Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

[Scott Jackson]

I've played quite a few matches since the update now and it has clearly had an effect on my team.

Much more of my play seems to be going wide now (no matter what I say!) and my AMC and striker are rarely involved, lot's of goals coming from corners or loose balls/deflections. I'm not seeing many long shots though, quite the opposite infact, almost never see one even attempted either by my team or the opposition.

My AMC managed lots of goals pre update (he's the main goal threat), it's dropped off hugely since, he is just not seeing the ball as much as he isn't even getting shots off or chances, same applies to the striker but he's a big lad so get's the odd header at a corner/freekick.

Noticing a lot less through balls in the centre or passes from deep into a central area or even a ball over the top to run onto. I don't feel like my tactical instructions make much difference to on pitch behaviour either! Play through the middle = 75% play on the wings, Shor passing = whatever the player fancies, Higher tempo = knock it about between the CBs and keeper for a bit before hoofing it to a player who heads it into no mans land.

[Gee_Simpson]

41 minutes ago, Crusho79bv said:

 

Nice. 

[Falkirk]

On 05/02/2020 at 15:03, JEinchy said:

I've played five games on the new patch and, to be honest, it's not much better than the public beta. My observations:

• Players are dribbling through each other like there's no collision detection at all. It's back to pre-public beta levels.

This is the one I notice more than the others. 

[bobbyb12345]

Still can't get over setting every passing setting to the shortest possible option only to spend the entire game watching your back four launching sixty yard long balls and ignoring better options short.

[thiagoanjo]

6 horas atrás, lex311085 disse:

I also looked at goal distribution in Europes top 3 leagues, Premier League, La Liga and Bundesliga this season and 71% are scored with the foot 16% headers, 10% penalties and 3% free kicks. I think thats more of an accurate representation if you want to look at popular competitions 

 

Do you think header = crossing, foot = don't?

I think you must look for something like what was the moves not what body piece finished.

Alfo free kick + corner + throw-in + penalty are one thing = goals from set pieces, that also can finish with both foot/head. 

The way that the player finishes doesnt matter, only matter what was de previous moves that the goal was created. 

[lex311085]

43 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

Do you think header = crossing, foot = don't?

I think you must look for something like what was the moves not what body piece finished.

Alfo free kick + corner + throw-in + penalty are one thing = goals from set pieces, that also can finish with both foot/head. 

The way that the player finishes doesnt matter, only matter what was de previous moves that the goal was created. 

Yes I know but after looking at the fact that 71% of goals are scored with the feet and 16% are scored with the head I don't think its realistic for Leo Messi to score 20 headers a season and 2 with his left foot. I think it does matter how goals go in otherwise its unrealistic but if you think that doesn't matter then play on

Edited February 9, 2020 by lex311085

[dannyfc]

1 hour ago, JEinchy said:

We want passers to not only be aware of who they can give it to, but also where other payers might move after he's released the ball. Easier said than done, of course. 

When you phrase it like that it puts into perspective the task at hand as the decision tree for each attacking moment must be huge. 

I do have sympathy for SI as you can't knock the frequency of patches over the last couple years. My fear now is they simply do not know how to address this issue of central play, rather than refuse to acknowledge it. The long balls at the start of release almost seem a compromise to remedy that. 

That Giroud example is bang on, but also applies to highly technical players who thrive in tight spaces. That reluctance to engage with the opposition really limits how you distinguish attributes like composure, first touch and strength. 

There was a post a few pages back that discussed how it feels like each player's radius or sphere of influence feels to large. Hence the reluctance to operate within less than 5 yards of a defender. Almost like the players are too big for the pitch. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by dannyfc

[mztr]

 

 

a few goals of my current walkthru of Serie C with Pro Vercelli

[Kyznar]

7 hours ago, FMLegend1983 said:

Lovely central play including a hat-trick from my AMC Olmo!

