil national team coach Flavio Costa introduced a highly successful 4-2-4 system about the same time as Hungary's Bela Guttman and his Golden Team shocked England with it at 1954 World Cup. Both Guttman's and Costa's tactics resembled 4-3-3 in possession phase. Hungary's striker Nandor Hidegkuti pioneered the False9 role by dropping deep into midfield. Cruyff would late adapt this same role at Ajax. By the 1962 World Cup, Brazil had modified its 4-2-4 system so far that it resembled 4-3-3 with forward Zagallo as its False9. England was not far behind in the 4-3-3 revolution. English manager Alf Ramsey had his own successful 4-3-3 experiment in the 1950s and 60s. He was the last coach of England to win World Cup (1966), although interestingly he used 4-4-2 for the final. So the formation seemed to evolve quickly over the 1960s and early 70s in different parts of the world. Yet it was not until Rinus Michel' Ajax and Dutch National Team in the 1970s, that it reached its apotheosis. Setting the Stage with Ajax-style 4-3-3 It was Ajax of the late 60s to early 70s that took 4-3-3 to a whole new level. From 1966, Rinus Michels' Ajax team won Eredivisie six times in eight years. In 1969 it became the first Dutch team to reach the final of the European Cup (current Champions League). Then they proceeded to win this tournament 3 times in a row (1971–73). They also won the 1972 UEFA Super Cup and 1972 Intercontinental Cup. Since then no other club has attached itself to a formation as Ajax with its 4-3-3. To this day when one mentions Ajax, the 4-3-3 (not to mention Total Football) comes to mind. Although under the numerous managers that came after Michels, club did not always play in this formation, its youth academy faithfully sticks to the well-tested formula. Ajax youth coaches make sure that the 4-3-3 is ingrained early in the Club-DNA. It's always the first formation that the youngsters learn. And for good reasons. It is great for teaching basic tenets of tactics and formations due to its flexibility. Other than the defensive midfielder, there are no real specialists in the formation. So this gives young players the flexibility and structure to express themselves and play to the best of their abilities. Even-though I do not foresee such whirlwind success with my own 4-3-3, my objective is nevertheless ambitious within the game. I want to create a progressive possession, attacking tactic, while playing attractive style of football. And its always a positive if we can win some trophies while doing this. That will probably be rather essential for me to keep my job, given the status of my chosen club. Strength in Attack One of the 4-3-3's strengths is the ease with which it gives control over the midfield and strength in attack. This is done by means of a trio of technically gifted well-rounded midfielders. And once the midfield control is achieved, the opposition can be overwhelmed in attack. Overloads are achieved through four players who attack from the side (wingbacks and wingers). At the same time two creators (LCM and RCM) move up into halfspaces. The two key roles, the dedicated defensive midfielder and a creative forward, link everything together. Essentially, seven players could move into attack at any given time. It makes it very difficult to defend against. This is done by means of triangles which are a very effective way of out-passing and pressing the opposition. As you can see above, the formation leaves very little space between your players. Which is a great advantage for both short-passing possession play and counter-pressing when trying to get the ball back. When it comes to playing attacking progressive possession, it's no wonder 433 is the ideal shape. But you still need the right players, and most importantly the right roles, for the whole system to work. False 9: Offensive Pivot Because this formation only has one centre forward, a lot falls onto his shoulders. He is responsible for both creating chances for wide attackers and finishing some of their plays. Primarily he must be good at holding up the ball while wide attackers and midfielders make runs around him. Yet when presented with a scoring opportunity, he should not hesitate. Thus great shooting ability is always a bonus with this player. Now I am going to be devil's advocate and suggest that my ideal False9 is a big and strong player. He should possess outstanding mental attributes to read the game well and technicals to match, such as passing and dribbling. While this combination is unique, it is not all that uncommon. Perfect choices would be players in the mold of Giroud, Dzeko, Petagna or Bruno Petkovic. Dzeko - my favourite striker since FM14 Essentially you will need a highly technical Targetman type. Someone to withstand heavy opposition pressure while his teammates move into halfspaces around him. Messi, who is diminutive and nimble, made this role famous. He is one of a kind player. But someone like him would not be my first choice unless you possess a truly worldclass