A guide to direct long ball, antifootball play - A Dyche's Burnley inspired 4-4-2

[tyro]

I have read this thread with big interest. 

For years we have the possession-based systems, tiki taka, counter attacking, and so on.

All I am trying to do, is to get a tactic with quick or more direct passing to the front with intent and overwhelm the opposition with speed - like a homing missile with some in-between stops (if necessary) to get to the goal. It would be kind of like counter-attack but not waiting for the counter. You hit them fast right away. 

I like the simplicity as well with your team shouts and I see you started with balanced changed it to positive mentality recently.

I guess the only problem with this is, what if they just stand back and there's no space? So with the roles one needs to build sufficient variety and movement to combine the speed and directness with pulling the defenders out of position to capitalize on the space created. 

Maybe these are two different things but I will see if I can build your ideas in and create something and then carry it over to FM 21. 

Have you had difficulties with very defensive teams using this approach?

 

Edited October 27, 2020 by tyro

[engamohd]

On 26/10/2020 at 16:32, Tsuru said:

I think the final result is very good @engamohd. Looks like you developed an excellent hoofball tactic, exploring the Target Man, being agressive and direct but not necessary playing on the counter.

Myself I am working on a quick transition style tactic using the Fluid Counter Attack as a starting point, probably the final version will be a 5-3-2. Your other topic about the 5-3-2 flat non-gegen also gave me some insights, maybe I will post it here on the forum later. I think I am more a fan of quick and speedy transitions than longball itself, so I will work on that.

Thank you! I found that the crucial missing piece was the Attacking mentality. You need to show much more attacking intent than the balanced mentality, and coupled with the aggressive defending, you get that non-park-the-bus hoof ball. Good luck and sorry for my late reply.

[engamohd]

On 27/10/2020 at 10:45, tyro said:

I guess the only problem with this is, what if they just stand back and there's no space? So with the roles one needs to build sufficient variety and movement to combine the speed and directness with pulling the defenders out of position to capitalize on the space created. 

Obviously this is the main issue, I am trying to use Standard-Cautious mentality with More Direct Passing (rather than Much More Direct) to counter these buggers, but still we aren't as rampant against parked buses as I would like. I am also trying to play quite wide, so to drag them from their positions too.

[Smiza]

Thanks for the interesting read. Currently I am enjoying the FM21 beta. I like to play realistic, this is way I always start with the lowest reputation possible. Still started with 1.FC Köln in Bundesliga, trying to play a simple and direct 4231. Didn't really work, after 10 games I was on an eight game no win streak. So I thought: "F*ck it." And decided to go full way destructive. This thread certainly helped me with that approach. Might be able to keep my job...

Goal was a corner.

 

[DJ Sir Matthew]

Would be interested in seeing the set pieces routine, I read you use near post as delivery but how did you set the players f.e.?

[kingjericho]

Very excited to load up the new game and have a go with this setup, by far my favourite approach. It's one of those styles where you can really create a trademark.

Edited November 25, 2020 by kingjericho

[Djeon36]

Hey have you guys tried this out in FM21 yet? Does anyone know if the new match engine is more favorable for defensive tactics?

[engamohd]

On 25/11/2020 at 12:11, kingjericho said:

Very excited to load up the new game and have a go with this setup, by far my favourite approach. It's one of those styles where you can really create a trademark.

Good luck mate!, Would like to know how it goes.

[teodoro]

Thanks for your great post!!

Where can I find your tactic?

Is it available?

[Mr_Demus]

On 23/09/2020 at 23:06, engamohd said:

My TM-S and PF-A combo are supposed to be a big man-small man duo. However, I was getting frustrated getting the ball lumped to the PF-A instead to the TM-S. This is probably caused by the "Much More Direct Passes" shout and the PF-A is the furthest available pass at any given time.

My solution was to use TM-A and let the small man be the PF-S. I have never used a TM-A to lead the line, but I had some solace watching Conte use Lukaku ahead of Lautauro in his Inter side. 

The results were immense, we are MUCH more clinical going forward -especially against attacking teams-, while the TM works much better in attack than on support, flicking passes to his partner and the winger. I also dabbled a lot with the pressing instructions to find a sweet spot between passive and high pressing. This is my current formation and instructions:

I just started a new save with QPR, and I am going to use this as a base.

