(FM20) - 433 Vertical TikiTaka Tactic Help

[Irn Rvd]

Hey Guys! I have been researching on here and fm base looking for a Vertical TikiTaka (433) that I can use as my main tactic. I have another tactic I can use that worked great for a while but as my team is getting bigger and stronger, I am struggling to break down stubborn defences as the underdogs are parking the bus. Im looking for help to create a Vertical TikiTaka tactic that can:

- Have a decent amount of possession

- High pressure on opponents

- Play good football but also create CCC

I know, I know, this is very cliche and everybody wants a tactic like this but hey.

This tactic is based off Experience Defenders comments. Also Bustthenets videos.

No OIs, No PIs so far. 

So far, I am able keep the defence relatively solid, have really good possession (maybe too much) but still cant create many CCC. When I do get CCC its mostly the striker 1v1 (who scores 1 out of 10 of them) or the AML/AMR coming into the edge of the box and shooting side netting.

I have had decent results with this tactic but other times its just drops off like most tactics. For example, I beat chelsea 4 - 1 at home, 6 CCC created throughout the game (no 1v1) and thought my team had finally cracked it. Played St Johnstone home and away same team a week later, no fitness issues, drew 0-0 and got beat 2-1. Created 3 CCCs in two games. Goal was a penalty. I have drew four games 0-0 completely dominating possession but just not creating the right kind of CCCs.

I am playing in the premiership with leeds 3rd season. Squad is probably good enough for top 6. Most players bought have high determination, meduim-high work rate. Passing is ok is squad but could be better. Im thinking this is probably my issue but I would like help identifying.

Please see attached image of tactic and squad. Any feedback will be appreciated. Thanks.

 

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by Irn Rvd

[Kripster]

I just take off iw(su), maybe an if(su) be better for a more verticak game..

[Irn Rvd]

2 hours ago, Kripster said:

I just take off iw(su), maybe an if(su) be better for a more verticak game..

Will rest this later tonight. Thanks for your help. 
anything else you can see? Or should I just try get better players with more creative mental and passing stats? 

[Experienced Defender]

11 hours ago, Irn Rvd said:

The setup of roles and duties and in-possession instructions look good (as far as I am concerned). The rest might need some tweaking though. But even if you create a "perfect" tactic, you still need to make sure it suits your players. Because what works great for one (type of) team will not necessarily work for another. Therefore you need to adapt it to your own team.

Btw, why do you relate this tactic to a "tiki-taka" (vertical or whatever)?

[Irn Rvd]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The setup of roles and duties and in-possession instructions look good (as far as I am concerned). The rest might need some tweaking though. But even if you create a "perfect" tactic, you still need to make sure it suits your players. Because what works great for one (type of) team will not necessarily work for another. Therefore you need to adapt it to your own team.

Btw, why do you relate this tactic to a "tiki-taka" (vertical or whatever)?

Thanks for your response. 
Make sense. Trial and error is the only way to succeed I suppose. I think my team just might not be suited to a shorter passing game but I was getting bored of the more direct passing tactics so hence why I tried to make this. Also the more direct 433s are way less adaptable and im finding it tough to break down park the bus teams.

Im not sure if vertical tikitaka is accurate, but that tactic description is how I would like to play. 
- High pressing
- possession based
- more purpose and penetration than just a normal tikitaka

Im not sure if its more a hybrid of gegenpressing and tikitaka is what I am looking for. If you have a more accurate title, that would be awesome.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Irn Rvd said:

Trial and error is the only way to succeed I suppose

In essence - yes. Of course, asking for advice is always good, because it helps you avoid making (too) big and unnecessary mistakes. But at the same time, only you know your team and watch your matches. So ultimately, it comes down to "do it yourself"  

 

1 hour ago, Irn Rvd said:

Im not sure if its more a hybrid of gegenpressing and tikitaka is what I am looking for. If you have a more accurate title, that would be awesome

I call this style "progressive possession football", and that's what I prefer to play when I manage a top team. The key difference between my style and yours is that I do not use more (let alone extremely) urgent pressing. Instead, I go with a split block, which is safer defensively. 