player. Above all, it's a pivot role for the whole formation and will need to be uncharacteristically self-less, complete team player. Key Attributes: Technical: Dribbling, First Touch, Passing, Technique Mental: Bravery, Composure, Off the Ball, Teamwork, Vision Physical: Balance, Strength Recommended (not essential but a bonus): Technical: Finishing, Long Shots Mental: Anticipation, Workrate Physical: Acceleration, Agility, Jumping Reach The only Personal Instruction is "Close Down More" to contribute to the Split Block in my front five. Sociedad's Willian Jose is my choice for this role. He is not worldclass but nevertheless possesses all the necessary attributes for this key offensive pivot role. Furthermore, he has two out of three essential PPMs: Comes deep for the Ball and Plays with Back to Goal. They help in bringing midfield runners and wide attackers into play. The third is Plays One-Twos which is very nice to have in any possession tactic. As you can read here, I have been a fan of one-twos since FM19. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBJCjlvqUog&feature=emb_logo IMPORTANT NOTE: One-Twos will only work if you have other attackers and midfielders with this trait. Basically you want the seven players who join the attack to have it. So your three forwards, two offensive midfielders and both wingbacks. I will not mention it again except that you should start teaching it as soon as possible. Wide Forwards: Water Carriers If the False9 is the all-important pivot then the widemen are the "water carriers" tasked with supplying and finishing plays. I set them both on Support Duty for this very reason. They can drop deep to pick up the ball and then cut inside and connect with the striker. This will often create one-twos or short passes to allow them to play through congested opposition. It helps if they are both fast and able to bring the ball inside in-spite of overwhelming opposition pressure. As such it is even better if they have great dribbling, first touch, technique, composure, workrate , agility and balance. They will help with the ball under pressure. Key Attributes Technical: Dribbling, First Touch, Technique Mental: Composure, Off the Ball, Workrate Physical: Acceleration, Agility, Balance Recommended: Technical: Finishing, Long Shots, Passing Mental: Anticipation, Teamwork, Vision Physical: Pace Ideally the two should be capable of both passing and scoring, so again like the midfield, well-rounded players are ideal. But most teams, will probably have one better scorer (inside forward type) and one more creative passer. This is the setup I like to use myself so as to give more variety to my attack. So while the Personal Instructions are the same for both, they are definately not same type of player. My left winger, Isak, is the more attacking of the two. Thus his training is more focused on attacking movement in the final third. Attributes such as Finishing, Anticipation, Composure, Off the Ball, and Acceleration are the most important. On the other hand, his right-flank partner is more of a creator/crosser. The key trainable attributes here are Crossing, Passing, First Touch, Decisions and Vision. So basically I train him like a wide playmaker. In terms of traits, a variety can be used as long as they don't interfere with the role's primary functions. For instance I like both wingers to possess Run With the Ball, to take advantage of their dribbling. After-all their main job is to get the ball out wide and to bring it inside. Otherwise I will choose ones that are complementary to the specific role. So Gets Further Forward or Gets Into Opposition Area for the Inside Forward would also make sense. Likewise Placed Shots and Rounds the Keeper would make sense for a speedy technical player like Isak. On the right, I use Odegaard and Januzaj, both of whom have Likes to Pass PPM. I think it is pretty essential, especially to offset low teamwork attribute like in Januzaj's case. And again Runs with the Ball is my other choice here. Midfield Trio: The Needle, Recycler and Specialist A well-balanced midfield is essential to the 4-3-3 formation. Your 4-3-3 will either succeed or fail based on your midfield trio. Here you need to place two of your most well-rounded "Total" footballers (especially in LCM and RCM slots). They need to be comfortable in both attack and defence. And to control the ball in possession and win it back as soon as it's lost. To achieve this the two need slightly different roles that nevertheless work well in combination. One is a box-to-box-type while the other should more offensive-minded mezzala, responsible for much of the team’s creativity in the middle. In the end both need to be creators with mezzala offering more penetration into the final third. Mezzala - The Needle Player tasked with the job of carrying the ball up from midfield to attackers. As a result, he needs to be a hard-working, technically gifted passer and excellent dribbler with good off the ball sense. Basically think of a typical Number 10 