One Long Ball, Two Long Balls, Three Long Balls, Four ...

[cwc1]

... the match engine doesn't play through the middle anymore.

Seriously, every match seems to result in 5-10 perfectly crafted 50+ yard accurate passes to the feet of an attacking player for a scoring chance (generally, but not always, by the opposing team). Apparently an in-form Paul Scholes now plays center back for every team in the world under a various number of guises.

Right now I'm playing with a balanced mentality and a low defensive line, even though I have one of the top teams in the world, because to do otherwise would be suicidal. And I'm still seeing a constant barrage of touch-perfect long balls past my "low" defensive line.

Quite simply, it's now almost 2020 and, despite being released almost 2 months ago, this game still sucks.

Edited December 25, 2019 by cwc1

[weezy3313]

If you play while you are intoxicated it helps ease the pain.

[anagain]

1 hour ago, cwc1 said:

... the match engine doesn't play through the middle anymore.

Seriously, every match seems to result in 5-10 perfectly crafted 50+ yard accurate passes to the feet of an attacking player for a scoring chance (generally, but not always, by the opposing team). Apparently an in-form Paul Scholes now plays center back for every team in the world under a various number of guises.

Right now I'm playing with a balanced mentality and a low defensive line, even though I have one of the top teams in the world, because to do otherwise would be suicidal. And I'm still seeing a constant barrage of touch-perfect long balls past my "low" defensive line.

Quite simply, it's now almost 2020 and, despite being released almost 2 months ago, this game still sucks.

Yet, you are obviously still playing it.

But you are still a top team that is reputed to play an attacking style of football and tries to put your opponents on the back foot. They've therefore chosen to play a more defensive game and hit you on the break. The AI managers will play a way they believe will counter how they expect you to play. They will Leicester you if they believe it will win them the game.

I'd wager you also play faster games with less highlights. That means you'll see less of the game represented graphically and see the opposition's best moments. If their best moments are when they play direct then that is what you will see a lot of.

Also, look at the world of football. In the Premiership this style is seen often against the better teams. Leicester play direct, Bournemouth play direct. Burnley, Watfor, Newcastle. They will adapt to the situation and try to get the ball up the pitch to a pacey forward.

I've seen long balls in my save, but not to an extent where I believe it is ruining the game. I do believe people like to overeact though, and I also believe that they won't look at the bigger picture very often.

[pats]

I don't have any problem with the same setup as yours so you must be doing something wrong tactically.

[cwc1]

1 hour ago, anagain said:

Yet, you are obviously still playing it.

But you are still a top team that is reputed to play an attacking style of football and tries to put your opponents on the back foot. They've therefore chosen to play a more defensive game and hit you on the break. The AI managers will play a way they believe will counter how they expect you to play. They will Leicester you if they believe it will win them the game.

I'd wager you also play faster games with less highlights. That means you'll see less of the game represented graphically and see the opposition's best moments. If their best moments are when they play direct then that is what you will see a lot of.

Also, look at the world of football. In the Premiership this style is seen often against the better teams. Leicester play direct, Bournemouth play direct. Burnley, Watfor, Newcastle. They will adapt to the situation and try to get the ball up the pitch to a pacey forward.

I've seen long balls in my save, but not to an extent where I believe it is ruining the game. I do believe people like to overeact though, and I also believe that they won't look at the bigger picture very often.

I have no issue with the fact that opposing teams set up that way nor that they attempt the long ball, but the frequency with which these long balls are accurate is a bit over-the-top (pun unintended).

When I've set up with a low defensive line without an attacking mentality or using the 'push forward' shout, there is also no reason why the ball should get over my defenders that easily.

[cwc1]

42 minutes ago, pats said:

I don't have any problem with the same setup as yours so you must be doing something wrong tactically.

Ah, the "it's your tactics" guy has arrived.

No, it's not my tactics. It's the fact that the ME is garbage. The fact that I am basically required to play with a low line to have a functional game isn't an error on my part.

But thanks for the attempt to disparage my point.

