Pirates having A headache...

[ZJ]

Interesting thread.

Good debate going on, can't say I can add anything useful except this:

The title of the threat is inaccurate; the "real" pirates weren't having headaches, its merely that 90% of people on internet are morons that can't read or write and hence the comments on the torrents . I'm sure the remainder managed just fine doing whatever they want.

[bigfootedfred]

Interesting thread.

Good debate going on, can't say I can add anything useful except this:

The title of the threat is inaccurate; the "real" pirates weren't having headaches, its merely that 90% of people on internet are morons that can't read or write and hence the comments on the torrents . I'm sure the remainder managed just fine doing whatever they want.

yeah your probably right.

But it was good to see it wasnt exactly simple enough for any old user to just download and play. As far as i understand there was a working crack a few hours after release for the demo and when i made this post as far as i could tell all they still had was a cracked demo that didnt even work properly.

hell theyve probably managed it by now i would guess, or they might even have by then, i dont know.

But say it deters 30-40% of people who would have just got the game pirate.

(There was no pirated full game copies before release, and for a good deal of time after the release) does that not count as some sort of success?

and people who seem to hate Si/sega for this, comon,

its not like we're talking about m$ the

"lets price everyone out of the market!" company now is it...

[tithedaddy]

who cares about the pirates yes it is annoying the fact they have got it for free but if ya like me then you should just take pride in the fact that you bought your copy and did the right thing screw them just feel good you had the decency to show respect for all the hard work si do.

[shevelevee]

Awesome, you're so funny guys.

It's very interesting for me, how will I get the game without torrents next year. There were two shops, which sent game to Russia, but Sendit.com stop selling game for Russian users. Now I can buy the game only via game.co.uk...

That's why pirates in Germany or Russia cracked the game this year and will crack it next year.

Matt, can you agree with me?

@mods don't try to ban me, this is only criticism, this is not piracy advertising@

[Iggy]

One report from 2003 , one from 2005 and one instigated by Mr Geist?

Software pirates will pirate the goods because they can, there is no incentive to purchase a legit product.

I really really disagree with that. And it's not proveable either really.

We can always bring up cd sales going down, but what about movies who keep making more and more money?

We can bring up pc game sales, but then what about the fact that companies concentrate more and more on consoles? And if I'm correct, FM always sells more and more each year?

In my experiences download has helped sales. My friends have bought more music after they started downloading music, they have bought more movies after they started downloading movies. Why? Simply because watching a movie 5-6 times a week made some of them even more of a movie buff and more interested in collecting movies, always upgrading from their downloaded copy to something they can keep in their shelfs (and it would frankly be cheaper to print out cd labels and cd covers). Same with the music lovers I know, they download alot of stuff, browse through it, buy the stuff they like. That's my experience atleast.

[GillsMan]

We can bring up pc game sales, but then what about the fact that companies concentrate more and more on consoles?

This surely indicates that piracy does harm PC game sales, since piracy is more prevelant on the PC.

[phlapster]

Think the more important question is, if you are playing an online game with someone who has a cracked version does it effect everyone else who is playing who has paid.

Is it possible that bugs and problems can be transfered to what started as a clean game.

I for one paid for my game and even waited almost 2 weeks for the Mac patch would hate to think Im having more problems, cause I am because of cracked games.

[Deathcab for Cutie]

That research has to be the biggest load of tripe I've possibly ever read.

care to provide some data to back up yout statement?

[phlapster]

Took screenshots of results I saw and actual results after game processed.

Maybe I am way off the mark here but am just searching for a reason why this is happening after playing the game solo with new Mac patch and not noticing any problems then playing an online game with friends and everything going topsy turby.

Results I view are different to results after the host processes a 1-0 win becomes a 0-0 draw, there are different scorers or suddenly no scorers at all.

Just wondering if there is a link to unoffical downloads and the bugs they can have or wether it is just a problem with the new Mac patch.

Could have nothing to do with pirate copies and if so this is in wrong topic and I appologise but would like some feedback if this is possible.

[GillsMan]

Plapster, I'd create a separate thread for that in the Bugs forum tbh.

