Recreating the Xavi and Iniesta partnership

[ryandormer]

I've seen a post from a version of FM a few years ago that attempted to recreate the Barcelona tactic with Xavi and Iniesta as the CMs in a 4-1-2-3. If I remember correctly, Xavi was used as a DLPs And Iniesta was an APa. I have never managed to get that working. I tend to find that both playmakers get attracted to the ball, leaving large open spaces in midfield.

Has anybody managed to get such a partnership working? And if so, how did you fit it into the rest of the tactic (getting adequate attacking support from midfield, for example).

Thank you.

[kandersson]

Check this excellent thread by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

 

 

[eye-switcher]

From what i have Heard, Tiki-Taka is dead, in this ME (and in fotball overall?). I hope i am wrong though but i dont Think this ME lends itself to that kind of football. I tried in earlier versions and i succeded in getting very high possession and passing procentages but the shots on goal and clear cut chances where often low. It was sometime Beautiful though but often lacked a end Product.

If someone has been successfull replicate this kind of football with this ME it would be interesting to know more.

[herne79]

1 hour ago, eye-switcher said:

From what i have Heard, Tiki-Taka is dead, in this ME (and in fotball overall?). I hope i am wrong though but i dont Think this ME lends itself to that kind of football. I tried in earlier versions and i succeded in getting very high possession and passing procentages but the shots on goal and clear cut chances where often low. It was sometime Beautiful though but often lacked a end Product.

If someone has been successfull replicate this kind of football with this ME it would be interesting to know more.

The game's been out a day, a little early to be drawing conclusions.

btw that was also said about FM19 (which turned out to be wrong) and I see no reason why it can't be used in FM20 as well.

[eye-switcher]

1 hour ago, herne79 said:

The game's been out a day, a little early to be drawing conclusions.

btw that was also said about FM19 (which turned out to be wrong) and I see no reason why it can't be used in FM20 as well.

With the passing going on in this ME and the decision of when to make that pass ( e.g dont pass to an wide open player etc, dont pass the ball in a 3 on 1 etc) i dont have high hopes, but we will see.

[ryandormer]

3 hours ago, kandersson said:

Check this excellent thread by @Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

I think that's the article that I read, and it is brilliant, but it doesn't seen to apply very well to the new games, with the removal of 'team shape' as a selectable option. The only way to get 'very fluid' is with almost no attacking players (I think you can afford one). So I was wondering if anyone had successful replicated or imitated the partnership in the new games.

[hawkgg]

On 20/11/2019 at 20:25, eye-switcher said:

From what i have Heard, Tiki-Taka is dead, in this ME (and in fotball overall?). I hope i am wrong though but i dont Think this ME lends itself to that kind of football. I tried in earlier versions and i succeded in getting very high possession and passing procentages but the shots on goal and clear cut chances where often low. It was sometime Beautiful though but often lacked a end Product.

If someone has been successfull replicate this kind of football with this ME it would be interesting to know more.

Dont know if it is 100% tiki-taka, but i have managed so far to create a possesion-based style with lots of goals.

In possession TIs: much shorter passing, work ball into box, pass into space, express yourselves.

Mentality: attacking, but i adjust to positive or balanced if my possession numbers are low after 15 mins. For a Tiki-taka style i think the balanced mentality would be right.

I got the idea of combining much shorter passing with a higher mentality from this video by Rashidi, from 3:58: 

 

Edited November 22, 2019 by hawkgg

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

I think that the bigger challenge than the roles, is finding the right players 

[ryandormer]

4 hours ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

I think that the bigger challenge than the roles, is finding the right players 

You may well be right! But assuming I've found players that can broadly do those jobs, how would you recommend setting them up in 2020?

[astrxAIR]

35 minutes ago, ryandormer said:

You may well be right! But assuming I've found players that can broadly do those jobs, how would you recommend setting them up in 2020?

I am currently running a barca inspired system on a spurs save. At the moment I am using a midfield trio of a Half Back, a DLP support on the right, and and an AP attack on the left. I've never noticed it on previous fm's but this year you can instruct the AP to hold position, which is helpful as it means he'll stay within his own area of influence more and not automatically gravitate to where the ball is.  

[yonko]

1 hour ago, astrxAIR said:

I am currently running a barca inspired system on a spurs save. At the moment I am using a midfield trio of a Half Back, a DLP support on the right, and and an AP attack on the left. I've never noticed it on previous fm's but this year you can instruct the AP to hold position, which is helpful as it means he'll stay within his own area of influence more and not automatically gravitate to where the ball is.  

