A guide to direct long ball, antifootball play - A Dyche's Burnley inspired 4-4-2

[JoOSTAR]

46 minutes ago, TommyToxic said:

I've read this thread and the previous hoofball thread. Thanks to everyone that contribute, it's great reading material! I've had a lot of success with my Stoke team. Finishing 1st in the championship, currently 7th in the PL after 24 matches. The idea is pretty simple, long balls to the AF who runs at goal, or to a more stationary TM who can protect the ball until support arrives. We play narrow so that forwards have close support after the long ball from defense or GK, this also means that we have lots of players in and around the box during attacks. OIs are set up to mark and press dangerous central players, while wide players are forced wide so they have to cross. I have very few PIs, the MR get further forward, and the fullbacks stay wide in possession and cross towards the TM. I stop telling them to cross it to the TM if he is marked by a CB with better aerial ability. I'm not sure if you would consider this a counter tactic or hoofball, the game atleast recognises me as playing route one.

 

Looks great!

When do you play the Low LOE and when the High LOE?

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, TommyToxic said:

I've read this thread and the previous hoofball thread. Thanks to everyone that contribute, it's great reading material! I've had a lot of success with my Stoke team. Finishing 1st in the championship, currently 7th in the PL after 24 matches. The idea is pretty simple, long balls to the AF who runs at goal, or to a more stationary TM who can protect the ball until support arrives. We play narrow so that forwards have close support after the long ball from defense or GK, this also means that we have lots of players in and around the box during attacks. OIs are set up to mark and press dangerous central players, while wide players are forced wide so they have to cross. I have very few PIs, the MR get further forward, and the fullbacks stay wide in possession and cross towards the TM. I stop telling them to cross it to the TM if he is marked by a CB with better aerial ability. I'm not sure if you would consider this a counter tactic or hoofball, the game atleast recognises me as playing route one.

 

That is absolutely brilliant! Great job there! I like how you have a cautious and aggressive versions of the same style (Y)

[TommyToxic]

28 minutes ago, JoOSTAR said:

Looks great!

When do you play the Low LOE and when the High LOE?

I use the High LOE when I think I can actually win the ball higher up. I just tried to do it vs Man Utd after conceding an early pen, which resulted in them winning 3-0 because their players easily passed themself out of our press.  I naturally use low LOE more, since I'm almost always the weaker team in PL matches.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

In my Northampton save I lost 1-0 (penalty) in the play-off final

[JoOSTAR]

1 hour ago, TommyToxic said:

I use the High LOE when I think I can actually win the ball higher up. I just tried to do it vs Man Utd after conceding an early pen, which resulted in them winning 3-0 because their players easily passed themself out of our press.  I naturally use low LOE more, since I'm almost always the weaker team in PL matches.

Sounds logical yeah!

 

concerning the OI's, you put all AMC/MC/DMC on tight marking and pressing allways? And all the AML/ML/WBL/DL on left foot, and the right sided ones on right foot?

[TommyToxic]

1 hour ago, JoOSTAR said:

Sounds logical yeah!

 

concerning the OI's, you put all AMC/MC/DMC on tight marking and pressing allways? And all the AML/ML/WBL/DL on left foot, and the right sided ones on right foot?

Marking is situational except on AMC. Most important thing is just to keep players in the center to press, block and mark. Always force wide players wide yes. My logic is that I have to be able to defend against crosses with my big defenders, so forcing them wide and letting them cross is ok. They still manage to dribble inside, or assist from low crosses ofc, good players awlays find a way. I also give away a fair amount of set pieces, which is also unavoidable I think.

[TommyToxic]

It feels like parking the buss is much more viable this FM than in previous versions. The 22/23 season started with me playing Man Utd, Arsenal and Spurs. I expected three losses as I haven't done so well against big clubs. I decided to go with Much Lower LOE and Low DL. It's just been block after block after block. 0-0D, 4-1W, 1-2L was the results, and in the 1-2 loss I was in the lead until 84min.

