Struggle(?) to play as relegation candidate

[gam945]

I'm having a long term save where I begin as a relegation candidate in Serie B, and I want to develop a strong tactical identity while we grow -hopefully- as a club. Basically, the tactical identity is solid compact defending and quick one-touch plays and short passing with the players always minded to go forward in attack. For the first 2-3 seasons, as I battle with relegation the first year, I will try to develop the identity step by step, gathering the right players until I can finally have a team prepared for Serie A and for my style of play. 

So the first year, I'm trying to play a defense minded game with quick, short-passing counter-attacks, so my main focus is defensive solidity. I made two tactics, one for lower/similar quality teams, and one for slightly better/better teams that you can see below in order:

 

For the TIs, Float Crosses is used because I have 1m85+ strikers with good heading and jumping

PIs: CMsu/DMsu - Hold Position, DLPde - Close down less, CMat(only 4-2-3-1) - Take More Risk, Move into channels, Dribble More, Close down more

With my 4-4-1-1, I tend to win against similar quality teams and for lower quality teams, I put my wingers on Attack and I tend to smash them. With my 4-2-3-1, I am very solid in defense, but I really struggle to make effective counter-attacks. I have also experimented to replace the Trequartista with a Target Man on At duty. Also, I don't use the same player in the AMC/CMat slot for the two formations, there is one player for each formation for these positions.

Here are all my results, and at the left of the scores I've put  "expected result"/ formation used  for example win/4411 means I was expected to win by media and used 4-4-1-1 for the match

Copa games stats:

Serie A games stats:

Three league games, three 0-0... And note that the win in coppa against Serie A side Empoli was a header from a free-kickat the 79th, and they had a mansent off at the 68th

Good side:

• No goals conceded, and more than that, 1 goal conceded in 11 fixtures (friendlies included)
• Defense locks the game completely, 
• Good results when compared to expected results
• Dominate similar/lower quality opponents
• in 5 competitive matches, faced 51 shots, 14 on target, 1 goal (10 shot/m, 2.8 ontarget/m, 0.2 g/m)

Bad side:

• No goals scored, ineffective counters against better opponents
• Can't identify opponents weakness in-match (first 15mins)
• Can't identify opponent's match plan in-match (first 15mins)

So how can I modify my tactics to be more clinical and effective on counters? Should I just be happy to be this solid in defense and continue to lock matches?

How can I exploit opponent's weaknesses or match plan during the match?

Finally, how can I change my ST role to be more goal-minded against better opponents? As a TQ, he tends to find space and link up with the wingers/SS against similar/lower quality opponents, but against better opponents, he's never there for a long ball, never in good positions...

Thanks in advance  

EDIT: I restrict myself to variations of 4-2-3-1, 4-4-1-1 and 4-4-2 only because I want to play with a 4-4-2 formation in Serie A.

 

[herne79]

2 hours ago, gam945 said:

So how can I modify my tactics to be more clinical and effective on counters? Should I just be happy to be this solid in defense and continue to lock matches?

First of all, great job so far .

I've highlighted the above because there is a big trap which many people (myself included in the past) can fall into, and that's running before you can walk.  You start getting good results, maybe even top of the league and suddenly it's "sweet, how can I kick on and improve now from here" and we forget that we're only relegation candidates.  We get carried away and before we know it the long term goal of continuous improvement becomes a short term goal.

There is nothing wrong with your system.  Re-read that sentence .  If there were, you wouldn't be seeing the results you are.  What's missing at the moment is better players and they come with time.

Now don't get me wrong - I'm not for one moment saying be happy with what you have.  Always strive to improve, always be ambitious.  Just remember your starting point and keep a hold of the expectations.  Your Board aren't expecting much, neither are your players so don't put too much pressure on yourself just yet.

With regards your striker, does the player have the Trait "comes deep to get ball"?  If not then you may struggle to get him fully involved with your shadow striker or midfielders.  The "hold up ball" PI may help here if you continue to use a Trequartista or change him to a support duty striker such as a DLF or F9 to encourage more link up play.  If you change anything, make small changes to begin with and check how they work out before making more changes.

You have a plan and you're going about things in a great way.  Keep it up .

[Tom8983]

What Herne said.

Though if it were me I'd have swapped the DLP-D and CM-S around in your first tactic, so your IW isn't possibly impeded cutting inside, plus the winger might get better support from a CM-S.

And on your second tactic, I'd be worried about having wing backs against better opposition as they could venture too far up the pitch which isn't in line with your defensive approach.

But it seems to be mostly working, so great!

[gam945]

54 minutes ago, herne79 said:

First of all, great job so far .

There is nothing wrong with your system.  Re-read that sentence .  If there were, you wouldn't be seeing the results you are.  What's missing at the moment is better players and they come with time.

Thank you, it's encouraring as that's the first time since january (when I bought a FM for the first time) that I arrive this far into my career, every other saves were a mess and I'd reload new saves before preseason ends 

54 minutes ago, herne79 said:

With regards your striker, does the player have the Trait "comes deep to get ball"?  If not then you may struggle to get him fully involved with your shadow striker or midfielders.  The "hold up ball" PI may help here if you continue to use a Trequartista or change him to a support duty striker such as a DLF or F9 to encourage more link up play.  If you change anything, make small changes to begin with and check how they work out before making more changes.

I would rather want my striker to be in the good place at the good time when receiving through balls or long balls, and to be as much as he can in scoring positions (even if my players don't feed him with good balls), I think I expressed badly myself, sorry. So maybe a Poacher would be more suited for this?

40 minutes ago, Tom8983 said:

Though if it were me I'd have swapped the DLP-D and CM-S around in your first tactic, so your IW isn't possibly impeded cutting inside, plus the winger might get better support from a CM-S.

Nice suggestion, didn't even thought about this. I'll test this in the next game to see if it has any impact, even though the CM-S has a Hold Position PI

41 minutes ago, Tom8983 said:

And on your second tactic, I'd be worried about having wing backs against better opposition as they could venture too far up the pitch which isn't in line with your defensive approach.

Wanted to encourage crossing and initiative from my wide players, and combined with a Defensive/Very Denfensive mentality they have Cautious/Defensive mentality while being on Support.

That also leads me to this theorical question: What's the difference of a system with the most possible Attack roles but in Defensive mentality and a system where the most possible Defend mentality but in Attacking mentality the A/D roles, mentality is the same?

For example a WB-A on Defensive mentality and a WB-D in Attacking mentality or even a CM-A/CM-D?