Lack of goals for my narrow 4312

[Marabak]

Howdy.

I made a previous post regarding utilising a libero in a 3 man defence (32212 I suppose), but tbh it really wasn't working (the two remaining CBs never came together to close the space when the Lib marauded forward and single strikers were revelling in the acres left behind) so I switched to a more traditional BPD instead, but quite often I had wasted defenders when playing against lower teams, so I have reverted to a back 4 but tried to retain a similar top end. But suddenly, my goals have disappeared and despite hammering bottom of the league teams, I am struggling to get more than a 0-0 draw. Apart from a torrid game against Everton, I'm not conceding many though. I've attached the Match Stats from my most recent 0-0, in which I dominated the game, but no goals.

 

My formation and style is attached. I have tried switching the CF(S) and P to opposite sides, as well as trying Auba as an AF. I occasionally get really annoyed at Ozil's drop deep PPM and switch him out for Mkhi as an AM(S), which enables me to switch Torreira to a DLP(D). My midfield trio is centred around the two Mezz's as I have an attacking trio higher up the pitch so I wanted to gain some width (particularly as my FB/WB constantly have their crosses blocked so some support has meant that occasionally they pass instead of just blasting the ball at the nearest defender). Lots of my attacks do end up going down the wings however.

 

Apart from a 3-0 win against Burnley and a good couple of games against Galatasary, I've really struggled this month. Any pointers on anything obviously going wrong? I'm 4th atm the moment, but with a handful of games left and Chelsea breathing down my neck, now is not the time to stumble (especially against Brighton and West Ham).

 

Muchas gracias in advance.

[summatsupeer]

I dont think your far off.

There's 2 things I'd do firstly then reanalyze:

1. Try and improve defensively.  The very high dline on positive mentality but not higher engagement makes me concerned that it's too easy to play over your D-Line or into the space between them and the midfield, is that what you see? If so might want to back off the line a notch or engage higher. I'd also remove more urgent pressing and instead use PI to make the front 3 and maybe outside CBs be more urgent.

2. I think two MEZ is too much with two ST and two WB. I'd rather have a CAR type to cover the WB-At. I'd also be tempted to use WB-De at LB to covet and not end up in positions where only option is to cross.

That's all I'd do at this point, but I would consider a 3rd change.  With 3 CM and a CF-Su I'd like the AM to be more attacking.  TQ or SS could be interesting rather than having two players drop leaving the poacher high on his own. I'd view this as replacing one of the MEZ runners with a more central earlier threat.

[NabsKebabs]

I'd play Ozil as a Trequartista, his "comes deep to get ball" PPM makes him become more of a DLP when played as an AP(s). I'd also put Aubameyang as the left sided striker due to his "places shots" PPM and I'd prefer to use him as an AF as it's more aggresive. When played on the left, he can cut in on his favoured right foot and place shots. I would also change Laca's role to something a bit more simple such as DLF(s) since Ozil will have the freedom to roam as a TREQ. 

[Piperita]

I am currently experimenting with a similar setup. In fact, our central midfields have the exact same role distribution. 

I think the most striking feature of your team is how little your Mezzalas have scored. Are yours at least giving assists or are otherwise making good contributions? For comparison, mine are at ten and seven, respectively. 

A nice defensive tweak would be to change the WB on your offensive Mezzala side to a WBau. With positive mentality it still acts as a support but you can order him to hold position (which makes him more solid at the back but  also still allows him to make some good runs as his mentality and script are still pretty offensive), stay narrower (he stays and presses into the vacated MEZ position but in possession still runs wide), or to cross less (which is good to minimise risks on his side and to either get Ozil even more involved or to get more through balls into the front which especially Aubameyang will love!).

