Breaking down the opposition

[ReadingFan82]

Hello everyone, hope someone could be of use for me with an issue I'm currently having on my Sunderland save.

Recently I've been finding it very hard for my team to create clear cut chances and score a lot a whole lot of goals against opponents, essentially finding it difficult to break down teams who seek to come away to my place and try and hit on the counter attack. Even in games that I have just won its typically a set piece like a corner or a free kick that gets me over the line and I still have issues being able to break down the opposition from open play, with the last screenshot showing that out of my 31 league goals ten have came from corners alone, the most of any team in the league, with another 3 goals coming from indirect free kicks. The last screenshot is actually quite a good summary for how my team play, how much possession, how many passes, shots, etc. Just for my points sake ignore the Shrewsbury away result, genuinely have no idea where all of those goals came from all of sudden. Its also good to mention that without that game, which came out of the blue, I'd have scored 24 goals in 18 games instead of 31 in 19, so just bare that in mind.

Attached below are a few screenshots, the first being of my team and my current set up for it, the second being are results minus a 0-0 draw at home to lower half of the table Walsall, my most recent game and 4 games that serve as an example for what I mean when I talk about not being able to create chances that are actually good and using the lot of the ball I have well. Those games were at home to 5th placed Luton, 14th placed Walsall, 17th placed Cambridge from the league below in the cup and Liverpool's under 23's. In all of those games I had a fair bit more of the ball than my opponent, had more shots on and off target than my opponent but only had a single clear cut chance in 2 of those games, not having any in either of the other 2. I basically just want to know if there is anything I can do (instructions, player roles, etc.) that can try and break through opposition defenses a bit better to allow me to get better chances and more goals

I do wonder if it could be that the quality of player I have might not be good enough to try and play this style of football? Maybe if I had a better DLP things would be a bit different? I also had a game vs Accrington where I did win 3-0 but my striker, Healey, had 4 clear cut chances and didn't score once. While this is an exception of the norm where my team did actually create a lot of chance, it could also show that my ST might not be up to scratch, and in a system that kinda relies on making the most of a few chances a better striker could be of huge benefit.

One last thing to note is that defensively I'm quite sound and good, somewhat shown by the lack of chances given away in these select few games, and I'm second for clean sheets in my league and have conceded the least goals, so the issue isn't really defensively. I'm quite happy generally with this set up. I'd be more concerned if I was shipping loads of goals, that would be more of a problem for me, but its still frustrating nonetheless. Just so you know I have no individual player instructions on any of my players.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[warlock]

32 minutes ago, ReadingFan82 said:

finding it difficult to break down teams who seek to come away to my place and try and hit on the counter attack

Well, yes. You're top of the table, generally one of the strongest teams in the division, so you can expect to face the parked bus often. But your tactic is cautious, safety-first, slow-and-steady - lower tempo, shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box. You're giving the AI all the time in the world to get into defensive shape and organise the troops. I'd look to be a bit more incisive - up the tempo, lengthen the passing, take a few more risks (although maybe not all at once!)

Second, the AI will happily sit back and pass the ball around in defence. And you're letting them. I'd at least use the split block on the front 3 (or front 3 plus mez) to try to force a mistake higher up.

It's a question of risk and reward, and you're not taking any risks.

Edit to add: Just looked through your results and they don't look at all bad to me. Yes, there's a few 1-0 wins and a few draws, but there's also quite a lot of games where you put 2 or more past the AI. So you can probably be a bit more adventurous, but I wouldn't get too greedy 

Edited August 4, 2020 by warlock

[ReadingFan82]

19 minutes ago, warlock said:

Well, yes. You're top of the table, generally one of the strongest teams in the division, so you can expect to face the parked bus often. But your tactic is cautious, safety-first, slow-and-steady - lower tempo, shorter passing, play out of defence, work ball into box. You're giving the AI all the time in the world to get into defensive shape and organise the troops. I'd look to be a bit more incisive - up the tempo, lengthen the passing, take a few more risks (although maybe not all at once!)

Second, the AI will happily sit back and pass the ball around in defence. And you're letting them. I'd at least use the split block on the front 3 (or front 3 plus mez) to try to force a mistake higher up.

It's a question of risk and reward, and you're not taking any risks.

Edit to add: Just looked through your results and they don't look at all bad to me. Yes, there's a few 1-0 wins and a few draws, but there's also quite a lot of games where you put 2 or more past the AI. So you can probably be a bit more adventurous, but I wouldn't get too greedy 

Hello mate, thank you for such a quick response

When I made said tactic I wanted to focus on stability first to try and sure up my defense that had previously been quite leaky last season, hence the focus on being quite cautious and safe on this one. In the entirety of last season my team kept 19 clean sheets out of 46 in the league, and so far in this one I'm currently on 13 in 20 games, so on track to get far more than I did last season.

