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Football Manager 2020 Feedback Thread

Neil Brock
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Posted by Neil Brock,

There's a number of issues which have been raised by the community, but having spoken to the match team in more depth, there's a few things on the radar. With one-on-ones it's not as simple as say 'players are missing too many', first of all, why are they missing them? Are they ignoring players in better positions and taking on shots from worse angles? Sometimes yes. But then we can't always have the players making the right decisions every time as that isn't realistic either. It's a real balanc
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Posted by Neil Brock,

This thread is for feedback on Football Manager 2020 ONLY. For feedback on anything else to do with Sports Interactive or the moderating team, please email forums@sigames.com where we will respond as and when appropriate.  Any post in this thread which is not feedback in regards to FM20 from this point on will be removed. Thanks. 
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Svenc

Svenc

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RBKalle said:

P.S. I'm saying that while on a 58 matches undefeated streak with Juventus. Although I do wonder how the same team struggle to overcome Perugia on Sunday and then procedes to obliterate Atletico 4-0 away on Wednesday.

 

Eh, Bayern won at Spurs 7-2 where every other shot went in, and then concecded to be tonked at home to Hoffenheim (who have just lost against Mainz 1-5... all of the Five Goals scored when Mainz were red carded down to ten) the next Saturday. This is a non-issue in a Football Simulation game, as far as I am concerned. :D In individual Matches of Football, literally everything goes. However, that the AI Managers aren't coded to specifically exploit tactical holes can lead to an added element of randomness here that wouldN't exist in actual Football. Generally, even structurally poor tactics of a Team in FM oft only tend to be really punished by Chance. And I don#t mean purely user tactics, mind. AI vs AI Matches are a Thing as well. For the Integrity of the Simulation, I'd get rid of obviously poor choices anyway...

What's the stance as of penalties as for SI, btw? Where are the issues, where are they not? The amount of them has that been fixed for all Competitions? Even for Messi, a Penalty on average should be roughly a ~80% Chance (his Long-term conversion is actually below 80%). Anybody familiar with Maths may be able to estimate that misses in sequence are Bound to happen at some Point for quite many, unless the game were "scripted". He's had 50% pen conversions in real Football for 2 Seasons out of 3 between 2015-2017. However, the actual Football world exists once, the FM one for as many times any of ist thousands of Players would start a save. If "weird" stuff wouldn't be Happening, I'd Question the Integrity of the "open ended" Simulation. I hate scripts such as "Messi shouldn't be ever able to miss Five in a row" though. :D  This can likely only be reliably gauged by Long-term internal testing over dozens of simulations though, as Frustration Reports may create a bias, where every user reporting the "weird" may chime in, whilst all the others just stay silent. 

As Tim Cain of Fallout fame found, sometimes even internal QA don't get the Concept of RNG. (How could I miss Five times in a row, despite a displayed 95% Chance of a head shot hitting the target?) The only way weird stuff wouldn't be Happening if you could get penalties to be close to 100% chances, which isn't realistic. The Question now is.. how often does it really happen over the simulations.

Edited by Svenc
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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, robinthebest said:

no way tactic will encourage a player to shoot often from byline, its never tactics, if you tell me its because of tactics, i dont think anyone will buy this game anymore

My wingers don't do it but i also know it's an issue.

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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, robinthebest said:

Okay, your wingers dont do it means its tactical related?

What I mean is no matter what the settings are, they shouldnt be doing that in the first place

In isolation, of course not? But my tactics are keeping them away from doing it as well.
And if they do do it does it then mean it is not tactical related, at all?

Wingers do it in real life. Happens all the time. I know. I'm a winger myself :D
It just doesn't happen as often as it does with certain tactics in this game.

Edited by roykela
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Ailleurs

Ailleurs

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, robinthebest said:

no way tactic will encourage a player to shoot often from byline, its never tactics, if you tell me its because of tactics, i dont think anyone will buy this game anymore

You should try to set "shoot Less Often" to all your players except your striker, you will see a lot of improvement in your tactics...

 

 

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fidelitywars

fidelitywars

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, pats said:

It proves exactly the point I think I'm trying to make. I wanted to restrict chances against a big team and wasn't bothered about creating chances in this match especially. Try playing as a mid table team against a top 4 team in your first season in one of the big leagues and show me you can create clear cut chances without getting hammered at the other end.

