Pirates having A headache...

[BlueWolf]

Just because some pirates had issues doesnt mean the DRM was a success.

I know a handful of people who brought the game and couldnt get it activated, so they downloaded the game and it works fine (patched and everything). So they brought a legal copy of the agme which is now sat on the shelf unplayable, but a illegal copy ran fine lol, Its also worth noting that fully cracked versions appeared within hours of the patch being released on the 13th

Altho most have now managed to validate their legal copy and switched to that.

I agree its a good thing taht maybe some people who would have downlaoded it have been put off, but this yeah it seems taht with the problems its encouraged more to turn to illegal methods to get their fix.

Next year should be loads better tho after mistakes are learned from

[weezathon]

Glad that they are suffering, pay the money like evryone else and you wont moan! Idiots

[Whatever FFS]

IP must be respected!

Is the Ip of the various leagues / names of copyrighted players respected by Si? Or do they leave a nice door open to fans via the .LNC file trick?

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when users use a 'real fixtures' file.

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when you have fans putting in club and league logos badges into the game.

I know, I know...SI havn't sold a product that directly has such things in. However, they do leave a nice door open on various fronts with the way the files are structured.

Just before everyone moans at piracy and IP violations - just remember you probably violate loads of these things with the most innocent purposes- no one is whiter than white.

Great post JonPaulWild, it is not surprising that the sycophants did not want to respond to this illustration of the hypocrisy demonstrated by both SI and its lynch mob.

Just because some pirates had issues doesnt mean the DRM was a success.

I know a handful of people who brought the game and couldnt get it activated, so they downloaded the game and it works fine (patched and everything). So they brought a legal copy of the agme which is now sat on the shelf unplayable, but a illegal copy ran fine lol, Its also worth noting that fully cracked versions appeared within hours of the patch being released on the 13th

Altho most have now managed to validate their legal copy and switched to that.

I agree its a good thing taht maybe some people who would have downlaoded it have been put off, but this yeah it seems taht with the problems its encouraged more to turn to illegal methods to get their fix.

Next year should be loads better tho after mistakes are learned from

What is going to be more interesting is the number of people who purchased this iteration of FM who will not next year as a result of the day one DRM car wreck. I especially mean those customers that you made reference to who learnt how to get a copy off of bit torrent as a result of the activation fiasco.

[ManchesterUnitedismylife]

tbh, the pirated version doesnt have problems according to my friends, just that u cant go on holidays

[DaGringoKilla]

tbh if you put as much efort into the actual game as you did on the piracy stuff the game woudnt be as glitch filled as it is now and people would actually buy the game

[Deathcab for Cutie]

Taken from some private site Football Manager (not FIFA Manager) torrents:

My personal favourite:

"RELOADED: SOS! Crack this the proper way! People wanna play the game, but they can't because they're f*ckin fired after a year! Only you can save us!"

"RELOADED please make a proper, thousands of people are waiting for it."

"crack not working for me, version mismatch"

"RELOADED please crack it proper (L)"

"You cant go on holiday in this release (a trigger from SI) and there has been rumored about you being sackd too... Just save alot and there should be a new crack before you get sacked, there's probably also some other bugs in this (remember the fm08 where the worst teams qualified for the euros and crap lik that ? )"

"This is ********.No holiday, you get sacked after one year etc...its like they added stuff from full game to demo,and then cracked it.No player pictures, not even generated 3d faces.Nothing.I hope that someone will make a proper release."

There was a few saying they were downloading because they couldnt activate aswell, which is interesting.

funny....even funnier was the large number of people pleading here for help

[GillsMan]

You wanted people to stop calling them what they are and start calling them what they aren't. So, I was just pointing out that there is a difference.

If someone steals your car then he's a thief, because now you no longer have the car but he does instead.

If someone looks very carefully at your car and is then able to create a perfect copy and drive away in it, then he's a pirate. You both have a car now, but the car manufacturer will be angry because they will argue that if he hadn't made a copy of your car (for which they own the copyright) then he might have bought a car from them instead.

In reality, if he couldn't have made a copy he might just as well have simply continued to ride his bike instead, but that's a discussion for another day...

