[Suggestion] Altitude/elevation in-game effects

[felipe_bonfim]

Altitude is a key factor in South American football and, as such, an important part of the football experience for South American fans. Therefore, FM South American players would love to see this feature in the game, with realistic effects.

 

I've seen a lot of people request realistic altitude effects in the game, but I haven't seen anyone coming up with a solution, so I thought I should come here and make my contribution. Here is what I suggest:

 

When a team is based in a city with elevation up to 1,500m, these should be the effects on its players when playing an away game at higher altitudes:

Spoiler

ELEVATION AT AWAY GAME - PLAYER STAMINA

0 to 2,100m - 0 effect

2,101m to 2,200m - stamina decreases 2.5% faster

2,201m to 2,300m - stamina decreases 5% faster

2,301m to 2,400m - stamina decreases 7.5% faster

2,401m to 2,500m - stamina decreases 10% faster

2,501m to 2,600m - stamina decreases 12.5% faster

2,601m to 2,700m - stamina decreases 15% faster

2,701m to 2,800m - stamina decreases 17.5% faster

2,801m to 2,900m - stamina decreases 20% faster

2,901m to 3,000m - stamina decreases 22.5% faster

3,001m to 3,100m - stamina decreases 25% faster

3,101m to 3,200m - stamina decreases 27.5% faster

3,201m to 3,300m - stamina decreases 30% faster

3,301m to 3,400m - stamina decreases 32.5% faster

3,401m to 3,500m - stamina decreases 35% faster

3,501m to 3,600m - stamina decreases 37.5% faster (players should be exhausted no later than the 70th minute, especially when the game plan involves more running and less passing)

3,601m to 3,700m - stamina decreases 40% faster

3,701m to 3,800m - stamina decreases 42.5% faster

3,801m to 3,900m - stamina decreases 45% faster

3,901m to 4,000m - stamina decreases 47.5% faster

4,001m to 4,100m - stamina decreases 50% faster

4,101m to 4,200m - stamina decreases 52.5% faster

4,201m to 4,300m - stamina decreases 55% faster

4,301m to 4,400m - stamina decreases 57.5% faster

4,401m to 4,500m - stamina decreases 60% faster

 

When a team is based in a city with elevation from 1,501m up to 2,000m, these should be the effects on its players when playing an away game at higher altitudes:

Spoiler

ELEVATION AT AWAY GAME - PLAYER STAMINA

0 to 2,500m - 0 effect

2,501m to 2,600m - stamina decreases 2.5% faster

2,601m to 2,700m - stamina decreases 5% faster

2,701m to 2,800m - stamina decreases 7.5% faster

2,801m to 2,900m - stamina decreases 10% faster

2,901m to 3,000m - stamina decreases 12.5% faster

3,001m to 3,100m - stamina decreases 15% faster

3,101m to 3,200m - stamina decreases 17.5% faster

3,201m to 3,300m - stamina decreases 20% faster

3,301m to 3,400m - stamina decreases 22.5% faster

3,401m to 3,500m - stamina decreases 25% faster

3,501m to 3,600m - stamina decreases 27.5% faster

3,601m to 3,700m - stamina decreases 30% faster

3,701m to 3,800m - stamina decreases 32.5% faster

3,801m to 3,900m - stamina decreases 35% faster

3,901m to 4,000m - stamina decreases 37.5% faster

4,001m to 4,100m - stamina decreases 40% faster

4,101m to 4,200m - stamina decreases 42.5% faster

4,201m to 4,300m - stamina decreases 45% faster

4,301m to 4,400m - stamina decreases 47.5% faster

4,401m to 4,500m - stamina decreases 50% faster

 

When a team is based in a city with elevation from 2,101m up to 2,500m, these should be the effects on its players when playing an away game at higher altitudes:

Spoiler

ELEVATION AT AWAY GAME - PLAYER STAMINA

0 to 3,000m - 0 effect

3,001m to 3,100m - stamina decreases 2.5% faster

3,101m to 3,200m - stamina decreases 5% faster

3,201m to 3,300m - stamina decreases 7.5% faster

3,301m to 3,400m - stamina decreases 10% faster

3,401m to 3,500m - stamina decreases 12.5% faster

3,501m to 3,600m - stamina decreases 15% faster

3,601m to 3,700m - stamina decreases 17.5% faster

3,701m to 3,800m - stamina decreases 20% faster

3,801m to 3,900m - stamina decreases 22.5% faster

3,901m to 4,000m - stamina decreases 25% faster

4,001m to 4,100m - stamina decreases 27.5% faster

4,101m to 4,200m - stamina decreases 30% faster

4,201m to 4,300m - stamina decreases 32.5% faster

4,301m to 4,400m - stamina decreases 35% faster

4,401m to 4,500m - stamina decreases 37.5% faster

 

When a team is based in a city with elevation from 2,501m up to 3,000m, these should be the effects on its players when playing an away game at higher altitudes:

