Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Bakiano]

8 hours ago, herne79 said:

I know balls over the top take a bashing, but this run from deep by my AMC is an absolute joy.

 

Is he playing as a SS?

[gechal]

I play on comprehensive and most of the time it's very difficult to get a good idea of what's happening. There's rarely a good flow to the game.

Nearly all of the highlights start from a dead ball situation, and of those most of them are free kicks.

Not only does it reduce the match into a collection of dead ball highlights, it is hugely frustrating. If my team has conceded 6 free kicks in the first half from the same position, I want to know what has taken place each time for that to happen so I can make adjustments. There's nothing worse than a highlight starting from a dead ball and a goal being scored from it. How does that add to the game experience?

The only way around this is either to watch it on full match or rewind, both not really practical.

On the rare occasion the highlights flow nicely the game is a joy to play.

[ChelseaFan]

Gone back to FM2019.

Just made my own database to reflect the FM20 changes.

I advise everyone who's too frustrated with FM20 to do the same. Enjoying FM again :)

 

[MBarbaric]

2 ore fa, autohoratio ha scritto:

Same issue with defending as the example Tiger666 posted above - The #4 CM isn't paying attention to his surroundings and is slightly out of position leaving a channel for your AMC to run through, and the #44 CB only reacts to the AMC's run when he's already sprinted past him.

It is very difficult to defend runs from deep because the runner quickly moves from one zone of responsability to another. Defenders are concentrated on their immediate surroundings/ball.it is even harder for a stationery defender to follow a player who is in full sprint. It involves a lot of comunication and concentration. If anything, the passer should have been closed down quicker, his pass might have been too good, timing of the run/pass were maybe too perfect, the back line was very high but all of that isn't out of realm of possible. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by MBarbaric

[Novem9]

10 часов назад, herne79 сказал:

I know balls over the top take a bashing, but this run from deep by my AMC is an absolute joy.

 

Just yesterday I wondered why all these teams play so high in defense, even if they are underdogs. The most funny thing I see opposite formation like 4-1-4-1 cautious/defensive but they still play high DL.
And I noticed this thing as issue already some time ago

[herne79]

2 hours ago, autohoratio said:

Same issue with defending as the example Tiger666 posted above - The #4 CM isn't paying attention to his surroundings and is slightly out of position leaving a channel for your AMC to run through, and the #44 CB only reacts to the AMC's run when he's already sprinted past him.

 

1 hour ago, Mitja said:

These goals all look same. Run from deep and nobody reacting at all. Not impossible but looks cheap. This would be huge decocentration of whole defensive unit. Usually it takes a little more to put man 1-1 with keeper.

Or it could just - you know - be a good move from my AMC.  It does happen, even in real life.  If the defending team defended perfectly every time nobody would ever score a goal would they?

In my opinion sometimes people get so caught up in wanting to see fault they see it in everything.  Sometimes the fault is deserved but other times...well why can't that just be a great run by the AMC which caught the defence napping?  If there is an issue there it's arguably with the my fullback making the pass and not being closed down but again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it was just a good pass and run from deep.

[gechal]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

Or it could just - you know - be a good move from my AMC.  It does happen, even in real life.  If the defending team defended perfectly every time nobody would ever score a goal would they?

In my opinion sometimes people get so caught up in wanting to see fault they see it in everything.  Sometimes the fault is deserved but other times...well why can't that just be a great run by the AMC which caught the defence napping?  If there is an issue there it's arguably with the my fullback making the pass and not being closed down but again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it was just a good pass and run from deep.

Thing is, I saw an exactly the same goal yesterday. The pass from the right sided player, the angle of the shot, everything.

[Jesper9000]

4 minutes ago, herne79 said:

 

Or it could just - you know - be a good move from my AMC.  It does happen, even in real life.  If the defending team defended perfectly every time nobody would ever score a goal would they?

In my opinion sometimes people get so caught up in wanting to see fault they see it in everything.  Sometimes the fault is deserved but other times...well why can't that just be a great run by the AMC which caught the defence napping?  If there is an issue there it's arguably with the my fullback making the pass and not being closed down but again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it was just a good pass and run from deep.

@herne79 It can happen sometimes, but we are talking about 5-10 times per match, it is not realistic. 