transported into midfield. But because of his involvement in the midfield battle, he will need to be defensively responsible. This means decent (at least two digits) level of positioning, and tackling. As a ball-carrier he should be brave, energetic, always hungry for the ball, and comfortable dribbling and passing forward on the run. On his shoulders lies the important task of carrying the ball between the lines and pushing up the field between the opposition’s players. Roaming Playmaker - The Recycler More of a creative box-to-box player. And essentially that is what Roaming Playmaker is in the game, a box-to-box midfielder with more risky passing. While both central midfielders should be creative-types, the Recycler should be your best playmaker of the two, with playmaker's PPMs. Preferred Moves like Dictates Play and Switch Ball to the Other Side are a requirement, especially for taking advantage of overloads and creating chances for the inside forward. Others such as Attempts through(killer) Balls are a nice bonus. In terms of key and recommended attributes for the Needle and Recycler, they need to be your "Total Footballers". In other words, they require almost every attribute in the game. For this purpose Oyarzabal/Merino pair are a perfect core to build any Total Football-style tactic around. And you can check out my in-depth coverage of the two in my previous Young Devils article here. DM(S) - The Specialist Even-though Zubeldia is the formation's specialist, I prefer his role to be very generic as a Defensive Midfielder on Support. Also despite the obvious emphasis on defensive responsibility, he also needs to be very well-rounded, complete player. As a holding midfielder, he sits back and covers the attacking movements of both Oyarzabal and Merino. On his part, great reading of the game is required which will translate into accurate positioning to break up the play and win back and control of the ball. Barcelona's Sergio Busquets is the archetypal model player. Besides Tackling, Marking and Passing, the other key attributes are mostly mental ones like Anticipation, Composure, Concentration, Decisions, Positioning, and Teamwork. By looking at Busquets FM20 profile, should give you a good idea of what king of player you will need. Trait-wise, your DM(S) will need Plays Simple Passes along with Runs with Ball Rarely. Again they are Busquet's PPMs and play a large role in why he has been Barca's important defensive pivot. Tactic Update: https://ufile.io/2tdh74zf (Counter instruction should be removed as per latest version). To Be Continued... 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fieldsy Posted March 13, 2020 Share Posted March 13, 2020 Thanks for this - really interesting and superbly written. Cant seem to get the download to work - just hangs there..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 13, 2020 Author Share Posted March 13, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, Fieldsy said: Thanks for this - really interesting and superbly written. Cant seem to get the download to work - just hangs there..... Thank you! It's weird about the download. I think it's something on your end. I just tried it on both my phone and computer and it works. I'll see if can just upload the file straight here as an attachment. Here you go it's below! Hopefully this will work 4-3-3-total-football.fmf Edited March 13, 2020 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
h3nrique_SEP Posted March 16, 2020 Share Posted March 16, 2020 (edited) I created a nice 3-4-1-2 with Lazio looking for overload the left and create chances on the right The 3-4-1-2 seems a nice tactic to create overloads, together with the 4-3-3 3-4-1-2 Zhart - CREATING SIDE OVERLOAD.fmf Edited March 17, 2020 by h3nrique_SEP 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 That's interesting! I'll have to try this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharza_FM Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) Long time Pep follower and current coach.. I think this is the first FM version I've come this close to being able to recreate Pep tactics. Although this feels like a cross between Pep and Klopp it creates some really attractive football. Kudos for getting me down the right road. Check out the midfield as I think it works a little better than yours. PF (S) changes to a F9 (S) depending on player in the role. Close Down More and Mark Tighter on IW-A, IW-S, MEZ-A, and DLP-S If the team we are playing against plays with an attacking RB we Man Mark the IW-A on it (so Mark Specific Player PI) F9-S - Close Down More PF (S) - None MEZ-A - More Direct Passes DLP-S - Dribble Less IWB-S - Pass it Shorter CD-D - Pass it Shorter, Stay Wider CWB-S - Pass it Shorter, Shoot Less Often Adjust things based on what the game gives me but that is the starting point. Really enjoying FM 20 and have had success with the above in the Prem AND 3 division Portugal side Lusitania Lourosa Edited March 17, 2020 by Kharza_FM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) @Kharza_FM