How to develop a De Zerbi Inspired 4-2-3-1?

[WhoAreYa?]

I’ll be using Southampton which immediately throws up a few problems before I begin. They’re not Sassuolo and as such I don’t have the same players or the same opponents. The players are pretty average to be honest and as such I won’t be able to dominate games from day one. This will probably have to be a developing project. They are however both middle to low teams and Sassuolo have taken that in their stride but for me it will be difficult to replicate entertaining, possession football when teams don’t let me have the ball. 

 

I haven’t been very tactically astute for a number of years now but what I can do is create possession orientated systems. Although, these tend to be slow and quite dull. I really struggle to create possession with intent without quality players. I know this is a buzzword (buzzphrase?) at the minute and there are a lot of threads but I’m still struggling so I’m opening up my own thread. My latest attempt at PWI was with Sunderland, where we were the league leaders in possession and were automatically promoted but sat quite a few places back for chances created and goals scored. It was a successful season where I learned a lot, but at times it was awful to watch! Previously (Maybe FM16/17), I created a successful Guardiola/ Spanish National Team inspired positional 4-2-3-1 that had PWI and made my Spartak Moscow side a very strong team. The point being I don’t think this challenge is beyond me. 

 

I’ve chosen De Zerbi’s Sassuolo for a couple of reasons. I came across their style quite recently and saw that it ticks some of my favourite roles and I found I really enjoyed watching them. The deep, narrow full backs acting almost like Pep’s inverted wing backs are something that I did manage to use successfully at Sunderland and I love crowding that midfield. Also, the number 10 is iconic and easily my favourite role in football that I need to get working. Deepish central midfielders, wingers and an aggressive forward (all used at Sassuolo) should give him the space needed to flourish - all of which have come from the #10 thread and make perfect sense. See, I have done some reading! 

 

I’m starting with the following system which does need some key additions before match day one:

 

 

The front four have more urgent pressing (I can’t use the ball if I don’t have it)

The full backs cut inside (creating passing options and a midfield overload)

My AMC takes more risks and moves into channels

 

It’s a messy tactics screen at the minute with them all still on holiday but I’ll talk you through a couple of key players. The full backs, crucially I think, don’t have any hugs line or runs with ball traits but K. Walker-Peters does like to get forward whenever possible. S. Armstrong will be my preferred AMC and he is a clean slate. I’ve chosen C. Adams over D. Ings because Ings likes the ball at his feet and I want my striker going the opposite way creating AMC space. C. Adams runs with the ball and places shots but doesn’t have any movement traits. Central midfield is tricky. They sort of need to be allrounders but apart from that I’m struggling to define their Sassuolo roles. They don’t come too deep but they also don’t stray too far forwards. Also, I have two completely different players and it will be interesting to see how they play the same role. J. Ward-Prowse is a clean slate but P. Hojbjerg tries killer balls, dictates tempo and switches the ball to the other flank. Those traits do excite me, especially as he’s already a workhorse. At first glance I thought wow he’s bad but maybe he has a chance. 

 

These are the rest of my players in a threadbare and quite average squad (no transfers allowed). A few youth players will be promoted to fill the gaps. Southampton finished 16th on 39 points last season. This season the board wants to avoid relegation and I personally want to beat last season, so I’d be happy with 15th and/ or 40 points.

 

 

Other tactical thoughts: I want us to play out from the back and I’m considering play out of defence and giving my GK short distribution instructions. I think with the back six I have enough options for them to find these passes even in a top-heavy formation. I don’t want shorter passing though because I want to see passes releasing the wingers and forwards as teams push up and press me. Not sure about tempo either, I don’t want them to panic on the ball but equally I don’t want slow possession for possession’s sake. Is balanced too cautious? I don’t think I need to counter-press either with my front four being high and already urgent and don’t see the point of working the ball into the box with wingers (maybe set them to low crosses) and hopefully S. Armstrong and P. Hojbjerg especially are set up to play through balls into the box ahead of C. Adams. Possibly dribble less because the wingers will already dribble and the attacking mentality of S. Armstrong will probably see him attempting a few dribbles. With not a lot of possession instructions, this one might help us keep the ball that bit better. These are all instructions discussed in Herne's thread but I struggled to find the right balance in my Sunderland game.

