Tactic sugestions

[gofferson]

Hello guys,

It's my first post here. My English isn't perfect so be understanding please.In fm19  I'm trying manage Wisla Krakow from Polish league. firstly I tried with 442 but my players isn't hard working peoples so the results wasn't perfect. I changed formation to 4231 with some tactical tweaks, but again the results wasn't satysfying. in 15 games i have only 16 points. Media see us on 8th place but we are now on 12th. The Polish league isn't hard but my players are not the best players from the league but not the worst. So there is my question how can I change something in my tactic, maybe training to improve my situation on the table. I want to add that i don't know what style of football is the best for this players so in this think sugestion about style are welcomed.

 

Edited February 27, 2020 by gofferson

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, gofferson said:

The first and most important thing about the 4231 formation - both players that play in CM positions need to be defensively reliable, regardless of the roles you give them. Otherwise, you could end up defensively exposed even if you have a "perfect" tactic in terms of roles, duties and instructions.

Now, let's see the tactic...

You play on a lower line of engagement, which in combination with standard D-line should give you an optimal level of compactness when defending. It also tends to create more space for your forwards by drawing the opposition into your own half, which is good if you want to hit them on the counter as your primary strategy. However, your other instructions are not really counter-attack oriented. 

1 hour ago, gofferson said:

I want to add that i don't know what style of football is the best for this players so in this think sugestion about style are welcomed

Well, that's the problem. We don't know your players, so how can we tell you what style of football would be optimal for your team?

Unless you post screenshots of your players' profiles.

[Experienced Defender]

Wojtkowski is not good enough to play in a CM position in a 4231. 

Of all your midfielders, only Basha can play in a 4231.

[gofferson]

@Experienced Defender Thank you so much for your answers. Maybe better option is back both wingers to second line and try counter attacks with wingers. Blaszczykowski end Pietrzak both are good enough to cross the ball to the penalty box and help on defense I think a balanced mentality is good options for my defese but i dont know how to setup my attackers to play counter attacking style. I'll be greatful for some tips to setup team to fast simple counters. Ill try to bring good midfielders but its hard becouse my team dont have money

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, gofferson said:

@Experienced Defender Thank you so much for your answers. Maybe better option is back both wingers to second line and try counter attacks with wingers. Blaszczykowski end Pietrzak both are good enough to cross the ball to the penalty box and help on defense I think a balanced mentality is good options for my defese but i dont know how to setup my attackers to play counter attacking style. I'll be greatful for some tips to setup team to fast simple counters. Ill try to bring good midfielders but its hard becouse my team dont have money

Okay, set up the tactic you envisioned, post a screenshot and I'll tell you what I think and what tweaks are potentially needed 

[gofferson]

I want to try something like this. Standard and lower LOE because want to wait for opponents on our half take the ball from them and fast counter with practically all team. a lot of support duties for defence and attack like a unit. I make 2 transfers in winter.

Im scarry about playing with higher defensive line because my defenders are not fast enough to run with opponent strikers.

Tim Albutat who is better option to play on CM than Wojtkowski, and Josip Spoljaric to APC role.

 

[XuluBak]

42 minutes ago, gofferson said:

I want to try something like this. Standard and lower LOE because want to wait for opponents on our half take the ball from them and fast counter with practically all team. a lot of support duties for defence and attack like a unit. I make 2 transfers in winter.

Im scarry about playing with higher defensive line because my defenders are not fast enough to run with opponent strikers.

 

What, if any, PIs do your WM and AM have?

I'd be a bit concerned with only having one "attack" duty, especially with it being a winger. Not sold on PF(s), can you share Sintean?

Albutat looks a better fit for being a B2B than DLP, but if he's your best option, then I'd consider flipping your CMs and putting him as DLP-D. Can you share Basha?

[gofferson]

I don't use PIs for WM and AM. Attack duty on winger because Blaszczykowski is the best player on the team so I want to play him higher on the pitch. I think more support duties are matching to play defense with all team and making fluid counters.