With all due respect, I like the way my midfield works more. There is a reason why I didn't use two static roles like DLP and Anchorman, because with Roaming Playmaker and DM(S) i have more dynamic movement and fluidity. I am looking to recreate a Total Football type system remember. Also I'm not quite sure how early crosses, higher tempo and attacking mentality work together to create possession. Could you explain that one? But it could be a nice tactic, don't get me wrong. Just not exactly what I'm looking for. Edited March 17, 2020 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharza_FM Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 3 hours ago, crusadertsar said: @Kharza_FM With all due respect, I like the way my midfield works more. There is a reason why I didn't use two static roles like DLP and Anchorman, because with Roaming Playmaker and DM(S) i have more dynamic movement and fluidity. I am looking to recreate a Total Football type system remember. Also I'm not quite sure how early crosses, higher tempo and attacking mentality work together to create possession. Could you explain that one? But it could be a nice tactic, don't get me wrong. Just not exactly what I'm looking for. Did you try it? Based on exactly how you described you want Busquets to play the A (D) role fits it better. Also there is the added benefit of him sitting deeper for recycling possession and preventing balls into strikers so defensively it's more solid too. I mean you recommended Plays Simple Passess and Runs with Ball Rarely PPMs.. I know what you are trying to create I've been working on trying to create variations of Pep since FM 2016. This year is the closest I've ever gotten. And remember it's possession with a PURPOSE. The Hit Early Crosses is in there as a default starting spot because I want the ball swung in early before teams have had a chance to reorganize. I alter this, WBIB, and Pass Into Space depending on what I see in the game.. this is just the starting point. I've used this at top teams, middle Prem teams, and now a 3rd league team in Portugal and they all produce the same attractive football with a PURPOSE. The Be More Expressive TI gives you the fluidity you want (look at the mentality btw.. FLUID). Just trying to add to the conversation.. to each their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 17, 2020 Author Share Posted March 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Kharza_FM said: Did you try it? Based on exactly how you described you want Busquets to play the A (D) role fits it better. Also there is the added benefit of him sitting deeper for recycling possession and preventing balls into strikers so defensively it's more solid too. I mean you recommended Plays Simple Passess and Runs with Ball Rarely PPMs.. I know what you are trying to create I've been working on trying to create variations of Pep since FM 2016. This year is the closest I've ever gotten. And remember it's possession with a PURPOSE. The Hit Early Crosses is in there as a default starting spot because I want the ball swung in early before teams have had a chance to reorganize. I alter this, WBIB, and Pass Into Space depending on what I see in the game.. this is just the starting point. I've used this at top teams, middle Prem teams, and now a 3rd league team in Portugal and they all produce the same attractive football with a PURPOSE. The Be More Expressive TI gives you the fluidity you want (look at the mentality btw.. FLUID). Just trying to add to the conversation.. to each their own. Thanks for clearing it up. I didn't say your system didn't work. I just meant I don't think it would create the kind of possession build up that i would like. Especially having early crosses with attacking mentality and fast temp would get the ball up to strikers too fast in my opinion to really resemble possession style football. It might be very effective vertical attacking tactic for sure. So might try this idea with a different team in my non total football save. Thanks for the food for thought Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kharza_FM Posted March 17, 2020 Share Posted March 17, 2020 (edited) So be careful.. tempo is how fast you move the ball, i.e. make a decision. It doesn't mean you play more direct passes and depending on the risk level AND decisions attribute (yep with you here big time) it will be where they go with the ball. Passing instructions both at a TI and PI level control the directness of passes. Lots of Pass it shorter instructions for most of the players, especially those in the back (all 4 in the back have pass it shorter and the A (D) role does take less risks so a solid 5 keeping the ball and circulating it. Do they go "direct" to a wing if they are open.. of course but there is nothing wrong with that. They still move the ball in the middle of the pitch to move the defense with short intricate passes and then free up a wing and create a 2v1. The thing I see the most that I hadn't seen before