 

Look at them goals from a Newcastle point of view, first one is the passage of play after a Throw in, with static defending, been a problem for years. Second goal the Newcastle right fullback should be closing down, he is marking no one, stood in no mans land. And the forth goal the centre back does absolutely nothing to block the shot. Its not good play, its broken passive defending.

[thejay]

So I won 7 straight games with Betis playing an insane all out pressing tactic which the ai cant handle .

All goals i have scored were either long shots , cross or after set pieces , not a single one after a passing combination freed up a player.  All the goals I conceded were crosses or standards as well.

 

Despite that assist locations show through ball as the most frequent assist location , makes no sense at all but it does explain why some people claim they can play with combining through the middle and score goals after combinations .

They cant, i dont think this is possible with this me and the narrow defense instructions

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by thejay

[janrzm]

8 hours ago, FMLegend1983 said:

Lovely central play including a hat-trick from my AMC Olmo!

 

One mans meat is another's poison......While you celebrate what you see as central play, I can only despair at the "Zombie" defending. It's like a scene from The Walking Dead.

[sorrenmills]

It seems what this ME gives with one hand, it takes with the other. Still seeing far too many occurrences of wingers/forwards smashing crosses into defender's legs and far too many goals from set pieces and general penalty area pinballery. My 2 central defenders are on 31 goals between them and I'm still in March.

[baris28]

3 saat önce, Weller1980 said:

This is the variety of goals we have in the current ME. Sample taken from just one round of Prem games but, in fairness I've watched a lot of AI vs Ai games and this is very typical, rinse and repeat every time. Tactics don't make a difference to the type of goals scored. Too many goals from set pieces, crosses and long shots. There's simply not enough variety or randomness which results in a boring and predictable ME.

Assists

Corner 6

Free Kick 3

pen 1

cross 5

solo 1

long shot 3

short pass 1

 

 

Played a bit this evening again for 5 matches and watch a bit AI vs AI matches but I couldn't get into game still. More like was in the mood I've paid it so I should play more. But still..

Not enough variety of goals in open play, setpieces dominate. Whether creation of setpiece and these goals afterwards result of good tactics who knows. So unpredictable.

Edited February 9, 2020 by baris28

[WilltheWolf92]

I hope the issue of newgens with hardly no second nationality gets fixed, it's now worse than the previous update, very unhappy that this doesn't get fixed.

 

Topic: https://community.sigames.com/topic/498420-newgen-second-nationalities-less-than-10/

Edited February 9, 2020 by WilltheWolf92
typo

[Guest]

Where is the option which I have to choose HoYD for intake youths?

[FMLegend1983]

40 minutes ago, janrzm said:

One mans meat is another's poison......While you celebrate what you see as central play, I can only despair at the "Zombie" defending. It's like a scene from The Walking Dead.

That's a fair comment if it was my defending I would be livid but it's the AI's and believe it or not this type of dribbling happens rarely for me. We all know FM lacks in the animation stakes so in terms of taking people on this probably is the representation of that very thing and output via the match engine. I'd take this happening occasionally over complete shut out where AI defenders are op and the games are dull and boring. Main thing annoying me right now is lack of consitency from tactics, players and too many 1-1 all draws. Hardest FM yet for me.

Edited February 9, 2020 by FMLegend1983

[likesiamesefish]

One thing that I've felt a noticeable improvement with this game is AI transfers, at least in relation to regens. Really across the board things have improved but players move around much more realistically in the far future and this makes the game far more immersive.

[JEinchy]

I'm noticing a trend where central one-on-one chances have a high chance of being missed still, but wide one-on-one chances have a good chance of going in.

Even though both my strikers like to lob the keeper, I have never seen them lob the keeper. Ever. In six seasons I've not one single lob from anyone, so I can confidently say this PPM is defunct. 

[Meraklija Vujevic]

Won title with Spal in first season.

Entire season was played on my You tube Chanel.

Posting for people who complain that match engine is hard and success is not possibly.