Another way of looking at it is, if someone walks into a shop and takes a game without paying for it, he's a thief. If someone goes onto the Internet and d/l a game without paying for it, he's a thief.

It's semantics tbh, whether you're comfortable with the phrase "thief" is irrelevant, the fact is it's illegal and that's all that matters tbh.

[Diego_Werderdona]

I like how many people posting in this thread have "friends" who have pirated, but who themselves apparently wouldn't dream of it

[Šećer Babo]

I found this on one torrent site.

Look at the number of seeders and leechers

FOOTBALL_MANAGER_2009 2.29 GiB 2688 6737

jaykay1975 at 2008-11-21 23:12 CET:

ok people, ive actually got the game working now, follow these instructions exactly how it says below.

1. install the game.

2 - 6 blah, blah, blah

7. launch the game and enjoy

DJ-DOTCOM1 at 2008-11-22 04:26 CET:

this game belong in the bin totaly broken and the crack

gubbins at 2008-11-22 07:35 CET:

I dunno what all you people are whinging about. 36 pages of this ****! Install the game. Download the latest 9.1 patch from S.I. Download the other installer from here as has been mentioned. Install the gane. Do NOT run the game. Disconnect from the internet. Patch the game. Install the crack. Play the game. How hard is that? ****ing cretins.

NiceGirII at 2008-11-22 08:36 CET:

Nice flash Girl sexy --http://www.youtube-com-watch-gdab5t7k5.on.lc

Subject_117 at 2008-11-22 10:29 CET:

krispo.R, there are some compatibility issues with the installer for the game and Windows XP/Vista 64-bit. Do the following:

1. Mount the fm2009-tl.iso file with Daemon Tools and, using Windows Explorer, browse the contents of that .iso file [Daemon Tools will mount the iso as a virtual drive (D:), (E:), (F:), etc]

2. Right-click 'setup.exe' --> Properties --> Compatibility tab --> tick ?Run this program in compatibility mode for? --> select ?Windows XP? --> click OK

3. Double-click that very same 'setup.exe' file to start install.

LoffeLeffe at 2008-11-22 10:54 CET:

this works perfectly, no doubt

Subject_117 at 2008-11-22 11:02 CET:

@ DonSimon678, that error seems to be Steam related... did you choose the 'activate the game via Steam' option by mistake when you first installed the game?

If so... Log onto Steam, go into 'My Games', right-click Football Manager 2009 in Steam, and click 'Delete all local game content'. Then use the instructions I gave you before to do a clean uninstall of FM09 before installing the game again using the phone option.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36

There's 36 pages of this It's very funny, but it seams that it's working good for them, except for the hollyday "bug". But the funny thing is that some, or a good number of people can't even follow the instructions that come with this file, and having problems of all sorts.

Very funny

[homerjnick]

I wouldn't post the instructions in here mate but the comments are funny.

I am delighted that they are having such a hard time!!!

[canvey!!]

The funny thing is that they believe they are entitled to a perfectly cracked copy of the game.

[DJ]

When I was in the army, I learned about cryptography. The idea of that is not to keep info from the opponent forever (because given time, any code can be cracked, bar a few very involved and hardly practical methods like 'one time pads'), but to keep the info from them as long as possible. Security is measured in time, rather than in crackability.

The older the info, the less useful it is.

I wonder if that makes some sort of anology with DRM. I could imagine that the longer it takes the pirates to put a working version out there, the more 'casual' downloaders cut their 'loss' and buy it rather than not having the game at all.

Don't forget that the urge to have the game immediately is a very, very important factor: see all the outrage on here because people were not able to play the game until a day after release.

Those who are willing to wait longer are probably not very big fans anyway, so the percentage amongst them who would have bought the game is smaller.

In that light, DRM or whatever protective measures SI have implemented, seem to have been succesful. Scouring some sites that I shall not honour by mentioning their names, I rarely see the sort of despair that surrounds FM09. It may be crackable, but more difficultly than other games, which will turn quite a few potential downloaders into paying customers.

At the end of the day, only SEGA and SI will have the answer to the question 'how succesful are our protective measures', because only they can see how much copies are actually sold.

