RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 13 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said: Referees not giving penalties against the Old Firm. And Willie Collum being his usual dickish self. Loving the realism of FM this year. I have no idea whether 20 penalties in five game weeks is excessive or not (4 a week across 6 fixtures), but it's not the '10 penalties in one game' line others are using, that's for sure. You can stick another onto Collum, just gave a penalty against me in the Cup. My last five games have seen four penalties now, last ten have about seven. I'm planning a signing based entirely on the fact hes great at penalties as I'm getting one around every three games. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: 20 penalties after 5 game weeks. Seems a spread across all referees too. May be worth simulating this until the end of the Season and see if there's a bigger difference. However, there is a thread in the bug section already in which multiple playeres Managing in the Ladbrokes Permiership report a huge Influx of penalties -- so Maybe their Attributes may be all to "blame" to a Degree. Question is, which is it. Back when I discovered how unrealistic the "discipline" Attribute used to scale with the average amount of bookings (unrealistic amounts vs barely any at all), I had contacted a Researcher. Not only wasn't he Aware of that he told me that Researchers wouldn't be given proper Guidelines by SI when Rating a ref. So every country's Research was "encouraged" to not merely do his own Thing. With some Attributes they also had to go by gut Feelings, very lose definitions of what the Impact actually was, and upon enquiring to not "worry too much About it". This may have changed some since. Still worth taking a look. As a consequencve: Still remember the multiple reports of how Players Managing in Serie A would reicive a ton of bookings / sending Offs. Just Looking into the db it became apparent that the Italien Research used to create the most refs with high discipline Ratings by far. Whilst that may have been "realistic" insofar as refs in Italy can be more strict; it's obviously never been tested back then what the actual Impact was. No ref in Football would have ever averaged 6-7 bookings per match, yet that was what the Italian Research encouraged to happen in-game. Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 I'm doing a Hibs save on FMT this year, I've not touched it since it was updated as I've been too invested in my main save, might have a look and see if penalties have increased there too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Im sitting on 37 minutes in a game vs St Mirren and I've just had my 5th penalty all from tackles on the Right WB running into the box. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Release Day Blues Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 My CB just back-heels a freekick to the GK from the half line. This was in 19 beta also then taken out. Why has it returned back? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Think that's one for uploading to the bugs forum Thats 15 penalties in 8 matches now I think. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) In the German community meanwhile somebody took a look into international Performances of some refs. It's Pretty apparent from that sample size that there is a significant Variation at Play. Italian refs such as Orsato and Rocchi for instance over the still too small sample size averaged ~0.6 penalties per match, which is multiple times the average of typically 0.2-0.3 pens per match of actual Football. Those numbers in the Ladbrokes must be pretty interesting… may actually be worth to get the Scottish Research involved too. However I'd also check if it's exclusively your own sides first likewise. Any Competition you enter is simulated by the match engine by Default, including AI vs AI Matches. Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 37 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: You can stick another onto Collum, just gave a penalty against me in the Cup. My last five games have seen four penalties now, last ten have about seven. I'm planning a signing based entirely on the fact hes great at penalties as I'm getting one around every three games. And another penalty in the very next game... I wouldnt mind, but I'm literally only conceding goals through penalties, and most show the defender winning the ball. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treble_yell_:-) Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, Svenc said: In the German community meanwhile somebody took a look into international Performances of some refs. It's Pretty apparent from that sample size that there is a significant Variation at Play. Italian refs such as Orsato and Rocchi for instance over the still too small sample size averaged ~0.6 penalties per match, which is multiple times the average of typically 0.2-0.3 pens per match of actual Football. Those numbers in the Ladbrokes must be pretty interesting… may actually be worth to get the Scottish Research involved too. However I'd also check if it's exclusively your own sides first likewise. I can't see an easy way to see missed penalties since the patch in my game, but in 7 rounds of League fixtures there have been 17 penalties scored and I have scored 11 of them (I've missed 4 more) There has been 2 Europa fixtures for me in that time as well with no penalties awarded. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: And another penalty in the very next game... I wouldnt mind, but I'm literally only conceding goals through penalties, and most show the defender winning the ball. Maybe all Scottish refs all have a "1" in "allowing flow" and "refereeing" and a "20" in Discipline or something. Plus a 20 in the hidden Attribute "match Fixing". Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Svenc said: Probably all Scottish refs all have a "1" in "allowing flow" and "refereeing" and a "20" in Discipline or something. Its definitely something with the Scottish refs, but it only seems to be domestically. Collum, for instance, doesn't seem to give penalties in the Champions League or Internationals, but fires them out in the league. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diddums Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Is there a demo? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spedding Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, Diddums said: Is there a demo? usually released when game is released. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Diddums said: Is there a demo? I'm sure its release the same day as the full release, so Tuesday. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diddums Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Spedding said: usually released when game is released. Just now, RandomGuy. said: I'm sure its release the same day as the full release, so Tuesday. Thank you both. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWG85 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 hours ago, Dagenham_Dave said: My forward has 27 goals in 40 games in the season I'm in. Many of which have came via through balls. I play with two wingers (who I sometimes change to IWs or IFs depending on the opposition), so the majority of assists being from crosses is something I would expect. Jordan Hulme wasn't doing the business then, Dagenham Dave? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Its definitely something with the Scottish refs, but it only seems to be domestically. Collum, for instance, doesn't seem to give penalties in the Champions League or Internationals, but fires them out in the league. Do you have the CL and internationals set to "full Detail"? Else it wouldn't go through the same Kind of Simulation, which is the Match Engine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 minute ago, Svenc said: Do you have the CL and internationals set to "full Detail"? Else it wouldn't go through the same Kind of Simulation, which is the Match Engine. How do I check that? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewS17 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just something interesting I thought to look at. I just had a match where I had 36 crosses. Thought that was a bit overboard, so decided to take a look. In the premier league, of all teams, Man City have attempted the most crosses. 323 to be precise, it seems. This is the team known for high tempo, quick passing and movement. And most teams would look to play a low block against them,given their dominance. City have played 12 games so far. That's about 27 crosses a match on average. Also. This could mean absolutely nothing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just gave up, full back gets in my box, defender wins the ball, penalty. "That seemed harsh" flashes up. Six games in a row. Will return to the save on Tuesday and hope its been sorted. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: How do I check that? Game Options menu, there is an Option that says "Detail Level". All the Competitions you personally enter are Always set to full Detail by Default, so that all Matches, including your competitions', are actually being "played" under the same match engine conditions. Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunstrikuuu Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: How do I check that? Open the FM menu and select Level of Detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomGuy. Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Svenc said: Game Options menu, there is an Option that says "Detail Level". All the Competitions you personally enter are Always set to full Detail by Default, so that all Matches, including your competitions', are actually being "played" under the same match engine conditions. 1 minute ago, Sunstrikuuu said: Open the FM menu and select Level of Detail. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rain94 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 11 minutes ago, MatthewS17 said: Just something interesting I thought to look at. I just had a match where I had 36 crosses. Thought that was a bit overboard, so decided to take a look. In the premier league, of all teams, Man City have attempted the most crosses. 323 to be precise, it seems. This is the team known for high tempo, quick passing and movement. And most teams would look to play a low block against them,given their dominance. City have played 12 games so far. That's about 27 crosses a match on average. Also. This could mean absolutely nothing. @Jack JoyceI had a strange match as well. I was playing Defensive Mentality with Narrow Defending Width. I was up against a much better side. The AI went 4/74 crosses. I won the game 1-0. Edited November 17, 2019 by rain94 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzabish Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Svenc said: They may not be irrelevant, however the Chance/space matters more than the Player who has it. Plus, this isn't even true. Just Looking around there are already plenty Players who consistently outperform the AI in that regard, by a landslide. You see, the reason why the AI is the only Entity (in particular Long-term) ever scoring Goals from few/er attempts is because: - The AI doesn't give a damn About any stat other than the Goals. - The AI oft Plays defensive Football, which means conceding the "shot/Chance battle" by choice - The AI manages Matches dynamically, rather than going "this is my super tacticz for this save", so may only start attacking late on, when it gauges it still has a Chance to salvage something. It may even make wholesale changes at HT when the result isn't going to plan etc. In other words, whilst it can't read a match a better Player is able to, it's still given simple means of "logically "reacting to the run of play What Players of this have been doing is the following, usually. Off-topic, so big fat spoiler inside. Hide contents They think they're like the Pep Guardiola of this game due to their General success (which typically, they are not, as they don't even understand their opposition). So typically, also because of the AI, they face few shots all over the Season. As the AI is sometimes far too defensively, those shots oft only ever come About by flukes, set pieces, Errors. The AI in particular on older Releases just would not push up enough numbers to work decent moves (likely reworked some for FM 20). In other words, they concede shots over the Season. Just as Guardiola. However few he does (5-6 average, typically.). Now he goes exclusively through all the Matches in which he conceded / dropped the Points. What is he gonna find, Sherlock? Honestly, go to Whoscored, and try it for all the recent three Seasons. For as Long as you don't concede shots over the Season, you will concede a Goal here or there. If you're one of the better Players, less so, if one of the average to worse, more so. There seems a good deal of pompousity in your post, old chap. I have played every version of the game that ever existed, and no the quality of the chances was really no different from those I had. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, TWG85 said: Jordan Hulme wasn't doing the business then, Dagenham Dave? I only joined Altrincham during the close season in 2020. Hulme wouldn't sign a new contract because he thought he was too good for us. Joke's on him though, as no-one signed him for about 9 months, so he gave up and became a (terrible) scout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagenham_Dave Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 30 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said: Its definitely something with the Scottish refs, Yeah, loaded up my Hibs save, and although there was only two penalties given in the first round of games after I loaded it, as luck would have it, Aberdeen, the team I was playing, got one of them and it was NEVER a penalty. Good clean tackle. Perhaps SI know how terrible Scottish refs are and have ramped it up to the max I checked the other game where a penalty was given (Motherwell, vs Ross County), and it was a stonewaller. Intriguing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 29 minutes ago, hazzabish said: There seems a good deal of pompousity in your post, old chap. I have played every version of the game that ever existed, and no the quality of the chances was really no different from those I had. Having played every Edition does not equal fully understanding what is going on. Indeed, some of the longest playing veterans have become accustomed to some of the biggest misconceptions. They've heard it all for so Long somewhere, so it must be true. I'm just trying to Combat this personally, not to have a dig. Sorry if it came off that way. It's just rather unlikely that the AI was ever improved too much if the suspiciious of "cheating AI" were to persist (and that is basically what was implied). If the AI were improved, its decision making were improved, and it would be even more "efficient". Because sometimes, the AI can still make quite odd choices hurting its Performance and making it less competitive than it could be. @RandomGuy This doesn't Show how the CL and the internationals (which ones) are set specifically. The CL should be filed under Continental Club Competitions -> Europe. The internationals should be where you are Right now, but you needed to scroll down for the European ones on the Right side of the page. Euro Qualifiers, I presume? I suspect the CL may be set to "latter stages" (in full) so IIRC it would only fully simulate the knock-outs in full, but not the Group stages or earlier. So that would make sense... Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWG85 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said: I only joined Altrincham during the close season in 2020. Hulme wouldn't sign a new contract because he thought he was too good for us. Joke's on him though, as no-one signed him for about 9 months, so he gave up and became a (terrible) scout. Ah, I see. Quite the plot twist. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigiluigi Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Do you not get a message to say players loan is about to expire? Just had someone leave in jan without the chance to extend, very annoying Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandaurov Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Hi. Do you know if the full game will be (substantially) different from the beta? I mean, match engine, bugs, etc.. I started a savegame in beta, and i would be happy to continue with it...if there aren't substantial changes. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Threadstarter Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 fwiw i was about to be awarded my fourth penalty before my game crashed, so I had the multiple penalties happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazzabish Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Svenc said: Having played every Edition does not equal fully understanding what is going on. Indeed, some of the longest playing veterans have become accustomed to some of the biggest misconceptions. They've heard it all for so Long somewhere, so it must be true. I'm just trying to Combat this personally, not to have a dig. Sorry if it came off that way. It's just rather unlikely that the AI was ever improved too much if the suspiciious of "cheating AI" were to persist (and that is basically what was implied). If the AI were improved, its decision making were improved, and it would be even more "efficient". Because sometimes, the AI can still make quite odd choices hurting its Performance and making it less competitive than it could be. @RandomGuy This doesn't Show how the CL and the internationals (which ones) are set specifically. The CL should be filed under Continental Club Competitions -> Europe. The internationals should be where you are Right now, but you needed to scroll down for the European ones on the Right side of the page. Euro Qualifiers, I presume? I suspect the CL may be set to "latter stages" (in full) so IIRC it would only fully simulate the knock-outs in full, but not the Group stages or earlier. So that would make sense... The thing is, the AI is only as good or as bad as the person who made it, and since football is not an exact science with exact answers then there's quite a good deal of 'computer says no'. It's a matter of breaking the code more than having any football knowledge. Edited November 17, 2019 by hazzabish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IvayLo Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Svenc said: In the German community meanwhile somebody took a look into international Performances of some refs. It's Pretty apparent from that sample size that