[Irn Rvd]

On 17/01/2020 at 11:08, Experienced Defender said:

In essence - yes. Of course, asking for advice is always good, because it helps you avoid making (too) big and unnecessary mistakes. But at the same time, only you know your team and watch your matches. So ultimately, it comes down to "do it yourself"  

 

I call this style "progressive possession football", and that's what I prefer to play when I manage a top team. The key difference between my style and yours is that I do not use more (let alone extremely) urgent pressing. Instead, I go with a split block, which is safer defensively. 

Hi!!

Sorry, I commented on too many posts and was unable to reply to this.

 

Thanks for your feedback. Progressive possession football it is!!!!

 

I have ended up with this tactic from your comments. It works pretty well, football being played is good to watch but still has room for improvement. I notice it can be inconsistent but I think thats more todo with my squad. Im in my third season in the prem and as you know, everyone has crazy good squads by then.

 

           PF(a) or DLF(a) - Depending on striker

IF(s)                          IW(s)

        DLP(s) MEZ (a)

                HB(d)

WB(a) CD (d) CD (d) FB (s)

                 SK(s)

 

Short passing, Play out of defence, more expressive, work ball into box

Counter press, goal keeper takes short kicks (keeper kicking is 18)

High line of defence, High line of engagement

Pis - Split block on front four

OI - none

 

Main issue I am having is the the MEZ(a) having average ratings almost every game. Ive been experimenting with different roles and Pis, but was unable to make it better. The wingers are next in line for inconsistency, but i think thats pretty realistic. My secondary to main issue is how to change the team instructions when things are not going great. Im not really sure how to impact the game without messing up the tactic. Say I need a goal with 20 mins left, or i need to hold the lead, Im not really sure how to instruct this. 
To try see a game out, ive tried lowering the tempo and also the line of engagement, removing counter press to try keep more possession. This sometimes works. Nothing ive changed to try and get a goal ever works though. 
Any feedback is appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

[Experienced Defender]

25 minutes ago, Irn Rvd said:

removing counter press to try keep more possession

Why would you remove the Counter-press if you want to keep possession ??? When you want to keep possession, you can remove the Counter TI (not counter-press). But you don't use the Counter anyway.

[Irn Rvd]

13 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Why would you remove the Counter-press if you want to keep possession ??? When you want to keep possession, you can remove the Counter TI (not counter-press). But you don't use the Counter anyway.

Ok. It was to try and be more conservative but that makes sense. Thanks for your help.

[Diogo28]

My tactic is pretty much the same as yours.

 

Defensively solid.

I feel i'm getting good results against top teams but struggle a lot against weaker sides, winning by 1 goal (many from set pieces and penalties) and not creating a lot.

My strikers are kinda useless too. Sometimes i put the AML as IF-A and the Striker as DLP-S or F9 but i'm still struggling a lot to score.

 

Any hints?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Irn Rvd said:

Ok. It was to try and be more conservative but that makes sense

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with removing the counter-press when you want to be more solid defensively (and avoid the risks of aggressive pressing). I just wanted to emphasize that it has nothing to do with keeping possession. 

[Irn Rvd]

1 hour ago, Diogo28 said:

My tactic is pretty much the same as yours.

 

Defensively solid.

I feel i'm getting good results against top teams but struggle a lot against weaker sides, winning by 1 goal (many from set pieces and penalties) and not creating a lot.

My strikers are kinda useless too. Sometimes i put the AML as IF-A and the Striker as DLP-S or F9 but i'm still struggling a lot to score.

 

Any hints?

I dont have any hints yet but If I find a solution I will let you know. 

Im gonna try a few tweaks this week and see what happens. 
Wish me luck lol

[Irn Rvd]

13 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

To be clear, there is nothing wrong with removing the counter-press when you want to be more solid defensively (and avoid the risks of aggressive pressing). I just wanted to emphasize that it has nothing to do with keeping possession. 

Its ok, I know what you mean. thanks for clarifying though