 

This should be a developing thread as I play around with the system to try and create a successful brand of football that raises Southampton up the league. It is an education though and I’ve tried to document every thought process. I may be doing something fundamentally wrong with how I see some roles or completely omitting something key. I’m here to learn! 

Edited June 19, 2020 by WhoAreYa?

[wixxi]

I think an AM on attack duty without the 'Comes deep to get ball' PPM may be positioned too high to receive the ball in a possession system, and I think you should probably pay close attention to the double pivots since having both on support duties may leave you open in transitions, but other than that this seems like a logical base for what you have planned . Spielverlagerung recently published an article on Sassuolo's positional play system, I recommend giving it a read for some more insight on to how their system functions. While it's quite difficult to recreate some of the positional concepts shown in the article such as the CM's positioning relative to the ball side in build-up, there's still some things to be learned there.

[Jean0987654321]

Some reading

https://spielverlagerung.com/2020/05/02/sassuolos-positional-play-system/

https://serieaanalysis.com/analysis/head-coach-analysis/roberto-de-zerbi-sassuolo-201920-tactical-analysis-tactics

Edited June 13, 2020 by Jean0987654321

[JoOSTAR]

I'll be following this 

[WhoAreYa?]

17 hours ago, wixxi said:

I think an AM on attack duty without the 'Comes deep to get ball' PPM may be positioned too high to receive the ball in a possession system, and I think you should probably pay close attention to the double pivots since having both on support duties may leave you open in transitions, but other than that this seems like a logical base for what you have planned . Spielverlagerung recently published an article on Sassuolo's positional play system, I recommend giving it a read for some more insight on to how their system functions. While it's quite difficult to recreate some of the positional concepts shown in the article such as the CM's positioning relative to the ball side in build-up, there's still some things to be learned there.

 

Thank you wixxi.

AMC - You're right, potentially too aggressive. I may go support with the get further forwards PI. Without, I think we don't have enough penetration and bodies in the box to share the goal scoring burden.

MC - Maybe a hold position shout or a player who stays back at all times or something could work. Again from what I've read about Sassuolo I can't work out the roles of the midfield two who are usually Obiang and Locatelli. I think they are shielders but play a high number of forward passes. Maybe drop them back to defensive midfielders on support? Or just watch a few games!

 

17 hours ago, Jean0987654321 said:

Some reading

https://spielverlagerung.com/2020/05/02/sassuolos-positional-play-system/

https://serieaanalysis.com/analysis/head-coach-analysis/roberto-de-zerbi-sassuolo-201920-tactical-analysis-tactics

Thank you, it was pretty much these two articles that made me want to play as them. I saw the spielverlagerung one first then TFA for de Zerbi and their striker Caputo.

 

17 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

I'll be following this 

Good to have you along for the ride thanks!

---

 

 

I've added a couple of team instructions and decided to see how we fare at our Chinese training camp. We play three games in China followed by three home games against Met. Police, Lyon and MK Dons.

[WhoAreYa?]

Touchdown in China

 

My pre-season tour of China is finally underway. Three games await us well away from prying eyes. My squad is ravaged either by being on holiday still or through niggly injuries. I’ll be using a lot of back up players, but hopefully I’ll still be able to look at the system. I've set up training, scouting and now I can finally turn to the football. I realise these games are early, non-competitive and come when we are very short staffed.

