TimmyFlex - a slightly different way to play.

[timcliffsmith]

Basically, this is a 4-5-1, but I told myself I was just going to play players in their best positions and roles. The wingers can be in the wide mid or wing position, and the centre mids can be DM CM or AM, but with a max of 1 in DM or AM.  Well, quite frankly, the results have been  ridiculous. I took over Forest Green at the bottom of League 2 and who hadn't won for the first 8 games. I'm now undefeated in 30 league games and hardly concede a goal. I'm going to post it here just in case anyone fancies having a pop. I'm not going to do a big explanation at this stage of the life of FM19, just a quick diagram.

                                   ST

                  LW           AM           RW

                   LM   CM CM  CM  RM

                                  DM

                      LB    CB   CB    RB

                                  GK

Okay, just to explain again. I don't touch the position of the players in bold. The wide men are an either/or, just depends on their best position. And for the centre mids, there are always three, but a max of 1DM and 1AM. So, I might have all three as CMs (with the most defensive in the mid). Or I might have 2CMs and a DM or an AM. Or, 1DM, 1CM, and 1AM. I just play them in whatever is their best position and role (except the CBs are always on DEF - that is, not stopper or cover). I never touch the team instructions or change mentality. But, obviously, when you make a sub, you may have to switch the position or role of the sub coming on to their favoured options. Anyway, I'll be interested to know if this doesn't work for anyone. In a way, I hope it doesn't, because then it might kickstart my interest in FM19 again. I am going to playtest this now with the worst team I can find and see how it goes. However, my conclusion about FM19 is that, like FM18, the balance is terrible. If you find a tactic that works, it just works. If not, you do awful. Of course I'll buy FM20, cos this is still the best management game around, but the balance of this game has not been good for a few years.

I just tried this with Cardiff in the Prem. First season, no transfers.

First five games:

                                F-A

Man City (H)          2-0

Bournemouth (A) 1-4

Watford (A)            1-0

Brighton (H)           2-0

Newcastle (H)        3-0

I think it's safe to say that this works at all levels. Apart from the aberration of the Bournemouth game, normal service.

 

TimmyFlex.fmf

Edited October 10, 2019 by timcliffsmith

[LPollard7]

Going to try this!

are there any midfield combinations you look for when building your team and which midfield shape do you find most effective for certain games ie: home, away, underdog etc..

[timcliffsmith]

22 hours ago, LPollard7 said:

Going to try this!

are there any midfield combinations you look for when building your team and which midfield shape do you find most effective for certain games ie: home, away, underdog etc..

Honestly, I haven't found anything that doesn't work. I suppose I tend to look for balance: 1 def minded, 1 support and 1 attack minded. Home, away, underdog, favourite, doesn't matter. I've stopped using this because it's too good. I can tell you a combination that works amazingly, if that is what you're looking for: Centre backs can be whatever role but on defend (pace helps a lot because you hold such a high line). Have full backs as wing back (support), midfield three of DLP (def), either in the DM or central CM role, doesn't matter.  Then, have a box-to-box on one side and a mezzala (attack) on the other. For the widemen, inverted wingers work brilliantly in the RM/LM position (support or attack seems to make no difference); or, in the RW/LW positions, inside forwards work really well (again, support or attack). Up front, I haven't used all types, but pressing forwards and target men (any mentality) are very effective. 

The reason I started this was because I thought it would be more difficult to find the right blend of players, but anything seems to work. You won't win every game, and occasionally you'll concede a few, but generally it is very solid and, over the course of a season, you will far exceed your predicted league position. I will be interested to see how you get on, especially if you struggle. I have found this to be pretty much bomb proof. The most interesting thing about it is watching the variation in play when you bring in different roles. However, it always seems to do well.

All the best. 

[ffrancis]

Hi,

I really like your template and all the ideas behind. Just started new save, trying to understand all of them  When I go to PI there are some which are not the same for both wingers for example. Should I leave them as they are or should I change them somehow?

Thanks

[timcliffsmith]

8 hours ago, ffrancis said:

Hi,

I really like your template and all the ideas behind. Just started new save, trying to understand all of them  When I go to PI there are some which are not the same for both wingers for example. Should I leave them as they are or should I change them somehow?

Thanks

You can change them however you like. That is only what was working for me with the players I had with that squad. I put the wide men in either the RM/RW or LM/LW positions and just play them in their best roles. The only things I keep consistent are the defend role for the centre backs and at least one central mid (plus a max of 1 DM and 1 AM). Also, it is good to always have one defending midfielder, either DM or CM. 