[phlapster]

Have done, cheers mate

[RDXCougar8173]

Took screenshots of results I saw and actual results after game processed.

Maybe I am way off the mark here but am just searching for a reason why this is happening after playing the game solo with new Mac patch and not noticing any problems then playing an online game with friends and everything going topsy turby.

Results I view are different to results after the host processes a 1-0 win becomes a 0-0 draw, there are different scorers or suddenly no scorers at all.

Just wondering if there is a link to unoffical downloads and the bugs they can have or wether it is just a problem with the new Mac patch.

Could have nothing to do with pirate copies and if so this is in wrong topic and I appologise but would like some feedback if this is possible.

http://community.sigames.com/showthread.php?t=12880&page=7 posts 688, 697,699 see if thats any help

[Mike7077]

I love how indignant they're all being. You'd think they'd paid top dollar! And there seems to be a high level of illiteracy among the cracking community.

[gubbs]

Gubbs : How is the fact that 25% of your userbase not contributing to revenue "moot"?

Well its an arbitrary statistic, I just made it up.

The main point was that such statistics and projections for 'lost revenue' are equally arbitrary and unrealistic. As the vast majority of pirates are habitually so and don't have money to spend: evidenced by the comments on that TPB torrent. They are usually kids or young adults with no disposable income and/or no regard. How many of these 'lost sales' were because the person didn't buy it - or because the person downloaded a non crippled version and decided it was utter crap and wouldnt have been worth the £30 anyway? More and more people are becoming more and more jaded by **** product and won't just punt blindly like they did ten years ago. The internet has a lot to answer for both ways tho, I mean if the capacity to distribute patches and ship broken buggy betas to the consumer and 'fix it later' wasn't there (like the old days when it had to be finished before release or else it would tank and you'd go bankrupt) would it even be the case that companies like SI would get away with the same rubbish every year? No way. They'd go under. So it cuts both ways. While big companies may bleat about lost sales and proliferation of images etc. they do themselves no favours.

The reason the corporate nobs are panicking with the DRM is because they took a look at the musak industry; how copying used to be something everyone did to preserve the original media and was no big deal. Suddenly it became a business and went 'mainstream' in that as more and more people became tech literate it was the standard method of aquiring the product rather than paying for it. In other words: the corporate world and psychotic capitalism got ripped off by psychotic capitalists. Not ordinary consumers. So, ignorant or not wanting to admit this, the mega corporations, Apple being a good example, are in the business of selling lifestyle but utterly and ruthlessly repress socialising or social sharing. They don't just view it as lost revenue, they see it as libertine and something to be utterly destroyed and repressed as far as possible because they have this big capitalist psychosis mentality that ordinary people don't share or don't understand. Uber ruthless capitalism is diometrically opposed to liberal democracy .. as we see all around us in the news. Basically their view is that people can't be trusted with free will and choice, they must be forced to choose your ideaology (fascism basically). This used to be the case with advertising and what have you until people got wind of the fact cigarettes werent good for you and GM/Ford didn't really care about safety and Microsoft didnt really care about innovation etc.

In reality of course the vast majority of people are honest or believe in fairness. The world of big enterprise either doesn't care, resents that or actively wants to make us all cynical. American capitalism for example is cultural almost: anyone who doesnt want to profit above all else is a socialist and dangerous.Those it can't convert it will prosecute and demonise; much like the Catholic church and other organised religion centered around a dogmatic creed.

Although I maintain that what promotes piracy above all else is excessive profiterring (remember when a CD album was £18? In 1998 that was a lot of money) and a disregard for the consumer: see in game advertising and lazy DRM implentations. They are basically a victim of their own greed and paranoia.

Its no coincidence that companies like Bethesda have gone with no real DRM on their titles and still make hundreds of millions without breaking a sweat and indie games that sell for $10 for a license appear to be thriving.

I also think coincidentally or not, more and more people are associating the lock down on consumer/entertainment products with the political lock down on civil liberties and ever invasive corporate enterprise on our day to day lives and really, really don't like what they see the future being. Many otherwise 'casual users' are now getting upset and vocal and resent it and do their level best either actively subvert it, or simply not participate. That is why more and more people are getting more and more angry on public forums like these ..