[JEinchy]

@Meraklija Vujevic Out of curiosity, do you use the Tackle Harder/Mark Tighter PIs for any of your players?

[FMSD0]

31 minutes ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

Won title with Spal in first season.

Entire season was played on my You tube Chanel.

Posting for people who complain that match engine is hard and success is not possibly.

To be perfectly honest, success shouldn't be possible with a team like this and such numerous aggressive and contrary team instructions. If anything, that's alarming.

Edited February 9, 2020 by FMSD0

[thiagoanjo]

2 horas atrás, lex311085 disse:

Yes I know but after looking at the fact that 71% of goals are scored with the feet and 16% are scored with the head I don't think its realistic for Leo Messi to score 20 headers a season and 2 with his left foot. I think it does matter how goals go in otherwise its unrealistic but if you think that doesn't matter then play on

If that happens, it is unrealistic indeed

[Sharkn20]

17 minutes ago, gonefading said:

To be perfectly honest, success shouldn't be possible with a team like this and such numerous and contrary team instructions. If anything, that's alarming.

I 2nd this, it's being written up and down in the forums that AI can't cope with high pressing. So yeah this guy is basically bragging that is exploiting the match engine and try to shove his youtube show through our throats.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Sharkn20

[Tyburn]

31 minutes ago, Meraklija Vujevic said:

Won title with Spal in first season.

Entire season was played on my You tube Chanel.

Posting for people who complain that match engine is hard and success is not possibly.

Dominator tactic. Is this yours or did you download it? Not that it really matters. Your players got a lot of yellow cards, and look at that intensity! Pretty unrealistic achievement but grats... I guess. You beat the ME.

[craigcwwe]

26 minutes ago, gonefading said:

To be perfectly honest, success shouldn't be possible with a team like this and such numerous aggressive and contrary team instructions. If anything, that's alarming.

Immersion breaking if anything first season winning the league with a lower mid table side like Spal. 

[thiagoanjo]

26 minutos atrás, gonefading disse:

To be perfectly honest, success shouldn't be possible with a team like this and such numerous aggressive and contrary team instructions. If anything, that's alarming.

Look at the stars of his players, he could win for sure, nothing abnormal win a championhship with that squad 

[Elfking]

I don't think anyone has been saying the game is too hard now, in fact I think people are finding the opposite!

[thiagoanjo]

2 minutos atrás, Elfking disse:

I don't think anyone has been saying the game is too hard now, in fact I think people are finding the opposite!

It depends on your strategy, if you manage a big club and is looking for playmaking by the center, maybe you will find hard against small clubs, for example

[FMLegend1983]

5 minutes ago, Elfking said:

I don't think anyone has been saying the game is too hard now, in fact I think people are finding the opposite!

5 seasons in with Leeds still not won the Epl then again I don't use any exploits not too easy at all.

[Freakiie]

2 hours ago, thejay said:

So I won 7 straight games with Betis playing an insane all out pressing tactic which the ai cant handle .

All goals i have scored were either long shots , cross or after set pieces , not a single one after a passing combination freed up a player.  All the goals I conceded were crosses or standards as well.

 

Despite that assist locations show through ball as the most frequent assist location , makes no sense at all but it does explain why some people claim they can play with combining through the middle and score goals after combinations .

They cant, i dont think this is possible with this me and the narrow defense instructions

 

 

You shove the opposition all the way into the box and then play a very slow and patient game and wonder why there are no through balls? If it wasn't for, as you pointed out, the AI not handling heavy pressing well and condition in general being completely irrelevant in FM allowing you to press like madman for 90 minutes without issues you'd get overrun on the counter while being insanely easy to defend against because you endlessly ping the ball around.

6 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

Look at the stars of his players, he could win for sure, nothing abnormal win a championhship with that squad 

You realize star ratings are relative to your team and are thus completely irrelevant for judging how strong his team is?

[baris28]

20 dakika önce, craigcwwe said:

Immersion breaking if anything first season winning the league with a lower mid table side like Spal. 