[Johnny Ace]

9 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Just yesterday I wondered why all these teams play so high in defense, even if they are underdogs. The most funny thing I see opposite formation like 4-1-4-1 cautious/defensive but they still play high DL.
And I noticed this thing as issue already some time ago

True

The way I understand D-Line (from the little note in the tactics screen) is, the D-Line sets itself when the opposition has the ball their own half, you can set the D-Line to the edge of your own box & it'll always be much higher in game  

[Novem9]

1 минуту назад, Johnny Ace сказал:

True

The way I understand D-Line (from the little note in the tactics screen) is, the D-Line sets itself when the opposition has the ball their own half, you can set the D-Line to the edge of your own box & it'll always be much higher in game  

For me the main trouble in dual meaning of mentality. Its time to take decision - low mentality is cautious aka we play by counter-attacks or cautious aka we hold positions and control ball in own half. For now AI 'confused' and mentality contradicts itself imo

[Novem9]

9 минут назад, Jesper9000 сказал:

@herne79 It can happen sometimes, but we are talking about 5-10 times per match, it is not realistic. 

Especially when perfect long passing happens in low leagues everytime, not sure about time for smile or time for cry in these moments

[Iwabik]

16 minutes ago, herne79 said:

Or it could just - you know - be a good move from my AMC.  It does happen, even in real life.  If the defending team defended perfectly every time nobody would ever score a goal would they?

Yes, but it should require some skills from a players to make a perfect run and a perfect pass. Now every single player can hoof it and it's perfectly timed with a runner. 

 

31 minutes ago, ChelseaFan said:

Gone back to FM2019.

I've also done that and you know what's the worst thing I realised? I don't miss any of the FM20. Sure, some of them are nice additions but nothing groundbreaking. Almost every FM up until now has at least one feature that made going back, at least for me, impossible. Not a case this year. 

[Mitja]

1 minute ago, Iwabik said:

Yes, but it should require some skills from a players to make a perfect run and a perfect pass. Now every single player can hoof it and it's perfectly timed with a runner. 

 

I've also done that and you know what's the worst thing I realised? I don't miss any of the FM20. Sure, some of them are nice additions but nothing groundbreaking. Almost every FM up until now has at least one feature that made going back, at least for me, impossible. Not a case this year. 

You think fm19 ME is better?

[herne79]

18 minutes ago, Jesper9000 said:

@herne79 It can happen sometimes, but we are talking about 5-10 times per match, it is not realistic. 

You are scoring 5-10 goals like that every match?  With that sort of AMC movement?  I don't and in fact it's so rare for me to score like that I decided to share a little gif.

So much negativity in this thread when all it is is simply a great goal.  The ME deserves to get criticised sometimes but sometimes it needs to be appreciated as well.

2 minutes ago, Iwabik said:

Yes, but it should require some skills from a players to make a perfect run and a perfect pass. Now every single player can hoof it and it's perfectly timed with a runner. 

Do the amount of long balls over the top seem unbalanced at present?  Yes they do.  But that doesn't mean every single goal scored is due to this unbalanced nature.

That run from deep - not from the def line - with that pass and finish is fantastic.  That's all it is - nothing else - and personally I enjoy moments like that.

[Mitja]

30 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

It is very difficult to defend runs from deep because the runner quickly moves from one zone of responsability to another. Defenders are concentrated on their immediate surroundings/ball.it is even harder for a stationery defender to follow a player who is in full sprint. It involves a lot of comunication and concentration. If anything, the passer should have been closed down quicker, his pass might have been too good, timing of the run/pass were maybe too perfect, the back line was very high but all of that isn't out of realm of possible. 

I dont think the problem is if it happens here and there. Its the frequency. Runs from that deep are easily picked up, passes intercepted..there are not many such cheap goals irl. From what Ive seen these goals and chances look same. But I agree that line does infact looks too high.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, Bakiano said:

Is he playing as a SS?

Yeh I revisited something I wrote about for FM17 (with F9/F10 combination).

 

[Johnny Ace]

16 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

For me the main trouble in dual meaning of mentality. Its time to take decision - low mentality is cautious aka we play by counter-attacks or cautious aka we hold positions and control ball in own half. For now AI 'confused' and mentality contradicts itself imo

Just had a quick look

 

 

I don't think I understand D-Line anymore, the ingame note has changed from what it said in FM19

[Novem9]

@herne79 Two goals in last 2 games which I play right now, one my score, one is opposite

1)

 

2) 

Different teams, different tactics, the same moments everytime

Edited December 16, 2019 by Novem9

[Johnny Ace]

10 minutes ago, herne79 said:

That run from deep - not from the def line - with that pass and finish is fantastic.  That's all it is - nothing else - and personally I enjoy moments like that.

So you should, it was a great goal & I fully agree, the ME deserves some credit for moments like that 

[Dagenham_Dave]

18 minutes ago, herne79 said:

So much negativity in this thread

Well, the day does end in a 'y'. 