If your crosses are too disappointing on both sides, you could do similar on the right: WBau but with over-/underlap and Get Further Forward — it is not a full WBa but has a similar mentality and can be ordered to cross less! Alternatively, *experiment* with the IWB — They cross little by default but with no wingers before them essentially mostly act as wingbacks otherwise: They run wide most of the pitch, only cutting in late; they like to play flat, diagonal passes through the box from its edge instead of classical crosses from the wide borders; and staying narrower, generate quite a bit of possession more. Of course, they are a rare role highly dependant on the player tasked to it and their respective teammates — it can go well but also can lead to a whole lot of unexpected behaviour all around their side! 

Offensively, it is obvious Aubameyang works! Lacazette also isn't too shabby although I think yhere'd be room for a bit more, especially with the drought in midfield.

Generally, with a more defensive forward, I usually go for a more attacking AM (AMa, SS) behind to give the striker secondary (or tertiary with a late-arriving MEZa) partnera to potentially pass to. But sadly that would leave Özil completely out of a job as he neither has the speed nor the right PPMs for this role. 

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Without full games I can't say how it goes for sure, of course, but one other theory I have: Aubameyang is pacey and in a rather individualistic role. Behind him is a world-class playmaker and beside him another supporting striker. I coukd imagine your play relatively quickly going to Özil and he more often than not makes through balls for Aubameyang who just runs ahead and tries to score, leaving your other players behind. This especially hurts the MEZ-roles who can just run-run-and-run and make short passes to the AP or running WB but don't get to have actions in or around the box — nominally strong suits of this role! 

Should that be the case, your quick fix of a more defensive buildup and an AF make sense — The play gets less concentrated up front and Aubameyang has more eyes for his teammates. However: For some reason Poachers are about the only steiker role not running into channels by default, leaving him unfortunately not quite as straight-forward in his scoring chances as an AF. In that case your AM, Lacazette and the MEZa will have a lot more weight to carry!

Another option would be to accept this and support it more. For example: You change your outer midfielders to a CMa (or even BBM!) and CAR — one covers wide areas and your running wingback and the other is more suited to collecting blocked balls and bad clearances. 

 

[Marabak]

14 hours ago, summatsupeer said:

I dont think your far off.

There's 2 things I'd do firstly then reanalyze:

1. Try and improve defensively.  The very high dline on positive mentality but not higher engagement makes me concerned that it's too easy to play over your D-Line or into the space between them and the midfield, is that what you see? If so might want to back off the line a notch or engage higher. I'd also remove more urgent pressing and instead use PI to make the front 3 and maybe outside CBs be more urgent.

2. I think two MEZ is too much with two ST and two WB. I'd rather have a CAR type to cover the WB-At. I'd also be tempted to use WB-De at LB to covet and not end up in positions where only option is to cross.

That's all I'd do at this point, but I would consider a 3rd change.  With 3 CM and a CF-Su I'd like the AM to be more attacking.  TQ or SS could be interesting rather than having two players drop leaving the poacher high on his own. I'd view this as replacing one of the MEZ runners with a more central earlier threat.

In all honesty, most of the goals I concede generally come from a spell of pressure from the opponent followed by a cross into the box. I'm not being counterattacked very often, although I might engage a notch higher and see if I put the opposition under some pressure earlier. I did have a CAR at one point covering for the right WB but quite often he was just covering space that wasn't being exploited by the opponent, so I thought a MEZ(S) might enable him to go forward a little.

8 hours ago, NabsKebabs said:

I'd play Ozil as a Trequartista, his "comes deep to get ball" PPM makes him become more of a DLP when played as an AP(s). I'd also put Aubameyang as the left sided striker due to his "places shots" PPM and I'd prefer to use him as an AF as it's more aggresive. When played on the left, he can cut in on his favoured right foot and place shots. I would also change Laca's role to something a bit more simple such as DLF(s) since Ozil will have the freedom to roam as a TREQ. 

Yeah, Ozil comes very deep, which is a bit of a pain (especially when he comes and stands next to my CM(D). I'll try him as a Treq and see how he changes (I have tried Enganche to get him to hold his position but he held it a little too much, even in attack and when marked). Most of Auba's goals have come when I had him on the same role but flipped.