What I'm basically trying to say is defensively it seems to work, going forward, not so much, as you said.

Upping the tempo and passing length is definitely a shout. Could putting up the defensive lines help as well as maybe putting counter and/or counter press on also? Sorry if I haven't really understood what a split block is, I'm still quite new to all of this. Could putting things like run at defense and be more expressive help as well possibly?

Oh yeah of course. I do like to complain though, so I've found something to complain about haha. All in all things are going quite well, not perfect, but not far of at all either. I'll definitely give it a go being a little bit more adventurous in the next few games. 

Thanks for the help mate

[warlock]

Split block is an alternative to having the whole team closing down more. You apply it to the players nearest the opposition - so in the 4141dm, the striker and the two wide forwards, and - optionally - to your most advanced CM. And you can vary the aggressiveness - at one level have those players close down more; to be more aggressive add close down more and add hard tackling. I usually just add more closing down. But for it to be effective, you need players with decent stamina and workrate.

Added to that, upping the line of engagement can make the press more effective, but that alone stretches your team out vertically so you'd usually add a higher defensive line. But that can leave you vulnerable to balls over the top unless you have defenders that are quick, or have good anticipation. As you can see, it's all pros and cons, swings and roundabouts, checks and balances, risk and reward...

Anyway, if I were playing with your tactic, as a first step I'd move tempo back to normal, and add 'close down more' to the front 3 and see what that produces.

[dunk105]

8 hours ago, warlock said:

Added to that, upping the line of engagement can make the press more effective, but that alone stretches your team out vertically so you'd usually add a higher defensive line. But that can leave you vulnerable to balls over the top unless you have defenders that are quick, or have good anticipation. As you can see, it's all pros and cons, swings and roundabouts, checks and balances, risk and reward...

 

Apologies if off topic but saw online a neat tip to stop the long balls. Like the OP I face a similar issue with packed defenses and conceding to long balls. The solution is to switch off "Prevent GK short distribution", then most of the time the keeper will go short and then your press can go to work. Switching it off seems counter intuitive to pressing high up but it really does stop you getting caught on the break, and also allows your pressing players more opportunities to win the ball higher up the field from defenders.

[ReadingFan82]

13 hours ago, warlock said:

Split block is an alternative to having the whole team closing down more. You apply it to the players nearest the opposition - so in the 4141dm, the striker and the two wide forwards, and - optionally - to your most advanced CM. And you can vary the aggressiveness - at one level have those players close down more; to be more aggressive add close down more and add hard tackling. I usually just add more closing down. But for it to be effective, you need players with decent stamina and workrate.

Added to that, upping the line of engagement can make the press more effective, but that alone stretches your team out vertically so you'd usually add a higher defensive line. But that can leave you vulnerable to balls over the top unless you have defenders that are quick, or have good anticipation. As you can see, it's all pros and cons, swings and roundabouts, checks and balances, risk and reward...

Anyway, if I were playing with your tactic, as a first step I'd move tempo back to normal, and add 'close down more' to the front 3 and see what that produces.

Ah okay thanks for explaining that to me, I'll definitely give it a go in my next few games with just adding close down more. The players I have seem like they have the stamina and the work rate to do it so I'll just see how it goes.

Yeah a bit worried about leaving tons of space in behind my defense because I know my defenders aren't too rapid. Might give the higher line of engagement with a standard defensive line a go just to see if it'll work without leaving too much space for the opposition to exploit. I'll just have to try and weight it all up when I'm in the game.

I've put close down more on my front 3 and I'll up the tempo also. 

Thanks for the help again mate

[ReadingFan82]

5 hours ago, dunk105 said:

Apologies if off topic but saw online a neat tip to stop the long balls. Like the OP I face a similar issue with packed defenses and conceding to long balls. The solution is to switch off "Prevent GK short distribution", then most of the time the keeper will go short and then your press can go to work. Switching it off seems counter intuitive to pressing high up but it really does stop you getting caught on the break, and also allows your pressing players more opportunities to win the ball higher up the field from defenders.

Ah yeah that seems like it makes a lot of sense I'll definitely give that a go at some point soon. I don't actually have a lot prevent short gk distribution on at the minute anyway but helps just so I know not to have it on for the future.

Thank you very much for the help mate