 

Southampton vs Tianjin (1-1)

 

Well that was dull. We had 58% of the ball and completed 88% of our passes. We had a decent amount of shots from inside the box which were mostly off target. However, these were not very good chances at all. The majority were headed attempts either from a cross or a wide free kick delivery. We really struggled to create chances for C. Adams or W. Smallbone who usually took up good positions in the box but we bypassed them. The crossing output was what perhaps frustrated me the most watching the game. We tried 65 crosses in the game with a 17% connection rate. The wingers were very keen to run into dead ends and were wasteful in possession - despite the high possession stat. They touched the ball far more than any other position. 

(Shots)

 

We were very safe and steady in possession, P. Hojbjerg completed 97% of his passes and Romeu 95%. These were quite deep, safe passes from the central areas, often wide to the wingers. They’re neither here nor there as CM(S) not really offering much but drifting forwards and leaving acres of space behind them. As predicted my AM(A) wasn’t involved and neither was C. Adams. Also the full backs didn’t really seem to be working as intended, often just being cautious and wide and often drifting through on the overlap. K. Walker-Peters does have an eye for a pass, though. 

(Passes from central midfield)

 

(W. Smallbone (AMC) involvement)

 

(C. Adams involvement)

 

It wasn’t all bad, our high press forced many turnovers and we have shown that we can keep the ball. The central midfielders did show for the ball but didn’t attract it like magnets and I often saw either the defenders or GK bypass them with a good pass, but this was to the wingers who then just ran and left everybody else behind apart from the AMC but the crosses were poor and didn’t find the dual targets in the box. 

 

The Tactics Board

 

I don’t want to make too many rash tactical decisions based on one game. I wanted to leave this set up for the full tour at least but I’m not sure if I can, it really seemed that bad. The wingers, attacking midfield, full backs, central midfielders and striker all underperformed. I’m going to try and bullet point potential changes or areas of improvement and wait for some community advice before I move onto game two. 

 

Wingers hogging the ball and making poor choices (swap roles, IF from favoured foot side and add roaming and/ or more risky passes)

Full backs far too cautious and not making enough central movements (Change to IWB’s which would mean keeping some sort of winger role even if it's WM or modified IF)

 

I’m putting a break in here because I think the next three are all linked...

 

AMC/ ST not involved

CM’s cautious and neither attacking or defensive

Poor/ lack of build up play

 

If I do change my full backs I don’t think I need to touch my central midfielders and if I move my CMs to DMs I don’t need to change my full backs because I’ve removed the space for them.

I’m considering a Treq role at AMC. IF’s will step on his toes but DM’s will give him more space to bring the ST into play.

I think the winger roles are my main source of poor build up play. By getting the ball and running I can’t tell if my tempo or passing instructions are too cautious or not - which I think they are anyway but I've no way to tell.

If I change one role I could easily spiral into 3,4,5 changes which I really don’t want to do but I feel like I need to do something...

 

 

Edited June 19, 2020 by WhoAreYa?

[WhoAreYa?]

Also, what on Earth is going on with my formatting? I'm using Google Docs to write up my posts and pasting in.

[Djuicer]

5 minutes ago, WhoAreYa? said:

Also, what on Earth is going on with my formatting? I'm using Google Docs to write up my posts and pasting in.

That does not work. Ctrl+shift+v for clean paste. Then you have to re do the formating. Its time consuming but gives good results.

[WhoAreYa?]

Thanks @Djuicer I'll do that next time.

 

Just about to watch the game again and see if I notice anything different. I'm really not in a rush to whizz through this save. I'd rather take my time and actually build something like I was actually in control. I'd rather have one fantastic, engaging season than five underwhelming ones.

---

Well, it didn't get better with a second viewing... I think I've got a mismatch of roles here that don't really work together or compliment each other. I've had a tinker with the tactics board and come up with the following; it looks a bit more dramatic than it actually is.

 

 

• The huge gap between defence and midfield was going to be trouble in the league so one midfielder becomes more defensive. The eventual plan here is to create a deeper and a more avanced playmaker set of roles with instructions and traits without those actual tags which will attract the ball.