I upload a screen with Marco Kolar stats who is second best striker in the team and Blaszczykowski who is the best player in the team.

Thanks a lot for Your support guys. I appreciate it.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, gofferson said:

Well, this not really a counter-attacking tactic. Except for the lower LOE, which is okay and does make sense 

But the problem is your selection of roles and especially duties. That needs to be changed.

And here is how I would tweak it:

AF/PFat

AMat

IWsu    DLPsu/de    BBM    WMsu

WBsu    CDde  CD/NCBde   FBsu

GK/SK

Because if you want to play counter-attacking football, you need a striker on attack duty in the first place. And he also needs to have some speed. But in order for him not to be isolated, you need at least one more runner from deep also with attack duty. And in this particular formation, the most logical choice is the player in AMC position. 

3 hours ago, gofferson said:

a lot of support duties for defence and attack like a unit

I understand what's your idea here. But even if you want to play a more fluid version of counter-attacking football, you still need more direct penetration up front. However, for a fluid counter style, you need better players, so I would suggest you rather play a simple counter-attacking style. 

Before I tell you more about team instructions, I have to ask - why float crosses? Especially given that your striker is not good in the air. 

[gofferson]

9 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Well, this not really a counter-attacking tactic. Except for the lower LOE, which is okay and does make sense 

But the problem is your selection of roles and especially duties. That needs to be changed.

And here is how I would tweak it:

AF/PFat

AMat

IWsu    DLPsu/de    BBM    WMsu

WBsu    CDde  CD/NCBde   FBsu

GK/SK

Because if you want to play counter-attacking football, you need a striker on attack duty in the first place. And he also needs to have some speed. But in order for him not to be isolated, you need at least one more runner from deep also with attack duty. And in this particular formation, the most logical choice is the player in AMC position. 

I understand what's your idea here. But even if you want to play a more fluid version of counter-attacking football, you still need more direct penetration up front. However, for a fluid counter style, you need better players, so I would suggest you rather play a simple counter-attacking style. 

Before I tell you more about team instructions, I have to ask - why float crosses? Especially given that your striker is not good in the air. 

Thanks for answer. float crosses is missclick and didn't notice this. Low crosses is must with my strikers. I'll tweak my tactic with your sugestions. You're right my players are more suited to simple counter than fluid flash counters like Mourinho's Real Madrid

[szp]

Quote

Thanks for answer. float crosses is missclick and didn't notice this. Low crosses is must with my strikers.

My experience with current ME is that it doesn't matter which option you choose. Your wide players will anyway mostly try float crosses to the far post

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, gofferson said:

Low crosses is must with my strikers

Low or mixed (default). 

Btw, do you want some suggestions/tips on instructions?

[gofferson]

2 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Low or mixed (default). 

Btw, do you want some suggestions/tips on instructions?

I will be grateful for some suggestions about instructions. How to instruct my players to pass the ball behind a defenders or play pass and run, any tips are welcome Thanks  for your time and sugestions. You are more experienced than me and learning from you or from anybody who knows game better than me od very good lesson. 

Edited February 28, 2020 by gofferson

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, gofferson said:

I will be grateful for some suggestions about instructions. How to instruct my players to pass the ball behind a defenders or play pass and run, any tips are welcome

Balanced mentality is a good choice, so stick to it 

When it comes to in-possession instructions, you can start with higher tempo only. Then watch the match and gradually add tweaks such as pass into space and/or hit early crosses. But add these instructions only if really necessary. Do not use them just for the sake of it. Because in some situations they will make sense, but not necessarily every time.

In transition, the Counter logically makes sense for a counter-attacking style, although you don't have to use even this instruction all the time. Because your players will attempt counter-attacks when there is a good opportunity anyway. You can also use the Distribution to CBs and FBs in order to make your attacking build-ups a bit less rushed.