[heutheo]

This tactic single-handedly destroyed medium possession based teams

I'm currently using it at Hamburg in Bundesliga 2, we are by far the best team in the league, but I wanted to try a different style and tried this 442 

Match Stats

Osnabrück isn't any good atm but they try to play a vertical tiki taka style, while beating any possession record of German football in recent history they didn't even shoot once

Bryan Henning (in Osnabrück he is called Xavi) managed to complete 252 passes in this game which led to a clean 10.0 rating

this tactic is doing well atm

I plan to do some adjustments when i get promoted to Bundesliga, but until then I'm going to have much fun at destroying the league

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

[heutheo]

1 hour ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

in some scenarios the attacking mentality leads to risky pressing maneuvers of the central midfielders, that's why I'd decrease the mentality a bit, but I like the high risk direct passing a lot

and i think that faster CB are needed, better opponents tend to play one-twos and simply knock out my defense, but to even get into the space where one-twos become a problem, a misplay by one of the CM is needed. So I think I could also fix that by decreasing the mentality 

[SCCP1910]

13 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Absolutely love the tactic. Got promoted from league two in my second season and am now on the verge of promotion from league one in the very next season despite having a small squad and budget.

One change I've made since my last update is to have my default mentality as defensive, but with tempo set to higher, I also set 'use tighter marking' on against stronger teams. I found that when I was set to balanced or positive that I would dominate weak teams but lose cheap goals on the counter and get well beaten by better teams so to be defensively solid was a priority

Trying out the attacking mentality tactic was so frustrating, I'd be on the front foot all game with some magnificent attacking play and concede because of (ironically) a long ball over the top. As soon as I switched to cautious I was much more solid, even with the high lines and tempo. There's also the issue that my squad is more suited for a possession style, but where's the fun in that?

Edited March 5, 2021 by SCCP1910

[Oakland Stomper]

18 hours ago, heutheo said:

This tactic single-handedly destroyed medium possession based teams

I'm currently using it at Hamburg in Bundesliga 2, we are by far the best team in the league, but I wanted to try a different style and tried this 442 

Match Stats

Osnabrück isn't any good atm but they try to play a vertical tiki taka style, while beating any possession record of German football in recent history they didn't even shoot once

Bryan Henning (in Osnabrück he is called Xavi) managed to complete 252 passes in this game which led to a clean 10.0 rating

this tactic is doing well atm

I plan to do some adjustments when i get promoted to Bundesliga, but until then I'm going to have much fun at destroying the league

Which version of the tactic are you using? Combing back through the thread it appears to have evolved. 

[Wiggins Top Boys]

my latest tweaks fwiw

the only individual instructions remain the two centre midfielders as pass it shorter

and Use Tighter Marking & Play for set pieces are optional depending on opponent.

4 games to go? can i get a consecutive promotion?

[latrell]

This tactic and style really reminds me of CM 03/04 with the big mitre ball on the front cover where the only formation that in my mind was successful was 442 i had Romario n Edmundo playing upfront for Ipswich save  in the championship got promoted through the play offs.

[Christopher S]

20 hours ago, Wiggins Top Boys said:

my latest tweaks fwiw

the only individual instructions remain the two centre midfielders as pass it shorter

and Use Tighter Marking & Play for set pieces are optional depending on opponent.

4 games to go? can i get a consecutive promotion?

There's something weirdly bizarre in seeing you in first place, without having a top 3 scorer, avg rating or assist representative. 

[heutheo]

On 23/10/2020 at 22:13, engamohd said:

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Edited March 7, 2021 by heutheo
defensive wingers

[Oakland Stomper]

11 hours ago, heutheo said:

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Thanks for the reply heutheo. 

Defensive Wingers are an under appreciated role in FM, especially in attacking/positive tactics. I miss being able to place them in the AML/R slots. 

[yanloup64]

14 hours ago, heutheo said:

@Oakland StomperI'm currently using this one, sometimes I play with a Much Higher DL and SKa cause of Sven Ulreich who's capable of dealing with One-on-ones

and I removed the time waste instruction, I usually lower the tempo and switch to shorter passing when matches are close in the 70s and further

 

imo defensive wingers are key, having Jatta left and Narey right, both very hardworking players going up and down their flanks

Agree. They are versatile (those I'm adjusting when I'm behind) and allow me to defend narrow. 

Edited March 8, 2021 by yanloup64

[Wiggins Top Boys]

On 06/03/2021 at 13:29, Christopher S said:

There's something weirdly bizarre in seeing you in first place, without having a top 3 scorer, avg rating or assist representative. 