...and my point is that's not quite the achievement you think it is; it's not difficult to close games down in this ME as teams can't open up defences with creative passing.

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TheInvisibleMan

TheInvisibleMan

Posted
Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Ailleurs said:

You should try to set "shoot Less Often" to all your players except your striker, you will see a lot of improvement in your tactics...

 

 

But this is the problem. Whether this solves the issue or not, I don't want to have to tell all my players except the striker to 'shoot less often'. That's not what I want my players to do. I want my wingers cutting in and shooting, and my central midfielders shooting from the edge of the box.

We shouldn't have to compromise on instructions and use specific instructions like this simply to solve match engine issues.

Edited by TheInvisibleMan
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Mitja

Mitja

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, pats said:

It proves exactly the point I think I'm trying to make. I wanted to restrict chances against a big team and wasn't bothered about creating chances in this match especially. Try playing as a mid table team against a top 4 team in your first season in one of the big leagues and show me you can create clear cut chances without getting hammered at the other end.

You didnt overcommit? Two mezalas, TQ and two strikers? Practicaly you defend with 5 players. Only thing you proved is how easy is to play against bigger teams. And I really wonder how you managed to beat them with such open tactics. 

Edited by Mitja
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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mitja said:

Playing om loeer mentality and using width?

Balanced mentality and one notch wider.
They cut inside when there's opportunity for it. They mainly look for the cross but they also look for the shot themselves sometimes.
1834850661_Merknad2019-11-28021916.thumb.jpg.1b38909cb65c21d72d612f7b4c3009c8.jpg

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Mitja

Mitja

Posted
Posted

Maybe they cross because you are using wingers? Which means IFs and alike dont cross because they are not supposed to? Well I think IFs dribble down the line on weaker foot side far too much. Maybe shooting from byline is poirly represented cross? ;)

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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Maybe they cross because you are using wingers? Which means IFs and alike dont cross because they are not supposed to? Well I think IFs dribble down the line on weaker foot side far too much. Maybe shooting from byline is poirly represented cross? ;)

All of those are viable. Not arguing that one bit.

Your first line was a reason of why i jumped into the discussion. Because a lot of those who argued were arguing 'every winger' or 'every wide player' are shooting into the side netting "NO MATTER WHAT".
I joined because from what i see that is definitely not true. It's dependant on something. What exactly is it? That's what SI are trying to figure out.

Edited by roykela
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TOMetz

TOMetz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Simply scandalous that we're well over a week past release and that we have a ME where players refuse to cross and rather shoot the side netting, 1v1's rarely get finished and strikers are virtually invisible. No hotfix, nothing. Threads on the bug forum are simply being ignored.

Edited by TOMetz
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Mikke

Mikke

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, TOMetz said:

Simply scandalous that we're well over a week past release and that we have a ME where players refuse to cross and rather shoot the side netting and strikers are virtually invisible. No hotfix, nothing. Threads on the bug forum are simply being ignored.

And yet I don't have such a ME in my game, not even close. I only have a ME where one-on-ones are almost impossible to score.

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TOMetz

TOMetz

Posted
Posted
Just now, Mikke said:

And yet I don't have such a ME in my game, not even close. I only have a ME where one-on-ones are almost impossible to score.

Same here with the 1v1's, you're right.

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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Mikke said:

And yet I don't have such a ME in my game, not even close. I only have a ME where one-on-ones are almost impossible to score.

1 minute ago, TOMetz said:

Same here with the 1v1's, you're right.


And to spice it up a bit. I have none of either :D

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pats

pats

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mitja said:

You didnt overcommit? Two mezalas, TQ and two strikers? Practicaly you defend with 5 players. Only thing you proved is how easy is to play against bigger teams. And I really wonder how you managed to beat them with such open tactics. 

The mezzalas were on support, one of the forwards was false 9 and TQ was blocking the passing lanes in the center. In addition to this, I was using 'Be more disciplined' TI in addition to standard defensive line and standard LOE, which made it harder for Inter to play through the middle. All this on 'Balanced' mentality. So yes, I did not over-commit.

And this absolutely doesn't prove it is easy to play against bigger teams as I had just lost against Juventus, Milan, Lazio and Fiorentina. Also lost against Bologna and Spal. All of that with a wide 4-2-4 which is called over-commiting. I dare you try a 4-2-4 in your first season with a mid table team and show us all if it's "easy" to play against bigger teams. 