 

• S. Armstrong becomes a Treq. It's still an attacking role in which I will expect goals and assists, but hopefully he will drop into holes looking for the ball too.

 

• I've ditched the wingers and brought them deeper. This will give S. Armstrong more space and help our defensive shape. I've given them both get further forward, stay wider and take more risks. So still acting like a winger just with reduced dribbling and an option to look for a killer pass. S. Boufal is right footed and has runs with ball often as a trait so that adds something different and is why I placed the defend duty next to him.

 

• The full backs were not acting like I wanted them to so out go FB(S) with cut inside instructions to actual IWB's. I'd like to see J. Ward-Prowse sitting central letting my full backs flank him, forming a 3 man midfield and a strong DM/CM presence.

Edited June 19, 2020 by WhoAreYa?

[WhoAreYa?]

Southampton vs Bejing Renhe (1-0)

Much, much, much better. Interestingly, we had exactly the same amount of possession with 58% of the ball but much better penetration. We also had the same amount of key passes with another five in this game too. I didn’t actually show the key passes last time but I’m going to show both games side by side and it shows exactly why I’m so much happier with our most recent performance.

vs Beijing Renhe                                                                                             vs Tianjin

All five in the second game were into the box with only one from out wide - and this wasn’t really a cross because P. Hojbjerg chased down a loose ball, swivelled and picked out S. Armstrong for an easy header at the back post.

There were also 2/3 other dangerous through passes from S. Armstrong towards C. Adams which were intercepted by last ditch defending. We cut them open for fun from the number 10 zone which equals very dangerous, high percentage chances.

I made another tactical change after 20 minutes because at that point we were doing well but could do better. We had two key passes and 69% possession but I felt that we were a bit too safe, so up we went to positive and P. Hojbjerg was given get further forward. He thrived and was 0.1 match rating behind goal scorer and MotM S. Armstrong. We sacrificed 11% of possession but we got the goal and dominated the game.

Mixed bag here, I’m toying with work ball into box. I may leave it and trust their decision making but I see a few too many shots from outside the box. It may be a byproduct of switching to positive mentality. If I see any player consistently shooting from too far out I’ll address that with a PI.

In the last game we saw an extremely rigid and defined 4-2-3-1 shape. This meant that players were being very safe and sticking to their allotted zones. Here, we see clearly the full backs overloading the midfield and P. Hojbjerg is supporting S. Armstrong so I’m very pleased here. If I was nit picking, O. Romeu could be slightly more central and C. Adams does look quite isolated up front.

 

The Tactics Board

 

I think I’ve found my base shape so I’ll do some heavy work on familiarity in the next few weeks. I’ve got one more game in China followed by a morale booster when I get home against Met. Police. Match fitness minutes will be shared out equally. I liked the positive mentality against these sorts of teams so I’m going to start with that and I’ll also give P. Hojbjerg more license to support attacks. I just have to be careful not to train that too much because I don't see us being the favourites in many PL games.

 

[WhoAreYa?]

Southampton 0-0 Lyon

Something interesting has happened that I need to discuss and hopefully find a solution for. This is now the second time that I have noticed us get completely out passed. The first was against Shandong but we won 3-2 and so I think I glossed over it a little. Shandong had 63% of the ball and Lyon has just kept the ball 64% of the game - with 10 men. I either don’t have a skin which tells me their mentality or I’m doing something wrong when scouting the opposition because their match mentality is a mystery to me. One thing that instantly stands out on the action zones screen is that they both dominated the midfield. Thinking back to the matches this did seem to be low midfield so maybe this is a case of them completing cautious passes. I’d expect that from Shandong but not Lyon. Before their sending off, which was very early, they were controlling the ball so I don’t know if they switched mentality or not. They are still a highly reputable team, I can’t really understand them not playing their usual attacking game against us.

