Shots with no angle

[Rascanuvols]

First of all, I'm sure this has been answered before, but I can't find it (English is my third language and football terminology can get really specific), so sorry for that.

My issue is that my wide player ALWAY choose to shoot instead of passing the ball. They will put crosses from outside the area, but once they are in, they alway make a run for the goal and shoot from impossible positions. I've tried most of the roles, and this behaviour is consistent.

Do you have any advice?

[Hilly1979]

Without seeing your tactic it could be a number of things, eg role selected, having no other options etc.

Post a shot of your tactic and I’m sure people here can help.

[Rascanuvols]

32 minutes ago, Hilly1979 said:

Without seeing your tactic it could be a number of things, eg role selected, having no other options etc.

Post a shot of your tactic and I’m sure people here can help.

Sure!

Feel free to completely demolish it while you are at it, as is tradition here. I play pretty casually and I'm sure you'll find many wrong things, but the issue with the shots seems to happen no matter the tactic. As a matter of fact, the IA players do exactly the same and I don't have a say on their tactics, but I guess they aren't pretty smart to begin with.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rascanuvols

[TheGoodRebel]

When you play with an AML and AMR as well as a Positive Mentality - a lot of the roles actually give these players an individual mentality of Very Attacking.

Therefore, their primary focus is going to be on scoring goals rather than creating. This is especially the case if they have low teamwork.

[Rascanuvols]

41 minutes ago, TheGoodRebel said:

When you play with an AML and AMR as well as a Positive Mentality - a lot of the roles actually give these players an individual mentality of Very Attacking.

Therefore, their primary focus is going to be on scoring goals rather than creating. This is especially the case if they have low teamwork.

That is interesting, and admittedly and don't know that much about how mentality affects everything, but it would have never occurred to me that more attacking mentality would make my players more individualistic as opposed to more risky. And to be honest, I'm not convinced at all, it doesn't sound right, and if that's the case, the descriptions need some radical rewriting. In fact, I constantly switch between positive and defensive depending on the match (wich I've been reading is a mistake on itself, but that's another story that has nothing to do with this), and still have to see an horitzontal pass from the byline.

The teamwork thing makes sense in theory, and not going to lie, I haven't kept track of the teamwork stat of the dozens of wide players I had in hundreds of hours os gameplay, but there's no way that every single one of them had such an abysmal teamwork that not a sigle time they thought of passing for a tap in from the byline. I have NEVER seen such a goal (or attempt) in the HUNDREDS of time it's happened.

 

EDIT: my last phrase is not an hyperbole, even if I admit I might be remembering wrong, but can someone actually post an example of such a goal? I know the answer is always "it's not the game's fault, it's your tactics", but it's hard to shake off the feeling. And maybe there is more insight to gain from a successful tactic than from trying to fix an unsuccsessful one.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Rascanuvols

[Hilly1979]

@TheGoodRebel is totally correct regarding the individual mentality, you can easily find this out by looking at the individual player instruction screen, so yes team mentality needs to be taken into account when choosing individual player duties.

To be honest other than that the roles and duties look pretty balanced, my issue would be the team instructions:

1. why select over lap left and right when you already have natural over Laps?

2. Your playing on positive mentality but then bumping this up even more by the selection of higher tempo, higher defensive line, extremely urgent, you are in fact turning this into quite an attacking tactic so I’m not surprised you have got players taking shots when it’s probably not the best option, you are instructing them to take a lot of risks.

 

 

[Rascanuvols]

1 hour ago, Hilly1979 said:

@TheGoodRebel is totally correct regarding the individual mentality, you can easily find this out by looking at the individual player instruction screen, so yes team mentality needs to be taken into account when choosing individual player duties.

To be honest other than that the roles and duties look pretty balanced, my issue would be the team instructions:

1. why select over lap left and right when you already have natural over Laps?

2. Your playing on positive mentality but then bumping this up even more by the selection of higher tempo, higher defensive line, extremely urgent, you are in fact turning this into quite an attacking tactic so I’m not surprised you have got players taking shots when it’s probably not the best option, you are instructing them to take a lot of risks.

 

 

I still can't wrap my head around how more attacking means more individualistic or no passing, but I value the input on the tactic regardless. I might try taking it down a notch, but as I said, it still happens on more defensive mentalities. And and quite pleased with the tactic's performance in general, it's just this particular thing that drives me crazy.

 

 

[zyfon5]

6 hours ago, Rascanuvols said:

I still can't wrap my head around how more attacking means more individualistic or no passing, but I value the input on the tactic regardless. I might try taking it down a notch, but as I said, it still happens on more defensive mentalities. And and quite pleased with the tactic's performance in general, it's just this particular thing that drives me crazy.

 

 

More attacking mentality in FM translates to more likely to look for goals. Hence for players with very attacking mentality their primary objective is to score goals when they have the chance to do so regardless if it is a good chance. His mental attributes will decide how likely he will make a bad choice. Player traits will also influence their decision.

[zyfon5]

Also u need to observe in game whether there is a clear pathway for a cutback to be made. Sometimes it is better just to kick the ball at the net for a goal kick or corner rather than make a bad pass to the opposition for an easy counter bcz all ur players are out of position to stop the counter. Guardiola who likes to use cutbacks always choreograph his players how to move to maximize the chances of scoring from a cutback and to counter press immediately if they lose the ball from the attempted cutback.

[Experienced Defender]

22 hours ago, Rascanuvols said:

 

23 hours ago, Rascanuvols said:

My issue is that my wide player ALWAY choose to shoot instead of passing the ball. They will put crosses from outside the area, but once they are in, they alway make a run for the goal and shoot from impossible positions

The problem can sometimes be caused by a player's mental attributes (such as poor decision-making or lack of vision), but is usually of a tactical nature. 

Now, looking at your tactic, what potentially could lead to the issue you are having is a bit too rushed play (especially if your players are not top-class). Which means that you should tone down tempo a bit, to begin with. Because the positive team mentality already encourages a faster tempo by default, and then you have sped it up even more. 

So first drop the tempo to default (medium) instead of higher and see if there is any improvement. If that's not enough, change the passing to shorter as well. But make these tweaks one at a time, not both at once.

Also remove the Counter instruction, because in a tactic like yours it is more likely to lead to needless losses of possession and rushed shots on goal (which is exactly what you want to avoid) than anything really effective. 

And definitely remove the Pass into space instruction, because it does not fit in with the rest of the tactic anyway. Your tactic is too aggressive to allow for that space you are looking to pass into.

You also need to know that the way your team attacks is directly related to the way it defends. And your defensive (out-of-possession) instructions are far from optimal and sensible. So that can also be part of your problem. And tight marking definitely makes no sense in a tactic like yours (including the formation). 

In terms of roles/duties, the setup looks pretty decent (nothing wrong per se). I would only reconsider the striker's role. DLF on attack would make more sense in my book than a CF in this particular type of system. Because CF as a role works better when he has more space to operate and express himself. In a top-heavy formation such as 4231 - plus so aggressive tactic like yours - a CF is more likely to overcomplicate things (even if you have a really suitable player for the role).