[diddydaddydoddy]

Having read all this thread, I sympathise with people's frustrations with the ME - it certainly has a few issues. There are some seriously OTT reactions though and there must be a number of under 10's playing the game going by some of the posts too.

I've played the game since CM days and with every iteration the game has had imperfections, the ME included. The complexity of the game increases yearly and the fact its is a simulation of football, it will never be perfect. 

My experience with FM20 and the ME is positive though. With 1 v 1's, I average a goal around every 1 in 3.5 chances. I do get a few balls over the top from my CBs but not excessive and there are occasions where my IF/IW's just go for goal. BUT I play as Liverpool, so I have Mane/Salah scoring the number of goals you'd expect in a season. I'm happy that VVD passes direct on occasions that's what happens in real life. I have CM's contributing to through balls and the attacking phase too. So maybe my / Liverpool tactics are best suited to the ME - a gegenpressing variation with high line, attacking 4123.

I have seen great animation - rabona's, overhead kicks, wonderfully executed through balls, whipped crosses, sliding tackles. But I have frustratingly also seen Matip score a hat trick of headers from corners in one game, slightly too many crosses being blocked and Firmino scoring too many goals (just started playing him as a Pressing Forward on defensive mode - which makes his goal output more realistic now).

Bottom line the game has never been, and never will be, perfect. So be more realistic with expectation and utilise the Demo option before forking out next time. The ME is not unplayable - FACT, it is a lot harder to play the game though for sure. So use these forums to constructively give your feedback, that's what they are there for.

Edited December 16, 2019 by diddydaddydoddy
Meant Demo not Beta option

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, Novem9 said:

Different teams, different tactics, the same moments everytime

ok but why post them - both are completely different to the one I posted.  Neither of those shows an AMC making a run from such a deep position.  That's the point which most seem to be missing here - not the pass but the starting position and run.  Look how deep my AMC is when he starts his run - in your two examples the attacker is practically level with the def line when he runs.

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Having read all this thread, I sympathise with people's frustrations with the ME - it certainly has a few issues. There are some seriously OTT reactions though and there must be a number of under 10's playing the game going by some of the posts too.

I've played the game since CM days and with every iteration the game has had imperfections, the ME included. The complexity of the game increases yearly and the fact its is a simulation of football, it will never be perfect. 

My experience with FM20 and the ME is positive though. With 1 v 1's, I average a goal around every 1 in 3.5 chances. I do get a few balls over the top from my CBs but not excessive and there are occasions where my IF/IW's just go for goal. BUT I play as Liverpool, so I have Mane/Salah scoring the number of goals you'd expect in a season. I'm happy that VVD passes direct on occasions that's what happens in real life. I have CM's contributing to through balls and the attacking phase too. So maybe my / Liverpool tactics are best suited to the ME - a gegenpressing variation with high line, attacking 4123.

I have seen great animation - rabona's, overhead kicks, wonderfully executed through balls, whipped crosses, sliding tackles. But I have frustratingly also seen Matip score a hat trick of headers from corners in one game, slightly too many crosses being blocked and Firmino scoring too many goals (just started playing him as a Pressing Forward on defensive mode - which makes his goal output more realistic now).

Bottom line the game has never been, and never will be, perfect. So be more realistic with expectation and utilise the Beta option before forking out next time. The ME is not unplayable - FACT, it is a lot harder to play the game though for sure. So use these forums to constructively give your feedback, that's what they are there for.

Fantastic post, the mods should pin this somewhere. 

[Novem9]

5 минут назад, herne79 сказал:

ok but why post them - both are completely different to the one I posted.  Neither of those shows an AMC making a run from such a deep position.  That's the point which most seem to be missing here - not the pass but the starting position and run.  Look how deep my AMC is when he starts his run - in your two examples the attacker is practically level with the def line when he runs.

I said more about empty space in reason of high DL. Your example is good without a context, I guess that Tottenham scored the same goal IRL, but after so many long passing for empty space behind the back I reacted negative sorry  

[Novem9]

Btw about long passing. If you dont set tactical style manually game set it for

For me it happened every time at least and I played different styles.

I guess game detected my style as 'route one' exactly in reason of many many long passes which I didnt ask from my team

[alian62]

17 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Having read all this thread, I sympathise with people's frustrations with the ME - it certainly has a few issues. There are some seriously OTT reactions though and there must be a number of under 10's playing the game going by some of the posts too.

I've played the game since CM days and with every iteration the game has had imperfections, the ME included. The complexity of the game increases yearly and the fact its is a simulation of football, it will never be perfect. 

