LeeWHU888 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Hi guys need a bit of advice with my tactic. I had a decent season in my 1st season with this set up, finishing 6th and playing some great football along the way, scoring 70 goals in the league, only outscored by Arsenal who won it and Liverpool who came 2nd. This season, I've struggled badly, average about 48% of the ball a game but we're lucky to get 3 or 4 highlights a game and when we do, they're mainly us pottering around and ending up with a **** long ranger. I've not stuck with this tactic all season, I have tried a few different things with tactics, roles, instructions but I seem to be getting deeper into this rut. I'm just hoping that someone might be able to see how I could go about tinkering this formation that worked. I assume a lot of it is to do with my reputation, teams are probably not as adventurous against us but I've tried being more conservative but to no avail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 - Change the IF's duty to support (AML) - Change the winger's duty to attack (AMR) - Remove Focus play down the right - Remove Focus play down the left - Change the roles of the 2 CMs - CMde in MCL and BBM in MCR - Consider changing the RB's role from FBsu to IWB on defend - Drop the LOE to standard - Reduce pressing urgency to default and use split press instead Instructions suggest you wanna play rather counter-attacking football (as opposed to possession), right? If so, there are a couple more tweaks I would suggest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 Also, if this profile of Alena is accurate, then he should not be played in a CM position in a 4231 with so poor tackling and positioning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporadicsmiles Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: Also, if this profile of Alena is accurate, then he should not be played in a CM position in a 4231 with so poor tackling and positioning. At least not in games where you are going to need midfielders to defend more. So against top teams. He would be fine against sides you expect to beat, I would think. With Rice alongside to take care of the dirtier side of the game. I'd definitely make sure the FB on the left is not getting too far forward when you plan Alena though. He is not going to provide good cover in that area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Mate, you were just lucky in the first season. Burnley once finished sixth. So did Newcastle. Actually, I'd bet a good deal of Football clichès (the second Season is Always the hardest, staying at the top of the table is harder than getting there once, etc.) stem from the fact that good and bad luck Plays a big role in this Sports. And it doesn't repeat. Skill does (that is for as long as there is an actual difference in this skill , e.g. unlike in this edited league of clones ). And to an extent, so does that naturally in the game. At least some. Now in-game, you will find a (tactical) solution for almost anything, including Solutions that will vastly outperform all Player / Squad ability consistently every Season (which imo shouldn't be, and may make you obsessing About Things). However, you're on the generally Right track. You're going to face more conservative AI, which means you aren't gifted space anymore, in particular on those breaks your tactic encourages to exploit ("more direct", "counter" in transitions). Unfortunately, it is arguably too "easy" to exploit more attacking AI, as unlike an actual Manager in actual football the AI is incapable of "spotting" where it's getting countered/exploited. In fact, if you are fortunate enough to take the lead in subsequent Matches (and taking the lead in sequence DOES take luck) -- it goes even MORE aggressive, and tends to be exploited even more easily. So you could have a run of Matches that end up in reasonably high scoring games -- that is for as Long as the AI in numbers aims to win convincingly against you, and just can't accept ever going behind. After an overperformance, in more and more Matches you won't be seen as an Underdog to beat though -- the clue is in the pre-match odds. tldr; (1) Still, Leicester won an EPL Season that way -- how did they fare thereafter? tldr(2) Improve some of your tactics; but also improve your Squad. And Keep playing as well as learning how to read what the AI is up to rather than resigning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeWHU888 Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 22 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: - Change the IF's duty to support (AML) - Change the winger's duty to attack (AMR) - Remove Focus play down the right - Remove Focus play down the left - Change the roles of the 2 CMs - CMde in MCL and BBM in MCR - Consider changing the RB's role from FBsu to IWB on defend - Drop the LOE to standard - Reduce pressing urgency to default and use split press instead Instructions suggest you wanna play rather counter-attacking football (as opposed to possession), right? If so, there are a couple more tweaks I would suggest. Is split press using the PI's to tell the front line to press but the backline to hold shape? Yeah I've found more success with the counter than I have with possession based tactics, I don't think our players are good enough to break teams down that way. Any other advice you can throw at me I'll happily take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 hours ago, LeeWHU888 said: Is split press using the PI's to tell the front line to press but the backline to hold shape? Yes, split press/block means telling your 3-4 front players to close down more via their PIs, while the others are on default pressing. 