4312 help

[Juninho25]

Hi guys

 

I’ve been desperately trying to get a 4312 formation working as I love the football it plays in real life and I can get all my favourite roles in the formation (attacking full backs, mezzalas and an attacking midfielder).

 

Howerver, no matter what I try I cannot get a consistent performance out of my team and good results.

I’m Middlesbrough, season 3, and have a squad that I think is at least good enough for top 10. However I am consistently hanging around the relegation zone and when I do win, I  scrape results and often don’t deserve it.

 

I look to wait for opponents to come out a bit before pressing and hitting them on the break with the attacking trio and marauding full backs. 
 

I have also tried variation on the flanks  (carrilero/ wing back attack on one....full back support / Mezzala attack on the other with no luck)
 

I don’t know how to do screenshots, so will type info below:

 

                              GK D

 

WB A           CD D         CD D        WBA

 

        MEZ S         DLP D      MEZ S

 

                             AM S

               
                    AF A         DLF S

 

short passing

pass in to space 

low crosses 

play through middle 

high tempo

low line engagement 

standard line of defence 

standard closing down
 

First eleven:

Vandevoort 

Guga

Franco

Gvardiol

Bjorkan

Pineda 

Gustavo Assuncao

Sambi Lokonga

Almada

Kaio Jorge

Macias

 

Does anybody have any advice on how to get this working? Improve performance and results? I am very keen to keep this shape but do not know how to change roles and instructions. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. 

[Experienced Defender]

3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

 GK D

 

WB A           CD D         CD D        WBA

 

        MEZ S         DLP D      MEZ S

 

                             AM S

               
                    AF A         DLF S

 

short passing

pass in to space 

low crosses 

play through middle 

high tempo

low line engagement 

standard line of defence 

standard closing down

 

3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

Does anybody have any advice on how to get this working? Improve performance and results?

I don't know your players to be able to tell you how exactly you should set the tactic up - and I also don't know if the 4312 as a system suits your team anyway - but what I immediately noticed is:

1. the setup of roles and duties is very unbalanced (which means not just great defensive risk but also issues attacking-wise)

2. it's also too one-dimensional (both fullbacks and both outer CMs have identical respective roles and duties)

Btw, you omitted the team mentality from the description of your tactic. 

[Fflow]

Rather low defensife line, high tempo and pass into space, you might start by adding "counter" to your team instructions. What mentality is your team in ?

About players roles and duties:

If you don't want your DLP in a deeper position (from where he could drop between your CB if you get counter attacked, but i'm not sure a DLP will do that anyway), you'll need to balance your defense a bit with a support duty on one wing or the other.

3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

I have also tried variation on the flanks  (carrilero/ wing back attack on one....full back support / Mezzala attack on the other with no luck)

Something along those lines should work, maybe try a WB/S instead of the FB/S (the FB is too limited to be used as a lone wide player). If you want to keep a FB, use him on the wing with the CAR and give him an attack duty, it should do the trick

You can keep a MEZ/S instead of your CAR if you like but I'd try a BBM. I've always had better results not using both my wide CM as mezzalas or carrileros

And then there's your AMC. An AM/S will tend to stay in his area, easy for opponents to mark but opening channels for other players to play into. If you want to strengthen that effect, try an EG.

If, however, you want your AMC to have more room to develop his game, you'll have to give him more freedom. A trequarista will definitly do the trick but you'll have to take into account the fact that he is only available with an attack duty. Also, a trequarista is always useful when playing in 4-3-1-2 or 4-4-2 diamond because it roams into wide positions to get the ball and find passing lines. It's a good way to get width in a narrow formation

 

So maybe something like this:

Not quite sure on which wing you should use your WB/A, though. Not on the same side as the AF, for sure, I don't know if it's better suited to play with a MEZ or a BBM

3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

I don’t know how to do screenshots, so will type info below:

1- preference -> interface mode: windowed

2- use any screenshot software (the default one on windows is good enough)

Edited April 1, 2020 by Fflow

[Juninho25]

Well, I have played varieties of this system for 3 seasons and bought players specifically for the roles  so I know I have the players for it. Therefore it must be my tactical ineptitude....

 

I play on balanced mentality but adjust depending on opponent.

 

i have tried variety in roles before but never had success.

 

Do you have suggestions for a more balanced set up of roles and duties?

 

 

[Juninho25]

Ooh, just seen your reply too Fflow. 
 

Will look in to some of these role suggestions and keep tinkering. 
 

I thought about using a box-to-box and a MEZ but thought this may make me too narrow on one side.

 

Have also used a TREQ in the AM role before with no success! Perhaps it was due to the imbalance elsewhere that it did not work. 
 

I shall have a tinker.

 

Have others made similar shapes work on FM20 or al I fighting a losing FB battle?

 

Thanks both for your replies.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Juninho25

[Experienced Defender]

19 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:

I play on balanced mentality but adjust depending on opponent

If you adjust by only changing the mentality, then that can be a problem. Because when you change the team mentality, you automatically change all other instructions. 

 

21 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:

Do you have suggestions for a more balanced set up of roles and duties?

Yes. But an optimal setup depends on the style of play you want to achieve.

 

3 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

I look to wait for opponents to come out a bit before pressing and hitting them on the break with the attacking trio and marauding full backs

Sounds like some sort of counter-attacking football. More fluid or direct? Note that for more fluid counter style you need better players, because it's more demanding both technically and tactically (mentally). 

[Fflow]

3 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:

I thought about using a box-to-box and a MEZ but thought this may make me too narrow on one side.

Well, these narrow formations are naturally a bit unbalanced anyway (but so are most formations), you just have to work with it. If you're gonna ask everyone to run wide to compensate for the lack of wingers then you might as well use wingers

22 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:

Have also used a TREQ in the AM role before with no success! Perhaps it was due to the imbalance elsewhere that it did not work.

If you didn't take into account the fact that you swapped a support duty for an attack duty, then you're probably right

18 minutes ago, Juninho25 said:

Have others made similar shapes work on FM20 or al I fighting a losing FB battle?

I've taken up Lyon to the 2020 Champion's league final mostly using a diamond formation so I'd say it's possible

I used the same kind of front 3 (a F9 instead of the DLF and I quickly swapped my AM for an EG), and an AP/S as my "narrow" CM and a HB to allow my wing backs to push higher

[FKPartizan]

It's impossible and it's easy to tell why, the three CMs always stay on one side and opponent can unlock easy 1v1 or 2v1 overload with one diagonal ball. In real life teams that attack with diamond or 4-3-1-2 whatever you want to call it always can go to 4-4-2, 4-1-4-1 when defending their box easy without giving massive space on wings.

[Experienced Defender]

@FKPartizan @Fflow I removed your last few comments because you started going off topic. Keep to the topic please. This thread is not about discussion about exploit tactics or anything like that.

[Britrock]

8 hours ago, Juninho25 said:

I don’t know how to do screenshots, so will type info below

Alt+s on Windows, then look in documents > sports interactive > football manager 2020 > screenshots (or something along those lines if that isn't exact). Then open the image and copy/paste it into a post. 

[Experienced Defender]

8 hours ago, enis55 said:

i need help fellas.

 

i believe that team should play like those role and duties but something wrong i cant success well. 

i want possesion game?

Mate, you'll have to start your own separate thread if you want to get help and advice on your tactic, because this thread belongs to another user.

I have to remove your post from this thread, sorry.

Thank you.