Making a tactic arround a False Nine

[Bakiano]

Hi guys,

 

I am managing Ajax and want to make a tactic arround a False Nine, Tadic is the best guy for it.

 

 

This is my tactic, don't know is there any good to put an AMC there as a Trequarista or to put an AMC at all. Was also thinking to put a DMC position instead of AMC. First games I was playing striker as CF support but want to have a False Nine there,

[herne79]

If you use a F9 you ideally want someone who'll run into that space he's vacating.  A TQ may do that, but that isn't really what the role is designed for.  And both your flank players have a support duty.

If you want to stick with a 4231 formation, perhaps the F9 / F10 (Shadow Striker) combination.  And/or perhaps a Raumdeuter / IF(A).  Of course it depends on the players you have available as well.

Previously when I've used an F9 in the 4123DM formation I had an aggressive runner from midfield and an attacking flank player.

Whatever formation you use, you need someone attacking the space which the F9 is creating.

[Bakiano]

33 minutes ago, herne79 said:

If you use a F9 you ideally want someone who'll run into that space he's vacating.  A TQ may do that, but that isn't really what the role is designed for.  And both your flank players have a support duty.

If you want to stick with a 4231 formation, perhaps the F9 / F10 (Shadow Striker) combination.  And/or perhaps a Raumdeuter / IF(A).  Of course it depends on the players you have available as well.

Previously when I've used an F9 in the 4123DM formation I had an aggressive runner from midfield and an attacking flank player.

Whatever formation you use, you need someone attacking the space which the F9 is creating.

Is this better?

 

or maybe this?

 

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

If you use a F9 you ideally want someone who'll run into that space he's vacating.  A TQ may do that, but that isn't really what the role is designed for.  And both your flank players have a support duty.

If you want to stick with a 4231 formation, perhaps the F9 / F10 (Shadow Striker) combination.  And/or perhaps a Raumdeuter / IF(A).  Of course it depends on the players you have available as well.

Previously when I've used an F9 in the 4123DM formation I had an aggressive runner from midfield and an attacking flank player.

Whatever formation you use, you need someone attacking the space which the F9 is creating.

Couldn't agree more, so simple and logical 

[EnigMattic1]

When I've read other people's interpretation of Total Football or when they manage Ajax in general, quite a few seem to go for a F9/Shadow Striker combo. 

Personally, in my tactic, I have a F9, flanked by 2 IF(a). It works so I'm not complaining, just don't ask me how/why 😂

[yonko]

4 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Is this better?

 

I would flip the BBM and DLP and I would change the DL to simple FB-S. Keep the Overlap only on the right. This way the WB, IW and DLP will form a nice interaction and feed the SS and IF on the opposite side. Make sure someone in midfield has a trait to switch the ball to the other flank. The LB needs to be more conservative to cover for the IF and BBM.

[macca7292]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

I would flip the BBM and DLP and I would change the DL to simple FB-S. Keep the Overlap only on the right. This way the WB, IW and DLP will form a nice interaction and feed the SS and IF on the opposite side. Make sure someone in midfield has a trait to switch the ball to the other flank. The LB needs to be more conservative to cover for the IF and BBM.

Was about to post the same thing!

I'd maybe even give the right back an attack duty.

[Bakiano]

2 hours ago, yonko said:

I would flip the BBM and DLP and I would change the DL to simple FB-S. Keep the Overlap only on the right. This way the WB, IW and DLP will form a nice interaction and feed the SS and IF on the opposite side. Make sure someone in midfield has a trait to switch the ball to the other flank. The LB needs to be more conservative to cover for the IF and BBM.

Thank you guys, it is working nice. I just scored this goal:

 

[FMunderachiever]

I like false 9s on this version more than deep lying forwards i think.

[Enos]

Glad to see an F9 working as a lone striker.  I've always struggled with it as I couldn't get my SS or IF to attack the space consistently.  Gonna try it out when I get the right player attributes.  I typically pay LLM so it's a little harder to find those skills.

[Bakiano]

5 hours ago, Enos said:

Glad to see an F9 working as a lone striker.  I've always struggled with it as I couldn't get my SS or IF to attack the space consistently.  Gonna try it out when I get the right player attributes.  I typically pay LLM so it's a little harder to find those skills.

I have all the players for this tactic and I am enjoying it. My left IFa is scoring a lot of goals and SS runing behind opponents defence is very nice and all this because of my False Nine.

[herne79]

12 hours ago, Bakiano said:

I have all the players for this tactic and I am enjoying it. My left IFa is scoring a lot of goals and SS runing behind opponents defence is very nice and all this because of my False Nine.