My experience with FM20 and the ME is positive though. With 1 v 1's, I average a goal around every 1 in 3.5 chances. I do get a few balls over the top from my CBs but not excessive and there are occasions where my IF/IW's just go for goal. BUT I play as Liverpool, so I have Mane/Salah scoring the number of goals you'd expect in a season. I'm happy that VVD passes direct on occasions that's what happens in real life. I have CM's contributing to through balls and the attacking phase too. So maybe my / Liverpool tactics are best suited to the ME - a gegenpressing variation with high line, attacking 4123.

I have seen great animation - rabona's, overhead kicks, wonderfully executed through balls, whipped crosses, sliding tackles. But I have frustratingly also seen Matip score a hat trick of headers from corners in one game, slightly too many crosses being blocked and Firmino scoring too many goals (just started playing him as a Pressing Forward on defensive mode - which makes his goal output more realistic now).

Bottom line the game has never been, and never will be, perfect. So be more realistic with expectation and utilise the Beta option before forking out next time. The ME is not unplayable - FACT, it is a lot harder to play the game though for sure. So use these forums to constructively give your feedback, that's what they are there for.

This may be true but when researching a game that states on its website …….Simulation Gaming Perfected and Acclaimed and Enhanced game engine !! Do we not then expect this or do we go by what your saying that the game will never be perfect even though the makers are promoting the fact it is

[davehanson]

19 minutes ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Having read all this thread, I sympathise with people's frustrations with the ME - it certainly has a few issues. There are some seriously OTT reactions though and there must be a number of under 10's playing the game going by some of the posts too.

I've played the game since CM days and with every iteration the game has had imperfections, the ME included. The complexity of the game increases yearly and the fact its is a simulation of football, it will never be perfect. 

My experience with FM20 and the ME is positive though. With 1 v 1's, I average a goal around every 1 in 3.5 chances. I do get a few balls over the top from my CBs but not excessive and there are occasions where my IF/IW's just go for goal. BUT I play as Liverpool, so I have Mane/Salah scoring the number of goals you'd expect in a season. I'm happy that VVD passes direct on occasions that's what happens in real life. I have CM's contributing to through balls and the attacking phase too. So maybe my / Liverpool tactics are best suited to the ME - a gegenpressing variation with high line, attacking 4123.

I have seen great animation - rabona's, overhead kicks, wonderfully executed through balls, whipped crosses, sliding tackles. But I have frustratingly also seen Matip score a hat trick of headers from corners in one game, slightly too many crosses being blocked and Firmino scoring too many goals (just started playing him as a Pressing Forward on defensive mode - which makes his goal output more realistic now).

Bottom line the game has never been, and never will be, perfect. So be more realistic with expectation and utilise the Beta option before forking out next time. The ME is not unplayable - FACT, it is a lot harder to play the game though for sure. So use these forums to constructively give your feedback, that's what they are there for.

Sorry, disagree with everything you have said, more or less.

 

I am old enough to also have played every single game from the first CM on the Amiga to now. The ME now is as bad as I can remember. You can't utlisie the Beta until you buy the game, it isn't possible, so that is just factually incorrect.

I am having success, top of the league and winning most games. However, some of the things that happen in game are just ridiculous. Long balls over the top, despite setting the DL at low, must happen 5 or 6 times a match. It doesn't just happen to me, I do it to the AI too. Fortunately though the 1v1's are very rarely scored from so it keeps the scores down.

Shooting from the IF's or the Wing-backs from stupid angles is still there despite players being in open space to pass to. Wingers stopping before crossing the ball and then proceeding to smash the ball into opposition shins.

The game isn't harder, the ME is just more broke which means we have to figure ways around it. It isn't enjoyable to be forced to play one way. People have given constructive feedback but when they feel they are not listen to what do you think will happen? They upload PKM's and saved games. As I said yesterday, I have no idea what SI are looking into and what they are not. As far as I can tell, in their words, they are generally happy with the ME.

[diddydaddydoddy]

13 minutes ago, prot651 said:

This may be true but when researching a game that states on its website …….Simulation Gaming Perfected and Acclaimed and Enhanced game engine !! Do we not then expect this or do we go by what your saying that the game will never be perfect even though the makers are promoting the fact it is

If on the site it does say 'Simulation Gaming Perfected' (had a quick look couldn't see that statement tbh) then their terminology is inaccurate in my experience. I'm aware of how marketing works and I will base my opinions and purchasing options on my experience of FM. You have the same options.

[Iwabik]

59 minutes ago, herne79 said:

That run from deep - not from the def line - with that pass and finish is fantastic.  That's all it is - nothing else - and personally I enjoy moments like that.