I hope it's only that. Isn't it how they score should be important as well as AI in this simulation. I hope better simulation first and then better AI. 

[likesiamesefish]

In my opinion the reason why he won the league with SPAL is an AI issue rather than the ME being broken.

I don't really mind there being game breaking tactics out there, the AI just needs to develop better tactics of their own, especially at the elite level.

I don't think we are ever going to get an intentionally more difficult game though because the majority of people play more casually and might get turned off if they can't be successful.

[thiagoanjo]

14 minutos atrás, Freakiie disse:

You realize star ratings are relative to your team and are thus completely irrelevant for judging how strong his team is?

So, every squad have at least one 5 stars player on each position? Otherwise what is the reason the best player on your squad in that position is not an automatic 5 stars? 

[likesiamesefish]

8 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

So, every squad have at least one 5 stars player on each position? Otherwise what is the reason the best player on your squad in that position is not an automatic 5 stars? 

Not sure I've ever had a situation without a 5* potential player at the club. It's definitely relative to your club otherwise you wouldn't get two star players who would be five star at other teams in the same division.

[Freakiie]

27 minutes ago, thiagoanjo said:

So, every squad have at least one 5 stars player on each position? Otherwise what is the reason the best player on your squad in that position is not an automatic 5 stars? 

Wat.

How did you make that logical leap?

It's relative to your team, so it looks at how good a player is compared to the average standard of your team. In other words a 5* player would have to be far better than the average of your team. Situation like this rarely happen because well... either your player is way too good for your team and would be long gone before he reaches that point or your team average simply is so good that it's impossible to have someone far above everyone else.

For a relegation candidate in La Liga pretty much every player in the Real or Barca first eleven would be a 5* player. At Barca though the only one that might hit 5* is Messi and at Madrid, well don't think they have anyone now that Ronaldo left, since there's only like 4 players that would be that much better than the rest of the team in the entire world.

Edited February 9, 2020 by Freakiie

[bcereus]

They've made every damn team go into a low block which then leads to only higher tempos and mentalities being viable.

This would be fine if the restriction was players but it's not, this happens at every level. Not every team in the world is that organised and not every team has the players to play a low block but the match engine doesn't care.

That's why center play is not viable unless you are doing it at high tempos or counter attacking. Every bloody play goes outside because the AI just crowds the centre, it's exhausting.

Basically the match engine forces you to play a certain way because it's no longer about players ability, none of the mental stats mean anything anymore, every defender is prime Pique and can track every run and every pass with ease.

Football manager is no longer player based, the match engine decides everything and player stats mean jack.

What the hell happened to these games after FM 18? I noticed FM 19 was the first edition where they killed center player completely and it's carried over to this version. It doesn't seem like a bug, it seems like a decision was made. I haven't even done two seasons in this game, I get frustrated after 1 and a half. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by bcereus

[BigV]

26 minutes ago, bcereus said:

They've made every damn team go into a low block which then leads to only higher tempos and mentalities being viable.

This would be fine if the restriction was players but it's not, this happens at every level. Not every team in the world is that organised and not every team has the players to play a low block but the match engine doesn't care.

That's why center play is not viable unless you are doing it at high tempos or counter attacking. Every bloody play goes outside because the AI just crowds the centre, it's exhausting.

Basically the match engine forces you to play a certain way because it's no longer about players ability, none of the mental stats mean anything anymore, every defender is prime Pique and can track every run and every pass with ease.

Football manager is no longer player based, the match engine decides everything and player stats mean jack.

What the hell happened to these games after FM 18? I noticed FM 19 was the first edition where they killed center player completely and it's carried over to this version. It doesn't seem like a bug, it seems like a decision was made. I haven't even done two seasons in this game, I get frustrated after 1 and a half. 

I agree to some of what you're saying but please back up it up with evidence, evidence of each point would be useful in them changing it. 

