Inverted wing-back(re-work), following his own principle from goal kick.

[H.N.I.C.]

Hello,

I did not see, this subject before so let's go!

I spent a lot of times, studying Manchester City build up play using the IWB and I feel like during this phase of the game, I don't get the numerical advantage supposedly given.

*Here is a concrete example(ME 2020):

 

The LIWB(29), but my team is supposed to get the ball so why is he proposing a solution on the width ?

Maybe, he could be an option to ask him to act like this, but in the first place it is not this is not the reason why i use this role.

 

*New proposal:

 

The LIWB(3) tuck inside, forming a double-pivot in order to get a numerical advantage in the middle. In that case the MEZ(8) cannot occupy the same slot, so he can make him self available higher on the pick and according on his own role(wider or not).

*If the WR(7) decide to press the CB(6) to hinder the build up play: 

 

*The MEZ(8), opens up to receive the ball:
 

 

The main goal is create dilemma , in the current ME, the pressing works way too well IMO and bringing this RL mechanic could offer another viable possibility from the back.

Don't hesitate to tell me what you think,

Thanks GED FOOTBALL ANALYSIS for the great explanation.

Cheers

NB: This post tend to be a feature request, so if a moderator see the post free to him to move it. thanks

NB2: I think also some mechanics should appears when pairing one iwb with an holding midfielder . During the phase when he is tucking inside(and acting like an extra midfielder) , he should act in the DMCL slot in the mean time the holding midfielder(occupying the DM as default) shifting into to DMCR slot(supposed to be double-pivot after all ). The iwb will no longer be so off-centered and will participate more effectively in the game, whereas today his influence is very weak. Also the holding midfielder will cover more efficiently the right side, and still be a support to recycle possession.As soon as, the iwb decide to attack spaces(like he perfectly does today), the holding midfielder reverts into the DM slot in the mean time.

Edited July 3, 2020 by H.N.I.C.

[zyfon5]

Maybe I'm being dumb here but isn't the final shape you proposed a double pivot with 2 fullbacks push wide with the mezzala and inverted full back swapping places? How is it different than the initial one? And something I'm curious here are you using a 4231 with inverted full back?

[H.N.I.C.]

25 minutes ago, zyfon5 said:

Maybe I'm being dumb here but isn't the final shape you proposed a double pivot with 2 fullbacks push wide with the mezzala and inverted full back swapping places? How is it different than the initial one? And something I'm curious here are you using a 4231 with inverted full back?

I did not even notice to be honest xD , but it is not about shape, but rather space and occupations. You can totally disturb a pressing system, just by few tweaks in your animation. Pep wanted to create a numerical advantage by doing so.

IMO, I don't see the point to use a IWB with a double-pivot. In a 4231, the best use of fullback is provide width. So using a FB, WB, or CWB depending on your animation is enough. 

NB: 433 is the shape, I use for information.

Edited June 29, 2020 by H.N.I.C.

[enigmatic]

Looks a lot easier to play out the back with the ME version than your alternative...

 

[I'm more worried about the opposition winger defending in that screenshot...]

[H.N.I.C.]

3 minutes ago, enigmatic said:

Looks a lot easier to play out the back with the ME version than your alternative...

 

[I'm more worried about the opposition winger defending in that screenshot...]

I think it all depends on the tactics used by the opposition. I used to play FM friends of mine, they all pressing very hard(Marking specific also) and tend to bring as many player they can to hinder the build play.

They can show up like this:

To force you, to take a long kick to create a scramble to win the ball in the air.
They have tall defenders and midlfielders, so they regain the possession quickly and so on.

NB: If you look up quickly, what I show makes sense when the oppostion team does not want to let me playing from the back. Against the AI, sometimes he does some formations to challenge me(sometimes it works and I see the limit of the current ME), but nothing comparable to an human can do.

[zyfon5]

1 hour ago, H.N.I.C. said:

I did not even notice to be honest xD , but it is not about shape, but rather space and occupations. You can totally disturb a pressing system, just by few tweaks in your animation. Pep wanted to create a numerical advantage by doing so.

IMO, I don't see the point to use a IWB with a double-pivot. In a 4231, the best use of fullback is provide width. So using a FB, WB, or CWB depending on your animation is enough. 

NB: 433 is the shape, I use for information.

I use an inverted wing back in my previous team. My focus is to maintain a diamond in the midfield so that I can always outnumber the opposition in the middle with a 4123(in game) as a base formation. The full backs will stretch wide like usual in the initial build up phase but the inverted wingback will move narrow when the ball is passed to the centre backs from what I can observe. Ya no point playing an inverted full back in a double pivot system most of the time just want to make sure that I don't miss out something. But definitely agree the movement of the inverted full back can be reworked a bit but it can still serve it's purpose for now.

[h3nrique_SEP]

a way to do similiar to Man City's build up is to don't use play out of defense and tell your GK to distribute to the DM

[H.N.I.C.]

56 minutes ago, h3nrique_SEP said:

a way to do similiar to Man City's build up is to don't use play out of defense and tell your GK to distribute to the DM

Absolutely true!

This is the alternative I tend to use to when the opposition put too much pressure.

But I would be like to shirt-circuit this pressing on my own with a tactical aspect, and not counting on RNG.

[H.N.I.C.]

Hello, 
 

Sorry for posting it in the wrong place,  I dunno if it possible to move but here it is:

 

[Kyle Brown]

Reviewed so locked.