Great stuff .  Post your updated tactic, how's it changed from the original?  Nice goal in the video you posted btw, good movement and passing.

[Dagenham_Dave]

It's examples like this that show, with a little bit of thought, how you can get your team to work, and how the match engine beautifully re-creates it. This match engine is very close to being absolutely spot on. Good work @Bakiano

[Bakiano]

4 hours ago, herne79 said:

Great stuff .  Post your updated tactic, how's it changed from the original?  Nice goal in the video you posted btw, good movement and passing.

Well, this is what I am using. @yonko tweak is my final version which I am very satisfied.

 

 

You can see I have highest average % possession, highest number of completed passes and highest % of completed passes. 

Tadić is usually my main False Nine which he makes a great job, but the left IF is the main scorer(Tadic has more goals but he scored about 5 penalties).

So, to make the most of my left IF, I bought Cavani and he is banging well  

 

Will tweak my IFa to Ramdeuter to see if it will give more goals from there.

 

Was thinking also for this formation against stronger opponents but didnt try yet. Not sure for my central midfielders, what role to put them.

 

I know this is Ajax and they have great technical players, but I wanted to play just like I am playing right now and wanted to play with a False Nine and thanks to you guys, I did it. 

 

 

[Bakiano]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

It's examples like this that show, with a little bit of thought, how you can get your team to work, and how the match engine beautifully re-creates it. This match engine is very close to being absolutely spot on. Good work @Bakiano

Thank you, I am enjoying this save and yes, I know it is Ajax, but I finally converted my idea of football into practical work and it is working very good. 

[Razor940]

Em 08/12/2019 em 10:31, herne79 disse:

If you use a F9 you ideally want someone who'll run into that space he's vacating.  A TQ may do that, but that isn't really what the role is designed for.  And both your flank players have a support duty.

If you want to stick with a 4231 formation, perhaps the F9 / F10 (Shadow Striker) combination.  And/or perhaps a Raumdeuter / IF(A).  Of course it depends on the players you have available as well.

Previously when I've used an F9 in the 4123DM formation I had an aggressive runner from midfield and an attacking flank player.

Whatever formation you use, you need someone attacking the space which the F9 is creating.

Can we make a tactic full of support duties bang? Is it better to achieve the another way of winning? I know you, last year, and Cleon, usually, do that.

[yonko]

5 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Well, this is what I am using. @yonko tweak is my final version which I am very satisfied.

Was thinking also for this formation against stronger opponents but didnt try yet. Not sure for my central midfielders, what role to put them.

 

I know this is Ajax and they have great technical players, but I wanted to play just like I am playing right now and wanted to play with a False Nine and thanks to you guys, I did it. 

 

 

I'm glad to help. You already had most of the stuff down. Just needed some balancing out to make the roles link better for the whole thing to work. 

For your 433 formation you got it right already pretty much. There you can get back to overlapping from both sides. Make sure that the Mez-A has trait to "Get Further Forward" and/or "Gets Into Penalty Area". Plus he needs good finishing - 12+.

It's not just the roles and instructions. The players with their attributes and traits are equally important. Two players with different traits can play the same role differently.

1 hour ago, Razor940 said:

Can we make a tactic full of support duties bang? Is it better to achieve the another way of winning? I know you, last year, and Cleon, usually, do that.

You can have a successful tactic with all support duties but it needs to be balanced out by the overall team mentality, player roles, positions, traits, etc. You also may need additional PIs.

For example, with a False 9 you can use IW-S on one side and IF-S with Get Forward (instruction or player trait or both) on the other side. Then you can use Attacking or Very Attacking Team Mentality. Use DMs instead of CMs and set the AMC as AM-S with Get Forward PI. The use of DMs instead of CMs is to offset the fact that you want to use all support duties and more risky team mentality.

Does that make sense?

[Razor940]

4 minutos atrás, yonko disse:

I'm glad to help. You already had most of the stuff down. Just needed some balancing out to make the roles link better for the whole thing to work. 

For your 433 formation you got it right already pretty much. There you can get back to overlapping from both sides. Make sure that the Mez-A has trait to "Get Further Forward" and/or "Gets Into Penalty Area". Plus he needs good finishing - 12+.

It's not just the roles and instructions. The players with their attributes and traits are equally important. Two players with different traits can play the same role differently.

You can have a successful tactic with all support duties but it needs to be balanced out by the overall team mentality, player roles, positions, traits, etc. You also may need additional PIs.