This tactic was based on trying to make the game more interesting. I basically buy the best players I can and just play them in their natural positions and best roles. That is why the players don't have individual instructions.

In an update to my OP, I am currently playing my first season with Cardiff in the Prem. I am happy to say that I am not smashing everybody. I am actually only 14th in mid-November, but I am very happy with this because I know this tactic can be very successful if you get the right combination. I can't stand tactics that win everything. It makes players pointless, when you can just put anybody in and win. Since I know that this tactic can work brilliantly (see OP and 30 games unbeaten with Forest Green), I don't touch the instructions, just look to buy better players and tweak the positions. If I need to chase a game, I might even take off a midfielder and put on an extra striker; or, to defend, take off an AM and put on a DM. But, I always start the game with a basic variation of the 4-5-1. For example:

This is the side I just scraped a 1-1 draw at Arsenal with (although I was lucky to get that). This is my best formation at the moment. Ralls or Arter would normally start ahead of Damour. The other option with the players I have is this:

As you can see, only a slight change in formation, but some of the player roles are different. This is only because these are the players I have. The only thing I don't touch is the flat back four. Paterson is actually best suited to a WB role. However, If I had different players, I could play this, for example:

Or this:

As you can see, my players don't fit those roles and positions, but if they were the best players I had, that is how I would set them up. The base TimmyFlex formation just reflects the best players I had at Forest Green.

I am interested in what works and what doesn't. Some will work better than others. And, I find it interesting to watch the different roles playing in different ways. I expect that whatever you do will exceed your predicted position, but some might be inconsistent and some might blast the league. I like not quite knowing. I think this is the way I will play FM from now on.

I hope you enjoy playing this way. 

All the best.

[ffrancis]

First 4 games:

 

[timcliffsmith]

30 minutes ago, ffrancis said:

First 4 games:

 

Solid. What formation are you going with?

I'm currently 10th in my game with Cardiff after 18 games (predicted 20th). As you can see, I am by no means smashing the league, but the games I am losing are mainly away or to big sides. At the moment, I am conceding too many goals. I think this is because my centre backs are not that quick. But, against everyone else I have been competitive. This is what makes me happy. I want a game in which I actually celebrate when I score a goal, rather than just expecting to win 9 games out of 10. I hope you're enjoying it, too. Post a screen shot of your first choice players in formation, I'd be interested to see.

[ffrancis]

This one is the most succesfull now:

 

 

I also use 4411 but its maybe more offensive and leaking more goals.

Edited October 18, 2019 by ffrancis

[timcliffsmith]

35 minutes ago, ffrancis said:

This one is the most succesfull now:

 

 

I also use 4411 but its maybe more offensive and leaking more goals.

How come the central defenders are not fully green in the roles?

That's an interesting one. I have not yet had a straight five across the middle. Inverted wingers do work very well. How is the defensive winger doing?

[ffrancis]

The reason is that one of them doesnt have stats high enough to be fuly green and the second one has the best role as cover. 

And for the def winger. His best position is left mid. But I dont have any suitable right winger right now. He is doing quite good. I had to give him some special PI. The one I would notice is to stick to the position because he was opening the right side of the field too often (when pressing players with the ball)

[timcliffsmith]

12 hours ago, ffrancis said:

The reason is that one of them doesnt have stats high enough to be fuly green and the second one has the best role as cover. 

And for the def winger. His best position is left mid. But I dont have any suitable right winger right now. He is doing quite good. I had to give him some special PI. The one I would notice is to stick to the position because he was opening the right side of the field too often (when pressing players with the ball)

Yes, I have some players like that in central defence. Regarding your def winger. I deliberately do not give them PI because if they leave a gap like that I take it as part of the game. I only do this because the game is too easy; you kind of have to leave weaknesses otherwise it becomes boring. 

[ffrancis]

2 hours ago, timcliffsmith said:

Yes, I have some players like that in central defence. Regarding your def winger. I deliberately do not give them PI because if they leave a gap like that I take it as part of the game. I only do this because the game is too easy; you kind of have to leave weaknesses otherwise it becomes boring. 

But thats what makes me enjoying the game. I like to analyse the strenghts and weaknesses of players and help them perform better with the right choice.

[smagaius]

Amazing stuff.