3 hours ago, LeeWHU888 said: I've found more success with the counter than I have with possession based tactics, I don't think our players are good enough to break teams down that way. Any other advice you can throw at me I'll happily take. Assuming that you still want to play a 4231 with these preferred 11 players, this are the changes I would suggest: PFat Wat TQ IFsu MEZsu CMDe IWBsu CDde CDde FBsu SKsu But in this system, Wilshere - as defensively more solid than Alena - would be the mezzala, whereas Alena would play as the TQ. Yarmonelko the Wat on the left, and Anderson IF on the right. The problem is that 4231 is not an ideal system for counter-attacking football, so setting up the system - and especially defensive instructions - can be tricky. So this are the instructions I would start with and then see whether tweaks would need to be made: Positive mentality - higher tempo, fairly narrow width, hit early crosses, whipped crosses (optional/occasional TI - be more expressive, pass into space) - counter (optional TI - regroup) - standard DL, lower LOE (and here comes the tricky part... default or slightly less urgent pressing? get stuck in or not? use tighter marking or not? These are the instructions that would need to be tested to see which combination works best for your team). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeWHU888 Posted July 9, 2019 Author Share Posted July 9, 2019 21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: Yes, split press/block means telling your 3-4 front players to close down more via their PIs, while the others are on default pressing. Assuming that you still want to play a 4231 with these preferred 11 players, this are the changes I would suggest: PFat Wat TQ IFsu MEZsu CMDe IWBsu CDde CDde FBsu SKsu But in this system, Wilshere - as defensively more solid than Alena - would be the mezzala, whereas Alena would play as the TQ. Yarmonelko the Wat on the left, and Anderson IF on the right. The problem is that 4231 is not an ideal system for counter-attacking football, so setting up the system - and especially defensive instructions - can be tricky. So this are the instructions I would start with and then see whether tweaks would need to be made: Positive mentality - higher tempo, fairly narrow width, hit early crosses, whipped crosses (optional/occasional TI - be more expressive, pass into space) - counter (optional TI - regroup) - standard DL, lower LOE (and here comes the tricky part... default or slightly less urgent pressing? get stuck in or not? use tighter marking or not? These are the instructions that would need to be tested to see which combination works best for your team). Tbh, I'm not overly fussed about keeping the 4-2-3-1, it was just the one that worked for me last season so was hoping it could be tinkered but I'm happy to change it if you think there's better options. I've always like the 4-1-2-2-1 wide, it also means I can stick Rice in the DM position which is his strongest position, I know that means Alena isn't great for the CM position but he's only on loan so not too bothered about losing him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 54 minutes ago, LeeWHU888 said: I've always like the 4-1-2-2-1 wide, it also means I can stick Rice in the DM position which is his strongest position, I know that means Alena isn't great for the CM position but he's only on loan so not too bothered about losing him. I think 41221 wide (i.e. 4141dm wide, as the game calls it) is a better choice for your team. And unlike 4231, in 4141dm wide Alena could play in a CM position more safely. Because with Rice in DM your defense would have a lot more protection. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeWHU888 Posted July 10, 2019 Author Share Posted July 10, 2019 22 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: I think 41221 wide (i.e. 4141dm wide, as the game calls it) is a better choice for your team. And unlike 4231, in 4141dm wide Alena could play in a CM position more safely. Because with Rice in DM your defense would have a lot more protection. Any advice on how to set up the TI's and roles with that formation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 10, 2019 Share Posted July 10, 2019 49 minutes ago, LeeWHU888 said: Any advice on how to set up the TI's and roles with that formation? I guess you want to set up a tactic for these same starting 11? If so, this is what I would go with as a basic tactic: PFat Wat IFsu APsu MEZat HB IWBsu CDde CDde FBsu SKsu APsu - Wilshere MEZat - Alena Mentality and instructions would basically be the same as in my version of 4231. The biggest problem with this line-up is that neither CM has good enough defensive attributes. Wilshere is decent at best, while Alena is not even decent. That somewhat limits the options in relation to other roles and duties, but okay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeWHU888 Posted July 11, 2019 Author Share Posted July 11, 2019 22 hours ago, Experienced Defender said: I guess you want to set up a tactic for these same starting 11? If so, this is what I would go with as a basic tactic: PFat Wat IFsu APsu MEZat HB IWBsu CDde CDde FBsu SKsu APsu - Wilshere MEZat - Alena Mentality and instructions would basically be the same as in my version of 4231. The biggest problem with this line-up is that neither CM has good enough defensive attributes. Wilshere is decent at best, while Alena is not even decent. That somewhat limits the options in relation to other roles and duties, but okay That's great mate, I know the quality of players isn't fantastic at the minute so I don't expect miracles, I just want to see us playing better than we are at the moment, I can improve the team as we go forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Experienced Defender Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 29 minutes ago, LeeWHU888 said: That's great mate, I know the quality of players isn't fantastic at the minute so I don't expect miracles, I just want to see us playing better than we are at the moment, I can improve the team as we go forward I don't think that the quality of your players is that bad in general. The point is to try and find an optimal balance between attacking potency and defensive solidity. And that's also something you need to take into account not only when creating a tactic, but also when dealing in the transfer (or loan) market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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