For example, with a False 9 you can use IW-S on one side and IF-S with Get Forward (instruction or player trait or both) on the other side. Then you can use Attacking or Very Attacking Team Mentality. Use DMs instead of CMs and set the AMC as AM-S with Get Forward PI. The use of DMs instead of CMs is to offset the fact that you want to use all support duties and more risky team mentality.

Does that make sense?

Yes it does, and I do that, but i asked because I feel like people talk a lot about having someone to run from deep like it has exist someone with attacking duty. I use a 4-3-3 with a mezz and a RPM on support and they do a lot of runs even in counter mentality, and I don't use attacking duties because I feel like they don't give that much support. My main issue now is wings and upfront, I like the CF but don't know how to support him really good, but I think this is off topic to this topic. I created a topic weeks ago but not much help.

[Bakiano]

16 hours ago, yonko said:

I'm glad to help. You already had most of the stuff down. Just needed some balancing out to make the roles link better for the whole thing to work. 

For your 433 formation you got it right already pretty much. There you can get back to overlapping from both sides. Make sure that the Mez-A has trait to "Get Further Forward" and/or "Gets Into Penalty Area". Plus he needs good finishing - 12+.

It's not just the roles and instructions. The players with their attributes and traits are equally important. Two players with different traits can play the same role differently.

Will try that, I trained my mezzala to have that trait. 

[Robson 07]

False Nine is a great role.  You see so many posts where tactics are cramped for room but the F9 can solve so many problems, a brilliant space creator for others.

[garyshaw]

I use a false 9 with a treq wide right and a cmA from the mcl position. The false 9 creates some crazy space for the pair of them it’s a really underrated role imo 

[Kingofcm03]

I use the F9 with a Poacher, works well as there is nice space for him and he sits just infront and central. The F9 drags the CBs down a bit. I also use an IF on the left to run straight into the space.

[sovy666]

5 ore fa, Kingofcm03 ha scritto:

I use the F9 with a Poacher, works well as there is nice space for him and he sits just infront and central. The F9 drags the CBs down a bit. I also use an IF on the left to run straight into the space.

Do you play 4-2-4?

[AlexcH]

This post inspired me! What stats should a good f9 have? 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, AlexcH said:

What stats should a good f9 have?

Don't know what other people will tell you, but I would primarily look for: off the ball, first touch, passing, dribbling, decisions, flair, composure, balance, agility, acceleration, pace... not all of these would need to be extraordinary, but all are important in one way or the other. Btw, attributes such as work rate, teamwork, stamina, determination, bravery, anticipation and concentration are welcome for any player/role, not just an F9.

[Weezer]

Is it possible (successfully do you think) to combine a lone F9 up top with a high pressing, high line of engagement tactic? I want a F9 to create space for two pacey wide forwards cutting in and a runner from midfield but worry that the F9 tendency for drifting around would mean I'd have nobody pressing the opposition's defence and therefore negating the high press.

[yonko]

8 hours ago, AlexcH said:

This post inspired me! What stats should a good f9 have? 

The game highlights well the important attributes for the role when you view player's attributes page.

I would say the main ones to focus on are: off the ball, passing, vision, decisions and anticipation. 

2 hours ago, Weezer said:

Is it possible (successfully do you think) to combine a lone F9 up top with a high pressing, high line of engagement tactic? I want a F9 to create space for two pacey wide forwards cutting in and a runner from midfield but worry that the F9 tendency for drifting around would mean I'd have nobody pressing the opposition's defence and therefore negating the high press.

I think most people who use F9 role are playing high pressing tactics. The F9 role doesn't drift around. He drops deep. That doesn't affect his participation in high pressing strategy.

Of course, if you modify the role to have "move into channels" and "roam from position" this would mean that the player would have a lot more to do, thus he would need high work rate and stamina to perform the tasks in both phases of play. But if you stick with the default instructions, then you should be fine.

[Weezer]

1 hour ago, yonko said:

I think most people who use F9 role are playing high pressing tactics. The F9 role doesn't drift around. He drops deep. That doesn't affect his participation in high pressing strategy.

Of course, if you modify the role to have "move into channels" and "roam from position" this would mean that the player would have a lot more to do, thus he would need high work rate and stamina to perform the tasks in both phases of play. But if you stick with the default instructions, then you should be fine.

Yeah when I said drifts around I meant that he drops back into space, essentially he doesn't necessarily 'lead the line' like a more attacking role would so I was wondering if him dropping back would contradict a high press. Thanks for the answer.

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, Weezer said:

Yeah when I said drifts around I meant that he drops back into space, essentially he doesn't necessarily 'lead the line' like a more attacking role would so I was wondering if him dropping back would contradict a high press. Thanks for the answer.