I'm not a tactical wizard by any means but sometimes people here  jump to conclusions so easily with regards to tactics without even understanding how it works. It's like they have years of real life managerial experience behind them. I find it funny.

Edited by pats
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Mitja

Mitja

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Posted
6 minutes ago, pats said:

The mezzalas were on support, one of the forwards was false 9 and TQ was blocking the passing lanes in the center. In addition to this, I was using 'Be more disciplined' TI in addition to standard defensive line and standard LOE, which made it harder for Inter to play through the middle. All this on 'Balanced' mentality. So yes, I did not over-commit.

Come on you went man vs man with your duty selection against one of the top teams in your league. How is that not overcommitment? Where is your defensive cover? You dont have extra man anywhere let alone where you need it most. 2 DCs against 2 strikers, 3 MCs against 3 MCs...you should have been trashed there ;)

 

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pats

pats

Posted
Posted
11 minutes ago, Mitja said:

Come on you went man vs man with your duty selection against one of the top teams in your league. How is that not overcommitment? Where is your defensive cover? You dont have extra man anywhere let alone where you need it most. 2 DCs against 2 strikers, 3 MCs against 3 MCs...you should have been trashed there ;)

 

You may be trolling here but I would like to explain anyway. It's 4v3 advantage in the middle for me. Inter's 3-5-2 against my 4-3-1-2. Here's your extra man. And before you begin, just because a TQ doesn't tackle, doesn't mean he is useless defensively. He will still hold his position and help defensively.

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Mitja

Mitja

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, pats said:

You may be trolling here but I would like to explain anyway. It's 4v3 advantage in the middle for me. Inter's 3-5-2 against my 4-3-1-2. Here's your extra man. And before you begin, just because a TQ doesn't tackle, doesn't mean he is useless defensively. He will still hold his position and help defensively.

Yes if you play Gattuso as TQ. Otherwise you dont have defensive outlet in TQ. And they didnt have DMd there.

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Svenc

Svenc

Posted
Posted

The public Bugs Forums are in parts a Nightmare. Too much stuff taking up time that -- in particular in Isolation -- shouldn't be reported as a bug. Unfortunately, that eats up dev time, which then makes Focusing on the issues at Hand harder. Mind you, nobody is doing that out of bad intentions. And Frustration is powerful.

Still, I've just watched another pkm uploaded in which the user claimed his Forward were as clear on Goal as it ever gets. No he wasn't. He was closed down and still had a keeper coming off his line to beat / not to hit. IT was almost a replica of Robben in that WC 2010 final. This can't ever be considered a bug in Isolation, same as a Forward missing a couple other chances (None of which 1vs1s). Now you can blame Players of this only this much though, mind. They're being taught such on TV by commentary ever week how easy it was to score a Goal. And hey, the game even apes that nonsense in its own commentary...

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CFuller

CFuller

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Svenc said:

The public Bugs Forums are in parts a Nightmare. Too much stuff taking up time that -- in particular in Isolation -- shouldn't be reported as a bug. Unfortunately, that eats up dev time, which then makes Focusing on the issues at Hand harder. Mind you, nobody is doing that out of bad intentions. And Frustration is powerful.

The match engine bugs forum can be particularly nightmarish. Just for starters, too many users post ME bug reports without posting PKMs, even though there's a stickied thread specifically asking them to post PKMs. Some users are even using the bugs forum to give (often destructive) feedback while using this feedback thread to report bugs.

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roykela

roykela

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Iwabik said:

I don't understand ratings in this game. I've just won 1:0 against much better side and we held them off perfectly the entire game. They created NOTHING. Best rating in my defence? 6.6.

There's an issue with ratings in the game at the moment. SI know about it and are on the case.

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Iwabik

Iwabik

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, CFuller said:

too many users post ME bug reports without posting PKMs

I wonder if it is possible to make PKMs necessary i.e. you can't post there if you didn't attach it. Also, I think that general "bug status" sticked thread could be helpful.

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plcarlos

plcarlos

Posted
Posted

I need to watch this game in full when finishded so that i can do a proper bug report:

image.thumb.png.1b664678706205561a25f715a03ef5e1.png

We are on control possesion, attacking mentality, with a defence retreating, and 3 (THREE) players in the middle... Where does the ball go?

