4-2-4 possession based

[Sharkn20]

Hi guys,

Am struggling to bring the ball from the back with this formation. If I have BWM and CM, my CBs just punt the ball away in possession to my strikers and wingers as appareantly they can't receive the "pass me" from the midfielders as they don't create from the back. And if I have DM + CM we bring the ball from the back beatifully but defending are a bit more leaker in the middle... 

What combinations do you use in the middle to bring the ball from the back.

Positive mentality, short passes, low tempo, bring ball from the back activated, not much more in creation.

[pheelf]

Hi,

Personally, I wouldn't choose the 4-2-4 formation if looking to create a possession based style. It's deficient in 2 key areas which are required to dominate possession.

1) It will often be outnumbered in the central midfield zone which is a vital area of the pitch when it comes to controlling possession. 

2) The natural spacing between the players is too large to give your players enough close options for passes around them needed to retain possession effectively.

I think you may also be under the wrong impression with a few things.

A positive mentality means that players will take more risks and be more adventurous with their passing and forward movement. This kind of runs contrary to what you need when trying to play a patient possession based style.

Also, selecting certain TIs such as short passing and play of defence is no guarantee that you will observe that behaviour. If a player has the ball and there is nobody in the immediate vicinity to receive the ball they will resort to playing it long which will happen often because of the aforementioned spread of your players and also because their mentality which is forward looking.

Finally, simply saying that you are looking for a possession based style doesn't tell us very much about anything. Dominating possession is a means to an end, not the end in of itself. There are also different types of possession game utilized for different purposes.

For e.g. you could base a possession game around a defensive game plan with the aim of holding onto the ball to deprive the opposition of having it with the calculation that if they don't have the ball they can't score against you while making little effort to score when you do have the ball and instead looking to hold shape.

OR alternatively

you could base a possession game around trying to play quick short incisive passes to pull opposition players out of position in an attempt to play through them which is more of an attacking approach.

You need to ask yourself some questions

- Who do I expect to come deep from the midfield and collect the ball from my defenders?

- When my midfielder successfully does that, then what? Who does he have near him that he can pass to and continue the forward momentum of the attack?

- Where on the pitch do I want to attempt a turnover of possession? (What your players do off the ball is just as important as what they do with the ball in a possession based style)

- Which players do I want to be the distraction runners that will create space? 

- Who do I expect to be my main goalscorer and what type of service do I need to provide for him?

- Who is going to provide the width in the the team and when will it arrive during the attack?

- Who in the team is tasked with providing a deeper outlet to recycle possession?

- What's Plan B if trying to pass through the opposition isn't working?

Hopefully, I've provided some help

Best Regards

[Experienced Defender]

12 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Hi guys,

Am struggling to bring the ball from the back with this formation. If I have BWM and CM, my CBs just punt the ball away in possession to my strikers and wingers as appareantly they can't receive the "pass me" from the midfielders as they don't create from the back. And if I have DM + CM we bring the ball from the back beatifully but defending are a bit more leaker in the middle... 

What combinations do you use in the middle to bring the ball from the back.

Positive mentality, short passes, low tempo, bring ball from the back activated, not much more in creation

The 424 as a formation is not optimally suited for possession-oriented styles of football. I already told this to a guy who was trying to do it as well. There is a way to make it more possession-friendly through a proper setup of roles and duties. This is the setup I proposed to him:

DLFsu   PO

IFsu                               APsu

DLPsu/de  CAR

FBat    CDde  CDde   WBsu

GK/SKde

Basically, the whole team is working for the poacher. There are 2 PMs in different types of PM roles controlling different areas of the pitch. Most players are on support duties to help keep and circulate the ball until an opening occurs. 2 relatively conservative CM roles allow for the fullbacks bombing forward more regularly to provide width in attack, including a natural overlap. 

12 hours ago, Sharkn20 said:

Positive mentality, short passes, low tempo, bring ball from the back activated, not much more in creation

If you want to make it even more possession-oriented, you can add the Work ball into box TI. But be careful if your players are not good enough to keep the ball in tight areas of space under pressure. 

What are your out-of-possession and in-transition instructions? They are also very important. 

[Sharkn20]

4 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

The 424 as a formation is not optimally suited for possession-oriented styles of football. I already told this to a guy who was trying to do it as well. There is a way to make it more possession-friendly through a proper setup of roles and duties. This is the setup I proposed to him:

DLFsu   PO

IFsu                               APsu

DLPsu/de  CAR

FBat    CDde  CDde   WBsu

GK/SKde

Basically, the whole team is working for the poacher. There are 2 PMs in different types of PM roles controlling different areas of the pitch. Most players are on support duties to help keep and circulate the ball until an opening occurs. 2 relatively conservative CM roles allow for the fullbacks bombing forward more regularly to provide width in attack, including a natural overlap. 

If you want to make it even more possession-oriented, you can add the Work ball into box TI. But be careful if your players are not good enough to keep the ball in tight areas of space under pressure. 

What are your out-of-possession and in-transition instructions? They are also very important. 

Transition are Re-Group and Distribute to CB.

Out of Posession, no specific instructions. Occasionally defend wider if the other team attacks through the wings >70% of the time.

[Experienced Defender]

45 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Transition are Re-Group and Distribute to CB

Regroup makes no sense if you want to play possession football. You can either go with the counter-press or leave both unselected (if you fear that your players are not good enough to execute the c-press properly).

Distribute to CBs makes sense, although I would add FBs as well (to give the keeper more options for safety reasons). 

48 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

Out of Posession, no specific instructions

Well, no instructions is not a bad idea in general. But given that you want to play possession football, that may not be aggressive enough. Because possession football is not only about keeping the ball as much as possible when you have it, but also winning it back as soon as possible when you lose it. You should at least turn the Prevent short GKD on given that you play in a top-heavy system. 

[Sharkn20]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Regroup makes no sense if you want to play possession football. You can either go with the counter-press or leave both unselected (if you fear that your players are not good enough to execute the c-press properly).

Distribute to CBs makes sense, although I would add FBs as well (to give the keeper more options for safety reasons). 

Well, no instructions is not a bad idea in general. But given that you want to play possession football, that may not be aggressive enough. Because possession football is not only about keeping the ball as much as possible when you have it, but also winning it back as soon as possible when you lose it. You should at least turn the Prevent short GKD on given that you play in a top-heavy system. 

Thanks man, that's really useful, I'll apply those changes and see how it goes.

As we are on it, what are the best formations to play possession football? 

[Experienced Defender]

17 minutes ago, Sharkn20 said:

As we are on it, what are the best formations to play possession football? 

I personally prefer the 4141dm wide (a.k.a. 4123). It's the best balanced system overall, so can suit not only possession but almost any style of play. 

Among top-heavy formations, the 4231 is clearly more suitable for possession styles than 424.