Getting the best out of a DLP-Su

[RPM_01]

Has anyone had any luck with a DLP-Su? I love the idea of the role and think someone like De Jong has great attributes for it however I can never incorporate it into a formation without it creating problems. In a 4-2-3-1 I have tried pairing him with a runner (BBM/Mez) but it creates defensive issues as there isn't really a sitter. If I try pairing him with a CM-D the midfield doesn't seem to create enough attacking options and both sit fairly close to each other.

When I try him with a holding midfielder it feels like my midfield is too defensive, even with say a Mez-A, one side just seems to be lacking the attacking spark. I know the role can work well, I'm just struggling with ways to find out how.

Tactic 1 -

 

Tactic 2 -

 

Tactic 3 (few variations of this one but mainly tried) -

Again I've tried different tactics but just can't seem to get it to work too much.

[Snorks]

With the 4231 I would always have my DLP on Defend - unless I was throwing caution to the wind. He tends to hold position a little better and doesn't leave the gaps in the middle.

Pretty much any 'runner' as a partner worked pretty well with him, although I tend to be more cautious with the midfield pair in a 4231 - you already have four players up front, i liked the two CMs to play behind them.

In a 4141DM- Wide, I would have a DLP in either the DM or the CM strata - the DM would be a Defend duty and a CM either Def or Support depending on how cautious I wanted to be.

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by Snorks

[Vali184]

Dlp s and cm d is a very good combination, coupled with an attacking role in AMC.

I would change the AML to W-a and the AMR to IF-s, make the striker a PF-a, increase tempo because you want fast transitions if the opponent is parking the bus and go wider. If they sit deep, lower the line of engagement to draw them out.

Experiment with the offside trap.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

 

3 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

In a 4-2-3-1 I have tried pairing him with a runner (BBM/Mez) but it creates defensive issues as there isn't really a sitter

Your defensive issues could well have to do with the extremely urgent pressing (and possibly also counter-press), not necessarily the DLPsu and BBM. 

 

4 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

If I try pairing him with a CM-D the midfield doesn't seem to create enough attacking options and both sit fairly close to each other

The problem with the attacking side of your tactic is that it looks like a possession overkill (i.e. possession for the sake of possession):

- not a single attack duty

- 2 playmakers close to each other, and both on support duty

- shorter passing, lower tempo and PoD all at the same time, plus WBiB (on top of that) 

[sporadicsmiles]

As @Experienced Defender said, the first tactic looks designed to create a lot of possession without ever actually trying to score (I think your third tactic approaches something more like how I would set up a 4231).

With the DLP, it depends what you want him to do. When I am using a DLP, I think of him as the midfield heartbeat. He will be in the middle third of the pitch making himself available for the pass, and then bringing in my attacking players into play. That does not mean he should be raking accurate through ball assists all the time. While that is part of his job, it is not the main one. Think of him as the glue that holds your side together. An attack does not work? Recycle the ball to the DLP and try again. Need to bring the ball out from defense? DLP can go get it. Need to try to draw the attention of opposition midfielders? DLP. This is not a guy who is going to necessarily get 30 assists in a season, but he is going to be critical to what you do (and he will get the assist for the assist quite often). I play with a DLP and he is without a doubt the key to my side. In my current save I still moved to Dinamo Zagreb, and still have Lovro Majer in 2021. He is so much better than everyone else that he simply destroys sides. Not necessarily with assists, but by cutting sides open with his passing.

There are so many ways you can try to make it work. Within the 4231, you can imagine something like this.