 

It’s quite a worrying observation because I want to be in control of the ball more often than not. Couple this with us being a low ranked team in the EPL then we are already up against it in terms of being on the front foot. Then triple that with our entire tactical set up being aimed at keeping the ball then you can see the problem! I’m not sure if they were playing cautiously against us and so because EPL teams won’t be (mostly) I should be ok, or if there’s something glaring in my tactical set up which points to us not being able to keep the ball. Or indeed win the ball back. I’ve got one more pre-season game against MK Dons then I face Leicester at home. My optimism has swung towards pessimism.

 

Should I be that bothered though? I won the Shandong game 3-2 with both of their goals coming from set pieces. As you can see from the Lyon stats I was probably unlucky to not win that game too because I had more chances (and you can't see that they were actually good chances). It irks my inner need to control games but can I let that bother me? If these were EPL games then I'd consider it bad luck to not be sitting on 6 points.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------

This isn’t dead. I've just been very busy and not had a chance for any gametime. I’m still very much looking forward to this game and can't wait to get cracked on. If anything the break has allowed me to add a few more young, up and coming players to my shortlist for January. I’ll play the MK Dons game then turn my attention towards scouting Leicester and preparing for that game.

 

[WhoAreYa?]

Leicester City Scout Report

 

A boring 1-0 victory over MK Dons, where we again lost the possession battle, leads us through pre-season and into competitive action. 

 

 

I’m taking a good look at the scouting package that has been prepared for me. There seems to be an immediate anomaly between their expected formation and the one that they have been using in the previous two games. They are predicted to use a narrow 4-4-2 diamond yet their last two games have been a more conventional 4-3-3 with a DM. Both formations will see S. Armstrong struggling for space as my #10. B. Rodgers prefers the deeper 4-3-3 so I’m edging towards expecting this set up. All of their systems include an attacking mentality with gegenpressing. The saving grace is that I don’t see fantastic levels of work rate or fitness in their midfield or attackers (J. Vardy aside who is expected to only play if they use the 4-4-2 diamond). Again, not sure that I trust that. I think they’ll look to press the ball and then use the vision of J. Maddison and Y. Tielemans to launch quick balls to their rapid front three. Chances are created from deep which links into this prediction. My assistant recommends I counter this by using the aerial ability of J. Vestergaard but there’s no way that his 8 pace gets anywhere near this game. 

Looking at their analyst report from their final pre-season fixture you can clearly see J. Maddison spraying key passes from deep. Very progressive, forward passes. 115 forward passes and 224 medium passes also supports this. 43% of attacks are also through RW D. Gray, I’m happy with this as R. Bertrand is a strong option at LB for me who should be able to match him. 

 

I’ve touched upon how I think my shape will play against this set up but I want to delve a little deeper. 

 

Positives:

 

• My two IWB’s should see us have a spare man in midfield whichever formation they choose. 
• This packed midfield may allow us to get closer to their playmakers.
• R. Bertrand should nullify D. Gray.
• C. Adams possesses good pace and should exploit their high line. 

 

Concerns:

 

• My average ball-playing defenders will be under lots of pressure.
• Lack of pace could be exploited by Leicester’s front three.
• J. Maddison and Y. Tielemans have the ability to hurt us.
• S. Armstrong will be marked out of the game by their DM. 
• Possible AMC sitting between our defence and midfield. 

 

The Tactics Board

 

• Despite being at home Leicester are a very good side. I’ll play with a cautious mentality to start with to drop a little deeper and try to keep hold of the ball. 
• I intend to switch to balanced later in the game. 
• J. Stephens plays in place of J. Vestergaard.
• Tight marking on J. Maddison and Y. Tielemans.
• I’m expecting a 4-3-3 but will have a contingency plan in place should they field an AMC. 

[Vero]

I'm currently trying to emulate this thing too, playing as Sassuolo itself. Gotta say I'm struggling throughout the season, running 10th place at March. That's my setup right now:

FBs have cut inside and sit narrow PIs, wingers stay wider. I'm thinking of adding "roam from position" to Caputo to get him involved in the passing game more.