[summatsupeer]

Just now, Marabak said:

In all honesty, most of the goals I concede generally come from a spell of pressure from the opponent followed by a cross into the box. I'm not being counterattacked very often, although I might engage a notch higher and see if I put the opposition under some pressure earlier.

If opponents are having a sustained period of pressure then your pressing isn't really working.  I'd guess your Urgency TI and high line is making multiple players engage the same opponent and leaving other opponents open?  I'd still consider reducing that Urgency TI and look maybe at PI urgency / tight marking / tackle harder.  Might need someone in midfield to help Torreira to win the ball back?  If don't want to engage higher (when you have 2 ST + AMC I think they should be or the other 7 will have a lot to do) then i'd consider Counter Pressing.

Just now, Marabak said:

I did have a CAR at one point covering for the right WB but quite often he was just covering space that wasn't being exploited by the opponent, so I thought a MEZ(S) might enable him to go forward a little.

Not sure what another player attacking the box behind the Poacher and a WB-At would add though.  Its not just about covering, its about collecting loose balls, recycling possession, switching play and drawing opponents out from all being deep+narrow.  Whilst you can "brute force" things when safe defensively by throwing players forward into the box, looking at your results you seem to score reasonably consistently but need to defend better.  Hence not only a change of role for the MCR but a less offensive focused player, don't need a defensive specialist but a box to box type or DLP-Su type should help balance that flank and add some variation rather than all 3 players looking to make runs.

[Marabak]

4 hours ago, Piperita said:

I am currently experimenting with a similar setup. In fact, our central midfields have the exact same role distribution. 

I think the most striking feature of your team is how little your Mezzalas have scored. Are yours at least giving assists or are otherwise making good contributions? For comparison, mine are at ten and seven, respectively. 

Yeah, I agree. However, they haven't had too many games in this orientation (I was 32212 for most of the season) and all my team is struggling at the moment. My top assister is Bellerin atm which isn't good enough.

A nice defensive tweak would be to change the WB on your offensive Mezzala side to a WBau. With positive mentality it still acts as a support but you can order him to hold position (which makes him more solid at the back but  also still allows him to make some good runs as his mentality and script are still pretty offensive), stay narrower (he stays and presses into the vacated MEZ position but in possession still runs wide), or to cross less (which is good to minimise risks on his side and to either get Ozil even more involved or to get more through balls into the front which especially Aubameyang will love!).

Interesting. I was reading one of the stickies yesterday where one of the experts on here (can't recall which) was discussing the use of Automatic and their dislike of the level of customisation it enables, but sounds like it could be perfect for my needs

If your crosses are too disappointing on both sides, you could do similar on the right: WBau but with over-/underlap and Get Further Forward — it is not a full WBa but has a similar mentality and can be ordered to cross less! Alternatively, *experiment* with the IWB — They cross little by default but with no wingers before them essentially mostly act as wingbacks otherwise: They run wide most of the pitch, only cutting in late; they like to play flat, diagonal passes through the box from its edge instead of classical crosses from the wide borders; and staying narrower, generate quite a bit of possession more. Of course, they are a rare role highly dependant on the player tasked to it and their respective teammates — it can go well but also can lead to a whole lot of unexpected behaviour all around their side! 

Dammit, why didn't I think of that! I had considered IWBs (I had a great Galatasaray save on FM18 with IWB(S) involved) but I wanted to keep width in the side, but I totally forgot about the caveat that they cut inside only when they have someone in front of them.

Offensively, it is obvious Aubameyang works! Lacazette also isn't too shabby although I think yhere'd be room for a bit more, especially with the drought in midfield.

Generally, with a more defensive forward, I usually go for a more attacking AM (AMa, SS) behind to give the striker secondary (or tertiary with a late-arriving MEZa) partnera to potentially pass to. But sadly that would leave Özil completely out of a job as he neither has the speed nor the right PPMs for this role. 