That's exactly the problem tho, you should enjoy this because it's a good goal created by moment (or two) of brilliance. But in the current state of ME I couldn't enjoy that because I've been seeing so many chances like that in most games I played and it's really hard to distinguish whether it's amazing play or just bugged defence.

 

1 hour ago, Mitja said:

You think fm19 ME is better?

At current states of both? Sure. But I also think that this year's ME has so much potential and if they manage to fix the biggest issues it can be the best ME ever

[diddydaddydoddy]

23 minutes ago, davehanson said:

Sorry, disagree with everything you have said, more or less.

 

I am old enough to also have played every single game from the first CM on the Amiga to now. The ME now is as bad as I can remember. You can't utlisie the Beta until you buy the game, it isn't possible, so that is just factually incorrect.

I am having success, top of the league and winning most games. However, some of the things that happen in game are just ridiculous. Long balls over the top, despite setting the DL at low, must happen 5 or 6 times a match. It doesn't just happen to me, I do it to the AI too. Fortunately though the 1v1's are very rarely scored from so it keeps the scores down.

Shooting from the IF's or the Wing-backs from stupid angles is still there despite players being in open space to pass to. Wingers stopping before crossing the ball and then proceeding to smash the ball into opposition shins.

The game isn't harder, the ME is just more broke which means we have to figure ways around it. It isn't enjoyable to be forced to play one way. People have given constructive feedback but when they feel they are not listen to what do you think will happen? They upload PKM's and saved games. As I said yesterday, I have no idea what SI are looking into and what they are not. As far as I can tell, in their words, they are generally happy with the ME.

You know I meant the Demo!!

You and I are using the same game, same ME. I am content with what I'm seeing and how the game plays out for me. You much less so. Both statements and experiences are true. There is no disagreement to be had. 

I don't have WBs shooting from stupid angles as a for instance, so logic suggests there is something I'm doing with the players at my disposable (coupled with team, tactics etc) that is different to you. You can choose if you wish to play around to try to find a different balance or not, that is dependent on how you wish to play the game.

The game is harder, more complex as there are more features and more variables within the game therefore, appearing year on year - some of which I choose to engage with others I'm glad I've got a decent AM for. 

Edited December 16, 2019 by diddydaddydoddy

[herne79]

2 minutes ago, Iwabik said:

I've been seeing so many chances like that in most games I played and it's really hard to distinguish whether it's amazing play or just bugged defence.

imo this is a perception thing.  There are long balls played from deep inside your own half that seem to cover half the pitch as a striker runs onto it who started their run from the def line position.  That is where things can be unbalanced but it may also spoil our perception of other events.

That goal I shared is nothing like that.  It's a run from deep followed by a medium range pass from roughly the half way line.  It's just a good goal.

Unfortunately many people who replied have simply seen nothing more than a long ball over the top and reacted accordingly, when the truth is very different.  Any example needs to be viewed in the cold light of day without prejudice but unfortunately the ME hasn't exactly helped itself which can thus cloud people's judgement.

[Novem9]

Despite I beat team of Bundesliga by my team from 3 Bundesliga in German Cup I I did not enjoy this.
I use balanced mentality and standart passing but all ME ideas come for push ball forward and run. For both teams, AI play the same despite I underdog and their manager has style is counterpressing. I dont see any pressing at all

 

P.S. Second goal of red teams. Supporters are delay reaction. I wrote about this issue with examples one year ago...

Edited December 16, 2019 by Novem9

[Tiger666]

It isn't just the match engine I have issues with. There are a load of things wrong with the game, UI issues, database issues, set piece issues, training bugs. I've started threads on set pieces being bugged, arrow keys not working in the inbox, in-game widgets bugged, views columns all over the place, columns not sorting correctly, schedule UI bugged and lots more. Most of these threads have never been acknowledged, are still in the game and will most likely never be fixed.

Some of the issues such as columns on views being bugged have been in the game for years, many threads have been created about it yet it's still there. It is annoying that we are asked to do the donkey work by submitting bug reports, submitting PKMs etc if a lot of what we submit never gets fixed. I just don't feel the urge to submit anything else as it seems all the Dev time is going in to crashes and technical issues judging by responses in the various bug sub-forums.

[MBarbaric]

1 ora fa, Johnny Ace ha scritto:

Just had a quick look

 

 

I don't think I understand D-Line anymore, the ingame note has changed from what it said in FM19

Depth of defensive line is related to the ball. If the ball is at the opposition goal, the back line will be higher up the pitch. How deep the defensive line really is you can best see when the opposition is in possession in the middle third.

1 ora fa, Novem9 ha scritto:

1)

 

 

2) 

 

Different teams, different tactics, the same moments everytime

Both of these situations come from different phase of play in respect to the original video posted by herne. The original has shown a positional attack v high DLine. That video actually presented a neat move.