[Šećer Babo]

I wouldn't post the instructions in here mate but the comments are funny.

I am delighted that they are having such a hard time!!!

I didn't post the adress of it, so you can't find if. It's useless even for most of the people who are reading it there and wont to download it. 36 pages, and this one is probably most constructive one

[JonPaulWild]

IP must be respected!

Is the Ip of the various leagues / names of copyrighted players respected by Si? Or do they leave a nice door open to fans via the .LNC file trick?

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when users use a 'real fixtures' file.

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when you have fans putting in club and league logos badges into the game.

I know, I know...SI havn't sold a product that directly has such things in. However, they do leave a nice door open on various fronts with the way the files are structured.

Just before everyone moans at piracy and IP violations - just remember you probably violate loads of these things with the most innocent purposes- no one is whiter than white.

I would love a SI or Sega reply to my post.

[VDVaart]

I know a couple of people who are playing a downloaded version freely without problems. I don't blame people at all anymore for downloading games from certain companies. I will never buy a Ubi product again after the farce of Far Cry 2.

Infact the only 2 games companies i have any faith left for are SI and Creative Assembly, those 2 deserve every penny they get!

Yeah me too, they are past 1st season and into 2nd no problem at all.

[Neil Brock]

Sorry guys, but not a great idea talking about 'Yarrrrring' pirates on this forum, be careful what you say or post please.

[MrPompey]

Tell me about, took my game back today afer a seriously dissapointing week of no gaming :|

silly billy didn't realise it was the activation and not the game. The fact you are posting here suggests yo do have a version

[MrPompey]

When I was in the army, I learned about cryptography. The idea of that is not to keep info from the opponent forever (because given time, any code can be cracked, bar a few very involved and hardly practical methods like 'one time pads'), but to keep the info from them as long as possible. Security is measured in time, rather than in crackability.

The older the info, the less useful it is.

I wonder if that makes some sort of anology with DRM. I could imagine that the longer it takes the pirates to put a working version out there, the more 'casual' downloaders cut their 'loss' and buy it rather than not having the game at all.

Don't forget that the urge to have the game immediately is a very, very important factor: see all the outrage on here because people were not able to play the game until a day after release.

Those who are willing to wait longer are probably not very big fans anyway, so the percentage amongst them who would have bought the game is smaller.

In that light, DRM or whatever protective measures SI have implemented, seem to have been succesful. Scouring some sites that I shall not honour by mentioning their names, I rarely see the sort of despair that surrounds FM09. It may be crackable, but more difficultly than other games, which will turn quite a few potential downloaders into paying customers.

At the end of the day, only SEGA and SI will have the answer to the question 'how succesful are our protective measures', because only they can see how much copies are actually sold.

A very good post. In this instance you are right. We all know that FM09 will reduce in price eventually and become more attractive to some rather than a gamble on a crack that results in issues. Half life and steam had all these issues first time around, unfortunately this is ours.

Ideally more sales means a better FM10?

[GerdMuller]

Funny (or not) thing is the pirates seem to have more problems with the steam activation than with cracking the game itself. Woudl be good if the same wouldnt be right for legal players :-(

[TheOriginalJez]

IP must be respected!

Is the Ip of the various leagues / names of copyrighted players respected by Si? Or do they leave a nice door open to fans via the .LNC file trick?

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when users use a 'real fixtures' file.

Is the IP of the league/clubs respected when you have fans putting in club and league logos badges into the game.

1. You cannot copyright a name. You can trademark a trading name or company name, such as a leagues, but you cannot copyright a persons birth name. If the name is obviously used to refer to that person they can request it be removed - as Ollie Kahn has done, as is their right but if you're called 'Jon Paul Wild' and someone writes a book about 'Jon Paul Wild' unless you can prove it's about you and you have reasonable grounds to be offended at the work then tough sh*t. The issue of players being removed en masse as with some of the things it's an issue where all players/staff are under contract to oblige to club rules and the club has licensed things exclusively - in this case it's the same as OK, and images or likeness does require a license/permission.

2. There is no immediate intellectual property in a fixture list afaik. Unless you can show me otherwise where the copyright of a filled in calendar has been upheld.

all the others you have a point, but as there's no money loss involved I doubt anyone really cares.

[MrPompey]

1. You cannot copyright a name. You can trademark a trading name or company name, such as a leagues, but you cannot copyright a persons birth name. If the name is obviously used to refer to that person they can request it be removed - as Ollie Kahn has done, as is their right but if you're called 'Jon Paul Wild' and someone writes a book about 'Jon Paul Wild' unless you can prove it's about you and you have reasonable grounds to be offended at the work then tough sh*t. The issue of players being removed en masse as with some of the things it's an issue where all players/staff are under contract to oblige to club rules and the club has licensed things exclusively - in this case it's the same as OK, and images or likeness does require a license/permission.

2. There is no immediate intellectual property in a fixture list afaik. Unless you can show me otherwise where the copyright of a filled in calendar has been upheld.

all the others you have a point, but as there's no money loss involved I doubt anyone really cares.

Wrong, wrong, wrong

1. Cannot copyright a game? WRONG, you can. Latest example, You noticed the makers of Scrabble enforcing Facebook remove scrabulous from their website. Do you know what a a copyright sign is, have a look at some games

2. No intellectual property rights on a fixture list? WRONG. Have look at the bbc sport site then have a look at the fixtures, you'll see a legal warning about reproducing the list

Please have a think about what you post

[Nils]

I wonder if that makes some sort of anology with DRM. I could imagine that the longer it takes the pirates to put a working version out there, the more 'casual' downloaders cut their 'loss' and buy it rather than not having the game at all.

In that light, DRM or whatever protective measures SI have implemented, seem to have been succesful. Scouring some sites that I shall not honour by mentioning their names, I rarely see the sort of despair that surrounds FM09. It may be crackable, but more difficultly than other games, which will turn quite a few potential downloaders into paying customers.

The problem is, it doesn't take them long at all. Even the best protection takes less than a week to crack, far away from taking long enough to get people to buy the game instead. Many famous games which had the supposedly great DRM where cracked before the game even hit the shelves. That's why you see so many people complaining about DRM at various gaming sites. Those who pirate the game usually have little trouble, while it's a pain in the ass for many regular users. Of course there will be people who have trouble with a pirated version, but then again, the same is true for those who buy the game, so that's really a mood point anyway.

As long as it isn't capable of keeping the game uncrackable for a longer period of time, while leading to no problems to those who bought the game legally, DRM won't be a success.

I really doubt that anyone who downloaded a game and finds it not working properly will suddenly buy the game, it's more the opposite actually. For one, if he was all that interested in buying it, he would have done so. Playing a game that isn't working properly turns people off, it doesn't make them more interested in buying it. For all the person knows, it may be the game itself which is buggy, not some protection against piracy. Finding a board full of people having trouble with the game after buying it, isn't going to change that opinion either.

Not that SI should leave their games unprotected or let people pirate their games, but I wouldn't expect DRM to help with sells in any way, shape or form.

[x42bn6]

Wrong, wrong, wrong

1. Cannot copyright a game? WRONG, you can. Latest example, You noticed the makers of Scrabble enforcing Facebook remove scrabulous from their website. Do you know what a a copyright sign is, have a look at some games

No, Scrabble are enforcing their rights on a game which infringed their trademarks.

The purpose of a copyright is to protect works which have a tangible form - i.e. pictures, text, video, audio, etc.

A trademark, on the other hand, is to protect words, phrases and logos which identify certain products.

The Scrabbulous issue was because they used a name very close to the word "Scrabble" which Hasbro owns the trademarks to. They might even have issues with the actual game which was a blatant rip of Scrabble, which could violate its copyright. But the former was definite - it could mislead people that Scrabbulous was Hasbro's product.

2. No intellectual property rights on a fixture list? WRONG. Have look at the bbc sport site then have a look at the fixtures, you'll see a legal warning about reproducing the list

Please have a think about what you post

It depends. If there's "significant creative input" (wrong phrase, someone else will know the correct one), then yes, it can be copyrighted. However, if it's simply the Premiership table, then you can't - data can't be copyrighted without any form of "creativity". Which is why nobody can copyright, say, "1,1,2,3,5,8,..." as it's just that - data.

