What is a progressive posession style?

[Guest]

Like the title said, I want to know what is a progressive possesion style, and what is the difference between the progressive vs a normal possesion style.

Also I would like ways to approach it

[Experienced Defender]

Given that I coined the term, I feel obliged to explain it. Actually, it's pretty simple - the style combines elements of classic (patient) possession football with a bit faster attacking styles. So it basically uses possession-oriented football as its basis, but is more concrete and adventurous in the attacking phase. It also looks to dominate and control the play, but is not obsessed with possession for the sake of it. 

6 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

Also I would like ways to approach it

I think the easiest way to help you understand it is to show you one example of a typical patient possession tactic and then one of a progressive possession tactic, so that you could immediate see where the key differences are.

So if this is a patient possession setup of roles and duties:

DLFsu

IFat                                     IWsu

BBM    DLPsu

DMde

WBsu    CDde    CDde    FBat

GK/SKde

Then this can be a progressive possession setup of roles and duties:

F9/TQ

IFat                                     Wsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde  BPDde    IWBsu

SKsu

Let's now go to instructions...

If these are instructions for a patient possession tactic:

Mentality - Balanced (or Positive)

in possession - play out of defence, shorter/much shorter passing and work ball into box

In transition - counter-press, distribute to CBs

Out of possession - higher/much higher DL, higher/much higher LOE, prevent short GKD and offside trap

Then these are instructions for a progressive possession tactic (based on the related above setup of roles and duties):

Mentality - Positive (exclusively)

In possession - play out of defence, shorter passing, be more expressive, work ball into box, overlap left (and sometimes a bit higher tempo can be used as an option)

In transition - nothing (occasional options: counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE and offside trap (only if both CBs are on defend duty)

And the split block via player instructions.

If you have any additional questions, you are welcome 

[AzevedoVCD]

what is split block?

[Experienced Defender]

18 minutes ago, AzevedoVCD said:

what is split block?

When you tell your 3-5 most advanced players to close down more in their player instructions, while leaving the team pressing urgency on default.

[Obaaa]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Given that I coined the term

You coined the term progressive possession? Is this not a philosophy used widely across real-life football?

[Experienced Defender]

9 minutes ago, Obaaa said:

You coined the term progressive possession? Is this not a philosophy used widely across real-life football?

I think I was first to mention it on this forum. 

Is it used in real-life football? It is, but I haven't heard anyone calling it thus. 

Of course, I might be wrong.

[AzevedoVCD]

6 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

 

Then this can be a progressive possession setup of roles and duties:

F9/TQ

IFat                                     Wsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde  BPDde    IWBsu

 

Then these are instructions for a progressive possession tactic (based on the related above setup of roles and duties):

Mentality - Positive (exclusively)

In possession - play out of defence, shorter passing, be more expressive, work ball into box, overlap left (and sometimes a bit higher tempo can be used as an option)

In transition - nothing (occasional options: counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE and offside trap (only if both CBs are on defend duty)

And the split block via player instructions.

If you have any additional questions, you are welcome 

What changes do you recommend in this tactic against stronger teams?

Sorry for invade this post!

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, AzevedoVCD said:

What changes do you recommend in this tactic against stronger teams?

First off, you should not use a tactic like this (progressive possession) if you yourself are not a strong team already. 

Speaking specifically of the tactic above, what I would probably tweak when playing against another strong team is:

- change the AML into IF on support (instead of attack)

- change the striker's duty into attack (the role would depend on the type of the player)

- and tone the split block down a bit (with only the striker and mezzala told to close down more)

Other possible changes (if needed) would be only in-match tweaks (would depend on what I observe watching the match). 

1 hour ago, AzevedoVCD said:

Sorry for invade this post!

It's okay, because you haven't gone off topic. 

[AzevedoVCD]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

First off, you should not use a tactic like this (progressive possession) if you yourself are not a strong team already. 

Speaking specifically of the tactic above, what I would probably tweak when playing against another strong team is:

- change the AML into IF on support (instead of attack)

- change the striker's duty into attack (the role would depend on the type of the player)

- and tone the split block down a bit (with only the striker and mezzala told to close down more)

Other possible changes (if needed) would be only in-match tweaks (would depend on what I observe watching the match). 

I am managing SL Benfica and i am one of the stronger teams on my championship. But i have a young squad and im using this training schedules  - 

sometimes my players miss clear goals chances. i dominate most matches but my players miss too much

 

EDIT: i open a new topic for my last question

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Given that I coined the term, I feel obliged to explain it. Actually, it's pretty simple - the style combines elements of classic (patient) possession football with a bit faster attacking styles. So it basically uses possession-oriented football as its basis, but is more concrete and adventurous in the attacking phase. It also looks to dominate and control the play, but is not obsessed with possession for the sake of it. 

I think the easiest way to help you understand it is to show you one example of a typical patient possession tactic and then one of a progressive possession tactic, so that you could immediate see where the key differences are.

So if this is a patient possession setup of roles and duties:

DLFsu

IFat                                     IWsu

BBM    DLPsu

DMde

WBsu    CDde    CDde    FBat

GK/SKde

Then this can be a progressive possession setup of roles and duties:

F9/TQ

IFat                                     Wsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde  BPDde    IWBsu

SKsu

Let's now go to instructions...