Out of possession - while the lower LOE absolutely makes sense as you want to draw the opposition into your half to create space for the counter, the problem is stay on feet. Because once the opposition are drawn deep enough, you want to engage them more decisively so that you can win the ball and launch a quick counter. So there are basically 2 options you could try (see which one works better for your team):

1. either use the Get stuck in team instruction,

2. or leave the team instruction on default (unselected), but then tell your DLP to tackle harder (player instruction) and your BBM and the striker to close down more.

 

[gofferson]

after couple matches with this tactic i see two problems with counters:

1. My FB almost always kick the ball ahead and don't want play this counter by midfielders.

2. almost always that long ball ended with offside. 

3. a lot of "normal" actions ended with bad cross.

4. even with ACM with attack duty my striker is still isolated.

I don't see in my players a movement to create good chances to pass the ball. They run and loss the ball or kick but not to the target.

Edited February 29, 2020 by gofferson

[Experienced Defender]

3 minutes ago, gofferson said:

after couple matches with this tactic i see two problems with counters:

1. My FB almost always kick the ball ahead and don't want play this counter by midfielders.

2. almost always that long ball ended with offside. 

I don't see in my players a movement to create good chances to pass the ball. They run and loss the ball or kick but not to the target.

Post a screenshot of the tactic.

[gofferson]

Here you are. the passes what im using is shorts passes. I trying to pass into space when the teams trying to dominate us in 2 options:

1. with early crosses but this often end with offside

2. with wide with and work ball into box to expand their line of defense and pass the killer ball but that not ended that way.(usually shot from distance)

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, gofferson said:

Here you are. the passes what im using is shorts passes. I trying to pass into space when the teams trying to dominate us in 2 options:

1. with early crosses but this often end with offside

2. with wide with and work ball into box to expand their line of defense and pass the killer ball but that not ended that way.(usually shot from distance)

I think I found what's the problem with offsides - your striker likes to beat the offside trap (trait), but has poor anticipation and concentration. Here is the link to his profile. 

As for the "work ball into box", I fear that your players are not good enough to execute this instruction. 

2 hours ago, gofferson said:

even with ACM with attack duty my striker is still isolated

Try the striker as PF on attack duty (instead of AF).

[gofferson]

What i changed is player role to PFa and mentality to ofensive more urgent pressing but still with lower LOE and standard defensive line.

What i notice is the striker isn't isolateted more and my team can still wait for opponents on our half but we dont give them open space and dont waiting for their shot but we provoked them for mistake. My defenders after retake ball are looking more for midfielders than kicking the ball anywhere. When i come back to home I'll send some screenshots with statistics and analysis with players positions. But the question is why my players can't rich this fluidity on balanced mentality. It's about width, passes and tempo? Of course individual mentality of players change too but why with lower mentality is harder to achieve direct counters with less risk than on offensive.

[Experienced Defender]

31 minutes ago, gofferson said:

But the question is why my players can't rich this fluidity on balanced mentality

Which "fluidity"? 

[gofferson]

4 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Which "fluidity"? 

On balanced mentality they are more static, they don't show up to passes and usualy this is ended with long ball even not to striker. When i change mentality to ofensive they more show up to passes, and this is still direct football but with more passes and better actions construction.

[gofferson]

Here is example. I played with versus Legia(the best team in the league).

This is tactic what we played:

Avarage positions without ball:

Avarage positions with ball:

In this game we played solid defense(goal from penalty), but what Im notice is BBM is to close to AMC and my striker is still too high but have more contacts with ball.Kolar haven't traits and is similar to Balanyuk and amount of crosses decreased.

[Experienced Defender]

Okay, so it seems you have finally found a tactic that works as you like. Good 

[gofferson]

Its not perfect but is good. Thank you for your time and help you show me my mistakes and what i bad interpretate. 

[gofferson]

Gentlemens. Im forced to ask you for help. Im in my 3 season with Wisla in fm 19 and i have problem with win the game. We are on 8th position(media prediction 4th) and this is table after half of the seasson.

It's time for winter break and its the best time to some changes. Im tried everything changing formation, roles,dutes but nothing work well. I just want to play simple and efective football but my team can't do this.

and my question is how like you set up my team? I think this players are good enough to fight for a title.

