Anyone clinched the premier league title using 4123 on FM20?

[Braincomplexa]

442 and 3 at the back tactics have been very good to me, but for the life of me can't figure out a 4123 tactic that works consistently enough. I know you need the right players, but my team is a create a club and quite good. Here's the overview of the tactic, inspired by Klopp 

What am I doing wrong? 

[SpecialOne Miko]

Your midfield is too defensive and your wings too attacking. 

 

Keep the DLPde, but set the RCM on CMa, and the right AM on support too. On the left flank/side, set the Fullback on support, keep the IF on attack, and try the LCM on Mezzala-support.

 

so something like this;

                                                                                 F9

                                                             IFa                                     IWs

                                                                         MEZs      CMa 

                                                                                 DLPde  

                                                             FBs        CD          CD           FBa

                                                                               SKs

 

For the Instructions,  i recommend to start with none, and see what happens.

Edited January 13, 2020 by SpecialOne Miko

[Braincomplexa]

I'm trying to create 235 formation in attack with FB's set to wide and IF/IW's set to narrow. But I figured the midfield was too defensive, I've had good success with Mezzala and PF(A) with long through balls over the top, so the Mezzala may be non-negotiable. I'll give the rest a try, cheers! P.S. Did you manage to win the premier league with 4123? lol

Edited January 13, 2020 by Braincomplexa

[Experienced Defender]

4 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

 

4 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

What am I doing wrong? 

Very unbalanced tactic with needlessly aggressive instructions. A lot should be changed if you ask me. 

 

4 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

442 and 3 at the back tactics have been very good to me, but for the life of me can't figure out a 4123 tactic that works consistently enough

The 4123 is actually the easiest formation to set up - at least as far as I am concerned - because it is optimally balanced overall. 

 

4 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Here's the overview of the tactic, inspired by Klopp

Sorry mate, but this tactic is nowhere near to how Klopp plays. 

If you want a tactic that is similar to Klopp's style and employs the 4123 formation, I would recommend something like this:

F9

IWsu                                     IFat

CAR     MEZsu

DMde

WBat     CDde  BPDde   WBsu

SKsu/at

Positive mentality

- play out of defense, shorter passing, higher tempo (not extremely high), be more expressive

- counter, counter-press

- higher DL, standard LOE, more urgent pressing (and split block)

This is not a literal replication of Klopp-ball, but is pretty much based on his style.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me 

[Braincomplexa]

Thank you for ur reply, I'll give it a try and let you know when I come back from work today!

Edited January 13, 2020 by Braincomplexa

[Braincomplexa]

21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

The 4123 is actually the easiest formation to set up - at least as far as I am concerned - because it is optimally balanced overall. 

Agree 4123 being optimally balanced in theory, but personally it's the hardest system to get right in FM20, feature of the match engine and/or my grand lack of knowledge of tactics - anyhow been getting much better results with the same players using 2 striker or 3 at the back tactics.

I've seen you elsewhere post you've been using 4123 with Utd, have you won the premier league with it? All I want is confirmation that it is possible on FM20, lol

Quote

F9

IWsu                                     IFat

CAR     MEZsu

DMde

WBat     CDde  BPDde   WBsu

SKsu/at

Positive mentality

- play out of defense, shorter passing, higher tempo (not extremely high), be more expressive

- counter, counter-press

- higher DL, standard LOE, more urgent pressing (and split block)

This is not a literal replication of Klopp-ball, but is pretty much based on his style.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask me 

Good result so far, lost to third placed Utd, but won against 1st place Liverpool. So there's promise with this tactic.

What in game tactical tweaks would you do with this tactic assuming you were playing good players at Utd? Run at defence and pass into space if lacking creativity and spark? Wider attacking width against parked buses? Stop play out of defense against team that press high?

Note: can't do a split block press with more urgent team pressing, only standard or lower. Edit: I think I just figured out you can actually on specific positions. Will try the split block now! 