I am planning on offloading Ozil at the end of the season regardless, he's now 30, has lots of attitude problems (which are exacerbated by him being a team leader) and is still worth quite a lot of money which I can hopefully reinvest (if anyone will take his wages), so this is definitely something to consider. Ozil is playing largely at the moment for political reasons (and the fact that he keeps complaining about lack of playing time) and when I rotate him for Mkhi I often change the role to something more attacking. Ozil has some amazing AP(S) attributes on paper but his PPMs stop him being the monster he could be in my system at least.

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Without full games I can't say how it goes for sure, of course, but one other theory I have: Aubameyang is pacey and in a rather individualistic role. Behind him is a world-class playmaker and beside him another supporting striker. I coukd imagine your play relatively quickly going to Özil and he more often than not makes through balls for Aubameyang who just runs ahead and tries to score, leaving your other players behind. This especially hurts the MEZ-roles who can just run-run-and-run and make short passes to the AP or running WB but don't get to have actions in or around the box — nominally strong suits of this role! 

Are you sure you aren't watching my full games in secret? That is one common attack, the other being the ball spread out wide to my WBs who charge forward into space only to hit a cross straight at a defender.

Should that be the case, your quick fix of a more defensive buildup and an AF make sense — The play gets less concentrated up front and Aubameyang has more eyes for his teammates. However: For some reason Poachers are about the only steiker role not running into channels by default, leaving him unfortunately not quite as straight-forward in his scoring chances as an AF. In that case your AM, Lacazette and the MEZa will have a lot more weight to carry!

Another option would be to accept this and support it more. For example: You change your outer midfielders to a CMa (or even BBM!) and CAR — one covers wide areas and your running wingback and the other is more suited to collecting blocked balls and bad clearances. 

 

 

[Experienced Defender]

17 hours ago, Marabak said:

I can agree with a number of previous comments (replies), so I'll tell you what I would change/tweak in your tactic (and some of the suggestions will definitely be repeats of those by other people who already replied here).

- Ozil as a TQ instead of AP

- swap around Auby's and Laca's positions (Auby on the left, Laca on the right) in this particular system

- change Laca's role to either F9 or DLFsu

- change MCR to either a carrilero or DLPsu (though not sure if Maitland-Niles would be my preferred choice)

- change MCL's (Ramsey) duty to support

- remove more urgent pressing

- drop DL from much higher to just higher

- consider counter-press as an option (especially against considerably weaker opposition)

- distribute to both CBs and FBs, and not quickly but normally (quickly only when you desperately need a goal)

- change low crosses to either whipped or simply leave them on default (mixed)

- consider the WBiB TI as an option (your players are good enough to execute this instruction in an effective way)

- change Leno's role to SK on defend duty

- consider changing Bellerin's role to FB on attack (instead of WB on attack), primarily for "safety reasons"

[Marabak]

Cheers for all of the feedback, I did a lot of what was said above and smashed Bordeaux 4-0 away from home. First half was cagey and Bordeaux probably edged it, but when I looked through the first half analysis, I noticed that Monreal was losing the ball quite a lot (only 75% passing completion) and most of my play was coming through to him via De Ligt on the left side of the CB, so I switch De Ligt and Kos around, with my BPD now on the right and everything just came together better. I also noticed that Lacazette wasn't as involved in the first half, so I swapped him to be the AF but this probably was counter intuitive as with most of my play coming down the right now, maybe I should have left him at DLF. Auba was not fit enough to start (he looks quite jaded actually, probably a shoulder injury from carrying my entire team)

However, that is all just one game....

 

 

Edit: A few games on, including a second string team beating Bordeaux 2:1 in the second leg, a 2:0 derby win against Spurs and a magnificent 2:0 win in Anfield against current league leaders Liverpool, only conceding 1 shot on target in the 94th minute and having nearly 70% of the possession, this new tweak on the tactic is looking good. Two 6-pointers coming up for 4th place now though, the real acid test.