[Seattle]

I though the 5 activations DRM was designed to kill the second hand market ? :confused:

[Nomis07]

Can't we just call these people criminals? I always wanted to be a priate when I was younger, it's kinda tainting the good name of the pirate, with their one leg and parrot.

[Themistofelis]

To put is simple , drm failed to protect your software , actually it died in less than 6 hours , if you look in p2p networks you are looking at the wrong place.

Out of topic , RELOADED are a bunch of losers "doing it for the scene" i am sure +orc would have spit on their faces , who the hell works for 1 month to do what is already be done ?

*If you really want to be a pirate go do some sailing , since i got my diploma i can not wait to go out with the boat.

[Koppol]

I believe some companies actually benefit from piracy, which is rather interesting. Take sony, with the psp, with a lot of effort one can get cfw. This allows you to download psp games for free. The catch, you need a memory stick to put them on. Meaning downloaded games= more mem stick sales. Which also makes me ask why they put security measures in in the first place. propably only there image. Im totally against the piracy and find it unfair that paying users fork out a $50 for every game, while w*#&@*@ just download them for free, at around 500mb.

[gubbs]

I believe some companies actually benefit from piracy, which is rather interesting. Take sony, with the psp, with a lot of effort one can get cfw. This allows you to download psp games for free. The catch, you need a memory stick to put them on. Meaning downloaded games= more mem stick sales. Which also makes me ask why they put security measures in in the first place. propably only there image. Im totally against the piracy and find it unfair that paying users fork out a $50 for every game, while w*#&@*@ just download them for free, at around 500mb.

Well companies whose products deal in platform/format and rely on market share sure do. Microsoft has always made Windows 'easy' to obtain; it ensures their continued dominance. In the Win98 days it was all about getting out there and getting people locked in, so they made it as easy as possible with token security etc. Arguably they still do.

Format wars welcome piracy, after all, if my propietary format optical disk player has more pirated stuff available for it than your propietary format, who's going to buy yours?

[Godlike]

My friend download and played the pirated version 9 BLOODY DAYS before i can even play the original version. GREAT JOB SI, WONDER HOW DO YOU EVEN SURVIVE TO 09...next year if you still making fm i promise i'll play the pirated version because it's better and faster.

[craigy18181]

My friend download and played the pirated version 9 BLOODY DAYS before i can even play the original version. GREAT JOB SI, WONDER HOW DO YOU EVEN SURVIVE TO 09...next year if you still making fm i promise i'll play the pirated version because it's better and faster.

good for you, muppet

[midlothian]

This surely indicates that piracy does harm PC game sales, since piracy is more prevelant on the PC.

True but there's another aspect to the consoles' growing popularity among developers and publishers: it's much easier to optimise the game to a console as (for example) every PS3 has got exactly the same hardware whereas every PC is different.

[Glyn]

In my experiences download has helped sales. My friends have bought more music after they started downloading music, they have bought more movies after they started downloading movies. Why? Simply because watching a movie 5-6 times a week made some of them even more of a movie buff and more interested in collecting movies, always upgrading from their downloaded copy to something they can keep in their shelfs (and it would frankly be cheaper to print out cd labels and cd covers). Same with the music lovers I know, they download alot of stuff, browse through it, buy the stuff they like. That's my experience atleast.

Any chance of you explaining how that has any relevance to software piracy?

[Some Guy!]

...the Pirates should cut down on the rum then.

[Some Guy!]

Seriously though...

Have they made it so the activation fixes some things with the game as well as just allowing it to play, because I don't see why there would be insane levels of bugs in the cracked version otherwise...

If so, good on ya SI! Finally someone has done it right!

[shevelevee]

Any chance of you explaining how that has any relevance to software piracy?

I can explain.

... - 2007 FM&CM didn't sell in Russia

Pirates crack them every year, fans did their own translation, one of us was banned on this forum for our own translation. FM' fans army rise very quickly. The game is very popular, VERY POPULAR without any advertising.