For example, I think Nielsen's ratings are based on geographic location or something, and that is copyrighted - but based on raw data, anyone is free to generate their own method of sorting or sifting.

[DJ]

<see Nils' post>

Moin moin

I think there is definitely some sort of a sliding scale ranging from hard core pirates who will buy nothing up to totally honest people who will steal nothing.

The harder you make it to crack the game, every hour you win, you will have more people who'd rather buy (or give up altogether) than steal.

In order to be succesful, this must outweigh the number of people who would rather steal (or give up altogether) every hour because of the issues that DRM brings.

We are in no position, I think, to estimate who is winning, but I do observe that normally cracked games do not get the number of 'help, it won't work' posts on the 'arrr' sites that FM09 does.**

I, therefore, am optimistic about SEGA/SI having more gain than loss from DRM. Which is good news, because this was only the first attempt and we can safely assume that they'll get it more right next time around.

** I know anecdotical evidence is in reality no evidence at all, but I personally had no issues whatsoever. Install, patch, activate, play. Not a single hitch. I even got my installcode right on the first attempt

[Äktsjon Männ]

A few people will buy if they can't get the cracked version to work (I know at least one from a forum I post on who couldn't run it, said sod this and ordered the legal copy so I'm sure there's others as well). A few people will have returned FM 09 or will not buy FM 2010 because of the authentication issues. Whether the DRM gained a few sales we cannot know. What we do know however is that the release day meltdown hurt SI/SEGA's reputation and may have lost them a few future sales. Was it worth it? It's for themselves to decide.

[JonPaulWild]

1. You cannot copyright a name. You can trademark a trading name or company name, such as a leagues, but you cannot copyright a persons birth name. If the name is obviously used to refer to that person they can request it be removed - as Ollie Kahn has done, as is their right but if you're called 'Jon Paul Wild' and someone writes a book about 'Jon Paul Wild' unless you can prove it's about you and you have reasonable grounds to be offended at the work then tough sh*t. The issue of players being removed en masse as with some of the things it's an issue where all players/staff are under contract to oblige to club rules and the club has licensed things exclusively - in this case it's the same as OK, and images or likeness does require a license/permission.

2. There is no immediate intellectual property in a fixture list afaik. Unless you can show me otherwise where the copyright of a filled in calendar has been upheld.

all the others you have a point, but as there's no money loss involved I doubt anyone really cares.

The real premier league fixture list is copyrighted.

[treble_yell_:-)]

The real premier league fixture list is copyrighted.

So your argument is that a developer should be liable for what the end user does with the software post purchase ? Personally i feel your clutching at straws.

The outcry from gamers if any developer tried to police what the gamer did after purchase / tried to stop adding mods/ creating mods for PC games would far outweigh even the white noise DRM generates.

[pelicanstuff]

So your argument is that a developer should be liable for what the end user does with the software post purchase ? Personally i feel your clutching at straws.

The outcry from gamers if any developer tried to police what the gamer did after purchase / tried to stop adding mods/ creating mods for PC games would far outweigh even the white noise DRM generates.

Indeed, by extension of that argument the makers of p2p software/bittorrent clients would be seen as responsible for piracy, which brings this thread neatly full circle.

[tvpro]

Piracy isn't theft.

[Bearsuit]

My pirate copy works fine.

[GerdMuller]

Piracy shouldnt be Nr. 1 concern when making a game, it should be costumer happiness...

[JonPaulWild]

So your argument is that a developer should be liable for what the end user does with the software post purchase ? Personally i feel your clutching at straws.

The outcry from gamers if any developer tried to police what the gamer did after purchase / tried to stop adding mods/ creating mods for PC games would far outweigh even the white noise DRM generates.

No I'm not. I fully support modding - infact I'm showing how messed up the logic is of fans, developers and publishers. I

However, SI have for years now been unable to have certain names, trademarks or logos into the game. They have however implemented the .LNC trick that purposely allows for ease of name implementation by removing and changing a few files. As well as the real fixtures trick - all these could be locked out from being changed by people - the same people who think it's evil for pirates to pirate FM 2009.