Two videos you've pasted show different phase of attack. Basically, the team in possession is in their defensive third and attacks with direct balls behind the back line. Those are practically counter attacks. These are a known issue with current ME. The lack of examples from the original video show another weakness of the current ME (and FM16 as well). 

Basically you both show two different problems with the ME:

First, lack of good off the ball movement and vertical passing

Second, excess of effective direct passes behind the back line

I've already said why both of those happen so wouldn't dwell on that.

Edited December 16, 2019 by MBarbaric

[Novem9]

16 минут назад, Tiger666 сказал:

It isn't just the match engine I have issues with. There are a load of things wrong with the game, UI issues, database issues, set piece issues, training bugs. I've started threads on set pieces being bugged, arrow keys not working in the inbox, in-game widgets bugged, views columns all over the place, columns not sorting correctly, schedule UI bugged and lots more. Most of these threads have never been acknowledged, are still in the game and will most likely never be fixed.

Some interface issues still exist from FM18 and personally me raised them twice at least. Some issues like reset of widgets impossible to focus for issue but they exist still.

The most terrible thing for me after ME issues - newgens unbalanced from version for version. Looks like SI started to fix this in this year but if you check 203x year at least - out of proportion in compare of original DB of first season. Too few qualified players I mean. And newgens issue is not about you need examples. Just simulate your own save, fix for balance and simulate again, but this issue exist from FM17 at least.

But as I remember I played save in FM10 and newgens were balanced as I remember? I'm wrong?

Edited December 16, 2019 by Novem9

[Novem9]

8 минут назад, MBarbaric сказал:

I've already said why both of those happen so wouldn't dwell on that.

whatever, I didnt ask and know reasons myself  

[Johnny Ace]

17 minutes ago, MBarbaric said:

Depth of defensive line is related to the ball. If the ball is at the opposition goal, the back line will be higher up the pitch. How deep the defensive line really is you can best see when the opposition is in possession in the middle third.

Tried that too (see my bug report) and it was no where near where the little graphic says it should be 

ETA: I remember years ago, a guide on here saying a goal kick is where you see the DL being "set" as way to help see what sort of DLine the opposition were playing 

Edited December 16, 2019 by Johnny Ace

[bahrami]

I keep trying to give this game another chance, but honestly, the match engine on this game is the worst I've ever seen. SI should be ashamed of themselves for not working harder to address these issues quicker.

Here's another example, first game in (Watford vs Arsenal) the defender, Adrian Mariappa, is on the receiving end of a direct long ball counter attack and nearly scored. This is the centre-back... FFS.

 

 

And here's the save...

 

 

Edited December 16, 2019 by bahrami

[autohoratio]

3 hours ago, MBarbaric said:

It is very difficult to defend runs from deep because the runner quickly moves from one zone of responsability to another. Defenders are concentrated on their immediate surroundings/ball.it is even harder for a stationery defender to follow a player who is in full sprint. It involves a lot of comunication and concentration. If anything, the passer should have been closed down quicker, his pass might have been too good, timing of the run/pass were maybe too perfect, the back line was very high but all of that isn't out of realm of possible. 

That's a valid point, defending at the top level certainly requires strong organisation, communication and concentrated players. I agree the passer should have been closed down (where was the defending team's LW? Standing at the opposition's box?) but that is a tactical drawback to playing (i'm assuming) AML/R on attack duties, and it's. The LW being nowhere in sight relates to an issue I have with pressing in the game, because true counterpressing just isn't implemented, players will just press the ball carrier individually with no regard for pressing as a unit, closing down passing lanes, leaving other opposition unmarked, etc. All that said, it certainly is plausible that a good passer of the ball can be left in acres of space to send a pinpoint through ball for a runner from deep, and that in itself isn't a bug..

3 hours ago, herne79 said:

 

Or it could just - you know - be a good move from my AMC.  It does happen, even in real life.  If the defending team defended perfectly every time nobody would ever score a goal would they?

In my opinion sometimes people get so caught up in wanting to see fault they see it in everything.  Sometimes the fault is deserved but other times...well why can't that just be a great run by the AMC which caught the defence napping?  If there is an issue there it's arguably with the my fullback making the pass and not being closed down but again, it's not beyond the realms of possibility that it was just a good pass and run from deep.

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

imo this is a perception thing.  There are long balls played from deep inside your own half that seem to cover half the pitch as a striker runs onto it who started their run from the def line position.  That is where things can be unbalanced but it may also spoil our perception of other events.

