Best full back/raumdeuter combination?

[GianniM]

Just now, Dysania said:

Attributes matter way more than role suitability. I frequently have fun playing playmakers at full back with a 1 segment in red for the role suitability and it works fine.

Exactly. See my RB? Orange. He actually plays most of his matches as an IWB for which he's in red even: 

He's the third best player of La Liga in terms of match ratings. 

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Jorge666 said:

being 1860 im facing teams that are better than me a lot

Why is then your tactic so aggressive - including a top heavy 4231 formation on top of that ??? 

 

4 hours ago, Jorge666 said:

 

2 hours ago, Jorge666 said:

Neither of these setups suit a RMD as a role, because he needs others to create space for him, not to attack and compete for that same space.

Plus, the 4231 as a formation is not optimal for using a RMD anyway. The 4123 would make a lot more sense. 

To cut a long story short, here is an example of a tactic in which a RMD could make a lot more sense:

F9

RMD                                 IWsu

MEZsu    DLPsu

DMde

WBsu    CDde    CDde    FBat

Or:

F9

RMD                                IWsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde   CDde   WBsu

But besides the setup of roles and duties, you also need to set the instructions right. Try to keep them as simple as possible. Remember: less is often more, especially in FM. 

[Jorge666]

3 minutes ago, GianniM said:

This is how I set up using a RMD vs Liverpool:

Pass into space and be more expressive to evoke killer passes

Regroup with a standard LOE to make sure he's got space to attack. 

Low crosses, well because I won't beat Virgil van Dijk in the air. 

FBat on the opposite side to cross to the Raumdeuter. 

and the FBatt set to cross to? far post? and looking at reus physical stats the raumdeuter is gonna have to be on ice for now i think...

[GianniM]

5 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

that regen has a release clause of 5.25m so hes mine if nobody buys him before the season is out! 

But before you do that, let's get back to where we started: You can buy the best RMD in the world but with your set-up he'll never be your star player. 

[GianniM]

1 minute ago, Jorge666 said:

and the FBatt set to cross to? far post? 

Haven't set that. He'll make his own decisions regarding that. 

[Jorge666]

1 minute ago, GianniM said:

But before you do that, let's get back to where we started: You can buy the best RMD in the world but with your set-up he'll never be your star player. 

Yeah i hear you, I'll try some of your and Experienced defender's role suggestions and see if i can make it work

[Experienced Defender]

Just now, Jorge666 said:

I'll try some of your and Experienced defender's role suggestions and see if i can make it work

Instructions matter as well. A wrong selection of instruction can easily ruin a good setup of roles and duties. So be careful and watch the matches patiently. Do not rush things and do not make random tweaks.

[Jorge666]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Why is then your tactic so aggressive - including a top heavy 4231 formation on top of that ??? 

 

 

Neither of these setups suit a RMD as a role, because he needs others to create space for him, not to attack and compete for that same space.

Plus, the 4231 as a formation is not optimal for using a RMD anyway. The 4123 would make a lot more sense. 

To cut a long story short, here is an example of a tactic in which a RMD could make a lot more sense:

F9

RMD                                 IWsu

MEZsu    DLPsu

DMde

WBsu    CDde    CDde    FBat

Or:

F9

RMD                                IWsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde   CDde   WBsu

But besides the setup of roles and duties, you also need to set the instructions right. Try to keep them as simple as possible. Remember: less is often more, especially in FM. 

I'll try some of those in the friendlies mid season, ive redone my team instructions to make it solely possession based and left out any counter elements and have seen a better response, i feel like its closer to what im wanting, now ill just try the roles youve suggested with the TI that have been better than before 

[GianniM]

Bear in mind that the pressing (especially when extremely urgent) and prevent short gk dist won't work as wel in a 4-1-4-1 (as the game calls it) 4-1-2-3 as it does in a 4-2-3-1 because you'll have less players up front to pull it off. 

[Keyzer Soze]

39 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Why is then your tactic so aggressive - including a top heavy 4231 formation on top of that ??? 

 

 

Neither of these setups suit a RMD as a role, because he needs others to create space for him, not to attack and compete for that same space.

Plus, the 4231 as a formation is not optimal for using a RMD anyway. The 4123 would make a lot more sense. 

To cut a long story short, here is an example of a tactic in which a RMD could make a lot more sense:

F9

RMD                                 IWsu

MEZsu    DLPsu

DMde

WBsu    CDde    CDde    FBat

Or:

F9

RMD                                IWsu

DLPsu   MEZat

HB

WBsu   CDde   CDde   WBsu

But besides the setup of roles and duties, you also need to set the instructions right. Try to keep them as simple as possible. Remember: less is often more, especially in FM. 

Is the only logical choice the F9 to combine well with the RMD?

I was wondering if a DLF with attack duty could work well, giving more options in the attack.