Spoiler

ELEVATION AT AWAY GAME - PLAYER STAMINA

0 to 3,500m - 0 effect

3,501m to 3,600m - stamina decreases 2.5% faster

3,601m to 3,700m - stamina decreases 5% faster

3,701m to 3,800m - stamina decreases 7.5% faster

3,801m to 3,900m - stamina decreases 10% faster

3,901m to 4,000m - stamina decreases 12.5% faster

4,001m to 4,100m - stamina decreases 15% faster

4,101m to 4,200m - stamina decreases 17.5% faster

4,201m to 4,300m - stamina decreases 20% faster

4,301m to 4,400m - stamina decreases 22.5% faster

4,401m to 4,500m - stamina decreases 25% faster

 

When a team is based in a city with elevation from 3,501m, these should be the effects on its players when playing an away game at higher altitudes:

Spoiler

ELEVATION AT AWAY GAME - PLAYER STAMINA

0 to 4,000m - 0 effect

4,001m to 4,100m - stamina decreases 2.5% faster

4,101m to 4,200m - stamina decreases 5% faster

4,201m to 4,300m - stamina decreases 7.5% faster

4,301m to 4,400m - stamina decreases 10% faster

4,401m to 4,500m - stamina decreases 12.5% faster

 

It's no wonder that teams from Argentina or Brazil lose away games to semi-amateur teams from Bolivia, only to humiliate them when playing home matches. During the 2017 Libertadores quarterfinals, I don't think any South American was surprised to see River Plate fall to Jorge Wilstermann 0:3 away, and then qualify winning 8:0 home. Mexicans and (maybe to a lesser extent) Americans know how important this is. If you enjoy South American football, you understand this.

 

Nacional Potosí often qualify for South American competitions, and Potosí stands at 4,000m. Their team is usually poorly skilled, but it's always hard to play there.

 

(As a Brazilian customer, unfortunately I can't buy FM's recent editions legally - I totally support SI's decision not to sell in Brazil, knowing why it was made. Sorry if this is already worked out, but I have no access to the game's latest installments.)

Edited March 28, 2020 by felipe_bonfim
Compliance with title requirements

[felipe_bonfim]

A couple more things:

 

1. As altitude is such a big deal, the press should ask questions along that line (how to overcome it, its influence on performance/result, etc) before and after the game - they always do in Brazil and Argentina.

 

2. Local teams try to take advantage of altitude by:

- Trying to keep the game at a fast pace, as opponents have trouble breathing and get tired faster;

- Taking more shots from distance, as the air resistance is lower (the ball travels faster) and the goalkeeper's reflexes are slower;

- Crossing more often, as reaction and impulse of defenders tend to decrease as they get exhausted.

[right_winger]

I never play South American leagues but it totally makes sense.

And hats off @felipe_bonfim, you've done great work and calculations on different scenarios, looks like SI have a ready-made feature. If it appears in the game then I'll make myself a promise to arrange a friendly in Bolivia or maybe even start a save where this aspect plays a part  

[felipe_bonfim]

I forgot to mention that some players don't travel to away games at altitude. When a player's resistance index is low, the staff advise the manager of how many play minutes the player may endure in altitude, and often managers simply choose not to take a player to the game because of that. 

 

2 hours ago, right_winger said:

I never play South American leagues but it totally makes sense.

And hats off @felipe_bonfim, you've done great work and calculations on different scenarios, looks like SI have a ready-made feature. If it appears in the game then I'll make myself a promise to arrange a friendly in Bolivia or maybe even start a save where this aspect plays a part  

 

Thanks a lot! Then I promise to make a list of local teams from Bolivia and Peru where you could play the toughest friendlies

[Señor Dan]

I totally agree with the proposal. I am from Uruguay and it is real, it is very difficult for us to play in places like La Paz (Bolivia) and face teams which in other places are very bad but at home they become very difficult because our players have a hard time breathing normally .

[bpecanha]

I don't understand why this isn't included in the game yet. Playing in places like Bolivia and some other cities from neighbour countries is a nightmare. I remember my team (Vasco da Gama) struggling to advance against bolivian side Jorge Wilstermann in 2018, despite having won the 1st leg at home by 4-0.

We lost 4-0 in Bolivia with four goals scored after crosses (something that is very lethal at such heights, because the ball gains speed. Long shots are also very threatening) and only qualified after penalties. As an recent example, São Paulo lost 2-1 away from home in the opening round of the 2020 Copa Libertadores, against much weaker side Binacional from Peru. But they play in Juliaca, a city with 4000m of altitude. In their next game, Binacional lost 8-0 against River Plate in Argentina.

Just to provide an example and complement the info provided, I've searched the combined record of Bolivian clubs at Copa Libertadores since 2016. The only two matches excluded were between Jorge Wilstermann and Oriente Petrolero in 2018, as both clubs are from Bolivia.

PS: Oriente Petrolero and Sport Boys play in Santa Cruz de la Sierra, a city who is almost at sea level (only 400m of altitude, who doesn't impact players).