That goal I shared is nothing like that.  It's a run from deep followed by a medium range pass from roughly the half way line.  It's just a good goal.

Unfortunately many people who replied have simply seen nothing more than a long ball over the top and reacted accordingly, when the truth is very different.  Any example needs to be viewed in the cold light of day without prejudice but unfortunately the ME hasn't exactly helped itself which can thus cloud people's judgement.

However, what I'm seeing is a lack of concentration in the defence, and a defensive midfielder who, instead of screening his CBs, moves out of position for no reason which leaves a gap for the opposition to run into. And then once the DM has been ran past, he is rubber-banded backwards despite not having seen Afolabi's run (animation issue? Unless he glanced over at the suspiciously empty space where he had been just a second ago and realised what had happened) As another criticism of the defending team, why is the #20 RCM not tracking Afolabi? He's looking right at him, along with the #7 LCM and the other opposition CM, but only realises that the run is happening once Afolabi is past the CB.

Maybe the long ball issue has clouded my judgement but this lack of defensive concentration and reaction time appears to be pervasive in FM20, and I struggle to see herne's goal as a team of weaker players/tactics genuinely losing out to a team of superior players/tactics rather than a wholesale imperfection in the match engine.

[alian62]

2 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

If on the site it does say 'Simulation Gaming Perfected' (had a quick look couldn't see that statement tbh) then their terminology is inaccurate in my experience. I'm aware of how marketing works and I will base my opinions and purchasing options on my experience of FM. You have the same options.

 

 

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

34 minutes ago, bahrami said:

I keep trying to give this game another chance, but honestly, the match engine on this game is the worst I've ever seen. SI should be ashamed of themselves for not working harder to address these issues quicker.

Here's another example, first game in (Watford vs Arsenal) the defender, Adrian Mariappa, is on the receiving end of a direct long ball counter attack and nearly scored. This is the centre-back... FFS.

 

 

And here's the save...

 

 

From the positioning of the players in the box, I can only assume you had a free kick/corner which was cleared and the centre half has managed to get on the end of it and initiate a counter attack. Not much wrong with that unless you can provide further context. I would have expected the CD to be in the box defending the set piece, but maybe that's not how they have their set pieces set up. As I said, more context needed. 

[Vali184]

The last 10 videos posted here look like it's the same goal, different kits and mirrored image sometimes.

[herne79]

14 minutes ago, autohoratio said:

That's a valid point, defending at the top level certainly requires strong organisation, communication and concentrated players. I agree the passer should have been closed down (where was the defending team's LW? Standing at the opposition's box?) but that is a tactical drawback to playing (i'm assuming) AML/R on attack duties, and it's. The LW being nowhere in sight relates to an issue I have with pressing in the game, because true counterpressing just isn't implemented, players will just press the ball carrier individually with no regard for pressing as a unit, closing down passing lanes, leaving other opposition unmarked, etc. All that said, it certainly is plausible that a good passer of the ball can be left in acres of space to send a pinpoint through ball for a runner from deep, and that in itself isn't a bug..

However, what I'm seeing is a lack of concentration in the defence, and a defensive midfielder who, instead of screening his CBs, moves out of position for no reason which leaves a gap for the opposition to run into. And then once the DM has been ran past, he is rubber-banded backwards despite not having seen Afolabi's run (animation issue? Unless he glanced over at the suspiciously empty space where he had been just a second ago and realised what had happened) As another criticism of the defending team, why is the #20 RCM not tracking Afolabi? He's looking right at him, along with the #7 LCM and the other opposition CM, but only realises that the run is happening once Afolabi is past the CB.

Maybe the long ball issue has clouded my judgement but this lack of defensive concentration and reaction time appears to be pervasive in FM20, and I struggle to see herne's goal as a team of weaker players/tactics genuinely losing out to a team of superior players/tactics rather than a wholesale imperfection in the match engine.

Every single goal ever scored in the history of the world, be that in real life, FM or wherever, some fault can be found.  The English players could have put in more effort to track Maradona's run in '86.  Italy could have closed down Pele or tracked Carlos Alberto better in '70.  The RCM could have tracked Afolabi or closed down my fullback (and no I'm not comparing that goal to Maradona or 1970 Brazil).

Or sometimes you just stand back and applaud a moment of joy.  If the only thing people can see in that goal are ME issues then I think that's a shame because that goal showcases what the ME is actually capable of.  I knew full well people would try to shoot it down when I posted it and reactions have not disappointed.  Maybe the real failing here is that the ME has driven some people to such distraction that everything they now see is perceived as being riddled with fault and so can no longer see the wood for the trees.  Perception.