Goals from all over the pitch though, the wingers have really contributed well

 

 

my top goalscorer is joint 6th in the chart, AvR - 4th and Assists - joiny 8th. so not far off

[Wiggins Top Boys]

the spirit

[Pelz]

@Wiggins Top Boys- Ollie Palmer is such a monster, couldn’t imagine my Wimbledon side without him 

[Djeon36]

What do you guys think about using this tactic in fm22 since they made lowblocks better

 

[engamohd]

I decided to revive this style in FM22, applying it with Fulham to test and develop before going to the Prem. This is what I am using at the moment:

 

 

[halfspace3000]

23 hours ago, engamohd said:

I decided to revive this style in FM22, applying it with Fulham to test and develop before going to the Prem. This is what I am using at the moment:

 

 

how is the season going for you?

[engamohd]

17 hours ago, halfspace3000 said:

how is the season going for you?

A bit up and down, and I am still tweaking, and considering going to a 442. Biggest issue is lack of performances and goals/assists from Mitrovic.

[engamohd]

Doing well so far, just adding the Play Wider instruction to stretch opponents. Of course, I change it in game, but thats how I start most games.

[Djeon36]

So after a few years of playing FM and getting myself into the rabbit hole of football tactics, I've finally created my own Dyche inspired 442. This is derived from tons of research on FM Fourms, Youtube Videos, and online articles on Dycheball and the art of the 442 tactic. By all means this tactic is not the final one made but I think I have most of the parts down. I was thinking about making this my own post but in honor of this thread that started my Dyche ball craze, I'll post here. 

 

So here is my tactic!!! I went with Bournemouth due to the rumors that Dyche might be the next manager there. Also this squad is pretty similar to Burnley back when Dyche was in charge so it makes sense to try to replicate his style. There are many PI's I put into here so I'll talk about them.

GK

I use a regular SK on Defense with no PI. I want him to sit back and launch those long balls to the moon to our strikers. The goal is to try to get them to the front as fast as possible. I would recommend a GK with good passing and vision. Travers seems to be ok for this role but im sure you guys can find better GK's. If you stick with him make sure you train his vision more. 

CB

So for my CB's I went with a regular CD and a BPD with PI's dribble less, I want him to sit back and ping long balls to our strikers who can flick headers to supporting midfielders. I feel like Burnley's CB's don't venture or dribble too far up as they like to stay back and defend. If you don't have a BPD you can do either two CD or NCB. I haven't tried NCB's yet let me know how it works for you guys if you try it out.

 

Full Backs

Now Full backs are a bit tricky since there isn't too much about how they play. I did a WB on support on the right side so it can make overlapping runs which is something Dyche did with Lowton as the RW would tuck in leaving space for him to run forward. I have Cross More Often, Cross From the byline, Shoot less, and Stay wider on in order to encourage him to overlap as much as possible. The Left back is just a traditional FB on support with cross more often, shoot less, and hold position. I want him to sit back to cover his attacking winger and cross from deep. Dyche likes to have one of his FB to stay in place during the defensive phase to provide more defensive solidity since his other WB is up the pitch overlapping. I'm not sure if I should leave this as it is or change it to a FB on Defend. Let me know if you guys think a FB on Defend is the better move.

CM

The CM's was probably the hardest part of this tactic I couldn't figure out. Unlike the FBs, I could barley find anything about them except like one sentence from a youtube video. The BWM on defend is the easy one and is a no brainer since Dyche uses Jack Cork as a BWM who would hold position and aim to win the ball. In FM this works well with the IW on the right since the BWM on defend drops deeper giving space for the IW to run in front of him. I have mark tighter as a PI for him. The left CM is the position that I'm stuck on. Normally Ashley Westwood is used for his great passing and vision to make some great passes to the strikers and venture a bit ahead of the holding midfielder. I don't like DLP because of how he would drop back deep to collect the ball from the CB's when our main goal is to punt the ball to the strikers and collect the 2nd ball from them. I decided to use a CM on support since it seems the closest role to me with take more risks, cross more often, shoot less often, tackle harder, and mark tighter. I want this guy to utilize his passing and defensive ability. I'm not sure if a BBM would work since he doesn't focus on passing much like a DLP and just runs up and down the midfield. I leave this position up to you guys to see which one works best and fits the "Westwood" role better. 

Wingers

Wingers are pretty straight forward. The RW is a IW on support to cover the deep BWM. I have shoot less often, sit narrower, and mark tighter on. I might add cross from deep and cross more often but I'm not sure how often the RW would cross. I think they're used to collect the 2nd ball from the TF once he wins the header and pass it on to the overlapping WB. The LW is a traditional attacking winger which is what Dwight Mcneil played. The role pretty much suits perfectly what I need only I added shoot less often and mark tighter on. Dwight would pretty much run wide and cross from the byline to the TM who would be in the box and attack on his own. Sometimes Mcneil would cut in and play like a IW on the left when he has the ball and has more license to dribble. In order to get a player to play like that when he has the ball, I would recommend training the player to have the trait "like to cut in from the left" this will naturally make the player cut in from the left when he he's dribbling with the ball even if he's on a winger role but also sometimes stick to his assigned PI's. RDF made a recent video about this which really explains a lot.