Bolivian teams record at home (2016-2020): W22 D11 L9 (61,1%).

Spoiler

Oriente Petrolero 1-3 Santa Fe (2016)***
The Strongest 2-1 Trujillanos (2016)
The Strongest 1-1 River Plate (2016)
The Strongest 1-1 São Paulo (2016)
Bolívar 5-0 Deportivo Cali (2016)
Bolívar 1-1 Boca Juniors (2016)
Bolívar 1-1 Racing (2016)
=
Universitario Sucre 3-2 Wanderers (2017)
The Strongest 4-0 Wanderers (2017)
The Strongest 5-0 Unión Española (2017)
The Strongest 2-0 Santa Fe (2017)
The Strongest 5-1 Sporting Cristal (2017)
The Strongest 1-1 Santos (2017)
Jorge Wilstermann 6-2 Peñarol (2017)
Jorge Wilstermann 2-1 Tucumán (2017)
Jorge Wilstermann 3-2 Palmeiras (2017)
Sport Boys 3-3 Libertad (2017)***
Sport Boys 1-3 Godoy Cruz (2017)***
Sport Boys 1-5 Atl. Mineiro (2017)***
The Strongest 1-1 Lanús (2017)
Jorge Wilstermann 1-0 Atl. Mineiro (2017)
Jorge Wilstermann 3-0 River Plate (2017)
=
Oriente Petrolero 2-0 Universitario (2018)***
Jorge Wilstermann 4-0 Vasco da Gama (2018)
Bolívar 1-1 Colo-Colo (2018)
Bolívar 1-0 Atlético Nacional (2018)
Bolívar 2-1 Delfín (2018)
The Strongest 1-0 Peñarol (2018)
The Strongest 1-2 Tucumán (2018)
The Strongest 1-3 Libertad (2018)
=
Bolívar 2-4 Defensor (2019)
The Strongest 1-1 Libertad (2019)
San José 0-1 Flamengo (2019)
San José 3-3 LDU Quito (2019)
San José 3-1 Peñarol (2019)
Jorge Wilstermann 0-0 Boca Juniors (2019)
Jorge Wilstermann 3-2 Atl. Paranaense (2019)
Jorge Wilstermann 0-2 Tolima (2019)
=
San José 0-1 Guaraní (2020)
The Strongest 2-0 Tucumán (2020)
Bolívar 2-0 Tigre (2020)
Jorge Wilstermann 2-0 Colo-Colo (2020)

Bolivian teams record away (2016-2020): W3 D8 L31 (13,4%).

Spoiler

Santa Fe 3-0 Oriente Petrolero (2016)***
São Paulo 0-1 The Strongest (2016)
River Plate 6-0 The Strongest (2016)
Trujillanos 2-1 The Strongest (2016)
Racing 4-1 Bolívar (2016)
Boca Juniors 3-1 Bolívar (2016)
Deportivo Cali 1-1 Bolívar (2016)
=
Wanderers 5-2 Universitario Sucre (2017)
Wanderers 0-2 The Strongest (2017)
Unión Española 1-1 The Strongest (2017)
Santos 2-0 The Strongest (2017)
Sporting Cristal 0-0 The Strongest (2017)
Santa Fe 1-1 The Strongest (2017)
Palmeiras 1-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2017)
Tucumán 2-1 Jorge Wilstermann (2017)
Peñarol 2-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2017)
Atl. Mineiro 5-2 Sport Boys (2017)***
Godoy Cruz 2-0 Sport Boys (2017)***
Libertad 1-1 Sport Boys (2017)***
Lanús 1-0 The Strongest (2017)
Atl. Mineiro 0-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2017)
River Plate 8-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2017)
=
Universitario 3-1 Oriente Petrolero (2018)***
Vasco da Gama 4-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2018)
Delfín 1-1 Bolívar (2018)
Atlético Nacional 4-1 Bolívar (2018)
Colo-Colo 2-0 Bolívar (2018)
Libertad 3-0 The Strongest (2018)
Tucumán 3-0 The Strongest (2018)
Peñarol 2-0 The Strongest (2018)
=
Defensor 2-3 Bolívar (2019)
Libertad 5-1 The Strongest (2019)
Peñarol 4-0 San José (2019)
Flamengo 6-1 San José (2019)
LDU Quito 4-0 San José (2019)
Atl. Paranaense 4-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2019)
Tolima 2-2 Jorge Wilstermann (2019)
Boca Juniors 4-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2019)
=
Guaraní 4-0 San José (2020)
Tucumán 2-0 The Strongest (2020)
Guaraní 2-0 Bolívar (2020)
Peñarol 1-0 Jorge Wilstermann (2020)

Of course you would expect to see clubs winning more at home, but only 3 good results in 42 matches is something really extreme. It shows the lack of technique of bolivian sides and also the effect of altitude, even when facing South American powerhouses.

[Kyle Brown]

Reviewed so locked.