If these are instructions for a patient possession tactic:

Mentality - Balanced (or Positive)

in possession - play out of defence, shorter/much shorter passing and work ball into box

In transition - counter-press, distribute to CBs

Out of possession - higher/much higher DL, higher/much higher LOE, prevent short GKD and offside trap

Then these are instructions for a progressive possession tactic (based on the related above setup of roles and duties):

Mentality - Positive (exclusively)

In possession - play out of defence, shorter passing, be more expressive, work ball into box, overlap left (and sometimes a bit higher tempo can be used as an option)

In transition - nothing (occasional options: counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE and offside trap (only if both CBs are on defend duty)

And the split block via player instructions.

If you have any additional questions, you are welcome 

Thank you @Experienced Defender for the reply, I think I have been playing a progressive possesion without knowing what it was.

Another question when you play a progressive possesion tactic you always look to finish the chance with a cross? because that is what is happening on my matches, all my chances end up with a pass to the flank, a cross and most of the times end with a corner, thats not what I am looking for, even that I am playing with a IF on the left and a IW on the right I dont see any through ball by my playmakers, my main assistant are my WB.

[Experienced Defender]

7 hours ago, Vinay17 said:

Another question when you play a progressive possesion tactic you always look to finish the chance with a cross?

No. Crosses will normally happen, but they are not directly tied to progressive possession football. How a certain tactic will play out also depends on characteristics of players playing it as well as the opposition manner of defending. 

[Cuomo10]

21 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

I think I was first to mention it on this forum. 

Is it used in real-life football? It is, but I haven't heard anyone calling it thus. 

Of course, I might be wrong.

Wow, lol. You're joking, right? 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Cuomo10 said:

Wow, lol. You're joking, right? 

Okay, I am joking. So let's now stop derailing the thread, because what the OP asked about has nothing to with this trivial mind game. Otherwise I'll have to start removing this kind of irrelevant comments, including mine own.

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

No. Crosses will normally happen, but they are not directly tied to progressive possession football. How a certain tactic will play out also depends on characteristics of players playing it as well as the opposition manner of defending. 

Let me show you with some examples what I am trying to do and the football I want

1st Image:

Clearly my DM (playing as a HB) has the ball but he have no intention to play the pass that I am pointing, instead he will move the ball to the other flank o play again with number 8.

2nd Image:

In the second example I am expecting my MEZZat (32) to play a one-two with my F9su (99), even that both have one-two traits. But that didnt happen

Maybe are my TI or my PI but I dont really see this plays on the ME, thats why I am asking how to achieve because maybe I am doing something wrong and I dont know how to create this chances.

 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Vinay17 said:

Let me show you with some examples what I am trying to do and the football I want

1st Image:

Clearly my DM (playing as a HB) has the ball but he have no intention to play the pass that I am pointing, instead he will move the ball to the other flank o play again with number 8.

2nd Image:

In the second example I am expecting my MEZZat (32) to play a one-two with my F9su (99), even that both have one-two traits. But that didnt happen

Maybe are my TI or my PI but I dont really see this plays on the ME, thats why I am asking how to achieve because maybe I am doing something wrong and I dont know how to create this chances.

I don't know what I am supposed to answer on that. Players do not necessarily do what you expect from them in any given situation. In real-life football, a manager can shout to a player "pass the ball to this or that teammate", but in FM such kind of micro-management is unfortunately not possible. Maybe your player has poor or insufficient vision, or decisions, or anticipation... maybe his passing is not good enough, so he opted for a safer option. I don't know, just guessing.

You initially asked what is a progressive possession style, and I explained. I did not see your tactic, nor do I know your players. And on top of that, I did not say that you should play progressive possession with a team like Bologna. Maybe they are good enough to play such a style, but I cannot know that.

By the way, I see that you had a good result in both matches from the screenshots - 1-0 against Athletic and 3-0 against Cagliari.

[3LionsFM]

On 23/03/2020 at 11:26, Experienced Defender said:

Then these are instructions for a progressive possession tactic (based on the related above setup of roles and duties):

Mentality - Positive (exclusively)

In possession - play out of defence, shorter passing, be more expressive, work ball into box, overlap left (and sometimes a bit higher tempo can be used as an option)

In transition - nothing (occasional options: counter and/or counter-press)

Out of possession - higher DL, standard LOE and offside trap (only if both CBs are on defend duty)

And the split block via player instructions.

If you have any additional questions, you are welcome 

Hi @Experienced Defender.

How would you look to utilise 2 IWB's?

Here's my current setup.

W(s) DLF(a) W(s)

DLP(s) MEZ(a)

HB(d)

IWB(s) CD(d) BPD(d) IWB(s)

SK(s)

I'm using your suggested tactical instructions for the progressive possession. 

My idea is for the wingers to stay wide while the wing backs cut inside. 

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, 3LionsFM said:

Hi @Experienced Defender.

How would you look to utilise 2 IWB's?

Here's my current setup.

W(s) DLF(a) W(s)

DLP(s) MEZ(a)

HB(d)

IWB(s) CD(d) BPD(d) IWB(s)

SK(s)

I'm using your suggested tactical instructions for the progressive possession. 

My idea is for the wingers to stay wide while the wing backs cut inside. 

The problem is, if you want to play progressive possession - or any style of football, for that matter - you cannot just copy-paste the instructions. You also need to set up roles and duties properly and suitably for that particular style. And last but not least - to have suitable players.

Anyway, if you want more specific advice on your tactic, please start a separate thread. You can also tag me in that new thread if you want to hear from me personally (although I regularly visit all threads in which people ask for tactical help).