 

I found that on FM20, I ended up always setting up 433 DM Wide formations with emphasis on possesion, so on FM21, I am challenging myself to trying out new things. And honestly: I love target man shithousery, so that was naturally my go to.

[ceefax the cat]

I struggle to take the tactic in the OP too seriously because of the counterpressing, which all but guarantees it'll be relatively successful in FM20 and isn't generally a feature of dour long ball sides, more the rapid 100mph long ball of sides like Schmidt's RB Salzburg, where they just pinged the ball into an area they'd overcrowded to create chaos and hope to exploit it. Or maybe Ventura's 4-2-4. Sureley you would associate Burnley more with regrouping....?

Edited December 9, 2020 by ceefax the cat

[kingjericho]

I think at this point the goal was trying to create a hoofball tactic that could actually work in the game rather than a perfect emulation of Burnley.

[engamohd]

3 hours ago, ceefax the cat said:

I struggle to take the tactic in the OP too seriously because of the counterpressing, which all but guarantees it'll be relatively successful in FM20 and isn't generally a feature of dour long ball sides, more the rapid 100mph long ball of sides like Schmidt's Leipzig, where they just pinged the ball into an area they'd overcrowded to create chaos and hope to exploit it. Or maybe Ventura's 4-2-4. Sureley you would associate Burnley more with regrouping....?

I agree to an extent. "Dour longball sides" are, in no way successful, they are either using the regroup and very low block it to mitigate their weaknesses, or they are forced into it. In both cases they fail miserably long term. Burnley sits 18th currently, Allardayce, Pulis and co. rarely had consistent success.

As @kingjerichomentions, it is my intention to create a hoofball tactic that could be consistently successful. In my opinion, you can NEVER be successful if you are reactive. You need to be proactive and throw problems at your opponents to deal with it. Longball + passive defending is very reactive, and depends on the opponents allowing you the chance to play to the striker. Plus, if you are a small/medium team facing a defender like van Dijk for example, you are essentially losing your only attacking outlet. 

Actually, you can't rely on delivering long balls to a striker, and if he fails to capitalize (which will happen most of the time) you regroup. This is just a recipe for disaster. Counterpressing after losing a long ball is actually allowing you to capitalize the havoc caused by the long ball to unsuspecting defenders. However, this isn't a high pressing tactic, the D-Line is standard, and the LOE is pushed a bit up for reasons said above.

Personally, the best long ball teams at the moment are Mourinho's Spurs and Simeone's Atleti, both use direct long balls frequently, but coupled with a medium/high pressing block, certainly without regrouping.

[davidbarros2]

48 minutos atrás, engamohd disse:

In my opinion, you can NEVER be successful if you are reactive.

I don't have glaring proof but I don't agree with this one (it's probably more difficult to achieve tho...).

In FM18 - before the Regroup and Counter-Press team instructions - I tried a 4231 low block tactic that featured in @Rashidi tactic book. I tried with Burnley and in a couple of years I have the best team around. Obviously it went more difficult to break stubborn teams down but I always managed to do it. I remember Rashidi's advise something like "if you are managing a top tier team, you can tick Be more Expressive and Roam from Position" (this former instruction is no longer available).

I could not recreate that success in later editions of the game - IDK if anyone has tried it or not - but I guess it's possible to win with consistency being reactive.

But I totally get what you meant and I do agree is far more easier to do it being proactive.

[engamohd]

3 minutes ago, davidbarros2 said:

I don't have glaring proof but I don't agree with this one (it's probably more difficult to achieve tho...).

In FM18 - before the Regroup and Counter-Press team instructions - I tried a 4231 low block tactic that featured in @Rashidi tactic book. I tried with Burnley and in a couple of years I have the best team around. Obviously it went more difficult to break stubborn teams down but I always managed to do it. I remember Rashidi's advise something like "if you are managing a top tier team, you can tick Be more Expressive and Roam from Position" (this former instruction is no longer available).

I could not recreate that success in later editions of the game - IDK if anyone has tried it or not - but I guess it's possible to win with consistency being reactive.

But I totally get what you meant and I do agree is far more easier to do it being proactive.

On FM18, I played the entire game with a medium/low block 4132 narrow. What I did was, probably as you did too, press aggressively with a low line. 

This is being proactive, forcing the opponent to concede space, while playing expressively as we win back the ball.

The difference is, I didn't hoof the ball at all opportunity. The team played out quickly to the forwards supported by the wingbacks and a central midfielder. It was closer to Atleti than Burnley.

However, if you were defending deep, then hoofing the ball up, only looking to the targetman to latch unto it, this would be reactive. 

[davidbarros2]

Not really relying on pressing...

It was something like:

GK

DFB, NCB, CD,WB-D

CM-D, B2B

IF-A, AP-A, IF-S

P

And the TI's were to play narrower, tighter marking, much deeper defensive line (we didn't have line of engagement back then), and offside trap (to compress the space).

The only thing pressing related I remember it was as PI's for both fullbacks, 'cause the aim of the tactic was to invite the opposition into our deep defense and then agressively take the ball to launch a quick and direct counter.

Most of the goals were direct passes to the AMC who delivered through balls to the poacher of inside forward. I did like it 'cause it was always 4-5 passes and then goal.

I do love playing on the counter and I do love taking control of top tier teams, so, in every edition of the game I struggled to a certain degree...

 

[ceefax the cat]

Nobody is suggesting you can be successful by just constantly letting your opponents breeze into your half and dominate possession. If you try to force them to play down the wings, stop them on or just past the halfway line, and then focus on getting numbers quickly up in support of the target man - and you're very good at it - there's no reason why you can't be very successful. 

Counterpressing is not the only way to be proactive and it's grossly overpowered in FM - if you ask your Yeovil side to do it for 90 minutes you should, if we're being realistic, really expect disaster. Very few teams in the world of football are fit and organised enough to really apply it and practically every successful team in most world leagues has a less intense way of defending. Many of them opt for a mid or low block for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean they're not applying pressure to their opponents. When the opposing keeper has it, they don't just all go and stand in their own half and wait.... 

I had some joy in FM20 with low closing down settings and a relatively narrow, low block, but using OI's to make sure that when opposition wide players get the ball, someone goes to close them down, and that central attacking players are generally always marked. That seemed to be a good balance. Perhaps a little bit of extra closing down on 1 or both strikers would be good too, to keep the opposition honest and encourage them to play forwards.

Edited December 9, 2020 by ceefax the cat

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, ceefax the cat said:

Nobody is suggesting you can be successful by just constantly letting your opponents breeze into your half and dominate possession. If you try to force them to play down the wings, stop them on or just past the halfway line, and then focus on getting numbers quickly up in support of the target man - and you're very good at it - there's no reason why you can't be very successful. 

Counterpressing is not the only way to be proactive and it's grossly overpowered in FM - if you ask your Yeovil side to do it for 90 minutes you should, if we're being realistic, really expect disaster. Very few teams in the world of football are fit and organised enough to really apply it and practically every successful team in most world leagues has a less intense way of defending. Many of them opt for a mid or low block for one reason or another, but that doesn't mean they're not applying pressure to their opponents. When the opposing keeper has it, they don't just all go and stand in their own half and wait.... 

I had some joy in FM20 with low closing down settings and a relatively narrow, low block, but using OI's to make sure that when opposition wide players get the ball, someone goes to close them down, and that central attacking players are generally always marked. That seemed to be a good balance. Perhaps a little bit of extra closing down on 1 or both strikers would be good too, to keep the opposition honest and encourage them to play forwards.

I agree, and I also admit I misconstrued your intention. "Dour long ball" relates to reactive, low block, stand-offish teams that lump it long aimlessly.

I personally had a lot of success with this style (a lower narrow aggressive block a la Atletico) in fm16, fm17 and fm18, and this is how I like to play, aggressive low block, doing it in the exactly same way you describe, narrow and with OIs.

You inspired me to recreate it in FM21! Thanks!

Edited December 9, 2020 by engamohd

[ceefax the cat]

Ha, no problem! Wish my current squad had the personnel to play that way.

[engamohd]

37 minutes ago, ceefax the cat said:

Ha, no problem! Wish my current squad had the personnel to play that way.

I quickly put forth a base, with low DL and LOE and regroup on Attacking mentality (and appropriate OIs) in my Brentford team, for a game against Norwich in the PL. Turned to a great 4-0 win against Farke's attacking side:

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by engamohd

[ceefax the cat]

Oh, I've remembered another way I did it in FM20 that works. A high LoE, maybe even a 'higher' DL as well, but low / very low closing down + some OI's on opposition wide players. Because your players aren't closing down much, most of them just filter back and you end up in a block just inside your own half anyway. As long as your tweaks to closing down (maybe a bit extra on your attacking or wide players / some OI's on theirs) are just about right, you apply just enough pressure while you're retreating but don't have to retreat too far. It's good when combined with a high mentality and counterattacking because if you do happen to intercept it while they're building up in their half, you generally have enough players still forward and in space to cause problems.

Edited December 9, 2020 by ceefax the cat

[Zemahh]

13 hours ago, ceefax the cat said:

I struggle to take the tactic in the OP too seriously because of the counterpressing, which all but guarantees it'll be relatively successful in FM20 and isn't generally a feature of dour long ball sides, more the rapid 100mph long ball of sides like Schmidt's Leipzig, where they just pinged the ball into an area they'd overcrowded to create chaos and hope to exploit it. Or maybe Ventura's 4-2-4. Sureley you would associate Burnley more with regrouping....?

Personally, I don't think Counter-Press is completely counter-intuitive for defensive tactics. It's not an instruction that works in isolation, the rest of your tactic still plays a huge part in determining how your defence actually looks like (Formation, Line of Engagement, Pressing Urgency).

For example, I'm currently playing an aggressive 4-4-2 (Attacking Mentality, Counter-Press) and this is where we win the ball back most of the time:

Still a fairly low block, I'd say. Now, if you go and use the same set of instructions in a 4-2-3-1/4-2-4, then you actually have a high-press and no longer a "defensive" tactic.

I think it comes down to whether you want to win the ball back aggressively or sit back and wait for mistakes. In FM terms, I'd say the latter is actually riskier and requires defensively better players, since if you actively invite opposition deep into your half, your players better not have lapses in concentration or be bad at reading the game. It's why low block interpretations can be tricky in FM, since the game can kinda lead you down the path of being too passive. Plus, it's hard to actually win games, if you restrict yourself to one or two chances per game with giving opposition all the possession.

[ceefax the cat]

It's not that playing long ball + counterpressing makes no sense. (Ventura's 4-2-4, Schmidt's RB Salzburg.) It's more that a) counterpressing is so unrealistically overpowered in FM that you could play almost any system with it and do OK and b) for the style of play we're talking about here, I'm not sure it quite fits...

[engamohd]

1 minute ago, ceefax the cat said:

It's not that playing long ball + counterpressing makes no sense. (Ventura's 4-2-4, Schmidt's RB Salzburg.) It's more that a) counterpressing is so unrealistically overpowered in FM that you could play almost any system with it and do OK and b) for the style of play we're talking about here, I'm not sure it quite fits...

Read this excellent article on spielverlagerung, will give you a bit of insight about counter pressing with long ball from real life

» The Art of the Long Ball (spielverlagerung.com)

[ceefax the cat]

3 minutes ago, engamohd said:

Read this excellent article on spielverlagerung, will give you a bit of insight about counter pressing with long ball from real life

» The Art of the Long Ball (spielverlagerung.com)

I have done, which is also where I found the article on Roger Schmidt who used counterpressing + long balls to great effect.

https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/07/15/red-bull-salzburg-under-roger-schmidt-2014/

[SCCP1910]

On 09/12/2020 at 19:03, engamohd said:

I quickly put forth a base, with low DL and LOE and regroup on Attacking mentality (and appropriate OIs) in my Brentford team, for a game against Norwich in the PL. Turned to a great 4-0 win against Farke's attacking side:

 

Sorry if I'm a bit late to the thread, but what OI's did you use?

[engamohd]

14 hours ago, SCCP1910 said:

Sorry if I'm a bit late to the thread, but what OI's did you use?

For all central players other than CBs: Tight Marking

For all right sided wide players: always press, tackle harder and show on right foot

For all left sided wide players: always press, tackle harder and show on left foot

[SCCP1910]

Thanks mate 

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, SCCP1910 said:

Thanks mate 

Cheers mate

[OrientTillIDie]

So I’ve been a big advocate of the Hoofball concept for a few years, and @johnnyyakuza78 gave me lots of great advice for last year’s game. I’ve taken that, along with the OPs post to build a career with lowly Weymouth in the National League. Semi professional, tiny wage budget, absolutely no hope of surviving.

 

I went with the same system as the OP initially, mainly because it’s basically where I start anyway. I removed Counter-Press though because my players aren’t exactly athletes who can manage that on a regular basis. Also added Tighter Marking and Get Stuck In. After watching a few games, it became apparent that my players were shooting from absurd distances and not really crossing the ball. So I added Shoot Less Often as PIs and added Hit Early Crosses as a TI.

 

The results were remarkable. Pretty much my entire squad were on non-contract terms and probably only good enough for the league below, and yet I finished 6th in the league. Lost in the first playoff game but a really solid starting point. Even managed to dominate possession in a lot of games.

 

I’ve kept the TM(s) in the left slot because the guy I signed scored 15 goals and provided 8 assists, including multiple perfect flick-ons to my PF(a). My main PF got 20 in the league, and my backup PF chipped in with 7. I have tried the TM on Attack duty but I just can’t seem to get it to work. 
 

Plenty of clean sheets too, although my defenders average ratings were appalling. Probably because they were just lumping the ball forward. Same with the two central midfielders, but again probably because they’re being bypassed by the long ball.
 

Adding the Hit Early Crosses instruction seemed to be a catalyst for my success. Obviously it doesn’t work all the time but any player who finds themselves in a crossing position just sends the ball into the box. The law of averages says that it will pay off the more that happens. 
 

I’m currently in the preseason of my second year. A lot of players in on trial to try and improve my squad, which was easily the worst in the league last season. I’ll keep updating as I go but the early signs are promising.

 

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention was starting on Balanced and changing the mentality depending on who I’m playing. Balanced tends to work against most teams. If I’m at home to a team I’m well above in the table, I’ll change to Attacking to try and pin them back and get them on the back foot. If I’m up against a good side, I might change to Cautious which absorbs pressure well. Equally if I’m leading with 15 minutes to play, I might change to a more conservative style.

Edited December 21, 2020 by OrientTillIDie

[ta11zx]

Currently using this tactic with FC Torino.  sitting mid table after a slow start (lost a lot of games 1-0 including 3-2 away to Juventus).  We have been on fire now and starting to slowly build a reputation as a team thats tough to breakdown.

Love this tactic, i love defensive football and it was pleasing to see Torino philosophy is to play defensive football.  I've always wanted to create an "Diego Simione - Atheltico" story in another league and i think with this tactic i can do so with Torino. 

Diego Simione - Atheltico meaning a team that was mid table and then a manager took over and played solid defensive philosophy footy and took them to great heights.  This is what i plan to do with Torino!  

Great Tactic.

P.S. This is my first time ever commenting on a gaming forum in my life but i had to reach out and thank ya! 

[engamohd]

7 minutes ago, ta11zx said:

Currently using this tactic with FC Torino.  sitting mid table after a slow start (lost a lot of games 1-0 including 3-2 away to Juventus).  We have been on fire now and starting to slowly build a reputation as a team thats tough to breakdown.

Love this tactic, i love defensive football and it was pleasing to see Torino philosophy is to play defensive football.  I've always wanted to create an "Diego Simione - Atheltico" story in another league and i think with this tactic i can do so with Torino. 

Diego Simione - Atheltico meaning a team that was mid table and then a manager took over and played solid defensive philosophy footy and took them to great heights.  This is what i plan to do with Torino!  

Great Tactic.

P.S. This is my first time ever commenting on a gaming forum in my life but i had to reach out and thank ya! 

I am so glad it worked so well for you, with the right players you could go so far!

Could you share which version you did use? I have tweaked it many times.

Thank you, and welcome to the forums

[Shib0]

Can you post the final version of tactic you're using? @engamohd

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, Shib0 said:

Can you post the final version of tactic you're using? @engamohd

Am not using it right now, this was on FM20, and I deleted FM20, and still did not do a simar project on FM21.

[Domoboy23]

Are people using this on 21? Well this kind of ethos?

[yanloup64]

Yep, still using.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

would love it if @engamohdcould update those broken images in the OP!

[engamohd]

37 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

would love it if @engamohdcould update those broken images in the OP!

They all appear functional to me.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

57 minutes ago, engamohd said:

They all appear functional to me.

That's weird they are all broken for me. I can't see the images in your blog either. Anyone else reading this thread who can check?

[Experienced Defender]

7 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

That's weird they are all broken for me. I can't see the images in your blog either. Anyone else reading this thread who can check?

I normally see all the screenshots/images in the OP.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Really weird but I can see all the images in the mobile browser, just not on the desktop one. No worries I can just check this thread on mobile 

[engamohd]

12 minutes ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Really weird but I can see all the images in the mobile browser, just not on the desktop one. No worries I can just check this thread on mobile 

Clear the browser's cache on your desktop, that may fix the issue.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

just thought i'd update here with my progress using this tactic in FM2020

Started off at Northampton in League Two simply because with my somewhat limited knowledge of the league, I knew they had a few key players that would fit the formation well at the start so it wouldn't be such a struggle. Alan McCormack is a feisty albeit ageing BWM, Mark Marshall full of pace on the wing and a massive 6ft6 lump up front in Harry Smith. After starting with initial window disabled i was glad to see that they also have a strong defence with a lot of depth, a couple of good options to play BBM, a second TM and plenty of striking options to play as a Pressing Forward. I felt that reaching the top half would be more than achievable

.

Spoiler

First few games were quite a slog and aside from the nonsense Football League Trophy game against Plymouth i only grabbed the single scrappy goal or didn't score at all, but using the comprehensive highlights I was getting a lot of good visual feedback as to what i needed to do to change things. Firstly i noticed that my 2 CMs were basically just grabbing second balls and pumping it anywhere immediately and getting embarrasingly low match ratings (6.1, 6.2) because of it, so i've decided to give them both individual instructions of Shorter Passing with the intention of having them pass it to either one another, the full back alongside them or the winger rather than immediately back up to one of the strikers. The other fairly quick change i made was as a result of the Macclesfield game where as you can see i lost 3-0, a classic FM 25 shots vs 4 shots affair against a bottom of the table team who just smashed in random long rangers against the run of play, anyway I have pushed the defensive line higher in order to prevent those goals from happening again, and so far so good. 

Safe to say since the end of august, the team is clicking rather well and in quite a few games now i've scored a bunch of goals, including a few scummy set piece goals away from home where i always have Play for set pieces on without fail usually accompanied by a defensive or standard mentality if i'm feeling a bit adventurous. in fact the two games in september where i haven't scored, I have also had a man sent off early in the second half so they are not bad results indeed considering i usually sacrifice a striker in those situations.

Spoiler

The thing i really like about the OPs tactics are that they are incredibly simple, and that as they stated, a simple mentality change is all that is really needed to make the necessary changes to the team during a match, there really is no need to overcomplicate them or tinker them too much, which i guess really is the essence of this type of tactic in real life also.

Spoiler

Below i thought i'd post the analysis of my recent few games and you can clearly see the positives of this formation working as it's supposed to. solid defence restricting efforts in the penalty area plus an attacking which is creating plenty of chances in the area and scoring from those positions but with even more room for improvement! Another little thing i've tried based on the first point of negative feedback  regarding the goalscoring spells is if I am struggling to score, I change my BBM to be an AP-S to see if that makes them try and keep the ball a bit better and pick a better pass to build a better move. i'll update soon to see if that makes any difference. cheers!

 

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Wiggins Top Boys

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

just thought i'd update here with my progress using this tactic in FM2020

Started off at Northampton in League Two simply because with my somewhat limited knowledge of the league, I knew they had a few key players that would fit the formation well at the start so it wouldn't be such a struggle. Alan McCormack is a feisty albeit ageing BWM, Mark Marshall full of pace on the wing and a massive 6ft6 lump up front in Harry Smith. After starting with initial window disabled i was glad to see that they also have a strong defence with a lot of depth, a couple of good options to play BBM, a second TM and plenty of striking options to play as a Pressing Forward. I felt that reaching the top half would be more than achievable

.

