chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 My players (on two different teams on two separate saves) have missed something like 7 or 8 out of their last 10 penalties. Anyone else? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 vor 1 Minute schrieb chvrches: My players (on two different teams on two separate saves) have missed something like 7 or 8 out of their last 10 penalties. Anyone else? Compare it with the stats of the other teams in your save, maybe just bad luck or the wrong penalty takers selected. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Also - something like is a bit vague... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, KUBI said: Compare it with the stats of the other teams in your save, maybe just bad luck or the wrong penalty takers selected. I'm making sure the best penalty taker is taking each penalty, but I'll compare it with the stats of other teams. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Gerade eben schrieb chvrches: I'm making sure the best penalty taker is taking each penalty, but I'll compare it with the stats of other teams. Thanks. In which league do you manage? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, KUBI said: Also - something like is a bit vague... It's either 7 or 8, I've been keeping track in my head. I'm just not sure whether it's 7 or 8. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, KUBI said: In which league do you manage? LaLiga (Atletico) and Bundesliga 2 (Hamburg). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
KUBI Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 You could also add the stats to this bug reports about missed penalties: 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, KUBI said: You could also add the stats to this bug reports about missed penalties: Okay cool. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Yep brought it up and did hella research through my save just to be ignored Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chvrches Posted December 6, 2019 Author Share Posted December 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, jere_d said: Yep brought it up and did hella research through my save just to be ignored So it seems like this has been an issue for you going back to last year's game? Not sure I noticed anything too wrong with pens in fm19, but I just seem to be missing way too many penalties on this year's game. And the players who have been taking them aren't bad penalty takers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) @chvrches No this is this years game maybe I wasn't clear I'll reread the post now. Re-read it and no this is a problem for this seasons fm. All I can think of is maybe there are now other factors to take into account when choosing a penalty taker. Such as hidden stats like pressure and so on. Because even the 20 pen takers with 20 composure are likely to miss a few. Edited December 6, 2019 by jere_d Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, jere_d said: @chvrches Because even the 20 pen takers with 20 composure are likely to miss a few. That said, there is no Player in world Football who doesn't miss a few. Pretty much all of the guys who have near perfect records haven't yet taken as many penalties. CR7's record over 100+ stands at ~83%, Messi ~78%, Ibra ~85%. Penalties aren't certain Goals, no matter who takes them, so they shouldn't be in-game. Unless the game were to script that the best takers shouldn't be able to miss in sequences, (or have subpar spells, a la Messi 2015+2017), then that's gonna and should happen, and more severe stuff. So if that weren't the case, I'd Question the Integrity of the Simulation. The actual Football world exists but once after all. FM' world for as many times anyone starts a new save. I hate scripts or artificial limiters tho in Simulation games in particular. Whilst they allow more control over what is ever going to happen when and where, they're imo very cheap and gamey. Also that's not how Football works. Stuff is being perceived as "impossible to happen"; until it happens. The Chance of missing a few pens isn't quite as lowly as the Chance of Winning the lottery. Even on subsequent Seasons/saves. And there's People Winning a lottery every day. When Looking for possible issues as regarding to say the simulatioin of "pressure", which may be flawed, I'd try to make the following distinctions: - Match Situation (shoot-out / extra time / normal time) - Game State (Penalty doesn't make a difference as game is already won / Scoreline is Level -- Penalty in General Counts for something) Edited December 6, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 @Svenc when I said likely I mean as in The best penalty takers should be unlikely to miss. But when I play this game I feel like i'm rolling a 3 sided die 2x goals and 1 miss. I personally dont believe messi is a good penalty taker. and he still hits that 78% mark My players on here are hitting 40% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Just had an u23 cup final went to pens and only 3 out of the 10 were scored How is this not an ISSUE!!!!!