1 - Back to the DC...

2 - Who then launches this out wide to the WB-D (Chilwell) - FYI the Longest pass of the bunch.

TI-s - Slightly shorter passing, Higher tempo, work ball into box.

I do NOT have play out of defence, altough the DC is Dier, playing as a BPD

This image on its own shows a lock of central play, and one of the reasons Full-Backs get caught off-side.

I will very shortly be doing the same insturctions on a blank slate, as I'm wondering if the Control Possesion Template (What i started with) has hidden codes over-ruling some of this  - Even so, NONE of the above should happen with that template\combo at all

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RandomGuy.

RandomGuy.

Posted
Posted
On 25/11/2019 at 20:12, Dagenham_Dave said:

I'm enjoying the game a lot this year, but do you want to know what I'm not enjoying?

No? 

Well, I'm telling you anyway. 

I'm not enjoying managing at a lower level and teams expecting you to pay full wages for loan signings. All of them. I haven't been able to source a single loan where the parent club pays all the wages. This might be more realistic (no idea if it is), but it's hugely frustrating when you're on a shoestring budget. 

Bit late but I've had two 0% loans at St Johnstone, one from Tottenham and one from Liverpool. Both 18 and signed on deadline day

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dannyfc

dannyfc

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Good to know it's still a thing then. 

For what its worth, I'm playing in the Conference and have two loanees on 20% wage contribution. 

Had a fair few clubs asking for 100% or high %, but seems realistic tbh. In early FMs it was far too easy to get numerous top PL youths for effectively free and romp up the leagues. 

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TOMetz

TOMetz

Posted
Posted (edited)

Is there a way to patch the ME yourself?

I remember from playing Total Club Manager and Fifa Manager back in the day (hey, we all make mistakes, okay?) that a lot of guys on the message boards just patched the thing themselves.

Edited by TOMetz
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TOMetz

TOMetz

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Reckon you could do a better job than those who do it for a living? 

I have two teams of six devs where I work, SI aren't the only people in the world who do this. And at least we'd get things done instead of sitting on this enormous piece of a **** ME without any communication from the big guys.

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TOMetz

TOMetz

Posted
Posted
Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Presumably these are 'devs' that have never seen the code for this game before? 

Your presumption is correct, of course.

I sense you're thinking what I'm saying is nonsense. And perhaps it is. But all I'm trying to do is to find a solution to get my team crossing instead of side netting every shot and scoring a 1v1 every now and then for a game that cost me 45 bloody euros with practically no intention or communication from the developer that they're aiming to do something about it.

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Dagenham_Dave

Dagenham_Dave

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TOMetz said:

Your presumption is correct, of course.

I sense you're thinking what I'm saying is nonsense. And perhaps it is. But all I'm trying to do is to find a solution to get my team crossing instead of side netting every shot and scoring a 1v1 every now and then for a game that cost me 45 bloody euros with practically no intention or communication from the developer that they're aiming to do something about it.

They've already communicated this - which they've no obligation to do of course. 

However, I would say that if you're seeing EVERY shot hit the side netting, that is worrying. I'm also sure SI would love you to upload that particular save as it would highlight a very useful insight into your particular tactical set up showcasing why EVERY shot goes into the side netting. 

Unless of course, you're wildly exaggerating. 

It's a conundrum. 

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Novem9

Novem9

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 часов назад, RBKalle сказал:

Ditto for wingers and wingbacks shooting from absurd angles instead of passing to a better-placed striker inside the 6-yards box. Or for top-class strikers missing 1-on-1s as if they were amateurs

 

Do you mean like this or something else? Actually SI did big work about shoot from angles imho. I shared some examples for them and it much better in compare of prev editions as I can see

 

I have realistic count penalties in my games and finishing too. No issues about 1 vs 1 so it looks strange at all

Edited by Novem9
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RandomGuy.

RandomGuy.

Posted
Posted (edited)

I'm also not getting wide players shooting from ridiculous angles. This is one Winger on attack duty playing in for another Winger on attack duty...

FWIW, the scorer was a 19yo dumped by the team he just scored against, who I signed for £5k in the Summer. This was a 84th minute winner.

Edited by RandomGuy.
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