[baris28]

So the simulation is correct about how goals scored but only AI programming fault for open space middle? Did anyone test player vs player I wonder. That's how good  strategy&simulation tested hotseat playing both sides by the same player.

[thejay]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Freakiie:

You shove the opposition all the way into the box and then play a very slow and patient game and wonder why there are no through balls? If it wasn't for, as you pointed out, the AI not handling heavy pressing well and condition in general being completely irrelevant in FM allowing you to press like madman for 90 minutes without issues you'd get overrun on the counter while being insanely easy to defend against because you endlessly ping the ball around.

 

The point of the passing and patient game is to pull the opponents defense apart and not just cross in , I said nothing about through balls only where the goals are scored from and what happens in reality.

 

The whole point is that its not possible to pull apart the narrow defenses with passing because the ai is not intelligent enough in terms of offensive movement and making the right passing decisions .

 

Not everyone wants to play constant counter attack football followed by high pressing .

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by thejay

[Muja]

If you need proof for the lack of central play, look no further than this:

Only a few games left before the end of the season, this is the list of the top assist-men of the league. 
They're all wingbacks and wingers, those who play on the side of the field. 
There's no single AMC player in that list, or even central midfielder for that matter, except for Stulac (but he's my player and I know he made those assists with set pieces).

The list of the top assist-men in the current Serie A season is quite different, As shown here.
Luis Alberto, Gomez, Pellegrini, Kulusevski, Bentancur, most assistmen play in the center of the field, almost all of them play as AMC in real life, and much of these assists are short through pass from just outside the box.

I'm enjoying the game but I think the current ME is failing to represent realistic central play because defenses sitting deep and narrow seems impossible to break with a central through pass, while it shouldn't be THAT difficult.
Besides, you can see it's not a "it's your tactic" problem, as it affects all the teams of the league, mine and AI's.

[EDIT]
Another thing that it's breaking the game's realism for me, is... (and this will unsettle most players, I'm sure) 

... tactics matter too much.

There, I've said it.
I'm managing Empoli in Serie A, freshly promoted... And I'm third after 34 games, I know I'm good but I shouldn't be THAT good, my players skills shouldn't allow us to be up there (and trash all bigger italian teams) even if Pep Guardiola himself was the coach instead of me. 
I expected a challenge to survive relegation, not to play in the Champions League the next year...

 

Edited February 10, 2020 by Muja

[bcereus]

1 hour ago, BigV said:

I agree to some of what you're saying but please back up it up with evidence, evidence of each point would be useful in them changing it. 

It's very time consuming for me to do this as I work and only have a few hours to play the game. I'd essentially be doing their job for them. Also I am 100% confident they already know this is an issue, some of their major updates were specifically about this issue. The problem is that they have discovered they've kind of coded themselves into a corner and they don't know how to fix it. That's why they killed the possession game and counter attack is the flavour of the match engine.

This game makes no logical sense. The idea behind possession football is primarily defensive and to also leave your opponents tired because they have to chase you around. This means it controls the opponent and also tires them out. I don't think the match engine simulates tiredness very well or errors in shape, this means players losing concentration after being moved about the pitch for the whole game. 

The ME keeps perfect low block shape all the time with any team, I've tried at Championship and Prem level, no difference, every team is perfect and they do what they intended, force the play outwide and force the cross.

Then you finally get to the crossing, your fullback or even winger will actually SLOW DOWN to let the opposition play catch up so they can block their cross, it's incredible. And you think maybe they are just very quick and can't do this for 90mins, NOPE they will close you down all day long with no mistake or tiredness.

So what does all this lead to for people trying to play the patient game and not fast counter attacking football? It means the play will be forced wide, your crosses will be blocked or your fullback just cuts back to the edge of the area where your midfielder takes a long shot. I've seen this so many times it's hilarious. That's why people are complaining about long shots and set pieces being the only goals they score. 