with this setup is the up back and through patterns emerge. Remember the key to finding the "right" tempo is moving the ball right before you get closed down by a defender.. mentality is all about risk not about direct or not. Sure at times this system can engage the engine counter attack mechanism (this is different than the instruction counter btw) and go to goal quickly.. but it isn't like you don't see Pep's teams do that. Most of the time though if it isn't on they keep the ball and cycle it and look to move it to the DLP (S) or the MEZ (A) who are responsible for taking more risks (think DeBruyne, Silva, Xavi, Iniesta). The thing I noticed about this engine is that when you get counter pressed the BEST way to respond is to have your instructions set to hold shape and the pass goes backwards to then go forwards. What do you mean about going to the striker to quickly? The point of using an F9 is to have them join the build up and if they drop into a pocket of space you play it in to their feet and they bounce it back to a supporting midfielder and they play through or cycle. This happens with Aguero all the time at City and we saw it with Messi at Barca. I will concede that the wide players are probably a bit more direct but if you look at Pep's teams he has always put the dribblers out there.. I like a little more Brazilian dribbling flair especially in the final third. Dribblers break teams down in FM and real life. Still messing around with the role for the AML.. my gut is telling me it should be a Winger and more like Pep's evolution @ Bayern. Edited March 17, 2020 by Kharza_FM 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sejo Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Il 13/3/2020 in 19:03 , crusadertsar ha scritto: Tactic Update: https://ufile.io/2tdh74zf (Counter instruction should be removed as per latest version). What do you mean? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, sejo said: What do you mean? In the older version I was using both counter and counter-press as TIs for transition. But i wasn't sure whether the file I uploaded still had both. It should only be counter-press. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sejo Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malemute kid Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) On 02/03/2020 at 13:15, crusadertsar said: The Perfect Team, Perfect Roles So to summarize, in order to play by Guardiola's Rules of Positional Play, you will need: Control the Half-Spaces (or channels if you will) Overload the midfield through numerical superiority Use inverted wingbacks to help in the midfield control and overload At the same time free up space on at least one flank and have your most dangerous attackers exploit it. Keep the ball as much as possible and if you lose it win it back immediately. Thus high defensive line and aggressive pressing are needed. Start attacks from the back, getting the centrebacks involved in the buildup. These should give you the rough idea on the team instructions that we will need. The next part is making sure that each player performs a specific role on the field. Again, like cogs in the machine. You will need a perfect player for each role. By this I do not mean the absolutely best, world-class player. But one that is perfectly suited to play that role due to his key attribute distribution. I will go into more detail on this in the next article where I will present the final tactic. For now these are the player roles you will need. I am using the legendary 2010-2011 Barcelona team as an example of the basic archetypes. Valdes was the classic sweeper keeper. His role was essential when playing with a high defensive line. He also acted as an extra player to help in maintaining possession and building attacks up from the back. Piqué and Mascherano were the ball-playing central defenders who were comfortable carrying the ball closer to midfielders or fullbacks to gain better passing angles. They were also mobile enough to drop back and cover. So you typical slow and strong defender who can only hoof the ball cannot apply. Alves - was the complete wingback with freedom to roam forward. Especially when both Xavi and Iniesta joined the attack. At the same time Abidal was his more conservative partner on the left. He acted like a third centerback at times. Thus defensive balance was kept. Busquets - Pivot - the only real specialist role in the whole formation. He was the all-important defensive midfield pivot. Busquets fit into Barcelona’s system perfectly and was the key defensive foil to Messi's free "Cruyff" role. His timely interceptions coupled with exquisite composure and positioning contributed greatly to maintaining possession and shielding the defence. Xavi - Controller- also an important role in the midfield. He was basically a classic #10 who dictated the team's tempo. He was also key in recycling possession towards areas that opened up after the opposition would overload his side of the field. It helped greatly