[HUNT3R]

2 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

Ah, the "it's your tactics" guy has arrived.

No, it's not my tactics. It's the fact that the ME is garbage. The fact that I am basically required to play with a low line to have a functional game isn't an error on my part.

But thanks for the attempt to disparage my point.

It's a discussion section, so inevitably, there will be discussion and people will have different views.

 There is an acknowledged issue with those long balls. There can be far too many in a match and they can result in far too many 1 v 1 chances. That said, in my last game, I limited the opposition to 2 of those chances in the entire March. I've mention in the feedback thread that getting your DL and LoE right is very important. So despite ME flaws, I'm able to limit those chances.

This was with a top 5 team and I'm playing a high press against a mid table team. I was able to limit the opposition when using a team rated at 1000-1 of winning the title, using a low block counter tactic. 

While there are ME issues, there are also things you can do tactically to limit it, so it may be worth listening to people's opinions.

[Svenc]

2 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

 There is an acknowledged issue with those long balls. There can be far too many in a match and they can result in far too many 1 v 1 chances. That said, in my last game, I limited the opposition to 2 of those chances in the entire March. I've mention in the feedback thread that getting your DL and LoE right is very important. So despite ME flaws, I'm able to limit those chances.

 

In parts this must be meant to be that way. I say, in parts. If there is no pressure on the ball carrier, any half-decent footballer can time and play defense splitting balls. 

https://youtu.be/M1WlFj9YPV0?t=160

 

On a much older release, I had edited a Bayern team to have universally low Ratings in work rate,  team work, aggression and bravery. On Occasion I was "greeted" with sequences of play like this: As this is a much older release, all that opportunity for easy balls over the top weren't taken, and in this case, the Urawa AI was on time wasting mode either way.  
 

However, my rule of the thumb is: If the AI can't manage something, it's an issue either way. Otherwise it's just another gigantic edge again, and Football Management doesn't see such between managers. Plus accurate balls over the top aren't that frequent, so the (AI) "Defaults" available should result in something resembling that. Plus, the defender reaction and positioning is part of the issue too, not merely the pressure applied on the ball carrier. (Not saying you were suggesting otherwise, mind -- just that stopping it all is, as you hinted at is currently partly a mitigation of ME inherent "issues" as well as tactical solution in about equal measures). 

 

Edited December 25, 2019 by Svenc

[JordanMilly]

I found that as soon as I dropped my defensive line and line of engagement down to higher from much higher, the long balls dried up because I was defending slightly deeper. I think it's an issue with many players playing perhaps too offensively.

[anagain]

43 minutes ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I found that as soon as I dropped my defensive line and line of engagement down to higher from much higher, the long balls dried up because I was defending slightly deeper. I think it's an issue with many players playing perhaps too offensively.

I agree. I had a similar thought in my last match, just in reverse. I started the game with a more balanced approach before switching to a more aggressive approach to chase the game. Once I went attacking the opposition started getting chances from balls over the top.

To me that is not totally an error with the match engine. That is football. It possibly needs altering by SI a little, but in no way do I think this is as bad a situation as so many negative vocies are making out. A lot of it is balance in tactics. If managers are pushing their backlines high up the pitch in an overly aggressive formation, then they need to expect the opposition to try to get in behind. Leave the space and teams should exploit it.

Edited December 25, 2019 by anagain

[cwc1]

13 hours ago, JordanMillward_1 said:

I found that as soon as I dropped my defensive line and line of engagement down to higher from much higher, the long balls dried up because I was defending slightly deeper. I think it's an issue with many players playing perhaps too offensively

Did you read the part where I stated I was playing with a balanced mentality and a low defensive line?

In what world is that known as being too offensive?

[thejay]

vor 14 Stunden schrieb anagain:

I agree. I had a similar thought in my last match, just in reverse. I started the game with a more balanced approach before switching to a more aggressive approach to chase the game. Once I went attacking the opposition started getting chances from balls over the top.