I would bet you the people ,like me, who notice these things play at a lower tempo which allows the AI to get into their uber duper low block and then the game is essentially dead once that happens.

Player stats mean nothing , every team weaker than you goes into a low block, your players refuse to play through balls and play ends up outwide. 

 

Rise , repeat.

[bcereus]

They made some major change after FM 18 that they are persisting with, this killed center play. They are continuing with what they did and essentially building on top of it.

FM 19/20 have the same issue, if it's rotten at the core, nothing you do to mess with the conversion rates and other minor tweaks will matter. There is a fundamental code base behind the lack of center play and they can't/won't change it back.

If it's the same next year, I'm not going to buy that game, it kills the simulation for me.

[thiagoanjo]

2 horas atrás, Freakiie disse:

Wat.

How did you make that logical leap?

It's relative to your team, so it looks at how good a player is compared to the average standard of your team. In other words a 5* player would have to be far better than the average of your team. Situation like this rarely happen because well... either your player is way too good for your team and would be long gone before he reaches that point or your team average simply is so good that it's impossible to have someone far above everyone else.

For a relegation candidate in La Liga pretty much every player in the Real or Barca first eleven would be a 5* player. At Barca though the only one that might hit 5* is Messi and at Madrid, well don't think they have anyone now that Ronaldo left, since there's only like 4 players that would be that much better than the rest of the team in the entire world.

So the league where you are doesnt make any difference in the stars? If your player in the Serie A are 3,5 stars at your squad, he can be poor for Serie A? 

[Muja]

1 hour ago, thiagoanjo said:

So the league where you are doesnt make any difference in the stars? If your player in the Serie A are 3,5 stars at your squad, he can be poor for Serie A? 

I think the stars represent the player's abilities compared to your GOAL for the current season.

If your goal is to escape relegation and your players have 5 stars, it means he's very good for THAT, not that he's among the best players in the league.

So, for example, in my save I manage Empoli in Serie A, and my striker Zaza has 4 stars. He'd have at least a star less if I was managing Juve

Edited February 10, 2020 by Muja

[FrazT]

4 hours ago, Cadoni said:

Where is the option which I have to choose HoYD for intake youths?

Check under staff, responsibilities

[LatZee]

While this discussion about the stars that no one in the world really understands is very fun, WTF are we even talking about?  There are no 5 star players there in the screenshot, in fact, no one has more than 3.5 stars :P

That aside, it's not all that unusual, SPAL has some very decent strikers (Petagna is one of best supportish big guy/deep lying strikers in the game, Pellegri is basically 19 year old mini Lewandowski, and Paloschi is still very decent) which is almost the only thing that matters in these stupid multi striker/super heavy pressure tactics that have been drastically overperforming (basically to the level where it can be called exploit) for more than a decade now. At least it's not that even more stupid narrow 4-3-3 that is basically non-existant in reality :P

[Meraklija Vujevic]

holiday mode no any transfers easy title with Werder in first season!

[Arnar]

5 hours ago, Muja said:

I think the stars represent the player's abilities compared to your GOAL for the current season.

If your goal is to escape relegation and your players have 5 stars, it means he's very good for THAT, not that he's among the best players in the league.

So, for example, in my save I manage Empoli in Serie A, and my striker Zaza has 4 stars. He'd have at least a star less if I was managing Juve

 

Stars are for how good the player is for the league youre playing in, well atleast that was the case for all games before this one. I dont know if they changed with this one because i didnt buy it.

[Tyburn]

Stars, in the tactic screen at least, relate to how good a player is in the role you’ve chosen for him and his importance for you squad overall.

Stars in the squad screen, or player profile show you how good he is/could be in your squad overall and are representative of his ability in the game world overall. They change all the time, they’re fluid, and they’re just a guide.

Knowing the players Spal possess they should not be winning the league. However with the right tactics teams can certainly over perform. Cloughs forest. Wilders Sheff United etc etc.

[Meraklija Vujevic]

Only amaters use stars  as orientation when picking team!