However, they seem to be fine with fans using a file that implements the premier league fixture list, or the inclusion of real names within the game - without a penny going to the trademark / copyright owners.

SI could easily prevent it and uphold the IP rights of the Premier League. But if fans lend, resell or distribute FM 2009 then OMG Miles goes ballistic....

Whole thing is hypocritical.

[orion318]

Indeed, and it is astoundingly easy to find IP addresses that are uploading. If ISPs were forced to be more helpful in terms of companies going after their customers, these 'well-known places' would not be very useful for pirates anymore.

TBH if this were to happen those ISP would go out of business, as long with a lot of other companies.

Lets be honest no one needs 8, 10, 24 Mb/s connections to check their email and chat in msn. (although internet content is now much larger with youtube and the sort)

Almost no one needs 80 dvd "cakes" to save their personal files.

etc

There are a lot of legal services that exist because of file downloading from the internet.

And the legal frame of the matter in many european countries has favoured the "casual" pirate in recent trials.

I honestly think that the solution to piracy in terms of financial freedom for companies is finding other sources of revenue. Many musical artists have started going this way, and tv shows as well providing free access on their web sites to the episodes right after they debut on tv.

As for games SI themselves have started putting ads in the game, and this might in the long term allow for a cheaper game and thus more people buying it. If it goes down from the current 50€ to around 20€ then many people will buy it over pirating it.

That and making the retail price more attractive than the pirated one. Offers, specials etc.

[pelicanstuff]

TBH if this were to happen those ISP would go out of business, as long with a lot of other companies.

Lets be honest no one needs 8, 10, 24 Mb/s connections to check their email and chat in msn. (although internet content is now much larger with youtube and the sort)

Almost no one needs 80 dvd "cakes" to save their personal files.

etc

There are a lot of legal services that exist because of file downloading from the internet.

And the legal frame of the matter in many european countries has favoured the "casual" pirate in recent trials.

There's a lot of talk about compelling the ISPs to do more, and if they are compelled, they can't really lose market share as all are likely to be compelled equally. It is very easy on p2p/torrent software for copyright holders to see exactly which IPs are uploading/downloading which copyrighted material when, it's not just a case of stabbing in the dark and hoping you hit something illegal.

[thempesth]

good for the crackers:P its better to buy the game than waiting for a cracked/shitty version

[GerdMuller]

I am waiting for the game i bought at the moment :-(

[mcleanrichard]

pirates really are sucdh low lifes

[TheOriginalJez]

TBH if this were to happen those ISP would go out of business, as long with a lot of other companies.

Lets be honest no one needs 8, 10, 24 Mb/s connections to check their email and chat in msn. (although internet content is now much larger with youtube and the sort)

Almost no one needs 80 dvd "cakes" to save their personal files.

etc

There are a lot of legal services that exist because of file downloading from the internet.

And the legal frame of the matter in many european countries has favoured the "casual" pirate in recent trials.

I honestly think that the solution to piracy in terms of financial freedom for companies is finding other sources of revenue. Many musical artists have started going this way, and tv shows as well providing free access on their web sites to the episodes right after they debut on tv.

As for games SI themselves have started putting ads in the game, and this might in the long term allow for a cheaper game and thus more people buying it. If it goes down from the current 50€ to around 20€ then many people will buy it over pirating it.

That and making the retail price more attractive than the pirated one. Offers, specials etc.

There are privacy laws that require higher powers to over rule than ISPs or publishers. They cannot just monitor everything their users download without notifying said users or getting powers granted by courts or those otherwise permitted to overrule privacy laws.

[GillsMan]

SI could easily prevent it and uphold the IP rights of the Premier League. But if fans lend, resell or distribute FM 2009 then OMG Miles goes ballistic....

Whole thing is hypocritical.

You really can't see the difference?

[pelicanstuff]

There are privacy laws that require higher powers to over rule than ISPs or publishers. They cannot just monitor everything their users download without notifying said users or getting powers granted by courts or those otherwise permitted to overrule privacy laws.