 

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, gofferson said:

my question is how like you set up my team?

After a very deep analysis of your players, this is a tactic I would start with. The formation is 4231:

Roles and duties:

PFat

IWsu         AMat         Wsu

CMde   BBM

FBat   CDde  NCBco   FBsu

GK/SK??*

??* You haven't posted a screenshot of your goal-keeper(s), so I cannot tell you which role and duty I would play him in.

Players and player instructions:

DL/FBat - Pietrzak / Romario

DR/FBsu - Timchuk / Palcic - sit narrower

DLC/CDde - Gabriel

DCR/NCBco - Rocha - hold position

MCL/CMde - Basha - dribble less / Ivan - no instructions

MCR/BBM - Ivan - no instructions / Albutat - dribble less / Mioc - no instructions

AML/IWsu - Tillman / Lutovac / Malecki - sit narrower

AMR/Wsu - Lutovac / Malecki

AMC/AMat - Proper / Spoljaric / Zhamaletdinov - roam from position

STC/PFat - Zhamaletdinov / Bonazzoli / Sintean

Team instructions:

Mentality - start with Balanced and occasionally switch to Positive (depending on how the match is developing)

In possession - shorter passing

In transition - nothing

Out of possession - prevent short GK distribution

NOTE: I would also create a secondary tactic using the 4123 wide formation. If you want to know how I would set it up. please let me know.

[gofferson]

How can I Thank you @Experienced Defender ?? I don't have a words to describe how I respect your job on this forum. Just if you want I'll be glad to see your set up of 4123. Im stil trying to learn from your post but its hard to me find perfect roles and duties for my players. Once again thank you for your help.

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, gofferson said:

Just if you want I'll be glad to see your set up of 4123

The 4123 tactic would be built on the same basic principles as the 4231:

Roles and duties:

DLFat

IWsu                                   Wsu

CAR      CMat

DMde

FBat     CDde    NCBco    FBsu

GK/SK??

Team instructions:

Mentality - same as in 4231

In possession - same as in 4231

In transition - same as in 4231

Out of possession - nothing

Players and player instructions:

DM/DMde - Basha / Ivan

MCL/CAR - Ivan / Basha

MCR/CMat - Albutat / Mioc / Ivan (Tillman, Proper, Spoljaric) -  close down more

ST/DLFat - roam from position, close down more

Others - same as in 4231

If you want a counter-attacking version, just add the following instructions:

- higher tempo

- lower LOE and get stuck in

Other possible counter-attacking tweaks include:

- standard passing and/or pass into space and/or early crosses (add them gradually, not all at once)

[gofferson]

Thank you very much. I have a question. Why you chose CM(d) role instead of DLP(d) in 4231?

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, gofferson said:

Why you chose CM(d) role instead of DLP(d) in 4231?

I do not use a DLP in either tactic because I think that none of your central and defensive midfielders is good enough for a playmaker role. Only Ivan might be decent a DLP, but what happens when he cannot play (due to an injury, fatigue, suspension etc.)? 

[gofferson]

39 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

I do not use a DLP in either tactic because I think that none of your central and defensive midfielders is good enough for a playmaker role. Only Ivan might be decent a DLP, but what happens when he cannot play (due to an injury, fatigue, suspension etc.)? 

That's the answer what i want  

[gofferson]

Can I accept that Inwerted Winger can be replaced by Inside Forward role? Because in FM19 it's not IW yet.

[gofferson]

I think my game is broken. He didn't pass to Lincoln but to FB...

[Experienced Defender]

14 hours ago, gofferson said:

Can I accept that Inwerted Winger can be replaced by Inside Forward role? Because in FM19 it's not IW yet.

Yes, of course, I forgot that you are playing FM19.

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, gofferson said:

 

3 hours ago, gofferson said:

I think my game is broken. He didn't pass to Lincoln but to FB

This is really strange. The situation looks perfect for a pass to Lincoln, I really have no idea why Ivan failed to do that 

[gofferson]

They don't want me like Mourinho in United