AP-A and DLP-S can also be instructed to "Stay Wider" which help with the spacing out. The AP can also be given Get Forward and Roaming instructions.

Those roles are not the hardest roles to get right. The hardest one and it always has been, is to get the Messi role right. 

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

9 hours ago, ryandormer said:

You may well be right! But assuming I've found players that can broadly do those jobs, how would you recommend setting them up in 2020?

My starting point would be Mezzala (Attack) for the Iniesta role and then either Roaming Playmaker (Support) or Deep-lying Playmaker (Support) for the Xavi role depending on how your interpretation. I like the Roaming Playmaker but felt that Xavi became deeper as he got older.

Edit: I've just looked at my old thread and I'd point out that Mezzala was not an option at the time. I'd prefer it to Advanced Playmaker for a 2 reasons. Firstly the movement, moving out and wide to find pockets of space. Secondly I find that an Advanced Playmaker - purely anecdotally - seems to detract from the deeper playmaker (try playing both and see passing stats, as of FM2017 anyway).

For me, this would be in the context of a Control team mentality with lots of Support duties, and TIs facilitating a passing game - sorry, I'm well out of touch with FM2020 to be specific.
 

            ???
IF(S)                  IF(S)
      MEZ(A)   RPM(S)
           HB(D)
WB(S) BPD(D)   BPD(C)  WB(S)
           GK(D)

Obviously the Messi and Alves roles are interesting and - again - extremely dependent on having the right player.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[ryandormer]

1 hour ago, Ö-zil to the Arsenal! said:

Obviously the Messi and Alves roles are interesting and - again - extremely dependent on having the right player.

Thanks for the response, really appreciate it.

If it were possible to find the right player, what would you select for those roles? False nine for Messi? Would you stick with WB for Alves, or change it to CWB?

[Zendahl]

I have actually gotten something looking quite similar to @Ö-zil to the Arsenal! original shape working using a 4-1-2-3 Strikerless

 

IF/IW(Su) - SS - IF/IW(Su)

AP(At) - HB/A - DLP(Su)

WB(su) - BPD(D) - BPD(D) - WB(su)

SK(At)

It was in the swedish 3rd tier and i basically targeted players that had the right attributes for the most important things as Ö-zil lists in his original barca post. Though i like using the Inverted wingers depending on the player as it is more creative than the IF. And also switching the HB for an Anchor Man if the opposition prevents short GK distribution. Then the anchor man became a good player creating triangles in the shape of

       A

BPD - BPD

and also

AP - DLP

     A

Edited November 22, 2019 by ♿

[Ö-zil to the Arsenal!]

7 hours ago, ryandormer said:

Thanks for the response, really appreciate it.

If it were possible to find the right player, what would you select for those roles? False nine for Messi? Would you stick with WB for Alves, or change it to CWB?

If playing Control - which, if replicating Pep's Barcelona, I certainly would be - I'd consider Messi as a Shadow Striker more so than a False 9.

The reason being his individual mentality.

False 9 is only available on Support, so individual mentality would be positive, but generally pretty balanced. In fact, a striker with a support role actually has a marginally lower mentality than midfielders or wingers, I assume to link up play.

For Messi, I'd want him on attack. In a Control system, this would be fairly aggressive. To me, this is exactly how he played at the time.

The Striker roles available in Attack aren't really going to fit the bill, so I'd still go strikerless and have him as a Shadow Striker in the AM strata.

Edited November 22, 2019 by Ö-zil to the Arsenal!

[Corperate]

Iniesta as mezzala attack. Xavi deep lying playmaker support. Busquets as Half back. 2 Stoppers for CBS. Messi as false 9. 2 inside forwards on attack. Abidal wingback defend, Alves complete wingback support. Valdes as sweeper keeper.

[Luizinho]

I agree with Iniesta as a Mezzela.

However wouldn’t an attack duty be too aggressive/wasteful? (in a positive team mentality)

Edited June 12, 2021 by Luizinho

[CharlieTZR]

On 22/11/2019 at 21:37, Corperate said:

Iniesta as mezzala attack. Xavi deep lying playmaker support. Busquets as Half back. 2 Stoppers for CBS. Messi as false 9. 2 inside forwards on attack. Abidal wingback defend, Alves complete wingback support. Valdes as sweeper keeper.

2 stoppers? even with sweeper keeper, would this work?