2007 - Softclub try to sell FM in Russia. Fast and quick succesfull sales. FMFansite in Russia reached 15.000 users limit.

And now, what do you think - if there weren't cracked versions, how popular the game will be all over the world?

Excuse my English...

[iamjerome]

there's a clear and definite difference between piracy of software and music in terms of how likely to buy after trying

[IanZG]

By all accounts, the pirated versions avaible atm are full of bugs, dont work properly, kick you out after one season..and so on.

Has DRM succeded? at least for now..

from varoius torrents.

hahahaha

What were you doing on those torrent sites?

[JOHNSONFC]

wasnt there a similar thread last year about triggers and bugs ect in pirate versions of the game?? maybe even started by some1 from SI? (dont quote me on that). anyway i know people who have played last years and this years without any bother at all.

[Šećer Babo]

Seriously though...

Have they made it so the activation fixes some things with the game as well as just allowing it to play, because I don't see why there would be insane levels of bugs in the cracked version otherwise...

If so, good on ya SI! Finally someone has done it right!

Where do you come up with this? There are no bugs in pirated versions. The much talked about bug that you can play only 1 year is not relatet to fm, it's a bug in fifa manager or some other fifa game. The "bugs" that you hear about are from people who dont know to follow instructions that come vith the game/crack. Today i saw a fm09 manual on a torrent site, taken from steam. So this talk about bugs and problems are a joke. There will never be possible to have complete protection from sofware/other forms of piracy. There is always someone who is expert enough and willing to produce the crack or something to go around this protection.

This years fight against piracy just damaged the paying customers. Pirates will get the game one way or another.

[ookie]

Good to see them having problems

unlike the people who bought the game legally of course

[Themistofelis]

I am sure they didn't have any problem , clubs were full of lone women for 2nd weekend in the raw , keep up the good job.

[GerdMuller]

This surely indicates that piracy does harm PC game sales, since piracy is more prevelant on the PC.

I think it indicates that people are forced onto the consoles because the games on consoles generally arent as buggy as PC ones and dont need 2 patches at least after release. PC gamers are treated 2nd class in my opinion.

[Pricey85]

I think it indicates that people are forced onto the consoles because the games on consoles generally arent as buggy as PC ones and dont need 2 patches at least after release. PC gamers are treated 2nd class in my opinion.

I would say that lack of technical knowledge (many people would rather a console because it's just plug and play) and expense (Consoles are generally cheaper and over their life spans don't need upgrading) factor higher in the consumer decision making process than bugs. My answer also doesn't take into account the massive advertising difference.

[djwilko6]

I think it indicates that people are forced onto the consoles because the games on consoles generally arent as buggy as PC ones and dont need 2 patches at least after release. PC gamers are treated 2nd class in my opinion.

Taking into account the fact that alot of problems are hardware based, I'd disagree, as I've mentioned before it is impossible to cater for the 1000's of different builds that PC gamers may have, compared to the 5 at most that console gamers have (PS2, PS3, Xbox360, Wii, DS).

It is this reason that EA didnt release a PC version of TW2009 and why the Battlefield series has stalled on the PC but is going strong on consoles.

In my opinion the reason that there is more console gamers is ease of use, you dont need to keep up with technology as much in comparison to having a PC, you only need to look at the amount of threads asking "Is my PC good enough to run FM?" threads for proof of that.

[moxphere]

I think SIn8 may have a point. I found dozens of fully functional pirat versions in the web, and being a MAC user outside US/EU, I am being penalized while users with less scrupulous are enjoying since day one.

[SuperMeppen]

What were you doing on those torrent sites?

Well SI themselves use torrents to distribute patches for starters, so there are plenty of legitimate reasons for being on there - don't be so righteous.

[scouse9976]

It's merely a demo extender. So it doesn't have full functionality at all.

in what ways does it not have full functionality they are able to do everything i can do on my real copy there are no diff things to the 1 i have

[marcusjm_swe]

You don't need to visit pirate sites to use the torrent. I call BS on that. The one and only reason to monitor lists like that, is to hunt for pirated software/content.