Strikers

Now strikers is up to interpretation and I did take some liberties to change the roles to fit my team better. I'll start with the 2nd biggest headache for me making this tactic and it was the role of the TM. During Chris Wood's time in Burnley, he was the big man for this team and would mainly fulfill the roles as a TM and had the most goals scored on the team. Almost all of the long balls would be played to him and he would win the header, and flick it off to a supporting player. However, as soon as he flicks the ball off, he would immediately run into the box to receive the cross and head the ball in. Trying to replicate this in FM is hard due to the TM sitting so deep. I decided to do TM on attack for now since he's a TM but doesn't sit too deep and tries to fancy some scoring chances for himself. I have seen other tactics that would utilize him as a Poacher but I am not sure if a poacher would try to drop down to win headers like a TM would do. I'd like to see what the FM community thinks about this and I can make some changes to see what's better. For PI's I made him move into channels and mark tighter. The other forward is a regular AF with mark tighter which is not that Dyche used but it fits Solanke well so I just left it at that. Normally I believe a PF on Attack would suit the Dyche style better. 

Team Instructions

Now for team instructions and mentality, I am struggling a lot on.  I think that  the Cautious mentality works best since its made for teams to do a direct counter attack, but if you have any better ideas I'm all ears. You can do either Narrow or Very Narrow shape but I prefer very narrow since you want your team to stay compact to gather the 2nd ball after your TF wins its header. I've been experimenting if I should leave pass into space on or off and have no clue which is better so ill leave that up to you guys. Same thing with the tempo and passing directness, you can either make the passing directness more direct or extremely direct and the tempo from higher or standard. I don't like much higher tempo since it doesn't give time for your team to get into position and allow the WB to start its overlapping run. Early crosses is a no brainer and I like play for set pieces since we can use our teams height advantage much better during set pieces. I like Hit early crosses since that's kind of what Dyche does. Finally be more disciplined allows the team to stick to their positions and not do any fancy rotating or positional play. Remember this is Dyche ball were talking about not some elegant Pep like play. In transition, I put on counter press since Burnley surprisingly presses more than you think. They don't just like to sit back and soak up pressure, they press when the ball is high up on the pitch and then fall back into a compress low block once the ball is lost (which is hard to create in FM). I put slow pace down to allow some time for my players to get into position once the ball is on the GK feet but I might change it into nothing. Like I said earlier, Burnley tend to press pretty high with their two strikers pressing the opposition CB quite heavily so I have the Line on higher and the defensive line on standard to allow the team to fall back once the initial press doesn't work. I also put Trigger press at the highest since they press pretty hard

 

There are still many things that I am working out but would love everyone to try this tactic out and make some changes to see what works better. Here is an overall list of stuff that I'm experimenting and encourage you guys to try it out. Happy FMing!!!

Consider Changing...

• Both CD into NCB. I think this might suit the Burnley style better since NCB are hard coded to pass more directly and to stay behind
• Try to make the left FB on support or defend mostly it need to just hold position.
• Make the right WB to overlap and cross early
• The CM(s) position, either DLP on support or BBM. I realized that you need to swap the CM positions since the BWM on defend is too far away from the TF to collect the 2nd ball. 
• The TF position poacher or TF??????
• Team Mentality from Cautious to Balanced or Positive.
• Pass into space or naaahhhh
• Focus playing on the right and left flank on! I realized I forgot to mention this since Dyche ball like to play on the wings 
• Passing directness and tempo
• GK to distribute quickly or slower or neither.
• Distribute to target man. Change it to specifically kick it to the TF/Poacher I realized that if you do distribute to target man with poahcer, the GK just randomly kicks the ball long not really aiming for anyone.
• Defensive and Pressing lines up to you guys tbh. 

Once again thank you to @engamohd for this wonderful thread. I found it to be very helpful and I wouldn't have gone down this rabbit hole if it wasn't for you

[engamohd]

14 hours ago, Djeon36 said:

So after a few years of playing FM and getting myself into the rabbit hole of football tactics, I've finally created my own Dyche inspired 442. This is derived from tons of research on FM Fourms, Youtube Videos, and online articles on Dycheball and the art of the 442 tactic. By all means this tactic is not the final one made but I think I have most of the parts down. I was thinking about making this my own post but in honor of this thread that started my Dyche ball craze, I'll post here. 