When you build from the back, the DLP will have at least 4 passing options in general. A ball left to the other midfielder. A ball to the Treq (who will drift around). A ball to the right to the IF. A ball to the right to the FB(A) (who may either be close to the DLP or bombing down the wing). Possibly even a pass wide to the WB(S). There is no way for a team to deal with that. This is not the important part though. The important part is what the player who gets the ball does after the DLP gives it him. The second CM can feed the ball to the W(A). He can link to the T(A), he can slide a ball to the CF(S). He can go back to the DLP if there is nothing on. The Treq can give the ball to either flank, can run himself, can link with the CF. The FB(A) can cross the ball or give inside to the IF or Treq. The IF can drive into the box, give on the overlap to the FB(A), pass to the striker, to the Treq. You see that the DLP can put a player into a position where they can be dangerous. Then you need your DLP to be able to choose which is the best thing to do when he has the ball. If he can draw players onto him as well to create space, even better. Playing like this, I would actually expect the Treq and second CM to get the most assists (and the wide players from crossing). I would make sure those positions had players with good vision and passing too. But they would not function properly without the DLP. The DLP is not a role you can use in isolation, it really needs to have the correct roles around it.

This is definitely not the only way to set up a 4231, I wanted to illustrate to you the line of thinking I use. If you want a goal scoring, assist giving player maker, then one of the three AM slots is what you want. I hope this helps somewhat in giving you some ideas of what to try.

[summatsupeer]

I think the issue here might be what the role does vs what you expect from him.

Your transitions are slow so pushing defences back rather than looking for direct early passes into space. In these systems he's more of a link player, its unlikely he will be the assister.

On higher mentalities, support players will be riskier and not want to play backwards unless they really have to, even with all those possession orientated instructions. This might be why in your systems with multiple defend duties he lacks options.

Are you just not using the right role for what you expect from him in your system?

[RPM_01]

Thanks to all the replies - it's definitely given me something extra to think about.

@Experienced Defender The crazy thing is that 4-2-3-1 with lots of support duties has probably been my most successful tactic but it's not exactly how I want to play the 2 midfielders as the DLP is typically on defend. I'll tweak some of the TI's and see if there is any improvement from there.

@sporadicsmiles The aim for the DLP for me is to be slightly more free than what a DLP on defend is. I want him picking the ball up from the defenders or the holding midfielder and starting moves from there and like you say being the heartbeat of the team. 

@summatsupeer You might be right - the DLP-Su may not be the right role but I'd like to try at least making it work one way to see how he performs at his best.

[Guerin]

4 hours ago, sporadicsmiles said:

Recycle the ball to the DLP and try again

This is where the value of the DLP is for me. I think tactically you want to have one very adventurous attacking side of the pitch and the other a bit more conservative. Stick the DLP on the more conservative side. That way, you drag the opposition to one side of the pitch and then quickly move the ball, via the DLP, to the other side to exploit the space. The fact he holds position comes in handy too as you can generally pair him with more aggressive attacking roles beside and in-front.

[summatsupeer]

4 hours ago, RPM_01 said:

 

@summatsupeer You might be right - the DLP-Su may not be the right role but I'd like to try at least making it work one way to see how he performs at his best.

What is "at his best"?

Is it number of passes and high completion percentage to effectively link play? That's what I expect him to be doing already except having other playmakers will take away from his touches.

Or do you want more key passes and assists? In that case id want to be more direct/quicker with players attacking sooner for the DLP to put them directly through on goal or at least in space to make a run at goal, if this is too wide then the DLP probably won't get the assist.

[zlatanera]

I’ve had fun with a DLP-Su, in an Attacking system. Twice with a BBM in 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 and once ahead of a DM-De in a 4-3-3:

Those systems basically lived by the idea of scoring 1 more than the opposition (although it was usually 3+ - won the Champions League final 6-3). 

I saw above you saying you wanted him slightly more aggressive with his passing or something to that effect, if you use a DLP-De but then use “Exploit The Middle” it will increase his mentality (along with any other De duty CMs, DMs and DCs) which on higher mentalities leads to the DLP himself being on a positive mentality. 

Check out this thread:

I’m on my phone right now so scrolling is a nightmare but I think his 4-2-3-1, the one that explains what I’m getting at, is on page 6 or 7 although the whole thing is a good read.