that he was always able to control the ball even in the face of the most intense opposition pressure. Iniesta - Needle Player - who will thread the whole between your midfield and opponent's defence. As a #8 Iniesta acted like an attacking midfielder who carried the ball forward into dangerous areas. In this he was helped by his unrivaled dribbling skill and low stature (and centre of gravity). Pedro - was the versatile winger who hugged the touchline and provided width on the side Guardiola wished to overload. It also allowed Alves cut inside from his fullback position. Sometimes he would cut inside to support Messi and leave room for overlapping Alves on the wing. Villa - Shadow Striker - would also stay wide on the left, seemingly harmless as the second winger. But the moment that there was an overload created on the right, his more dangerous side would emerge. Then he would drift inside in a difficult-to-mark curved run toward the penalty box. His reputation for finishing attacks made him into one the best strikers in Spanish history. Messi- "Cruyff" Role - Catalyst. Those who read my previous article on Total Football, are probably familiar with Cruyff's all-important role to Dutch 4-3-3. Best player on the team and the brain of the formation. Guardiola gave him the full freedom to drop deep, drift to the wings or just roam around. The opposition defenders had no choice but follow him. By his mere movement, Leo created space for his teammates. What a real False9 must be. You can find the download for the preliminary version of this tactic at the end of the article. Mind you, it is bound to change as I test and report on in future articles. Again these roles are not meant to be exact replication of 2010 Barca but rather an inspiration for my Total Football 4-3-3 Tactic's Roles. It's more of a general amalgam of styles from three of Guardiola-led clubs. For instance, while Alves did a lot of roaming, he did not really act like an inverted wingback. Guardiola did not start using inverted wingback until his Bayern days. What all his tactics between 2010 and 2020 have in common is that 4-3-3 shape (4-1-4-1DM wide if you will). As well as his constant drive to create overloads. That is something that he learned from his great mentors, Cruyff and Bielsa. And is also something that I myself too cannot stop doing. Once you seeing Total Football everywhere, it is hard to go back to playing football any other way. @crusadertsar Do IWBs with overlap instruction making arcing runs from the half-spaces in midfield back outside to the channels? Edited March 18, 2020 by malemute kid Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 @malemute kid the main effect of overlap on IWB is to make them play more like a hybrid between a regular wingback and inverted wingback. With overlap they will advance further up the field before cutting inside. Also I often see my left IWB overlapping the inside forward to deliver cutback and crosses. I find they are much more deadly than without this instruction. It is important that your left one is much more defensively responsible with great positioning and tackling however. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextqprmanager Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 (edited) crusadertsar, I am glad I found this thread. I have been playing FM, started with the original CM, on & off ; & Cruyff is my hero. Also I am a Football Coach IRL ; so I tried replicating the great Ajax Team of 1970-73 on [ don`t laugh ] Fifa 20, obviously to no avail. So I came back to FM20, I had FM17. So I have had a stab at a Tactic using Cruyff ( who no-one can replace! ), Neeskens, Krol & Haan etc. An interesting point about the Ajax vs Bayern match, was last 2 goals headers & play was lobbing the ball into the box, picking up the headed out loose ball = the Tactic evolved, based on `the players`. But playing as Bolton, I [ cheated ] did download 2 other Tactics to help me win a few matches, getting into The Championship ; as you say firstly you have to keep your Job. I will persevere though, maybe just staying in The Championship / surviving in The Prem. I can post my Tactics - on my laptop , later maybe. I take it I can download your Tactic above instead?. GL to you. Edited March 18, 2020 by nextqprmanager 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 18, 2020 Author Share Posted March 18, 2020 @nextqprmanager Yeah totally, Ajax was a very adaptive team based on the opposition. It wasn't just always short sideways passes. It was the first real vertical progressive possession side. For sure I would love to see your tactic in this thread. And the download above should work if you are interested 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextqprmanager Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 18 hours ago, crusadertsar said: @nextqprmanager Yeah totally, Ajax was a very adaptive team based on the opposition. It wasn't just always short sideways passes. It was the first real vertical progressive