It's not a long ball over the top; it's not a striker sitting on the defensive line; it's not a "wholesale imperfection of the match engine"; it's not even something people see lots of times each match.  But it's being associated with all of things because that's how some are now perceiving the ME and can only see fault. 

It's just a great run, pass and finish which caught the opposition flat footed.  That's all it is.

I can't wait to show you all some more good goals .

[bahrami]

41 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

From the positioning of the players in the box, I can only assume you had a free kick/corner which was cleared and the centre half has managed to get on the end of it and initiate a counter attack. Not much wrong with that unless you can provide further context. I would have expected the CD to be in the box defending the set piece, but maybe that's not how they have their set pieces set up. As I said, more context needed. 

No, the first picture is before the corner is taken. If you look closely at Torreira in the bottom corner right corner. Can you provide me any examples of a CB being in a position like Mariappa is? Don't know what more context can be needed than that lol.

 

The ME is broken. I don't know why so many try and justify everything that is reported.

Edited December 16, 2019 by bahrami

[bahrami]

3 hours ago, diddydaddydoddy said:

Having read all this thread, I sympathise with people's frustrations with the ME - it certainly has a few issues. There are some seriously OTT reactions though and there must be a number of under 10's playing the game going by some of the posts too.

I've played the game since CM days and with every iteration the game has had imperfections, the ME included. The complexity of the game increases yearly and the fact its is a simulation of football, it will never be perfect. 

My experience with FM20 and the ME is positive though. With 1 v 1's, I average a goal around every 1 in 3.5 chances. I do get a few balls over the top from my CBs but not excessive and there are occasions where my IF/IW's just go for goal. BUT I play as Liverpool, so I have Mane/Salah scoring the number of goals you'd expect in a season. I'm happy that VVD passes direct on occasions that's what happens in real life. I have CM's contributing to through balls and the attacking phase too. So maybe my / Liverpool tactics are best suited to the ME - a gegenpressing variation with high line, attacking 4123.

I have seen great animation - rabona's, overhead kicks, wonderfully executed through balls, whipped crosses, sliding tackles. But I have frustratingly also seen Matip score a hat trick of headers from corners in one game, slightly too many crosses being blocked and Firmino scoring too many goals (just started playing him as a Pressing Forward on defensive mode - which makes his goal output more realistic now).

Bottom line the game has never been, and never will be, perfect. So be more realistic with expectation and utilise the Demo option before forking out next time. The ME is not unplayable - FACT, it is a lot harder to play the game though for sure. So use these forums to constructively give your feedback, that's what they are there for.

I've been playing this game since the CM days too, but I must be under 10 because I legitimately believe this is the worst match engine ever constructed. 

 

[autohoratio]

2 minutes ago, herne79 said:

It's not a long ball over the top; it's not a striker sitting on the defensive line; it's not a "wholesale imperfection of the match engine"; it's not even something people see lots of times each match.  But it's being associated with all of things because that's how some are now perceiving the ME and can only see fault. 

It's just a great run, pass and finish which caught the opposition flat footed.  That's all it is.

I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree  The runner does catch the opposition flat-footed and it's a nice goal if you simplify it down to "midfielder makes a run + unmarked full back plays a pass + defenders switched off", yes, however it's the reasoning behind the opposition being caught flat-footed that I'm suspecting there's an issue in. I can't put the entire lack of concentration and awareness of the defence down to only bad defending and tactics - I can see why it might've played a part but considering there are other issues that may or may not be related to this one I'm inclined to think the general inability for defending players to concentrate on marking and tracking their opposition is because of match engine code that can be improved upon heavily.

[andu1]

Frankly i think that the ME just before the release was the best. I think it was ME v2016 ? Too bad that update had the determination bug... 

 

[diddydaddydoddy]

5 minutes ago, bahrami said:

I've been playing this game since the CM days too, but I must be under 10 because I legitimately believe this is the worst match engine ever constructed. 

Missed the point.

Referencing people posting with immature comments like an under 10, not because they think its the worst match engine ever constructed

Edited December 16, 2019 by diddydaddydoddy

[andu1]

9 minutes ago, bahrami said:

No, the first picture is before the corner is taken. If you look closely at Torreira in the bottom corner right corner. Can you provide me any examples of a CB being in a position like Mariappa is? Don't know what more context can be needed than that lol.

 

The ME is broken. I don't know why so many try and justify everything that is reported.

You provided feedback and yours is as good as any nd You found something that in doesn't happen almost at all in professional football. I for one have never seen a center back to go on his own on a counter attack from his own goal and almost score a goal. It's unrealistic.

[Domathon]

too many goals in my opinion played 1.5 seasons so far