They don't need to. The copyright holders can do the monitoring perfectly easy and legally, as can anyone with an internet connection and p2p/torrent software.

[Jonfun1980]

Its not a matter of expesive for me! its just i can't get the game, let me explain, i live in portugal untill 2007 and i always buy and play the game but since that date i live in venezuela where you dont have the chance to buy anithing online out of the country whithout ask autorizacion and wait endless time so the CADIVI (an institucion that control the foreing currecy in the country) gives you a dollar cuppon on your credit card to buy something. I admit! i have been playin a pirate version of fm2008 and i try the demo of 2009 but is not the same that the real original game, so for me its craked versions or nothing.

Poor guy can't even get the game and he gets banned.

[Sad Git]

If DRM has beaten the pirates, does that mean computer software will get cheaper?

HA!!!

[BlueWolf]

The time it takes to crack is never an issue

FM has always gone gold well iin advance of release, and as I stated before, fully cracked versions appeared on Sites on the 13th, a full day before official release.

The only thing in the past that may have put people off downlaoding a cracked version, was the release day patch, which would need to be cracked again befor ethey could play, but even thats not a problem anymore.

I know more people who won't buy the game until its had 2/3 patches as its been pretty buggy in the last few versions, altho I do think 09 is the best so far on day of release. So saying people who won't buy ti day of release are not hardcore is just stupid, some hardcore fans willw ait until the game is 100% before commiting instead of starting a stop gap game befor ehvaing to restrat after a few weeks to get the full expierence after numerous patches

[Hamselv]

Another way of looking at it is, if someone walks into a shop and takes a game without paying for it, he's a thief. If someone goes onto the Internet and d/l a game without paying for it, he's a thief.

It's semantics tbh, whether you're comfortable with the phrase "thief" is irrelevant, the fact is it's illegal and that's all that matters tbh.

As I said in a post just before the one you quoted, I agree that copyright infringement is just as bad as stealing, but it's just not the same.

Your example still involves one person removing a physical item from someone else, and another person creating a copy of an item without removing it from whoever has the item. That's the exact same example as I used and that's why a pirate isn't a thief.

I agree that it's pretty much semantics but if there's a right term and a wrong term then why not use the right one?

[DJ]

some hardcore fans willw ait until the game is 100%

Those very few users don't make the difference. Think big, think statistics.

[Šećer Babo]

If DRM has beaten the pirates, does that mean computer software will get cheaper?

HA!!!

But it didin't beat the pirates. They were playing long before the paying customers. What you often see with problems they have are just idiots who cant follow instructions that come with the crack. The other people were playing long before i could activate my game.

[TheOriginalJez]

As I said in a post just before the one you quoted, I agree that copyright infringement is just as bad as stealing, but it's just not the same.

Your example still involves one person removing a physical item from someone else, and another person creating a copy of an item without removing it from whoever has the item. That's the exact same example as I used and that's why a pirate isn't a thief.

I agree that it's pretty much semantics but if there's a right term and a wrong term then why not use the right one?

I'm sorry but you're so far off base. It IS stealing to the letter of the law.

[Up_The_Terriers]

Piracy isn't theft.

Really?

So if you had written a book and I walked into your place, copied it and published it in such a way you received vastly reduced royalties from it's distribution, you wouldn't try and take any action against me for removing your right to make money from your work?

If you wouldn't, you display a lack of financial awareness that doesn't bode well for your ability to function in the world without being a constant drain on your parents'/ family's/ friends' resources.

If you would, you have just admited piracy IS theft.

[Hamselv]

I'm sorry but you're so far off base. It IS stealing to the letter of the law.

I hate discussions like these because everyone taking part always end up sounding like a moron, whether they win or lose. However:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

In English law, theft was codified into a statutory offence in the Theft Act 1968 which defines it as:

"A person is guilty of theft, if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it".

That's not what pirates do!

[homerjnick]

Piracy isn't theft.

Is has been said a million times before it is theft, please explain to me how it is not? There are plenty of examples in this thread that show it is so I wouldn't mind you showing me via logic or an example why it isn't theft?

Really, some people....