Thank you so much again

Edited January 14, 2020 by Braincomplexa

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Braincomplexa said:

I've seen you elsewhere post you've been using 4123 with Utd, have you won the premier league with it? All I want is confirmation that it is possible on FM20, lol

My Utd save was from FM19, but there is very little difference between FM19 and 20 in terms of tactics. Good and well-balanced tactics that work(ed) in FM19 are highly likely to work in FM20 as well. Which IMO is great.

I haven't won a title with Utd, although that was not my primary goal and I played only one season (because I tend to manage multiple saves/clubs to see how good I am at applying my tactical knowledge and philosophy to different types of teams). My goal (as always) was to meet board expectations, which I did by finishing the season 4th and consequently qualifying for the ECL, as well as reaching the ECL quarterfinals.

Btw, I initially used the narrow 442 diamond formation. The 4123 was introduced later in the season, when the schedule became too busy, so I needed to lift some burden from my fullbacks. 

2 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

What in game tactical tweaks would you do with this tactic assuming you were playing good players at Utd?

My in-game tweaks depend on what I observe watching the match, so they are not always same. But given that my tactics are simple and balanced, I rarely need to make more than just a couple of tweaks. 

 

2 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Run at defence and pass into space if lacking creativity and spark?

I almost never used the Run at defence TI at United. But I did use the "Dribble more" PI on occasion, mostly for Pogba. 

As for passing into space, that's the instruction that I generally use situationally, but very rarely as part of my primary (starting) tactic. When I used it, it was mostly in away games against other top teams when they dared to attack us more aggressively after we had taken the lead. 

2 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Wider attacking width against parked buses?

That's one of options, yes.

2 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Stop play out of defense against team that press high?

Not in all instances, but certainly an option (as above). Because sometimes you can take advantage of the opposition high pressing by drawing them onto yourself and then hitting them by a sudden long pass from the back directly to your striker for a 1 vs 1 with the opposition keeper  

 

2 hours ago, Braincomplexa said:

Note: can't do a split block press with more urgent team pressing, only standard or lower

Makes sense. And even better if you ask me. So drop the team pressing to standard (default) and then apply the split block. A lot safer than upping the pressing urgency for the entire team. 

[Maldini's Heir]

I have.....with the the slight help of one or two restarts....but I did win three titles in a row with Milan and, without re-starts, I have finished in the top 3.

I play a Balanced 4123 and choose the roles that are the most suited to the specific players.

• Upfront I play a Poacher when I'm using Piatek, Pressing Forward when I use Rebic, Advanced Forward when I use Leao and Deep Lying Forward when I use Ibrahimovic.
• The game tells me that Suso's best position is Inside Forward and so I play him in this position on the right with the Support setting. 
• I'm trying (unsuccessfully) to retrain Leao as an Inside Forward so sometimes play him on the left with the Attack setting. Bonaventura recently has had a run without injuries so I am playing him on the left in an Advanced Play Maker role/Attack;
• Generally I'll play Paqueta in an Advanced Play Maker/Attacking role on the left side of centre mid;
• Generally I'll play Kessie in a Box to Box Midfielder/Support role or Krunic in a CM/Support role;
• Bennacer's best position in the game is a Deep Lying Midfielder so that's the role I give him with a Defensive setting;
• In defence I go pretty basic: Two FBs on Support settings and two CBs on Defence settings - defence is my strongest area.  

I keep instructions to a minimum - changing tempo, passing directness and discpline/expressivieness as the game progresses.

Working the Ball into the box was not creating any goals (and was constantly being ignored) so I'm now Hitting Early Crosses/Whipped In/Passing Into Space and am starting to score a lot more goals.

I sometimes switch players around so will switch wingers or the two attacking midfielders and with Bonaventura playing on left of the front three I've started switching him with Paqueta. That has all brought some success.

If a team plays a man in the hole I get my DM to man mark that player.

In transition I Counter/Press and all that jazz.

I don't Close Down the keeper (waste of a player). 

I don't get Stuck In (poor defending technique generally).

I also have the option to drop back to a Cautious 451 (which seems to work) or an attacking 442 (which is pretty useless). I have also had some success with pushing Paqueta forward into a AM role in 4231 (more success than I have had with 442).