To me that is not totally an error with the match engine. That is football. It possibly needs altering by SI a little, but in no way do I think this is as bad a situation as so many negative vocies are making out. A lot of it is balance in tactics. If managers are pushing their backlines high up the pitch in an overly aggressive formation, then they need to expect the opposition to try to get in behind. Leave the space and teams should exploit it.

It's not about that long balls happen, but that they are way too accurate and frequent and that defenders just don't really defend striker runs which results in copious one in one's which are not converted to keep the goal numbers realistic.

 

 

[alian62]

Again this has been repeated heaps of times and in the feedback section so it is well documented so why start another thread ?  its becoming a bore . 

[cwc1]

5 hours ago, prot651 said:

Again this has been repeated heaps of times and in the feedback section so it is well documented so why start another thread ?  its becoming a bore . 

Because I didn't see a thread on it on the main page on this forum?

 

[KUBI]

A general bug means that all who are playing the game will see it in every match.

But this is not the case. It depends in which league you are managing, which players and tactics are involved and used and maybe some other factors too. 

So there might be an issue with some kind of playing styles and the team and players that are assigned with that kind of tactic and also how the AI plays against it.

To track that down and fix or adjust it is not easy.

[alian62]

35 minutes ago, cwc1 said:

Because I didn't see a thread on it on the main page on this forum?

Do you often click on thread titles you find boring to show off your intellectual superiority over others?

Its well documented in the feedback section .

[FrazT]

Its Xmas so I have just edited some of the above posts- no more please

[alian62]

6 hours ago, FrazT said:

Its Xmas so I have just edited some of the above posts- no more please

It's boxing day ? 

[HUNT3R]

1 hour ago, prot651 said:

It's boxing day ? 

You know what he means. It's the Christmas period.

[alian62]

7 hours ago, HUNT3R said:

You know what he means. It's the Christmas period.

Lighten up snowflake.. seriously you moderators have no sense of humour 

[sgevolker]

Am 26.12.2019 um 12:30 schrieb KUBI:

A general bug means that all who are playing the game will see it in every match.

But this is not the case. It depends in which league you are managing, which players and tactics are involved and used and maybe some other factors too. 

So there might be an issue with some kind of playing styles and the team and players that are assigned with that kind of tactic and also how the AI plays against it.

To track that down and fix or adjust it is not easy.

Can you tell us which leagues are affected by this? Which tactics or playing style is involved? 

For me it looks like to many "clear cut chances" are created. And of course I'm not playing a attacking style. It's balanced with a standard defensive line. I also see my striker getting a lot of these chances when the opposition plays a attacking style. Makes no fun until this is fixed. 

[pats]

On 26/12/2019 at 08:02, cwc1 said:

Did you read the part where I stated I was playing with a balanced mentality and a low defensive line?

In what world is that known as being too offensive?

Your players take time adjusting to your tactical changes. Once they are familiar, they will be more responsive to your changes even on 'Much higher defensive line'.

Not that it matters to you but look at Mourinho and Tottenham combination in real life at the moment.

[badgerwhacker]

On 25/12/2019 at 04:46, anagain said:

Yet, you are obviously still playing it.

But you are still a top team that is reputed to play an attacking style of football and tries to put your opponents on the back foot. They've therefore chosen to play a more defensive game and hit you on the break. The AI managers will play a way they believe will counter how they expect you to play. They will Leicester you if they believe it will win them the game.

I'd wager you also play faster games with less highlights. That means you'll see less of the game represented graphically and see the opposition's best moments. If their best moments are when they play direct then that is what you will see a lot of.

Also, look at the world of football. In the Premiership this style is seen often against the better teams. Leicester play direct, Bournemouth play direct. Burnley, Watfor, Newcastle. They will adapt to the situation and try to get the ball up the pitch to a pacey forward.

I've seen long balls in my save, but not to an extent where I believe it is ruining the game. I do believe people like to overeact though, and I also believe that they won't look at the bigger picture very often.

Continues to amaze me that there's posters on this forum so blindly willing the game to be good they try to reason why this sort of thing is happening. The match engine is an issue. A gamebreaking issue for me. SI even acknowledge as much.

[Mantis Toboggan]

On ‎24‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 19:46, weezy3313 said:

If you play while you are intoxicated it helps ease the pain.

This quote should be on the cover of the game. 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Mantis Toboggan

[thehig2]

On 25/12/2019 at 03:37, cwc1 said:

... the match engine doesn't play through the middle anymore.

Seriously, every match seems to result in 5-10 perfectly crafted 50+ yard accurate passes to the feet of an attacking player for a scoring chance (generally, but not always, by the opposing team). Apparently an in-form Paul Scholes now plays center back for every team in the world under a various number of guises.

Right now I'm playing with a balanced mentality and a low defensive line, even though I have one of the top teams in the world, because to do otherwise would be suicidal. And I'm still seeing a constant barrage of touch-perfect long balls past my "low" defensive line.

Quite simply, it's now almost 2020 and, despite being released almost 2 months ago, this game still sucks.

Happens to me too, I do it myself most my goals come from long balls like you describe.

Things like this in the match engine affect the AI too.

[anagain]

7 hours ago, badgerwhacker said:

Continues to amaze me that there's posters on this forum so blindly willing the game to be good they try to reason why this sort of thing is happening. The match engine is an issue. A gamebreaking issue for me. SI even acknowledge as much.

Please tell me where they have acknowledged it is gamebreaking. They have acknowledged there are issues. There is also a very good post from Neil Brock that I suggest you read. 

The reason I have said what I have said is that personally speaking the issue has not affected me to the extent by which it might effect others. I see long balls by the opposition but my defense handles it. So before you accuse me of blindly supporting a game I love, I think you want to appreciate that not everyone is in the same position as you. SI work bloody hard for a small team, and I think you need to understand that too. People get far too upset and melodramatic over a game. It's not game breaking. 

 

Edited December 28, 2019 by anagain

[Maldini's Heir]

I'm bored of long balls.

I'm bored of the match engine full stop.

Ball over the top. Miss simple 1 v 1. Score 40 yard strike into the top corner. Those "unlucky" games where my players hit the post 3 or 4 times. 40 chances. FORTY. And I draw. Re-start. 3:0. 

This doesn't tell me anything. Missing endless 1 v 1's doesn't tell me anything. Are my tactics working? Well they must be because my team created 40 chances. "Stop creating chances guys. Everyone knows 1 v 1s are the hardest things in football to score. Try more shots form 40 yards".

And why does every computer attack need to start with my attacks?

I get it. It's the deep defence/counter-attack storyline. My issue is not the storyline. It's the story telling. It's a rubbish way of telling that story. 

This is not like a FIFA where they have to program a playable football simulation with the user effecting the game and complex simulations. The developers have complete control. JUST TAKE REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. There's no shortage of source material. Forget about making the graphics look. Give the simulation some semblance of reality. How did the developers miss the endless long balls and endless missed 1v1s??? 

[anagain]

3 hours ago, Maldini's Heir said:

This is not like a FIFA where they have to program a playable football simulation with the user effecting the game and complex simulations. The developers have complete control. JUST TAKE REAL LIFE SITUATIONS. There's no shortage of source material. Forget about making the graphics look. Give the simulation some semblance of reality. How did the developers miss the endless long balls and endless missed 1v1s??? 

For me this last paragraph shows just how unlikely it is for SI to ever win. If people weren't complaining about the match engine then they would be complaining that the game doesn't look as nice as games like FIFA. 

It also shows just how little people will understand the game. Of course SI have to program for users to change the game. Every substitution or player you put in your team changes games. 

So you want the game to be a series of events do you? You want to take away everything great that football manager has going for it to turn it in to a cheap mobile style game? 

Then we have the beauty that is asking how SI missed this. It just proves that you have no understanding or care regarding how game development, and coding of a game as complex as FM, actually works. There are thousands of different ways in which this game is played. From teams in lower leagues with basic formations to the likes of Man City and Barcelona. SI are a small team and yet you expect them to catch every little problem that can happen with this game.

There's also the fact that any change to the match engine can have any number of effects, good or bad. You need to read Neil Brock's post that I linked to someone else, above, as well. 

But, no, let's just repeat everything that is already known in as ranty and unconstructive a way as is possible. Because that will really help!

Edited December 28, 2019 by anagain

[Maldini's Heir]

29 minutes ago, anagain said:

For me this last paragraph shows just how unlikely it is for SI to ever win. If people weren't complaining about the match engine then they would be complaining that the game doesn't look as nice as games like FIFA. 

It also shows just how little people will understand the game. Of course SI have to program for users to change the game. Every substitution or player you put in your team changes games. 

So you want the game to be a series of events do you? You want to take away everything great that football manager has going for it to turn it in to a cheap mobile style game? 

Then we have the beauty that is asking how SI missed this. It just proves that you have no understanding or care regarding how game development, and coding of a game as complex as FM, actually works. There are thousands of different ways in which this game is played. From teams in lower leagues with basic formations to the likes of Man City and Barcelona. SI are a small team and yet you expect them to catch every little problem that can happen with this game.

There's also the fact that any change to the match engine can have any number of effects, good or bad. You need to read Neil Brock's post that I linked to someone else, above, as well. 

But, no, let's just repeat everything that is already known in as ranty and unconstructive a way as is possible. Because that will really help!

What I meant from that is that the issue is not the outcome (the story), it's how it's told.

Certain actions lead to certain events e.g. a goal. A 1v1 situation. Even - a chip over the top of a high defensive line.

That's the outcome. The developers can look at real footage of real matches and see how this outcome comes about in real matches. 

 

[anagain]

12 minutes ago, Maldini's Heir said:

What I meant from that is that the issue is not the outcome (the story), it's how it's told.

Certain actions lead to certain events e.g. a goal. A 1v1 situation. Even - a chip over the top of a high defensive line.

That's the outcome. The developers can look at real footage of real matches and see how this outcome comes about in real matches. 

 

They've still got to code it, and it's clear you have no reasonable understanding of how the match engine is coded by the small team that SI is. I'm pretty sure they already try to make the match engine as authetic as is possible, it just happens that problems crop up with changes to the match engine, as they have done this year. I know they employ football experts to help with the tactical side of the game, and how to best implement that in FM. It used to be, and might still be, Roy Houghton.

Besides, is football really as simple as certain events leading to other certain events in any way that you obviously think is so? Football is a complex game. SI then have to put that in to code and make it work. There was a great post some time back from a member of SI that explained the match engine code, how complex it is and how it takes an experienced user to even do anything with it. I wish I could find it again. I am sure it was on this forum.

For what it's worth, every year I watch the new match engine and I feel it is the best it has been. I thought that this year when I watched matches in beta. I think this problem with long balls cropped up with a patch. I never saw it in beta or shortly after release. I wonder if SI tried to fix something else and this is the knock on effect. However angry about that someone can be, it doesn't help to not understand that SI is a small team with limited resources. It is also Christmas and these people have families they want to spend time with.

Also, if you want people to perfectly grasp what you mean, and not misunderstand what you write, then try to be more constructive and less ranty with what you post.

Edited December 28, 2019 by anagain

[Tony Wright 747]

7 minutes ago, anagain said:

They've still got to code it, and it's clear you have no reasonable understanding of how the match engine is coded by the small team that SI is. I'm pretty sure they already try to make the match engine as authetic as is possible, it just happens that problems crop up with changes to the match engine, as they have done this year. I know they employ football experts to help with the tactical side of the game, and how to best implement that in FM. It used to be, and might still be, Roy Houghton.

Besides, is football really as simple as certain events leading to other certain events in any way that you obviously think is so? Football is a complex game. SI then have to put that in to code and make it work. There was a great post some time back from a member of SI that explained the match engine code, how complex it is and how it takes an experienced user to even do anything with it. I wish I could find it again. I am sure it was on this forum.

