good striker playing AML

[Fflow]

Hi everyone !

I'm trying to set up a 4-3-3 but I've got a striker whom I thought would leave this summer and he is exactly what you don't want your striker to look like in a 4-3-3:

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I've been trying out different ways to play with Dembélé but none of them seems to be working very well. As he is (by far) my main goal scoring threat, I can't really use him as a support player. I've tried CF/Abut having a striker with an attack duty in 4-3-3 is problematic, so I had to try something else. The main idea I've been working on is something like this (Dembélé being #9):
 

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what my players are currently doing right what they're doing wrong what I'd like them to do instead

Counter attack and high intense counter-press

Translated into FM:

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+ special instructions to my RB so I can get crosses to Dembélé:

(clashes with the "low crosses" team instruction but he's clever enough to know he has to lift the ball if he wants it to reach the far post from a deep position)

So basically, try to focus play on the right flank (my BBM and my RB have good ball playing abilities) while keeping an eye for openings on the left one. If there are no openings and they can't go through the right side, the RB can go for a cross from a deeper position aiming at Dembélé. The Mezzala is there to help with the lack of ball playing abilities on my left flank, so it's another player able to make short passes into the box.

The first issue I have is that Dembélé doesn't really find himself in scoring positions. He often gets the ball either too far from the goals or at an acute angle that forces him to use his left foot, usually to cross (and when he tries a header..). Same thing for my LB, I'd like him to make deeper runs without the ball and be able to try low, backwards crosses to Dembélé (or someone else).

The other issue I have is that I don't want to ask them to work the ball into the box because A- it slows down pace and B- I still want to hit some early crosses and I have several good long distance shooters who can be useful (especially since I don't have much close range finishers). But I'd still like to have shoots from inside the box

Spoiler

All my shoots from the first half time of last match (against a weaker side)

Ane here's the 2nd half time, with "work ball into the box" on:

Bad luck, the only time a cross could have found Dembélé in a good scoring position, Da Silva got on the ball before him (shoot from #21)

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by Fflow

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Fflow said:

All I can say at this point is that your tactic looks pretty messy. Roles and duties are fairly unbalanced and instructions do not help either, because they contradict the setup of roles and duties (which - as I already said - is also  problematic by itself). I think that's a bigger problem than a striker (Dembele) playing as an IF. So you first need to make the tactic more sensible, before dealing with Dembele himself. 

[Fflow]

22 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Roles and duties are fairly unbalanced

which part ?

23 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

instructions do not help either, because they contradict the setup of roles and duties (which - as I already said - is also  problematic by itself)

Thing is, I have no idea how to match instructions and my setup. I generally use instruction that fit my players (play out from defense for example because I have good ball playing defenders, or low crosses because all my other forwards are small and quick) and don't contradict each other (high line of engagement and low defensife line for example) but beyond that...

I've been looking (on this forum and elsewhere) for some kind of team instructions guide but I didn't really learn anything new

[Experienced Defender]

15 hours ago, Fflow said:

which part ?

Defense-wise, neither flank looks sufficiently protected, with both wide forwards on attack duties, both fairly attack-minded fullbacks and no holding/covering CM role. Of course, it will probably be less of a problem if you manage a very strong (top) team, because the players might be good enough overall to mitigate the risk by means of their sheer quality, but you still need to be careful anyway.

Attacking-wise - and I guess this part concerns you more than the defensive aspect - you have a number of roles in advanced areas that are either highly mobile or highly creative or both at the same time, and on top of that looking to operate in and attack essentially similar (close) areas of the final third (especially problematic in this particular respect is having both the mezzala on attack duties on the same side). 

15 hours ago, Fflow said:

Thing is, I have no idea how to match instructions and my setup

Do you at least have an idea of what style of football you'd like to play (patient possession, progressive possession, simple counter, fluid counter, fast attack, methodical attack etc.)?

[Justified]

I don't think playing a striker on an attacking role is "impossible". But obviously you need to make sure there is space for him to run into. If you can create a sit-soak-hit system you could easily have him in an attacking role. With the current instructions you're far from that though. If you have a default D-Line and engage lower you let the other team out of their shape and thus create space for Dembele. You'd need to add a bit of tempo though otherwise they just get back in shape and you've got no space.

[Fflow]

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Defense-wise, neither flank looks sufficiently protected, with both wide forwards on attack duties, both fairly attack-minded fullbacks and no holding/covering CM role. Of course, it will probably be less of a problem if you manage a very strong (top) team, because the players might be good enough overall to mitigate the risk by means of their sheer quality, but you still need to be careful anyway.