 

So here is my tactic!!! I went with Bournemouth due to the rumors that Dyche might be the next manager there. Also this squad is pretty similar to Burnley back when Dyche was in charge so it makes sense to try to replicate his style. There are many PI's I put into here so I'll talk about them.

GK

I use a regular SK on Defense with no PI. I want him to sit back and launch those long balls to the moon to our strikers. The goal is to try to get them to the front as fast as possible. I would recommend a GK with good passing and vision. Travers seems to be ok for this role but im sure you guys can find better GK's. If you stick with him make sure you train his vision more. 

CB

So for my CB's I went with a regular CD and a BPD with PI's dribble less, I want him to sit back and ping long balls to our strikers who can flick headers to supporting midfielders. I feel like Burnley's CB's don't venture or dribble too far up as they like to stay back and defend. If you don't have a BPD you can do either two CD or NCB. I haven't tried NCB's yet let me know how it works for you guys if you try it out.

 

Full Backs

Now Full backs are a bit tricky since there isn't too much about how they play. I did a WB on support on the right side so it can make overlapping runs which is something Dyche did with Lowton as the RW would tuck in leaving space for him to run forward. I have Cross More Often, Cross From the byline, Shoot less, and Stay wider on in order to encourage him to overlap as much as possible. The Left back is just a traditional FB on support with cross more often, shoot less, and hold position. I want him to sit back to cover his attacking winger and cross from deep. Dyche likes to have one of his FB to stay in place during the defensive phase to provide more defensive solidity since his other WB is up the pitch overlapping. I'm not sure if I should leave this as it is or change it to a FB on Defend. Let me know if you guys think a FB on Defend is the better move.

CM

The CM's was probably the hardest part of this tactic I couldn't figure out. Unlike the FBs, I could barley find anything about them except like one sentence from a youtube video. The BWM on defend is the easy one and is a no brainer since Dyche uses Jack Cork as a BWM who would hold position and aim to win the ball. In FM this works well with the IW on the right since the BWM on defend drops deeper giving space for the IW to run in front of him. I have mark tighter as a PI for him. The left CM is the position that I'm stuck on. Normally Ashley Westwood is used for his great passing and vision to make some great passes to the strikers and venture a bit ahead of the holding midfielder. I don't like DLP because of how he would drop back deep to collect the ball from the CB's when our main goal is to punt the ball to the strikers and collect the 2nd ball from them. I decided to use a CM on support since it seems the closest role to me with take more risks, cross more often, shoot less often, tackle harder, and mark tighter. I want this guy to utilize his passing and defensive ability. I'm not sure if a BBM would work since he doesn't focus on passing much like a DLP and just runs up and down the midfield. I leave this position up to you guys to see which one works best and fits the "Westwood" role better. 

Wingers

Wingers are pretty straight forward. The RW is a IW on support to cover the deep BWM. I have shoot less often, sit narrower, and mark tighter on. I might add cross from deep and cross more often but I'm not sure how often the RW would cross. I think they're used to collect the 2nd ball from the TF once he wins the header and pass it on to the overlapping WB. The LW is a traditional attacking winger which is what Dwight Mcneil played. The role pretty much suits perfectly what I need only I added shoot less often and mark tighter on. Dwight would pretty much run wide and cross from the byline to the TM who would be in the box and attack on his own. Sometimes Mcneil would cut in and play like a IW on the left when he has the ball and has more license to dribble. In order to get a player to play like that when he has the ball, I would recommend training the player to have the trait "like to cut in from the left" this will naturally make the player cut in from the left when he he's dribbling with the ball even if he's on a winger role but also sometimes stick to his assigned PI's. RDF made a recent video about this which really explains a lot.