there is a significant Variation at Play. Italian refs such as Orsato and Rocchi for instance over the still too small sample size averaged ~0.6 penalties per match, which is multiple times the average of typically 0.2-0.3 pens per match of actual Football. Those numbers in the Ladbrokes must be pretty interesting… may actually be worth to get the Scottish Research involved too. However I'd also check if it's exclusively your own sides first likewise. Any Competition you enter is simulated by the match engine by Default, including AI vs AI Matches. What the site of the german fm community? thx Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, hazzabish said: The thing is, the AI is only as good or as bad as the person who made it This exactly. Hence SI may be quite understandably cautious as to when and where to improve it -- and they must have received tons of Feedback from their tacticsl community throughout the years. However, the game isn't primarily aimed at FM's tactical community. As argued, the reason why the AI on the Occasion scores from few to fewer shots it that it doesn't care About the shots piling up+1 on a spreadsheet come the final whistle blown. It cares About the scorelines -- and makes dynamic match Adjustments accordingly. Shutting up shop to make it harder to score from the kick-off if Content with a draw; Throwing bodies forward ten minutes from time when chasing an Opposition lead at the hopefully ()calculated Risk of being countered; Making multiple Subs at HT and switching tactics to a plan B if Things don't seem to go to plan, and so on. Football isn't science, but surely such simple stuff is Pretty well understood and acknowledged for. 28 minutes ago, IvayLo said: What the site of the german fm community? thx Meistertrainerforum.de Edited November 17, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI Staff Seb Wassell Posted November 17, 2019 SI Staff Share Posted November 17, 2019 On 16/11/2019 at 09:57, wazza said: With Neil stating that the data is now locked except from possibly the odd manager change if its deemed necessary are the competition and rulegroup issues now upto date and won't be changed again for release Not necessarily. If you want to be sure, wait for release Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviemay17 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Does anyone know if there's a changelist released when the full game is announced ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nonlondoner Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 From memory, yes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigiluigi Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Can players get sent off for pushing/punching opposition? Like is it possible to wind someone up to get them sent off? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
martplfc1 Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Into which folder do F12 screenshots go? I can see that it's been captured in the bottom right and I have a screenshots folder, but nothing in it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlaaZ Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, martplfc1 said: Into which folder do F12 screenshots go? I can see that it's been captured in the bottom right and I have a screenshots folder, but nothing in it? You're looking in the wrong place I think. Go to the Steam app, click View and then Screenshots, and then use Show on disk for the right path. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KlaaZ Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 1 hour ago, kandaurov said: Hi. Do you know if the full game will be (substantially) different from the beta? I mean, match engine, bugs, etc.. I started a savegame in beta, and i would be happy to continue with it...if there aren't substantial changes. Thanks in advance. Even if it is, all fixes except for data changes (which is locked atm I believe, so there won't be any more of those) should get applied to running saves as well so any changes will impact your current save as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOODNAME Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Any chance that the full game will be tomarrow at 12:00 am? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, GOODNAME said: Any chance that the full game will be tomarrow at 12:00 am? I think that's usually the case I've booked Tuesday & Wednesday off work, so I'll go 48 hours straight 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOODNAME Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 8 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said: I think that's usually the case I've booked Tuesday & Wednesday off work, so I'll go 48 hours straight Last year the full game released in 12:00 am ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, GOODNAME said: Last year the full game released in 12:00 am ? I think so, sure a mod can confirm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
saihtam Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 49 minutes ago, martplfc1 said: Into which folder do F12 screenshots go? I can see that it's been captured in the bottom right and I have a screenshots folder, but nothing in it? f12 is steam screanshot, this will go to steam folder, easiest to find fromt settings. But FM has now alt+s I think, that will save to the old screenshot folder for FM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Johnny Ace said: I think so, sure a mod can confirm 5 minutes ago, GOODNAME said: Last year the full game released in 12:00 am ? The 2019 release announcement thread was created 19:26pm CET, November 1st. So i assume it was around that time the full release happened. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Ace Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 3 minutes ago, roykela said: The 2019 release announcement thread was created 19:26pm CET, November 1st. So i assume it was around that time the full release happened. Dammit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roykela Posted November 17, 2019 Share Posted November 17, 2019 Just now, Johnny Ace said: Dammit Keep the hope alive.Would be nice getting home from work, sit down and realise the game's just been released 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts