Possession based players with a relegation side

[Brian]

Hello everyone. I hope you are doing well. 

I just started playing FM again after years of absent. And I want to get into it again and get more in dept at looking at numbers and statistics instead of just the name. Also this will be the first time I will play with my own tactic. Bare with me..  (I still play FM18 btw)

I started unemployed and got accepted at Gillingham in the League One. We are expected to finish 23th which is relegation. One of the reasons the board wants to play a defensive tactic. Which I'm fine with, but almost every player in the team has a PPM of play short simple passes which for me is a indication that they will suit a more possession based tactic more. 

What is the best way to play right now? I think you should look at the players, but I thought that the lower you are expected to finish the more aggressive opponents will play against you. Thats why I thought a more counter based tactic will work. 

 

What are your thoughts on this? 

 

 

 

 

[Zemahh]

6 hours ago, Brian said:

One of the reasons the board wants to play a defensive tactic.

"Defensive football" means your board doesn't want you to concede a lot of goals, regardless of what tactic you use.

6 hours ago, Brian said:

I think you should look at the players, but I thought that the lower you are expected to finish the more aggressive opponents will play against you. Thats why I thought a more counter based tactic will work.

That is correct. However, your tactic isn't really "counter based".

Counter-attacking system is a system in which you defend low, to draw the opposition out, and attack fast, to expose the space left behind. In your tactic however, you're using a top-heavy formation (more suited to attacking football) and two team instructions that will slow your attack down, rather than hit the opposition before they have a chance to regroup.

First thing I would do, is make sure you have players that are actually capable of playing defensive football; defenders and midfielders with good Concentration, Positioning, Marking, Bravery and Tackling. These are a must, if your plan is to sit back and soak up pressure. If not, it's better to choose a more aggressive style from the get-go, where you will at least have a chance to outscore the opposition, instead of sitting back, inevitably conceding and having very few options in attack.

If you have a team that can defend well and have decided on a counter-attacking football, I would pick a bottom-heavy formation (e.g. 4-4-2 or 4-1-4-1).

Perhaps something like this:

• Two banks of four in defence
• Technically gifted defender capable of unlocking defences from deep
• Strong striker either holding the ball up for the onrushing Box to Box midfielder, or laying it off to the Poacher
• Pacey winger providing width

Mentality: Standard

Team Instructions: Lower Line of Engagement, Regroup, Counter, Higher Tempo, Pass Into Space*

Player Instructions: Mark Tighter on both central defenders, Distribute Quickly on goalkeeper

*Remove when protecting lead

Edited March 10, 2020 by Zemahh

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Team Instructions: Lower Line of Engagement, Regroup, Counter, Higher Tempo, Pass Into Space

The problem is that he obviously plays FM18 (given the screenshot of his tactic), so he cannot use instructions such as LOE, regroup and counter (except as the "counter" team mentality), because these TIs have been in the game only since FM19 

[Zemahh]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

The problem is that he obviously plays FM18 (given the screenshot of his tactic), so he cannot use instructions such as LOE, regroup and counter (except as the "counter" team mentality), because these TIs have been in the game only since FM19 

Ah, I remembered goalkeeper distribution was a player instruction, but completely forgot about the whole new set of team instructions and team shape. 

Anyway, you can still create a counter-attacking system. The only thing I would change though, is set mentality to Counter (Structured), to lower the threshold of counter-attack triggers.

I would keep team instructions at the bare minimum, so only Higher Tempo and Pass Into Space (as noted above, use with caution), should be a good starting point. You're essentially already instructing your team exactly how to attack when the opportunity arises with playing on Counter mentality, so you don't really need to do much else apart from making sure you are defensively solid.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Zemahh

[Brian]

15 hours ago, Zemahh said:

That is correct. However, your tactic isn't really "counter based".

That wasn't my intention. Because I have possession based players, I wanted to create a tactic around it. As I wanted to create a tactic with my players strengths. 

The point for me was more that I think that we will get overrun by the majority of teams as we are predicted to get relegated and therefore 90% of the sides we face will have a better team. How do we balance the tactics so we don't get outplayed most of the games? 

[Zemahh]

17 minutes ago, Brian said:

How do we balance the tactics so we don't get outplayed most of the games?

Personally, I tend to shy away from top-heavy formations as an underdog. You will indeed most likely find yourself under extended periods of pressure in most games, so I'd look for a formation that provides more cover.

I'd go for a 4-1-4-1, something like this:

Mentality: Counter

Team Shape: Fluid

Team Instructions: Dribble Less, Shorter Passing, Roam From Position

Player Instructions: Distribute to Centre-Backs on goalkeeper*

*Alternatively choose Play Out Of Defence (depending on how confident you are in your defenders' skills)

Potential Changes:

• Add Work Ball Into Box if you are being too wasteful
• Add Retain Possession for less risk-taking while protecting lead

You could switch the roles and duties around in a number of ways, depending on where you want your main threat to come from, but the main points I'd follow for underdog-possession football are:

• Bottom-heavy formation
• Strong striker capable of holding up ball
• Patient build-up play

[Experienced Defender]

@Brian Please check your inbox, because I sent you an important message in relation to forum rules.

Thanks.

[Brian]

19 hours ago, Zemahh said:

Personally, I tend to shy away from top-heavy formations as an underdog. You will indeed most likely find yourself under extended periods of pressure in most games, so I'd look for a formation that provides more cover.

I'd go for a 4-1-4-1, something like this:

Mentality: Counter

Team Shape: Fluid

Team Instructions: Dribble Less, Shorter Passing, Roam From Position

Player Instructions: Distribute to Centre-Backs on goalkeeper*

*Alternatively choose Play Out Of Defence (depending on how confident you are in your defenders' skills)

Potential Changes:

• Add Work Ball Into Box if you are being too wasteful
• Add Retain Possession for less risk-taking while protecting lead

You could switch the roles and duties around in a number of ways, depending on where you want your main threat to come from, but the main points I'd follow for underdog-possession football are:

• Bottom-heavy formation
• Strong striker capable of holding up ball
• Patient build-up play

Thanks! I'm going to look in to this as I'm going to play tonight. 

[Zardoz]

if you have suitable wingbacks, think also about 5-3-2 and attacks through the middle.

 

The center and the back a good covered by thre midfielders and 5 defenders. In the attack you have 2 forward not far away from another ehcih makes passing easier. I was quite successfull which such a system for an underdog.

 

[Guerin]

On 10/03/2020 at 13:05, Brian said:

play a defensive tactic. Which I'm fine with, but almost every player in the team has a PPM of play short simple passes which for me is a indication that they will suit a more possession based tactic more.

Defensive football suits possession football. You don't need to play like Pep Guardiola to play possession football. But equally, its a myth that you have to play route one football in a defensive setup (at least in FM.) I agree with most that a bottom heavy formation is a good idea for defensive tho.

Roles I'd avoid with defensive mentality are Advanced Forward, Winger, Inverted Winger because they are all very aggressive roles that will just lose the ball without a lot of supporting players around them. Inside fwds generally won't defend that well either. I'd also be suspicious of DLP, AP, Target Man, and Wingbacks. Defensive mentality= slow patient buildup which suits low risk roles.

Edited March 13, 2020 by Guerin

[Brian]

8 hours ago, Guerin said:

Defensive football suits possession football. You don't need to play like Pep Guardiola to play possession football. But equally, its a myth that you have to play route one football in a defensive setup (at least in FM.) I agree with most that a bottom heavy formation is a good idea for defensive tho.

Roles I'd avoid with defensive mentality are Advanced Forward, Winger, Inverted Winger because they are all very aggressive roles that will just lose the ball without a lot of supporting players around them. Inside fwds generally won't defend that well either. I'd also be suspicious of DLP, AP, Target Man, and Wingbacks. Defensive mentality= slow patient buildup which suits low risk roles.

Thanks! 

Yes, most people think of a Pep-type of play with possession football or a boring U-shape.
I'm just a bit cautious when we play possession based my players are not good enough to control play and it will be boring and wasteful. I'm thinking of a 3-back formation (but my best player is a winger) or a simple 4-3-2-1 and work from there. 

[Guerin]

1 hour ago, Brian said:

my players are not good enough to control play and it will be boring and wasteful.

I think that will depend on the types of roles you use. I'd say your team needs to be pretty good to play on the counter. If your team is crap, you may end up just hitting aimless long balls forward in a counter attacking setup or watching endless periods of pressure against your backline. As for "boring and wasteful" you can fit some pretty cool roles into a defensive, possession system. wide playmakers, halfbacks, sweepers, box to box midfielders, deep lying forwards as well as more exotic ones like trequartistas or roaming playmakers. 

Probably I'd focus a lot on being able to play in your own half, so with a sweeper, back three, or a dm. I'd also avoid putting players in the wide AM strata because you might find that the gap between AML and FBL gives the opponent too much room. 

Post your tactical setup!