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinso Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, jere_d said: Just had an u23 cup final went to pens and only 3 out of the 10 were scored How is this not an ISSUE!!!!!!! as suggested, upload match and evidence to appropriate place and let them look at it. more files they have, more evidence they have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, rinso said: as suggested, upload match and evidence to appropriate place and let them look at it. more files they have, more evidence they have. All you got to do is play the game, either they don't test it or choose to ignore the issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rinso Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Just now, jere_d said: All you got to do is play the game, either they don't test it or choose to ignore the issues. I play it, I'm in my 3rd season. like i said, if you are having a problem, then use the bugs forum, that's what it is there for. Of course they test it, but they have their limitations. They cannot replicate every possible combination of events or setups. add your input n help em out Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svenc Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, jere_d said: My players on here are hitting 40% Over how big a sample size though, which may be the crucial bit. I don't think you will have any Penalty taker who keeps scoring that low in the longer term, even with the worst Attribute combination possible btw. It's possible you're just on a prolonged Rashford. Even for the best Penalty takers there should be a significant Chance of missing each Penalty. On average, it's a one in six Chance. Thus, unless SI were to hardcode that CR7 would be hugely unlikely to ever miss (which to me would be the end of Simulation), streaks are gonna occur on any release for somebody. This is the RNG at work, which affects other games too. See Tim Cain of Obsidian Entertainment Talking About the RNG of Fallout. He starts demonstrating the streaks that occur even with hit chances of 95%, when for the best Penalty takers for the pen it should hover around ~85%, a good ten percent less on average. With a hit Chance of 95%, that's a 1 in 20 Chance of missing. At 85% for the pen, it'd be a 1 in ~6 Chance to see a save/miss on each pen on average. That said, there may still be issues. To find them out, we'd probably needed to narrow it down to specific incidents, as suggested. Shootouts may be worth investigating, for instance. They see lower conversion in actual Football according to any Research out there, which makes it a sure fire bet that SI likely aims to mimic that (added pressure). However, the pressure / penalties applied may be too severe. Edited December 7, 2019 by Svenc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 I've simulated a few seasons on full detail and the conversion rate seems to be about 75%. This is looking at all the teams in the leagues, over the course of a season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 hours ago, jere_d said: All you got to do is play the game, either they don't test it or choose to ignore the issues. The conversion rate from the soak tests in the game is equivalent to the stats that SI gather from football countries round the world. Of course you will get times when they are missed, but I dont remember many threads being posted about too many being scored. Please also just cut out the digs at the developers when you post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 @Svenc Good points and video has opened my eyes, when the random is going against you it "feels" broken. @FrazT I apologise frustration got the better of me @HUNT3R I just completed my first season in the prem and the penalty conversion was 63%. In the league I've scored 5 out of 13 penalties 1 team has a worse ratio and that's because they missed their only pen. I know longer expect to score a penalty which isn't a feeling you should get in football, during playing time. my best pen taker (16 pen 16 comp 15 fin) scored 2 out of 5 in the league, 2 out of 6 all competitions and has even missed 2 out of 2 in u18/23 non competitive games. Just looked at spanish league, a lot less pens but still only 65% conversion rate Prem 76/121 63% la liga 21/32 65% Series A 33/38 87% Bundesliga 29/37 79% Ligue 1 38/44 87% That's roughly 73% average which, over the last 5 seasons, is the lower end of the conversion rate you get in the prem. the amount of pens in other leagues is extremely low as well, another game issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 27 minutes ago, jere_d said: Prem 76/121 63% la liga 21/32 65% Series A 33/38 87% Bundesliga 29/37 79% Ligue 1 38/44 87% That's roughly 73% average which, over the last 5 seasons, is the lower end of the conversion rate you get in the prem. the amount of pens in other leagues is extremely low as well, another game issue. You didn't mention whether these leagues were on full detail though. Your own league will be, but you will have needed to set the others to full manually. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, HUNT3R said: You didn't mention whether these leagues were on full detail though. Your own league will be, but you will have needed to set the others to full manually. Is that playable? Where can i find this option? These leagues are on playable. Edited December 7, 2019 by jere_d Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, jere_d said: Is that playable? Where can i find this option? No - it's full detail. You can set it in FM -> Detail Level Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jere_d Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, HUNT3R said: No - it's full detail. You can set it in FM -> Detail Level Ok, I didn't even know about this I'll see what happens next season Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars_Blackmon Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Keep in mine, penalty kicks are about a 75% success rate in real life. Anything under a full season of samples is a small sample size imo... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars_Blackmon Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 1 hour ago, jere_d said: @Svenc Good points and video has opened my eyes, when the random is going against you it "feels" broken. @FrazT I apologise frustration got the better of me @HUNT3R I just completed my first season in the prem and the penalty conversion was 63%. In the league I've scored 5 out of 13 penalties 1 team has a worse ratio and that's because they missed their only pen. I know longer expect to score a penalty which isn't a feeling you should get in football, during playing time. my best pen taker (16 pen 16 comp 15 fin) scored 2 out of 5 in the league, 2 out of 6 all competitions and has even missed 2 out of 2 in u18/23 non competitive games. Just looked at spanish league, a lot less pens but still only 65% conversion rate Prem 76/121 63% la liga 21/32 65% Series A 33/38 87% Bundesliga 29/37 79% Ligue 1 38/44 87% That's roughly 73% average which, over the last 5 seasons, is the lower end of the conversion rate you get in the prem. the amount of pens in other leagues is extremely low as well, another game issue. This issue may be this right here. The lack of penalties from around the world. Overall, the % is close to the 75% rate in real life but the 73% in FM might be tipped because the Prem Is having nearly 3x more attempts. each league should be around 75%, the numbers shouldn’t be so lopsided like that but it’s also because of the small sample size of attempts. Or it could also just be a product of variance which would also explain the numbers... The variance may be a +10/-10 of 75%. +5/-5 of 75% would be much better IMO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeonflux Posted December 7, 2019 Share Posted December 7, 2019 Aren’t penalties also effected by some of the Hidden Attributes and personalities stuff as well like pressure and “big game player” type things? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silentfeet Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 i have Harry Kane in my Man utd save, with 20 penaly taking, he missed 6 in row. I go and switch then for pogba he misses 2, i go rashford he missed 2 also, go back to Kane...and just now he missed another one.......really needs a fix 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime301 Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 FM 21, bug keeps going, player with 19 penalty taking, 20 finishing, composure 18, 10(2) stats. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
phd_angel Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 (edited) Yes. Italian first league, my top penalty taker could miss 50%. Something fishy here... PS: But after I set his individual training to penalty taking, he did improve. Edited August 24, 2021 by phd_angel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrazT Posted August 24, 2021 Share Posted August 24, 2021 3 hours ago, prime301 said: FM 21, bug keeps going, player with 19 penalty taking, 20 finishing, composure 18, 10(2) stats. If it was a game bug, it would be happening to all users and it doesnt appear that it is. SI have said that the success rate in the game is slightly above the actual rates gathered from the respective leagues- from memory this figure was about 78% Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime301 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 On 25/08/2021 at 01:26, FrazT said: If it was a game bug, it would be happening to all users and it doesnt appear that it is. SI have said that the success rate in the game is slightly above the actual rates gathered from the respective leagues- from memory this figure was about 78% The player I was talking, had to the previous team the stats on penalty 97% are goals, at my team he has now like 35%. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
prime301 Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 On 25/08/2021 at 01:26, FrazT said: If it was a game bug, it would be happening to all users and it doesnt appear that it is. SI have said that the success rate in the game is slightly above the actual rates gathered from the respective leagues- from memory this figure was about 78% If is not a game bug, then the engine is broken. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HUNT3R Posted September 16, 2021 Share Posted September 16, 2021 26 minutes ago, prime301 said: If is not a game bug, then the engine is broken. You are showing one player though. How are the other players doing? FWIW, I noticed you highlighted Finishing. It is irrelevent during an actual penalty. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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