Ok thanks. So I coult start with a CAR instead of my BBM cor example ?

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Attacking-wise - and I guess this part concerns you more than the defensive aspect

Yes but I've lost too many matches against direct competitors not to care

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

you have a number of roles in advanced areas that are either highly mobile or highly creative or both at the same time, and on top of that looking to operate in and attack essentially similar (close) areas of the final third (especially problematic in this particular respect is having both the mezzala on attack duties on the same side)

I've tried swiching my mezzala and my left back's duties, I won that game 3-0 but with 29 shots to 3 it's a bare minimum (ah and Dembélé played RMD, he found himself in a lot more scoring positions but didn't score and got a 6.0 rating, + I guess this won't help with my defensive problems on the left flank)

1 hour ago, Experienced Defender said:

Do you at least have an idea of what style of football you'd like to play (patient possession, progressive possession, simple counter, fluid counter, fast attack, methodical attack etc.)?

I've got a pretty good idea, yes, even though I don't know how you'd call it: high pressing, counter if possible but if there's no counter option, try to work it into the box. I found that the game description of the attacking mentality describes quite well the kind of football I want to play

58 minutes ago, Justified said:

I don't think playing a striker on an attacking role is "impossible". But obviously you need to make sure there is space for him to run into. If you can create a sit-soak-hit system you could easily have him in an attacking role. With the current instructions you're far from that though. If you have a default D-Line and engage lower you let the other team out of their shape and thus create space for Dembele. You'd need to add a bit of tempo though otherwise they just get back in shape and you've got no space.

Thanks, I see what you mean but with a striker on attacking role, it's more the space behind him that worries me than the space in front of him

And it's hard to play a pure counter based style with a top team in Ligue 1 because you will play most matches against teams that just want a 0-0

[Experienced Defender]

10 minutes ago, Fflow said:

So I coult start with a CAR instead of my BBM cor example ?

Yes, in this particular tactic it's a better (more sensible) option. Or BWM on support duty can also be a good choice (depending on the player). With a carrilero (or BWM) in MCR, you may even consider the overlap right instruction as an option occasionally. 

 

13 minutes ago, Fflow said:

Yes but I've lost too many matches against direct competitors not to care

Then that's all the more reason to aim for better tactical balance. 

 

15 minutes ago, Fflow said:

I've tried swiching my mezzala and my left back's duties, I won that game 3-0 but with 29 shots to 3 it's a bare minimum (ah and Dembélé played RMD, he found himself in a lot more scoring positions but didn't score and got a 6.0 rating, + I guess this won't help with my defensive problems on the left flank)

You guess right. Such a setup can only further aggravate the defensive risk on the left flank (WB on attack, AML on attack and mezzala on support). Instead, a lot better combination would be WB and AML (IF) on support and only the mezzala on attack. In that case, I would also consider the striker on attack duty, but in a simpler and more direct role (not CF). 

 

19 minutes ago, Fflow said:

I've got a pretty good idea, yes, even though I don't know how you'd call it: high pressing, counter if possible but if there's no counter option, try to work it into the box

Sounds like some hybrid between progressive possession and fast attack. 

 

20 minutes ago, Fflow said:

I found that the game description of the attacking mentality describes quite well the kind of football I want to play

Mentality and style of play are not the same thing, so these descriptions can be misleading if you take them literally. 

[Fflow]

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes, in this particular tactic it's a better (more sensible) option. Or BWM on support duty can also be a good choice (depending on the player). With a carrilero (or BWM) in MCR, you may even consider the overlap right instruction as an option occasionally.

Ok I'll try that

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

a lot better combination would be WB and AML (IF) on support and only the mezzala on attack. In that case, I would also consider the striker on attack duty, but in a simpler and more direct role (not CF).

AF ? That would solve a lot of my problems

3 hours ago, Experienced Defender said:

Mentality and style of play are not the same thing, so these descriptions can be misleading if you take them literally. 

I know that's why I add probably too much team instructions

[Experienced Defender]

31 minutes ago, Fflow said:

AF ?

No. In a system like yours, AF usually struggles for space and can end up isolated. PF on attack duty would be my preferred option in this particular case. DLF on attack duty can also be a decent choice. 

[Fflow]

2 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

PF on attack duty

works for me, thanks !

[Experienced Defender]

Just now, Fflow said:

works for me, thanks !

How so quickly ??? 

[Fflow]

I ment my striker can play PF so if it works, it solves a lot of my problems

Edited April 3, 2020 by Fflow