Something in the line of this:

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RMD(a)

DLP(s)       MEZ(a)

DM(d)

WB(a)     CD(d)       CD(d)       FB(s)

SK(s)

 

OR

 

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RMD(a)

DLP(s)       CM(a)

HB(d)

WB(a)     CD(d)       CD(d)       WB(s)

SK(s)

[Experienced Defender]

52 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

 

52 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

ive redone my team instructions

Okay, but I fear more changes will be needed to your instructions. Anyway, test it first and see if and how it works. 

[Experienced Defender]

20 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Is the only logical choice the F9 to combine well with the RMD?

Of course not. Trequartista or DLF can also work nicely (in some cases a TM on support duty can do a fine job as well). But only if the whole setup makes sense. 

 

22 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

I was wondering if a DLF with attack duty could work well, giving more options in the attack

DLF on any duty definitely makes more sense in combination with a RMD than roles such as AF, poacher or PF on attack. 

 

25 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

Something in the line of this:

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RMD(a)

DLP(s)       MEZ(a)

DM(d)

WB(a)     CD(d)       CD(d)       FB(s)

SK(s)

 

OR

 

DLF(a)

IF(s)                                     RMD(a)

DLP(s)       CM(a)

HB(d)

WB(a)     CD(d)       CD(d)       WB(s)

SK(s)

Not really. Because you are denying the RMD space he needs to operate by playing those attack-duty CMs straight behind him. 

[Keyzer Soze]

5 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Of course not. Trequartista or DLF can also work nicely (in some cases a TM on support duty can do a fine job as well). But only if the whole setup makes sense. 

 

DLF on any duty definitely makes more sense in combination with a RMD than roles such as AF, poacher or PF on attack. 

 

Not really. Because you are denying the RMD space he needs to operate by playing those attack-duty CMs straight behind him. 

So, in the setups i've posted the key is changing the duty of the midfielder closer to the RMD to a more support role, getting out of the way of the RMD.

[Experienced Defender]

13 minutes ago, Keyzer Soze said:

So, in the setups i've posted the key is changing the duty of the midfielder closer to the RMD to a more support role, getting out of the way of the RMD

Yes. But again - do not focus only on one part/aspect of a tactic. Always take the big picture into account. 

[Jorge666]

6 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

Yes. But again - do not focus only on one part/aspect of a tactic. Always take the big picture into account. 

Another thing on a side note if you have knowledge on this matter, when you set your roles, I was (before) changing them just to whatever their fully green position was so different each match, if I'm doing that does that affect the training ie does the team training include what roles you have selected for the tactic at any given time and me constantly altering it is changing that? And also if I "clear all positions" after every match (which I usually do as I pick the team from scratch each match) will that be having negative impact also?

[Experienced Defender]

9 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

when you set your roles, I was (before) changing them just to whatever their fully green position was so different each match

First off, you should look at a player's attributes (primarily) to see if he suits a certain role well (not the green circle). All players are able to play more than just one role. Then you need to think of how each role within your setup interacts with those around. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

if I'm doing that does that affect the training ie does the team training include what roles you have selected for the tactic at any given time and me constantly altering it is changing that?

I am not 100% sure about training specifically, but I believe it does have a negative impact on training as well. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jorge666 said:

nd also if I "clear all positions" after every match (which I usually do as I pick the team from scratch each match) will that be having negative impact also?

I never do that, so cannot tell you for sure. But I guess it's not a good idea (as with the training). 

[Jorge666]

16 minutes ago, Experienced Defender said:

First off, you should look at a player's attributes (primarily) to see if he suits a certain role well (not the green circle). All players are able to play more than just one role. Then you need to think of how each role within your setup interacts with those around. 

 

I am not 100% sure about training specifically, but I believe it does have a negative impact on training as well. 

 

I never do that, so cannot tell you for sure. But I guess it's not a good idea (as with the training). 

I'm gonna leave the roles now and start leaving the players selected until next match just in case, I've set up a 2nd tactic taking into account the roles you advised and when they reach a good familiarity with that also I'll give it a whirl, probably be either Dec/Jan friendlies or in preseason, I'll possibly have signed that AMR raumdeuter regen by then as well, as the other lad said earlier reus probably can't pull it off anymore, on the upside I spanked Dortmund 2-0 at home, it's seemed to make a big difference removing what were said to be some of the contradictory TI's and playing a more focused possession game 

[Jorge666]

On 07/05/2020 at 16:58, GianniM said:

Bear in mind that the pressing (especially when extremely urgent) and prevent short gk dist won't work as wel in a 4-1-4-1 (as the game calls it) 4-1-2-3 as it does in a 4-2-3-1 because you'll have less players up front to pull it off. 

Well, I'd like to thank you for the advice, my wingers are certainly playing well now, unbelievable the difference it's made, i think modifying the training and adding my own schedules has helped a lot as well