I just love people with double standards .

When did talking about piracy become legit here btw?

Btw, if anyone wants a sober and serious analysis on DRM/Piracy just read the article on the issue by gamesindustry.biz.

Unlike alot of the BS around this subject they have some clear facts and analysis. Forget all amateur thinkers.

[djwilko6]

You don't need to visit pirate sites to use the torrent. I call BS on that. The one and only reason to monitor lists like that, is to hunt for pirated software/content.

I just love people with double standards .

When did talking about piracy become legit here btw?

Btw, if anyone wants a sober and serious analysis on DRM/Piracy just read the article on the issue by gamesindustry.biz.

Unlike alot of the BS around this subject they have some clear facts and analysis. Forget all amateur thinkers.

If you want to see my boxed copy of FM, I'd be happy to show you.

Some people buy just as many things as they download, I'm a sucka for Boston Legal and House boxsets personally.

SI/SEGA monitor sites aswell, probably using people who have accounts at these places, unless you are implying they pirate their own game?

[marcusjm_swe]

Yes but you are not paid to hunt down illegal copies so you can't really use that excuse.

Having a boxed version of one product doesn't make it more legit to download other products.

I think the best thing is to not talk about these torrent sites at all since it's strictly prohibited here.

[GerdMuller]

Taking into account the fact that alot of problems are hardware based, I'd disagree, as I've mentioned before it is impossible to cater for the 1000's of different builds that PC gamers may have, compared to the 5 at most that console gamers have (PS2, PS3, Xbox360, Wii, DS).

It is this reason that EA didnt release a PC version of TW2009 and why the Battlefield series has stalled on the PC but is going strong on consoles.

In my opinion the reason that there is more console gamers is ease of use, you dont need to keep up with technology as much in comparison to having a PC, you only need to look at the amount of threads asking "Is my PC good enough to run FM?" threads for proof of that.

But its not always only hardware problems that occur on PC versions. Often the whole game design is just crap on PC while its godd on consoles. Look at NHL for example. PC version is a joke, while console versions are awesome. I think it has a lot to do with general alazyness, as developers say: Well its PC version we can just put out some patches after release...

[djwilko6]

But its not always only hardware problems that occur on PC versions. Often the whole game design is just crap on PC while its godd on consoles. Look at NHL for example. PC version is a joke, while console versions are awesome. I think it has a lot to do with general alazyness, as developers say: Well its PC version we can just put out some patches after release...

I can't comment on what I havent played, but generally I would agree with you, I guess I look at that as a positive tho, something that is in the PC's favour, if there is a problem that is missed, then there used to be nothing you could do about it on a console, tho that is changing with online console gaming (map packs for COD for example).

Yes but you are not paid to hunt down illegal copies so you can't really use that excuse.

Having a boxed version of one product doesn't make it more legit to download other products.

I think the best thing is to not talk about these torrent sites at all since it's strictly prohibited here.

Nobody is saying they are hunting down illegal copies, you said people are only on those sites to hunt for pirated content, I was merely stating that in my case I wasn't hunting for Football Manager, PC games are one thing I will never pirate, especially as most copies of games I have are "Special Editions" in some way, my last purchase was the Lord of the Rings Online: Mines of Moria Special Edition, which came with a whole load of non-downloadable fluff (the "One Ring", an Elven brooch, maps and codes for bonus items).

I am not saying I am any better than a pirate who downloads everything they see, but if I can't get it in this country I would be more inclined download it.

Finally, nobody has mentioned any specific sites, other than by initials so there is no discussion of specific sites and I see no need to close the thread, the only thing that I could see happening is it being moved to Off-topic as its straying away from FM now.

[ArturoLupoli]

I'm sorry, i don't buy very much of this at all.

When the DRM was causing a lot of problems, how many people were tempted to download an illegal copy? I remember searching, but then deciding not to download.

It appeared that, for the first couple of days there were few fully working cracks available, however that has changed.

Unfortunately for any software distributor, whatever protection they use, even bespoke created protection, there will always be a smarter, better programmer / hacker who will be able to produce a crack for it.