 

Now, that may look simple, but I already tried some wild things before and they didn't work. First I tried using midfielders in the DM strata, Locatelli as a Regista and Obiang as a DM, but I found it to be too conservative and also there was a big gap between them and the attacking four.
Then I read the Spielverlagerung article, found out about deep and narrow positioning of the FBs and how the ST drove to the left and AM to the right in the build-up. I tried recreating the latter, moving ST to a STCL position and AM to an AMCR which was not very smart since they positioned like that in all stages of the game, not only the build-up, so that just looked weird and overall wasn't effective.
I also tried the IWB roles, but didn't found them working quite well. They just stayed too close to the midfielders, literally in a couple of meters away from them. Don't know if it's supposed to work that way, perhaps it's poor with the 4231 formation.

So I decided to get things simple and came up with the current tactic above. FBs with these PIs to recreate this aspect of RL Sassuolo; I'm not sure with the AM role though. What PIs should I give it? Right now it's just a generic position, so I'm thinking of adding something like Take More Risks, especially because whoever I put in this role are getting low ratings at the end of the match. Also I don't know about the ST role. Caputo IRL seems to be involved in the passing game, so I'm thinking of DLF or maybe even a F9, but this leaves me with weak penetration. May try setting AM to attack duty then?
It's simple with the wingers though. At the very beggining I had a dillema of IW and IF. So I read that IF are more advanced and risky role. Berardi IRL seems to be more involved in the play so he got an IW to provide support, and left wing got an IF.

My first match with this tactic:

We conceded from a corner at the beginning, but the overall numbers seem nice. I watched some parts in full match mode and the patterns were sweet, so I will continue with this tactic. And of course, I will appreciate the advice. 

[04texag]

I just read those two articles and watched some highlight, then I tweaked my own 4231 to see if I could get something similar and OMG it was amazing. I would take your tactic and try two things. For fullbacks, support will allow them to get too high. I put mine on automatic instead of support, told them to hold position and less risky passes. This really helped keep them back to circulate possession, which seems important for this style, particularly with the wingers in front told to stay wide and further forward.

Second, I put on CM on CM-d, as a hold/pivot, then put the other on AP-A, to spearhead attacking moves forward. Throughout the game, I switched these two players sides to alternate and vary the attack. 

I just smashed in 6 goals as a relegation predicted Portsmouth in the PL against Everton, it was a great game. 

[camoulton21]

Has anyone had any more progress with this? Sassuolo have started the season well so far and after learning about De Zerbi's play style from this topic (plus the linked tactical analysis articles) I think that there is so many interesting concepts to discuss

• The CMs playing behind the first line of pressure and looking to use the third man combination to outplay the opponent
• FBs deep and narrow that are also willing to charge forward for underlaps or overlaps depending on winger positioning
• Wingers that hold their width
• AMC and ST playing in the half spaces and looking to receive in between the lines or run in behind
• The potential for wide rotations whereby the winger moves inside, the FB high, and CM in a faux FB position

Sassuolo's system seems really innovative and cool, it's great to see non-traditionally big sides perform well by thinking outside of the box. Maybe they can emulate the success of Atalanta in the last few years

[04texag]

I adopted some of what I learned here, from the articles, and also my own efforts noted in the post before yours, and then pushed further with similar-ish concepts in my Juego de Posicion tactical series. Maybe check that out. 

That said, this is a fun and slightly more unique style of play from most of the other typical FM tactics. I would love to see a long save/tactical thread adopting this.

[camoulton21]

The 4-2-3-1 becomes a 4-2-4 in possession with some strong similarities to Guardiola at City in recent years. The final line utilises wingers that stretch the pitch and players that position themselves in the half spaces looking for underlapping runs in behind. Even the FB positioning is narrow and not "on the same line" as the wingers even if it cannot be considered quite as inverted as Guardiola's City

On 21/10/2020 at 03:26, 04texag said:

I adopted some of what I learned here, from the articles, and also my own efforts noted in the post before yours, and then pushed further with similar-ish concepts in my Juego de Posicion tactical series. Maybe check that out. 