For what it's worth, every year I watch the new match engine and I feel it is the best it has been. I thought that this year when I watched matches in beta. I think this problem with long balls cropped up with a patch. I never saw it in beta or shortly after release. I wonder if SI tried to fix something else and this is the knock on effect. However angry about that someone can be, it doesn't help to not understand that SI is a small team with limited resources. It is also Christmas and these people have families they want to spend time with.

Also, if you want people to perfectly grasp what you mean, and not misunderstand what you write, then try to be more constructive and less ranty with what you post.

It's Ray Houghton not Roy

[thejay]

vor einer Stunde schrieb anagain:

For me this last paragraph shows just how unlikely it is for SI to ever win. If people weren't complaining about the match engine then they would be complaining that the game doesn't look as nice as games like FIFA. 

It also shows just how little people will understand the game. Of course SI have to program for users to change the game. Every substitution or player you put in your team changes games. 

So you want the game to be a series of events do you? You want to take away everything great that football manager has going for it to turn it in to a cheap mobile style game? 

Then we have the beauty that is asking how SI missed this. It just proves that you have no understanding or care regarding how game development, and coding of a game as complex as FM, actually works. There are thousands of different ways in which this game is played. From teams in lower leagues with basic formations to the likes of Man City and Barcelona. SI are a small team and yet you expect them to catch every little problem that can happen with this game.

There's also the fact that any change to the match engine can have any number of effects, good or bad. You need to read Neil Brock's post that I linked to someone else, above, as well. 

But, no, let's just repeat everything that is already known in as ranty and unconstructive a way as is possible. Because that will really help!

 

 

 

 

you dont need to test 1000 ways the game is played to see the issues, you can fire up any tactic any team or play style and you can see the same issues in a matter of minutes 

[anagain]

2 minutes ago, thejay said:

you dont need to test 1000 ways the game is played to see the issues, you can fire up any tactic any team or play style and you can see the same issues in a matter of minutes 

That is simply not true. I have seen plenty of matches that do not experience continual balls over the top and one on ones. In my experience the issue is a result of a high line.

Regardless any fix needs to be tested and to not be shown to cause new issues. 

[dannyfc]

52 minutes ago, anagain said:

That is simply not true. I have seen plenty of matches that do not experience continual balls over the top and one on ones. In my experience the issue is a result of a high line.

But how do you combat the opposition being continually exposed to the ball of the top? Should high-lines be simply eradicated despite being a legitimate strategy in real life? Even setting to a patient and short passing game won't prevent your own players from attempting them, and it's counter-intuitive regardless if the objective is to win. 

I play a deep , low block and don't experience many problems with long-balls. My issue is seeing my own defenders exploit it with inch perfect 50 yard passes despite not having the attributes to do so, and my midfield being constantly bypassed. I'm winning games but it's just utterly tedious to watch. I don't actually mind direct football, I just want to feel I've earnt it through building a physically dominant side and capitalising on opportunist balls. 

It's easy to exploit the game and win, but that doesn't make it enjoyable to play. I want to see tactical and individual variety so I know the decisions I make are influencing the match engine in a realistic manner. Without that it isn't a football simulation. 

Rest of the game outside the ME is superb which makes it all the more frustrating. Can't wait to get stuck into the training and squad development once the engine flaws are ironed out

Edited December 28, 2019 by dannyfc

[anagain]

57 minutes ago, dannyfc said:

But how do you combat the opposition being continually exposed to the ball of the top? Should high-lines be simply eradicated despite being a legitimate strategy in real life? Even setting to a patient and short passing game won't prevent your own players from attempting them, and it's counter-intuitive regardless if the objective is to win. 

I play a deep , low block and don't experience many problems with long-balls. My issue is seeing my own defenders exploit it with inch perfect 50 yard passes despite not having the attributes to do so, and my midfield being constantly bypassed. I'm winning games but it's just utterly tedious to watch. I don't actually mind direct football, I just want to feel I've earnt it through building a physically dominant side and capitalising on opportunist balls. 

It's easy to exploit the game and win, but that doesn't make it enjoyable to play. I want to see tactical and individual variety so I know the decisions I make are influencing the match engine in a realistic manner. Without that it isn't a football simulation. 

Rest of the game outside the ME is superb which makes it all the more frustrating. Can't wait to get stuck into the training and squad development once the engine flaws are ironed out

I never have said the problem shouldn't be fixed. I've just said I don't experience it in every game. Maybe it's the level my team play at. I do play a very attacking game with a high line. I just don't find it evident in every match I play that the opposition are getting an advantage. That is just my experience

My main point in my replies is that people need to understand how the game works and how SI go about fixing issues like this. Patience is required by all. It doesn't help anyone to come on the forums and rant and rave about how the issue is apalling and how SI are not doing their jobs etc etc. Fixing the Match engine is not a simple job. If they make quick changes they might just make a worse problem.

The reason I even replied again to this post was that I saw badgerwhacker's reply to an earlier post of mine to say I was being blind in defending SI. It's not a case of being blind. I just think game developers that work bloody hard need some patience and respect from those that play the game. People are so "angry" about this that they rarely read thoroughly what is said, but they just jump down people's throats. For sure there is an issue, but, and as I've said, a rant and a rave will not fix it. I'm not defending the issue. I was just bought up to treat people how I expect to be treated.

It's just a game, people.

Edited December 28, 2019 by anagain

[dannyfc]

38 minutes ago, anagain said:

I never have said the problem shouldn't be fixed. I've just said I don't experience it in every game. Maybe it's the level my team play at. I do play a very attacking game with a high line. I just don't find it evident in every match I play that the opposition are getting an advantage. That is just my experience

My main point in my replies is that people need to understand how the game works and how SI go about fixing issues like this. Patience is required by all. It doesn't help anyone to come on the forums and rant and rave about how the issue is apalling and how SI are not doing their jobs etc etc. Fixing the Match engine is not a simple job. If they make quick changes they might just make a worse problem.

The reason I even replied again to this post was that I saw badgerwhacker's reply to an earlier post of mine to say I was being blind in defending SI. It's not a case of being blind. I just think game developers that work bloody hard need some patience and respect from those that play the game. People are so "angry" about this that they rarely read thoroughly what is said, but they just jump down people's throats. For sure there is an issue, but, and as I've said, a rant and a rave will not fix it. I'm not defending the issue. I was just bought up to treat people how I expect to be treated.

It's just a game, people.

Ah OK fair enough, fully agree with that. 

I have full faith that Sigames are aware and doing everything they can to rectify the issue. None of us here are qualified enough to demand a quick fix, so appreciate that. 

However, I do take exception to posts that try and minimise legitimate concerns. I understand that the majority of the player base don't care about the intricacies for the match engine, and SI could easily ignore it and still continue to make successful profit game every year so I'm glad they are actively engaged. 

That said I'm still an avid but disappointed fan that strongly feels the ME has been significantly weaker in the last two years. Not everyone will agree but it rankles when the same posters will try to deflect what are legitimate concerns. 

For me, anyone that is interested tactics and football knows the current ME isn't a decent simulation of football. Best on the market yeah, but still deeply flawed. Ironically I feel the most vocal critics are potentially those that have most enjoyed previous iterations, and are less able to ignore the imperfections and just enjoy it for the game it is. 

And I feel those of us that want that addressed get continually batted away as sore losers, or not understanding tactics, or being too picky. Not by Sigames, but this weird contingent of online defenders that simply aren't willing to accept negative feedback without nitpicking. 

That last bit isn't directed at you, I think I just misinterpreted your original post. 

[KUBI]

Maybe it would be helpful if people are open in both ways?

There are issues with the ME and all of them are already known and documented.

But there are also enough reports that those issues are not "universal", they happen in some matches more often or less or never than in others, depending on league, reputation and tactics.

To find out why it is that way and how to fix/adjust it,  is the big challenge for the match team.

But they need for that both kind of examples.

 

[badgerwhacker]

9 hours ago, anagain said:

Please tell me where they have acknowledged it is gamebreaking. They have acknowledged there are issues. There is also a very good post from Neil Brock that I suggest you read. 

The reason I have said what I have said is that personally speaking the issue has not affected me to the extent by which it might effect others. I see long balls by the opposition but my defense handles it. So before you accuse me of blindly supporting a game I love, I think you want to appreciate that not everyone is in the same position as you. SI work bloody hard for a small team, and I think you need to understand that too. People get far too upset and melodramatic over a game. It's not game breaking. 

 

They haven't acknowledged it's gamebreaking (they never would) but it is for me. I've also already read Neil's posts and I knew this would be an issue that won't resolve itself any time soon unfortunately because the extent of balancing work that needs to be done. My point to you was that SI acknowledge there are serious issues in the match engine. Don't be condescending to people by claiming it's their approach in the game because clearly the game is amplifying the weaknesses within certain tactical approaches beyond what is reasonable. In last year's version, you'd address it by changing the defensive line - are you sure that even works this year?

I also know fine well and appreciate how hard SI work and they've raised the issues they've had over recruiting for ME coders. In my line of work, if you're struggling to recruit, you need to consider paying more.

Ultimately, if you're comfortable playing an imbalanced game because you can overlook. or that it's not exposed within your tactical approach. then fair play to you. I can't look at a screen and kid myself on that what I'm seeing is realistic or acceptable and that any changes I make are reflective of real life scenarios.

For the record, the ME last year was as near perfect as you can expect. I've held off posting on here because I hate to come across as 'having a go' - particularly of a group of people who have provided me so much enjoyment over the last 20 years.  I can't play the game as it stands but I also know they'll be doing their utmost to address it.

[FM1000]

Thank god i didnt buy the game. Will wait until final patch so i wont be financing a game full of bugs. Actually this is not even a 'bug' by software development terms, because its the same story every year.

Is it really so hard to make good player play like good players in the ME? Even good players miss 1 vs 1 but there is a difference IRL between Messi and Piontek. Not in FM though were conversion difference between players is so low it might as well be hard coded.

I know it is hard to develop the ME. But dont ur developers have a test environment? Like some test scenarios where they can fine tune the attributes for players in a play sequence to see what seems real and what not? And why not implement some Pseudo Random Distribution for various outcomes? You probably did but its so space i swear i can guess the outcome of every highlight half way through, there is like 0 variety in highlights.

[dannyfc]

2 hours ago, KUBI said:

Maybe it would be helpful if people are open in both ways?

There are issues with the ME and all of them are already known and documented.

But there are also enough reports that those issues are not "universal", they happen in some matches more often or less or never than in others, depending on league, reputation and tactics.

To find out why it is that way and how to fix/adjust it,  is the big challenge for the match team.

But they need for that both kind of examples.

 

Personally I find it hard to believe there can be such differing match engine experiences.

It all comes down to personal preference and tolerance. There's going to be imbalances in any engine, and I guess in older versions I've just been able to suspend my disbelief for enjoyment. 

Like I said everyone I've met in real life is thoroughly enjoying it. The difference is they have completely different expectations. They all play key highlights with the same bog standard gegenpress tactic. They don't care about engine interacies or tactical exploits. Which is fine and means as a game itself its definitely not 'broken', and I agree people shouldn't be hounded for liking it. 

That said, any counter example I've seen regarding the prevalence of long balls, lack of square/through balls, or poor 1-on-1 conversions don't meet my expectations. I don't see any evidence it isn't inherent in other games, it's just another users different interpretation or justification as to why its realistic. 

My point is its already established that for a small minority these problems are obvious, and we're just looking for understanding as to why and whether it can be easily addressed. SI don't owe any of us an explanation, but I'd prefer silence than a hoard desperately trying to convince us otherwise.