 

I only use it as a 4-2-3-1 with both CD in defence and both CM as Defence or Support depending wich is the stronger in each player (never use an atacking role in MC spot). These are the only rules i follow.

Every role is the strongest of the player chosen i just follow the upper indications in the mentality.

 

Once they get into it its a joy to watch with unbeliavabl results.

 

Edited October 25, 2019 by smagaius

[timcliffsmith]

3 hours ago, smagaius said:

Amazing stuff.

 

I only use it as a 4-2-3-1 with both CD in defence and both CM as Defence or Support depending wich is the stronger in each player (never use an atacking role in MC spot). These are the only rules i follow.

Every role is the strongest of the player chosen i just follow the upper indications in the mentality.

 

Once they get into it its a joy to watch with unbeliavabl results.

 

Hi, glad you're enjoying it. I honestly haven't found a combination that doesn't work. The only one that is weaker is if you don't have a def mid of some type (as it can leave you too open to the counter, or if you have both fullbacks who are defensive, as then you don't create as much. However, they still over achieve.

I'm now playing a Welsh only game with Cardiff and Wales. I've put Colwyn Bay and Merthyr Tydfil in the North and South Conference, respectively. Maxed out all Welsh clubs youth systems and given them sugar daddies. As the name suggests, as Cardiff, I can only sign Welsh players. And then  try to win the World Cup with Wales.

First season, finished 7th with Cardiff, but Wales proving a bit tougher as there is no decent def mid.   

[dom.march]

Le 25/10/2019 à 19:36, smagaius a dit :

Amazing stuff.

 

I only use it as a 4-2-3-1 with both CD in defence and both CM as Defence or Support depending wich is the stronger in each player (never use an atacking role in MC spot). These are the only rules i follow.

Every role is the strongest of the player chosen i just follow the upper indications in the mentality.

 

Once they get into it its a joy to watch with unbeliavabl results.

 

Hi, can you please post your tac ?

[frutloopz]

Do you happen to have the base for FM20?

[smagaius]

Someone has a base for this one?

[timcliffsmith]

Hi there, 

This was my tactic for last year. I've not tried to rebuild for this year. I'm using a new one, which is a tweak of 433_Davautje. It's his tactic, I've just adjusted the set pieces. 

However, I've been doing it like last season, just playing players in their best roles and positions. BUT, this is not as good as the TimmyFlex, but that is better for me, I prefer something that takes longer but that I have faith in. What I've found with this is that the 433 formation works best: that's 1DM and 2CM with 2 high wingers. The DM can be in the DM position or in the centre of the three in the CM slots. If in the DM position, you can play a support role, but if in the CM slot, it needs to be defensive. I've not had much luck with an AM, though you can bring the wide men back instead of having them as wingers. It's very solid when you get it right, but I have suffered the occasional spanking against the top teams.

With Cardiff, I lost in play-offs first season, then comfortably won the league, then spent four seasons building (11th, 7th, 10th, 7th), then spent some big money on the midfield (two 30m pound players - Bellingham and Cuisance, with Valverde in the DM role - and had a brilliant start to the season and then tailed off a little but clung on to win the Prem .

This is the sort of thing I prefer, rather than blasting the league.

Oh, I'm playing on the beta 20.2.4

If you fancy a slower experience, use this.

I don't use any OP and player instructions are just the standard for the role.  

433_DavautjeTim.fmf

[smagaius]

well i can say i've tried timmyflex original tactic in the last update and its working in a 4-2-3-1 shape.  Just added "more expressive".

Its not as good as last year but it's consistent and fun to play.

[timcliffsmith]

15 hours ago, smagaius said:

well i can say i've tried timmyflex original tactic in the last update and its working in a 4-2-3-1 shape.  Just added "more expressive".

Its not as good as last year but it's consistent and fun to play.

Really? Interesting. Might give it a go then, especially if it's not as good as last year. When you say you tried it, do you mean that just copied the base set up and instructions? Or, can you import the tactics directly? 

I've just checked, you can import directly. I'll give it a go now. 

[smagaius]

1 hour ago, timcliffsmith said:

Really? Interesting. Might give it a go then, especially if it's not as good as last year. When you say you tried it, do you mean that just copied the base set up and instructions? Or, can you import the tactics directly? 

I've just checked, you can import directly. I'll give it a go now. 

tell me how it goes...

[smagaius]

Someone used this kind of tactic in FM2021?