Ty for the recommendation, I'll check it out

[04texag]

You could recreate that picture by taking the left side of my JdP tactic and mirroring it on the right, then change the AF to a CF-s. Put underlaps on both sides.

[DNZ-8]

On 28/10/2020 at 18:14, camoulton21 said:

The 4-2-3-1 becomes a 4-2-4 in possession with some strong similarities to Guardiola at City in recent years. The final line utilises wingers that stretch the pitch and players that position themselves in the half spaces looking for underlapping runs in behind. Even the FB positioning is narrow and not "on the same line" as the wingers even if it cannot be considered quite as inverted as Guardiola's City

Ty for the recommendation, I'll check it out

@camoulton21 are you still trying to emulate this tactic? I am doing it with Fm21 using Chelsea. I like it really a lot (fantastic results so far) and I am very intrigued in trying to replicate these tactical concepts you listed. 

I have a question (if you are still working on this tactic) what roles do you have for your striker? I am using  a PF because my strikers don't give me many options but I am not convinced.  I would like to try a F9 to create space for the left winger (IF) to get into, but I don't have the right player at the moment. Just checking to see if you tried something.

Thanks!

Edited November 26, 2020 by DNZ-8

[camoulton21]

@DNZ-8 its great to here that you are experiencing fantastic results utilising De Zerbi's methods, what Sassuolo are doing at the minute has all the hallmarks of a fun and innovative FM tactic

10 hours ago, DNZ-8 said:

I have a question (if you are still working on this tactic) what roles do you have for your striker? I am using  a PF because my strikers don't give me many options but I am not convinced.  I would like to try a F9 to create space for the left winger (IF) to get into, but I don't have the right player at the moment. Just checking to see if you tried something.

 

I haven't created a De Zerbi tactic that I'm fully happy with so take this opinion with a pinch of salt. My idea for the ST position would be a False 9 with the 'moves into channels' PI. My reason for this is because the other support duty ST roles 'hold up the ball' and what I was looking for was a ST that received in between the lines and attacked quickly instead. The False 9 role also attacks the box from deep which I think fits well too. 'Moves into channels' was added to try to get the half-space positioning from the screenshot I posted.

I'd love to see what you've created. Chelsea is an interesting choice of team, they've got so many versatile players. I was testing with Barcelona in FM20, I felt that Messi and Griezmann would be good fits for the front 2 players. Both technically good and threats attacking the box from deep, but still given the freedom of movement that they both naturally play with. I'll leave a tactics video by Tifo about Sassuolo below, it's well explained as always and might give you some further ideas.

 

[DNZ-8]

@camoulton21 Thanks for the reply. The idea of the False 9 seems the right one to me as well. As I said I was thinking about it because of the space he creates but the point you are making (attack instantly without holding the ball) is another great reason for choosing a False 9. This should speed up our attacking transitions, which is something I want to improve. I'll give it a try as soon as I can get my hands on the right player. 

I chose Chelsea because I wanted a highly skilled team to test out the tactic. Also, Chelsea have the right players in some key positions for this tactic (fast wingers with flair; hard working and technical CMs, versatile full backs and so on). I managed to buy Ansu Fati from Barcelona and another very complete hardworking midfielder (Gagliardini) and my team was ready to go. As I mentioned the only position I need to improve is the striker one. 

Below is my current tactic screenshot and general performance report. 

The tactic seemed a bit unbalanced to me when I first created it but then it turned out to be extremely defensively solid as well. I think it is because of a combination of the use of the full backs, the split block and generally high work rate/teamwork attributes of my midfielders. 

The two main things I am working on are:

- the two up front (striker and AM) - I would like better movement and combinations between the two.