Generally speaking, DRM resulted in annoyed customers, and a very little, if any difference, in the amount of piraters.

People also have to remember, Torrents aren't the most reliable in my opinion. There are PLENTY of forum-sharing sites which use very common data strorage websites such as MegaUpload and Rapidshare (handy for storing alot of personal files onto if you need, however it's abused and almost all software etc is stored on these sites).

Generally speaking, when expensive business software worth over 150 quid can be cracked with a simple keygen, what chance does a 25 quid football game have of preventing piracy.

[Kris]

I think SIn8 may have a point. I found dozens of fully functional pirat versions in the web, and being a MAC user outside US/EU, I am being penalized while users with less scrupulous are enjoying since day one.

And you are not a thief and have morals.

Pirates are thieves and are breaking the law no matter how much they want to justify their "beliefs".

Hey I just thought of a car analogy (so the average GQ'er should love this).

My car has a coded key which can only be encoded by a service centre (or someone who is technically savvy with a laptop and a RS232 connection). This means that the spare key I ordered doesnt work as a mechanical key because it needs an extra (software) layer.

So it irritates me that when I lost my key I had to go connect my laptop to the cars cpu and program the keys rf frequency to that of "accepted" keys. But hey it will prevent (or at least delay) any thief from just using a basic security key in my car to make off with it.

I could then go on about how the gps sends co-ordinates and my driving preference (which it computes) to a server which sends locations of theatres, takeaways and so on. Hell it even shows locations of toilets and their condition

But thats a whole different subject.

[Hamselv]

I havent advocated DRM in this thread (or ever) have I?

Now that you mention it, I guess you haven't. There are so many people here with so many opinions that it's sometimes difficult to keep it all separated. Sorry for putting words in your mouth

Btw, if anyone wants a sober and serious analysis on DRM/Piracy just read the article on the issue by gamesindustry.biz.

Unlike alot of the BS around this subject they have some clear facts and analysis. Forget all amateur thinkers.

I had a look at the site, and as they say:

It is aimed at anyone involved with the design, development, publishing, marketing, distribution or retail of videogames

I couldn't find the article you are referring to, but usually any analysis made by someone so close to the industry will probably be biased. If you got a bunch of pirates to make an analysis then that would probably end up somehow proving whatever point they would like to be able to prove as well.

While most of us here are also just "amateur thinkers" we are at least fairly impartial, since most of us are neither directly part of the gaming industry nor pirates. So, personally I trust some of the things I read on boards like this.

[ookie]

never downloaded anything then Chris, not even one song off the net? saved a few copyrighted pictures? ever copied or burned a music CD?

i'm sure you'll have done something that's broken some sort of copyright, and you know what that makes you

A THIEF! no matter how much you try and justify your beliefs!!! stop breaking the law, CRIMINAL!!!!! you should be locked up with all the others

etc.

[Kris]

Is your "chris" referring to me?

No i havent dowloaded songs, I can either use iTunes or similar websites where I pay for lossless formats.

Nope, not copyrighted pictures either, because I do photography myself and are aware of image rights.

Nope not burned or copied a music cd.

Little history, worked for MS for a short period, then a major IT company (well within the channel islands).

then as a developer for financial software.

Then worked on AI routines for antipiracy methods.

so i dont need to justify anything for the simple reason that I dont steal software, as it would

1) be going against what Ive worked for

2) be slightly irritating to my current clients with regards current work on antipiracy measures

[Kris]

I do however take an active part in reverse engineering the pirates code as it in turn is normally a reversed engineered version of our own code.

Difference is that reverse engineering copyrighted code is illegal (see my post in house rules forum regarding WIPO/EUCD/DMCA and Berne conventions), whilst reverse engineering pirated code is not.

I also disagree with the user who states that the pirate community has better coders, they dont its just that the publisher of mainstream software cannot incorporate code which would defeat pirates as they tend to be highly intrusive (Ive mentioned as such on previous pages, we have established "piracy proof" code for our corporate users but they dont mind the intrusive / PITA level)

[ookie]

i don't believe you chris, get back to jail with the nonces and the Junkies, you lowlife criminal