No, because he drops deep(er) when the team is in possession, not out of possession. 

[clokey1988]

On 10/12/2019 at 16:34, Bakiano said:

Well, this is what I am using. @yonko tweak is my final version which I am very satisfied.

 

 

I was inspired by your post so have started using a very similar set-up to the 4-2-3-1 you have here, although I dropped the tempo lower and changed the central defenders to just normal defenders to try and encourage more possession (long balls from my centre backs were driving me mad, I think that is just a feature of this version of the game unfortunately). Seems to have worked, I semi-regularly get 100+ passes from the two central midfielders and average possession is the highest in the league.

Having great results and great fun with it, when it works the football can be sublime. My team have scored some fantastic goals and I'm enjoying the game a lot more than I was previously - so thanks to you and the others contributing in this thread!

One thing I'd like is to see the false 9 a bit more involved. The movement is great for the team but I'd like to see him actually get on the ball a bit more often. My strikers seem to average between 8 and 15 passes a match, usually on the lower end of that. It's a shame because when he does get on the ball he is often very dangerous with it as the centre back is drawn out leaving a good chance for a through ball to the onrushing AMC or AML.

Anyone have any ideas on how to get the striker more involved in the build-up play? Mine has "Comes deep to get ball" PPM and I have tried both with and without the player instruction "Move into channels", can't say I noticed any real difference.

Edited December 14, 2019 by clokey1988

[clokey1988]

Interestingly I just used a set-up like this one...

On 10/12/2019 at 16:34, Bakiano said:

 

 

...and the false 9 received over 30 passes, by far the most I've seen. So maybe the "problem" (not a problem in terms of results, just something that bugs me really) in the 4-2-3-1 is the shadow striker acting as a ball magnet as he runs past the false 9 and the other players looking for the ball over the defence to find his run rather than playing it into the feet of the false 9 when he drops deep. 

[Bakiano]

26 minutes ago, clokey1988 said:

Interestingly I just used a set-up like this one...

...and the false 9 received over 30 passes, by far the most I've seen. So maybe the "problem" (not a problem in terms of results, just something that bugs me really) in the 4-2-3-1 is the shadow striker acting as a ball magnet as he runs past the false 9 and the other players looking for the ball over the defence to find his run rather than playing it into the feet of the false 9 when he drops deep. 

I am also getting arround 30 passes from the false nine in this tactic, but from the tactic with the SS I got 15-20 passes.

 

Also I am using the second tactic against stronger opponents and it is working good so far.

 

Was also thinking to change my CBs to CD defend but I got nice BPDs so why not use them 😀

 

And I am glad that this thread inspired you. Which team do you manage?

[Bakiano]

On 13/12/2019 at 01:49, garyshaw said:

I use a false 9 with a treq wide right and a cmA from the mcl position. The false 9 creates some crazy space for the pair of them it’s a really underrated role imo 

CM attack is an interesting option. Was thinking to change from mezzala to cm attack in my second tactic.

[Bakiano]

Was having a hard time to score against smaller teams, they just park the bus. So I made this tactic and in two games I scored 10 goals. In my whole season, 24 games I scored just 44 goals.

 

Dont know is it better to swap my false nine and advanced forward and what role to give to my left CM.

[Tiger666]

 

On 10/12/2019 at 16:34, Bakiano said:

Well, this is what I am using. @yonko tweak is my final version which I am very satisfied.

 

Been trying this with Spurs and losing every game

Edited December 16, 2019 by Tiger666

[Robson 07]

14 hours ago, Bakiano said:

Dont know is it better to swap my false nine and advanced forward and what role to give to my left CM

On the face of it with the other roles it would make sense if they swapped.  On the roles more generally it looks a bit jazzy - F9, Raumdeuter, Playmakers, Mezzala, Ball Playing defenders.  Like an over decorated Xmas tree.  My inclination is that you don't have enough plain roles to gel it together.

[Siven]

 

On 10/12/2019 at 16:34, Bakiano said:

 

 

 

 

Been playing as Liverpool with Firmino upfront as a DLF but he just hasnt been doing enough for me, so going to try him as a F9 instead. Won the league and he got 14 goals and 5 assists, but im wanting more from him

Funnily enough my formation is very similar to this, just with IF(a) on right, IF(s) on left, BBM on right and Mez(a) on left.