- I am very intrigued by the way De Zerbi uses his fullbacks. In particular I am trying to find ways to get them to underlap in the half space. I'm trying with traits.

I would appreciate any comment/suggestion.

I'll keep working on these things and look around in the forum to see if someone else is trying to recreate De Zerbi's style. It's a lot of fun!

Thanks again. 

[camoulton21]

6 hours ago, DNZ-8 said:

I chose Chelsea because I wanted a highly skilled team to test out the tactic. Also, Chelsea have the right players in some key positions for this tactic (fast wingers with flair; hard working and technical CMs, versatile full backs and so on). I managed to buy Ansu Fati from Barcelona and another very complete hardworking midfielder (Gagliardini) and my team was ready to go. As I mentioned the only position I need to improve is the striker one. 

 

Have you thought about using Ansu Fatu up front? I think he has some potential to perform well there. I'd also give Werner a try here. He's not really a False 9 (neither is Caputo I guess), but the ST still makes those runs in behind from the half-spaces, his pace and movement might still be an asset.

 

6 hours ago, DNZ-8 said:

- the two up front (striker and AM) - I would like better movement and combinations between the two.

 

Interesting that you placed the front 2 off centre, I guess that's the only way to get the players occupying different vertical channels. Have they not been performing well?

6 hours ago, DNZ-8 said:

- I am very intrigued by the way De Zerbi uses his fullbacks. In particular I am trying to find ways to get them to underlap in the half space. I'm trying with traits.

 

Maybe try using the 'look for underlap' TI to get more forward movement from the FBs. I think there's a video that Rashidi/Bust The Net has made on the subject.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Experienced Defender
YT video removed

[Experienced Defender]

@camoulton21 I had to remove the youtube video from your post, because that kind of external links is not allowed by forum rules. Please keep that in mind in the future 

[DNZ-8]

19 hours ago, camoulton21 said:

Have you thought about using Ansu Fatu up front? I think he has some potential to perform well there. I'd also give Werner a try here. He's not really a False 9 (neither is Caputo I guess), but the ST still makes those runs in behind from the half-spaces, his pace and movement might still be an asset.

This could a great idea, I hadn't thought about it. You are right, in real life Caputo is not a false 9 either, but in terms of simulating (as much as possible) the Sassuolo movements in fm, a false 9 should still be one of the best options. I'll try Ansu Fati. With Werner I tried for a bit but I didn't like the results, maybe if would insist... but some attributes are weak (like decisions, teamwork, flair).

 

Quote

Interesting that you placed the front 2 off centre, I guess that's the only way to get the players occupying different vertical channels. Have they not been performing well?

Yes, that's the main reason for their positioning. The second one is to remain faithful to the original idea of Sassulo where the AMC tends to link up with the right flank and the striker the other one, forming a sort of 4-2-4 during consolidation. It works pretty well for overloading the flanks and also the two combine well just outside the box.  

So, I'm sactisfied with the way they perform but I think they could do better. I am not 100% decided on the AMC role. When I play Harvertz I use him as a Trequartista, when I play Mount I go for an attacking midfielder. With the trequartista I have more of a playmaker that links up with the midfield, with the other option I have more early movements in space. I'll wait to see how a false 9 works in this set up and then settle for a role in the AMC position.

 

Quote

Maybe try using the 'look for underlap' TI to get more forward movement from the FBs. I think there's a video that Rashidi/Bust The Net has made on the subject.

 

 

Yes, sometimes I do use underlaps but I don't see many of them. I think it's difficult because by the time the fullback could make his run internally, the half space is already occupied by other players (typically the MC). so there is no space to run into. I'm not sure I am right, but I think that's one issue. On the other hand I don't want to keep the MCs on defense because I don't want to loose fluidity. I also tried to place the MCs in the DM strata with two inverted wingers. In that case I see many overlaps working well but then you no longer have the atypical fullbacks which is one of the great peculiarities of the Sassuolo tactics. So all considered I guess that what I have now should be good enough.