  Hide contents

First few games were quite a slog and aside from the nonsense Football League Trophy game against Plymouth i only grabbed the single scrappy goal or didn't score at all, but using the comprehensive highlights I was getting a lot of good visual feedback as to what i needed to do to change things. Firstly i noticed that my 2 CMs were basically just grabbing second balls and pumping it anywhere immediately and getting embarrasingly low match ratings (6.1, 6.2) because of it, so i've decided to give them both individual instructions of Shorter Passing with the intention of having them pass it to either one another, the full back alongside them or the winger rather than immediately back up to one of the strikers. The other fairly quick change i made was as a result of the Macclesfield game where as you can see i lost 3-0, a classic FM 25 shots vs 4 shots affair against a bottom of the table team who just smashed in random long rangers against the run of play, anyway I have pushed the defensive line higher in order to prevent those goals from happening again, and so far so good. 

Safe to say since the end of august, the team is clicking rather well and in quite a few games now i've scored a bunch of goals, including a few scummy set piece goals away from home where i always have Play for set pieces on without fail usually accompanied by a defensive or standard mentality if i'm feeling a bit adventurous. in fact the two games in september where i haven't scored, I have also had a man sent off early in the second half so they are not bad results indeed considering i usually sacrifice a striker in those situations.

  Hide contents

The thing i really like about the OPs tactics are that they are incredibly simple, and that as they stated, a simple mentality change is all that is really needed to make the necessary changes to the team during a match, there really is no need to overcomplicate them or tinker them too much, which i guess really is the essence of this type of tactic in real life also.

  Hide contents

Below i thought i'd post the analysis of my recent few games and you can clearly see the positives of this formation working as it's supposed to. solid defence restricting efforts in the penalty area plus an attacking which is creating plenty of chances in the area and scoring from those positions but with even more room for improvement! Another little thing i've tried based on the first point of negative feedback  regarding the goalscoring spells is if I am struggling to score, I change my BBM to be an AP-S to see if that makes them try and keep the ball a bit better and pick a better pass to build a better move. i'll update soon to see if that makes any difference. cheers!

 

 

That's an incredible detailed post, with lots of good analysis. I am so glad you managed to get it firing well! 

Waiting for your next post..

[Ronaldo Beckham]

@engamohd I have decided to start a new save with Stoke and try replicate Pulisball like he did at Stoke. I am even managing Stoke as the legend that is Rory Delap.

I have a Rory Delap throw in special I downloaded from Steam Workshop but I want to try replicate what you have done for FM2021.

Here is the tactics I have done basically copying what you have done. Do these look right to you ?

Which one of these did you find the best ?

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, Ronaldo Beckham said:

@engamohd I have decided to start a new save with Stoke and try replicate Pulisball like he did at Stoke. I am even managing Stoke as the legend that is Rory Delap.

I have a Rory Delap throw in special I downloaded from Steam Workshop but I want to try replicate what you have done for FM2021.

Here is the tactics I have done basically copying what you have done. Do these look right to you ?

Which one of these did you find the best ?

I like the second one better, maybe try changing the BBM to a CM-S if he is caught out if possession.

[Ronaldo Beckham]

35 minutes ago, engamohd said:

I like the second one better, maybe try changing the BBM to a CM-S if he is caught out if possession.

Yeah I will try that. I also come across this tactic online inspired by the great Tony Pulis.

This is how it looks.

Edited January 24, 2021 by Experienced Defender
external link removed

[Wiggins Top Boys]

update 

4th with 13 games to go in League 2

P33 W16 D11 L6

22 (TWENTY TWO) shut outs.

wow.

[engamohd]

3 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

update 

4th with 13 games to go in League 2

P33 W16 D11 L6

22 (TWENTY TWO) shut outs.

wow.

Great progress there mate!

[TommyToxic]

I've read this thread and the previous hoofball thread. Thanks to everyone that contribute, it's great reading material! I've had a lot of success with my Stoke team. Finishing 1st in the championship, currently 7th in the PL after 24 matches. The idea is pretty simple, long balls to the AF who runs at goal, or to a more stationary TM who can protect the ball until support arrives. We play narrow so that forwards have close support after the long ball from defense or GK, this also means that we have lots of players in and around the box during attacks. OIs are set up to mark and press dangerous central players, while wide players are forced wide so they have to cross. I have very few PIs, the MR get further forward, and the fullbacks stay wide in possession and cross towards the TM. I stop telling them to cross it to the TM if he is marked by a CB with better aerial ability. I'm not sure if you would consider this a counter tactic or hoofball, the game atleast recognises me as playing route one.