[Kingofcm03]

Im really enjoying he F9 this season, hes just the perfect player for my system. The F9 with a Poacher is great as they are both scoring for fun and if you combine that with an IF on the side withe F9 and a winger on the other to bang the ball into the box or cut inside it can cause mayhem for the AI.  I am playing a 4-2-4 essentially so you have to be ready to accept you will concede goals

This is what I am using for most games

its not perfect at all,

I am yet to decide on MEZ, CM-A or BBM for the middle right player as they all have pro and cons. I am maybe thinking to try a double DLP combo and watch how they move. I would ideally then play with 1 on Defend and 1 on Support.

im also still working out if I like the IWB-S on the right

The idea was that the IWB would move in and help cover the space in the middle, he kind does that but when hes up there we get hit on the counter down his side too much for my liking. Then with the NCB-ST he would also push a little further ahead. Its not working exactly but im getting there. I would like to try playing the defence on narrow and making him into a FB-D. I do not count or need many goals or assists from this side.

 

[yonko]

3 hours ago, Siven said:

 

Been playing as Liverpool with Firmino upfront as a DLF but he just hasnt been doing enough for me, so going to try him as a F9 instead. Won the league and he got 14 goals and 5 assists, but im wanting more from him

Funnily enough my formation is very similar to this, just with IF(a) on right, IF(s) on left, BBM on right and Mez(a) on left.

What do you want Firmino to do? If you want him to score more, then F9 is not the role. He will score more as DLF. Keep in mind his trait to come deep.

[Bakiano]

10 hours ago, Tiger666 said:

 

Been trying this with Spurs and losing every game

Oh, sorry to hear that but I didn't try it with another club. 

 

8 hours ago, Robson 07 said:

On the face of it with the other roles it would make sense if they swapped.  On the roles more generally it looks a bit jazzy - F9, Raumdeuter, Playmakers, Mezzala, Ball Playing defenders.  Like an over decorated Xmas tree.  My inclination is that you don't have enough plain roles to gel it together.

Yeah, I know. It was just a little experiment but I will change some roles and see are there any difference.

 

7 hours ago, Siven said:

Been playing as Liverpool with Firmino upfront as a DLF but he just hasnt been doing enough for me, so going to try him as a F9 instead. Won the league and he got 14 goals and 5 assists, but im wanting more from him

Funnily enough my formation is very similar to this, just with IF(a) on right, IF(s) on left, BBM on right and Mez(a) on left.

I play this tactic only against stronger opponents but like it because my F9 has more passes then in 4231 but he scores the same. 

 

As a F9 I play Tadic and Lincoln, but they are not my main scorers. My IFa is my main scorer.

 

7 hours ago, Kingofcm03 said:

Im really enjoying he F9 this season, hes just the perfect player for my system. The F9 with a Poacher is great as they are both scoring for fun and if you combine that with an IF on the side withe F9 and a winger on the other to bang the ball into the box or cut inside it can cause mayhem for the AI.  I am playing a 4-2-4 essentially so you have to be ready to accept you will concede goals

This is what I am using for most games

its not perfect at all,

I am yet to decide on MEZ, CM-A or BBM for the middle right player as they all have pro and cons. I am maybe thinking to try a double DLP combo and watch how they move. I would ideally then play with 1 on Defend and 1 on Support.

im also still working out if I like the IWB-S on the right

The idea was that the IWB would move in and help cover the space in the middle, he kind does that but when hes up there we get hit on the counter down his side too much for my liking. Then with the NCB-ST he would also push a little further ahead. Its not working exactly but im getting there. I would like to try playing the defence on narrow and making him into a FB-D. I do not count or need many goals or assists from this side.

 

Are you playing with Hajduk and you have Coman in your team? How?  

[Kingofcm03]

1 hour ago, Bakiano said:

Oh, sorry to hear that but I didn't try it with another club. 

 

Yeah, I know. It was just a little experiment but I will change some roles and see are there any difference.

 

I play this tactic only against stronger opponents but like it because my F9 has more passes then in 4231 but he scores the same. 

 

As a F9 I play Tadic and Lincoln, but they are not my main scorers. My IFa is my main scorer.

 

Are you playing with Hajduk and you have Coman in your team? How?  

I grabbed him end of first season, was a steal. I forgot how much but I'd guess around 2.2. I have a thread in the career update, you can check there.

[Bakiano]

1 hour ago, Kingofcm03 said:

I grabbed him end of first season, was a steal. I forgot how much but I'd guess around 2.2. I have a thread in the career update, you can check there.

Haha I thought it was the french Coman    

 

Nice career though. That invicible season is some great stuff.

[garyshaw]

On 14/12/2019 at 23:11, Bakiano said:

CM attack is an interesting option. Was thinking to change from mezzala to cm attack in my second tactic.

I’ve never really grown on the mezzala. The cmA vertical movement into the space vacated from the f9 is really something would recommend at least trying it