Playing like Greece 2004

[Fánabrauð]

I'm currently using a bog standard 4231 gegenpress, but since it seems like it's the meta this year, it's become quite boring. And since it became dull, I thought "why not go all the way and bore everyone to death?"

And that's exactly what I'm trying to do. Rehhagel's 2004 Greek side is the most boring team I could think of, and before devising a tactic mimicking it I decided to ask how you'd do it.

Enough said. Let's turn all our teams into a cure for insomnia!

Edited August 30, 2020 by Fánabrauð

[Fánabrauð]

Looks like people got bored and fell asleep midway through reading the post

[Experienced Defender]

People probably don't remember well enough how Greece played back then (apart from being very defensive and using a 5-man back-line with a sweeper, which btw no longer exists in FM).

Be patient and someone will hopefully jump in with ideas 

[Enzo_Francescoli]

I remember them well. They played some form of a 433, but the difficulty in translating their system to the game lies mainly in their man-marking. Which means they played  differently when facing two-striker systems than against 1-striker system. They always had a spare man on the d-line, a sweeper kind, like @Experienced Defender mentioned. That's more or less a CD on cover duty in the game, and this player didn't man-mark. Now, against two strikers, one of the full-backs tucked inside and marked one striker, while the non-sweeper CD marked the other. Against Portugal's 433 in the final, the full-backs man-marked the wingers, and lone striker was marked by the CD. This latter one can either be on defend or a stopper. Only one of the full-backs made forward runs, depending on the opposition. In midfield, they usually had two defence-first players and one with a licence to go forward. Something like DM(d)- BWM(s)-MEZ(s), but this needs extensive testing. Up front, they had a targetman-type who would hold up the ball (Tm(s) or PF(s). Charisteas, their most dangerous attacker, was something like an IF(a). On the other side, a traditional winger who tracked back a lot. Out of possession, tight marking and get stuck in seem like a must. Direct passing, definitely. Cautious or defensive mentality, so LOE and D-line can stay on standard.

There is (was?) a video on youtube that breaks down their system which I know I've seen several times, but right now, I can't find it.

[scratchmonkey]

I think that this would be an excellent first starting point for trying to recreate Greece 2004: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/29/greece-euro-2004-tactics/

The real challenge for recreating this style is that it's very much predicated on man-marking the opposition's attacking players, my best stab at replicating this in FM would be to have several versions of the same tactic with individual marking instructions set out by position -- one system for 2 forwards, one system for a tridente, etc. making sure that you set your defenders to man-mark particular positions.

In terms of shape and roles, it's hard to say because Greece changed so much during that tournament, sometimes looking like a 4-4-2 Narrow Diamond, sometimes, a 4-5-1, difficult to say again, with defenders happily moving around to follow the other team. My suggestion would be to play a 5-4-1 with a narrow diamond, with the attacking midfielder offset to the side along with the lone forward and a wingback as the runner on the other side from the AM. There's a lot of different ways that you could go with roles, especially for the Basinas role, could be a DLP(D), could be a HB, could be an Anchorman (I would probably go with the first option personally). At least one of the CMs should be a BWM.

In terms of Team Instructions, I'd start with Defensive, then:

• In Possession: More Direct, Higher Tempo, Floated Crosses, Play for Set Pieces
• In Transition: Hold Shape, Counter
• Out of Possession: Use Tighter Marking

There's a thread in this very forum from 2014 covering the same territory that has at least one person reporting on trying to create and play with such a system:

 

[Jean0987654321]

Some good watches

 

[Fánabrauð]

5 hours ago, scratchmonkey said:

I think that this would be an excellent first starting point for trying to recreate Greece 2004: http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/29/greece-euro-2004-tactics/

The real challenge for recreating this style is that it's very much predicated on man-marking the opposition's attacking players, my best stab at replicating this in FM would be to have several versions of the same tactic with individual marking instructions set out by position -- one system for 2 forwards, one system for a tridente, etc. making sure that you set your defenders to man-mark particular positions.

In terms of shape and roles, it's hard to say because Greece changed so much during that tournament, sometimes looking like a 4-4-2 Narrow Diamond, sometimes, a 4-5-1, difficult to say again, with defenders happily moving around to follow the other team. My suggestion would be to play a 5-4-1 with a narrow diamond, with the attacking midfielder offset to the side along with the lone forward and a wingback as the runner on the other side from the AM. There's a lot of different ways that you could go with roles, especially for the Basinas role, could be a DLP(D), could be a HB, could be an Anchorman (I would probably go with the first option personally). At least one of the CMs should be a BWM.

In terms of Team Instructions, I'd start with Defensive, then:

• In Possession: More Direct, Higher Tempo, Floated Crosses, Play for Set Pieces
• In Transition: Hold Shape, Counter
• Out of Possession: Use Tighter Marking

There's a thread in this very forum from 2014 covering the same territory that has at least one person reporting on trying to create and play with such a system:

 

A narrow diamond with a back 4 suits my side a bit better than a back 5, so I think I'm going with that and a HB or Anchorman to mimick the sweeper. As Fyssas often tucked in as a left back, I think an IWB on support would be my best bet? And a standard FB-A to provide width on the right. In the middle, I'm going with a BWM, and haven't decided the other role yet, I'm torn between BBM, CM and CAR (all on S). Don't know about the AM yet, and one of the strikers could become another CB.

 

As for TI's, you're pretty much spot on I think. I'd just maybe add hit early crosses, be more disciplined and maybe waste time in possession, regroup and distribute slowly in transition, and get stuck in out of possession. OI's would be set to always tight mark everyone, and most players would have "mark tighter" and maybe "tackle harder" PI's for good measure.

 

Also, is it possible to have hold shape and counter on at the same time? I always thought it was one or the other.

 

 

[scratchmonkey]

1 hour ago, Fánabrauð said:

Also, is it possible to have hold shape and counter on at the same time? I always thought it was one or the other.

I meant Regroup and Counter, apologies.