possession side. For sure I would love to see your tactic in this thread. And the download above should work if you are interested Below is my Team which beat West Ham 2-1 [ 2nd in Championship ]. As you will notice, even with the wrong players`, it works. I had fitness / injuries issues. Also I have only used this Tactic I think 3 matches, so there is hope. You will probably disagree with most of the instructions?, but it will evolve I think. As said before, it often depends on players` available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, nextqprmanager said: Below is my Team which beat West Ham 2-1 [ 2nd in Championship ]. As you will notice, even with the wrong players`, it works. I had fitness / injuries issues. Also I have only used this Tactic I think 3 matches, so there is hope. You will probably disagree with most of the instructions?, but it will evolve I think. As said before, it often depends on players` available. It's a good base to work with. Although you might need to cut down some of the TIs as you watch more matches. You are aiming for possession style I can see. But sometimes you have to be careful not to overdo it or you will get possession for the sake of possession with little threat in final third. For example when you instruct your players to play short passes it already makes the team naturally narrow. So when you add to that "very narrow" instruction it narrows your formation needlessly. Playing very narrow will make it harder to open up space in opposition defence and overload their flanks. Edited March 19, 2020 by crusadertsar 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor940 Posted March 19, 2020 Share Posted March 19, 2020 (edited) Why more direct passing on the RPM? I use it when Im having a hard time entering the final third tho. Edited March 19, 2020 by Razor940 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 19, 2020 Author Share Posted March 19, 2020 38 minutes ago, Razor940 said: Why more direct passing on the RPM? I use it when Im having a hard time entering the final third tho. To encourage him to switch the ball from the overloaded right side to the left flank where my inside forward can get 1v1s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nextqprmanager Posted March 20, 2020 Share Posted March 20, 2020 13 hours ago, crusadertsar said: It's a good base to work with. Although you might need to cut down some of the TIs as you watch more matches. You are aiming for possession style I can see. But sometimes you have to be careful not to overdo it or you will get possession for the sake of possession with little threat in final third. For example when you instruct your players to play short passes it already makes the team naturally narrow. So when you add to that "very narrow" instruction it narrows your formation needlessly. Playing very narrow will make it harder to open up space in opposition defence and overload their flanks. Won a few more matches last night. I did change the very narrow to narrow in 1 match then standard vs weaker Team & worked slightly better when we seem to be banging our head against a brick wall ; but what worked better was changing to attacking [ like my other 2 Tactics both attacking ], we then scored more freely. I will give updates if you like?. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor940 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 I was trying for centuries something like this, I think everyone ends up on something similar. The thing Im finding is that everyone, including me, was thinking about the IF(A) on the wrong position. I think we all learned to have a playmaker on one side and someone pushing forward on the other side, the problem I think is that people with the years going on dropped the AP role but still think about Mezz, CM(a) as a playmaker, wich is not true. They can call plays, but they dont take the ball home like a true playmaker, so the other role next to him normally is a true playmaker, and he's the one that diagnolize plays most of the time, wich not happen much when he's on the same side as the IF(A). Also, from re watching 2010 Barcelona it's true that Villa and Iniesta are on the same side, but my mind always cheated me because I mainly remember that final against United where Villa played on the right. Another thing, I don't think Mezzala is the best role for Iniesta, yes he occupied the left half space, but at the same time the Mezzala doesn't roam at all because of the move into channels shout, wich is funny because he has roaming by default, but I challenge anyone to say the opposite because the role is an half space merchant, nothing less nothing more, he doesn't go anywhere near another channel. And if you have two half space players, you will probably cancell 2 players at the same time if you're not cautious. So I tried a CM(A) with stay wide and I see a lot more roaming and what Iniesta really did on the field. Plus, they don't occupy the half space at the same time 100% of the time as the IF+Mezz would do. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor940 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gennamitico Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 17 minutes ago, Razor940 said: Omg!!!! Could you share your tactic? I'm trying to recreate pep barca style but i'm really struggling in %possession and in goals scored Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor940 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 1 minuto atrás, gennamitico disse: Omg!!!! Could you share your tactic? I'm trying to recreate pep barca style but i'm really struggling in %possession and in goals scored Can't, because you would not learn nothing from it. And what is good for me might not be good for you. Plug and play is dead since 2013 or 2014. But I can assure you the shape is particularly identical to what Crusader created, because like I said, there isn't much to differ. You see a lot of people using it too and fail, because they don't think about space, or they overkill in the TI department, or they don't have the players, or even they can't understand that you won't have high %s every game because there are other teams that play like you (this happens a lot in this FM) or for any other reason. Try to understand the concept of mentality, and everything involved, and how you wanna play. For example, there are a lot of people that talk about overloads in this forum, but I assure you they don't know **** about what they are talking. Guardiola does a lot of overloads and you still don't see everything to the mount and faith in god, you see people in different channels. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sejo Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 2 ore fa, Razor940 ha scritto: Another thing, I don't think Mezzala is the best role for Iniesta, yes he occupied the left half space, but at the same time the Mezzala doesn't roam at all because of the move into channels shout, wich is funny because he has roaming by default, but I challenge anyone to say the opposite because the role is an half space merchant, nothing less nothing more, he doesn't go anywhere near another channel. And if you have two half space players, you will probably cancell 2 players at the same time if you're not cautious. So I tried a CM(A) with stay wide and I see a lot more roaming and what Iniesta really did on the field. Plus, they don't occupy the half space at the same time 100% of the time as the IF+Mezz would do. Do you mean you play CMa instead of MEZa? With the RPM beside him? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor940 Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 2 horas atrás, sejo disse: Do you mean you play CMa instead of MEZa? With the RPM beside him? Yes, but I might change things on the role and PIs depending on what I see. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sejo Posted March 21, 2020 Share Posted March 21, 2020 7 minuti fa, Razor940 ha scritto: Yes, but I might change things on the role and PIs depending on what I see. Ok thanks. Can I see which roles and shape do you use? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovis Dexter Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 On 19/03/2020 at 21:19, Razor940 said: Why more direct passing on the RPM? I use it when Im having a hard time entering the final third tho. On 19/03/2020 at 22:01, crusadertsar said: To encourage him to switch the ball from the overloaded right side to the left flank where my inside forward can get 1v1s. Doesn't this conflict with you're preferred PPM of Plays One Twos for the midfielders and attackers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Hovis Dexter said: Doesn't this conflict with you're preferred PPM of Plays One Twos for the midfielders and attackers? By using the PI it doesn't mean he will do it all the time. Same with PPM , it's not constantly on. I like to see him using his decision making to judge when through ball is appropriate versus short pass. That's the reason he needs Dictate the play trait too. Edited March 22, 2020 by crusadertsar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusadertsar Posted March 22, 2020 Author Share Posted March 22, 2020 My next big update us coming tomorrow by the way 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hovis Dexter Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 Just now, crusadertsar said: By using the PI it doesn't mean he will do it all the time. Same with PPM , it's not constantly on. I like to see him using his decision making to judging when through ball is appropriate versus short pass. That's the reason he needs Dictate the play trait too. That's interesting because my best AMR has PPMs of Runs with Ball Down Right and Hugs Line which seemingly conflicts with the Cut Inside with Ball PI for the Inverted Winger. So does mean that he's likely to play as a cross between a winger and inverted winger? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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