Strikers

Now strikers is up to interpretation and I did take some liberties to change the roles to fit my team better. I'll start with the 2nd biggest headache for me making this tactic and it was the role of the TM. During Chris Wood's time in Burnley, he was the big man for this team and would mainly fulfill the roles as a TM and had the most goals scored on the team. Almost all of the long balls would be played to him and he would win the header, and flick it off to a supporting player. However, as soon as he flicks the ball off, he would immediately run into the box to receive the cross and head the ball in. Trying to replicate this in FM is hard due to the TM sitting so deep. I decided to do TM on attack for now since he's a TM but doesn't sit too deep and tries to fancy some scoring chances for himself. I have seen other tactics that would utilize him as a Poacher but I am not sure if a poacher would try to drop down to win headers like a TM would do. I'd like to see what the FM community thinks about this and I can make some changes to see what's better. For PI's I made him move into channels and mark tighter. The other forward is a regular AF with mark tighter which is not that Dyche used but it fits Solanke well so I just left it at that. Normally I believe a PF on Attack would suit the Dyche style better. 

Team Instructions

Now for team instructions and mentality, I am struggling a lot on.  I think that  the Cautious mentality works best since its made for teams to do a direct counter attack, but if you have any better ideas I'm all ears. You can do either Narrow or Very Narrow shape but I prefer very narrow since you want your team to stay compact to gather the 2nd ball after your TF wins its header. I've been experimenting if I should leave pass into space on or off and have no clue which is better so ill leave that up to you guys. Same thing with the tempo and passing directness, you can either make the passing directness more direct or extremely direct and the tempo from higher or standard. I don't like much higher tempo since it doesn't give time for your team to get into position and allow the WB to start its overlapping run. Early crosses is a no brainer and I like play for set pieces since we can use our teams height advantage much better during set pieces. I like Hit early crosses since that's kind of what Dyche does. Finally be more disciplined allows the team to stick to their positions and not do any fancy rotating or positional play. Remember this is Dyche ball were talking about not some elegant Pep like play. In transition, I put on counter press since Burnley surprisingly presses more than you think. They don't just like to sit back and soak up pressure, they press when the ball is high up on the pitch and then fall back into a compress low block once the ball is lost (which is hard to create in FM). I put slow pace down to allow some time for my players to get into position once the ball is on the GK feet but I might change it into nothing. Like I said earlier, Burnley tend to press pretty high with their two strikers pressing the opposition CB quite heavily so I have the Line on higher and the defensive line on standard to allow the team to fall back once the initial press doesn't work. I also put Trigger press at the highest since they press pretty hard

 

There are still many things that I am working out but would love everyone to try this tactic out and make some changes to see what works better. Here is an overall list of stuff that I'm experimenting and encourage you guys to try it out. Happy FMing!!!

Consider Changing...

• Both CD into NCB. I think this might suit the Burnley style better since NCB are hard coded to pass more directly and to stay behind
• Try to make the left FB on support or defend mostly it need to just hold position.
• Make the right WB to overlap and cross early
• The CM(s) position, either DLP on support or BBM. I realized that you need to swap the CM positions since the BWM on defend is too far away from the TF to collect the 2nd ball. 
• The TF position poacher or TF??????
• Team Mentality from Cautious to Balanced or Positive.
• Pass into space or naaahhhh
• Focus playing on the right and left flank on! I realized I forgot to mention this since Dyche ball like to play on the wings 
• Passing directness and tempo
• GK to distribute quickly or slower or neither.
• Distribute to target man. Change it to specifically kick it to the TF/Poacher I realized that if you do distribute to target man with poahcer, the GK just randomly kicks the ball long not really aiming for anyone.
• Defensive and Pressing lines up to you guys tbh. 

Once again thank you to @engamohd for this wonderful thread. I found it to be very helpful and I wouldn't have gone down this rabbit hole if it wasn't for you

Thank you a lot for your appreciation, I am so happy that you have found my work helpful!

Also regarding your detailed post, I like your interpretation, but I feel it is a bit much with the TIs, however, I'm very interested to see how this goes before changing anything. You actually made me want to go to the 4-4-2 rather than the 4-2-3-1 in my Fulham save

[Djeon36]

1 hour ago, engamohd said:

Thank you a lot for your appreciation, I am so happy that you have found my work helpful!

Also regarding your detailed post, I like your interpretation, but I feel it is a bit much with the TIs, however, I'm very interested to see how this goes before changing anything. You actually made me want to go to the 4-4-2 rather than the 4-2-3-1 in my Fulham save

Go for it! I'm probably going to make a brand new save with this tactic. It took me a while and a lot of experimenting to try to find what works and doesn't. Once I can get some better details down, I can make a pt 2 to this topic. I'd love to see what you think of the changes I proposed? How does it work for you, what do you see in ways that this tactic can improve? 

[Tsuru]

I love this thread and the idea of playing direct proactive football, as I have said here before.

However...

This approach has not work very well for me in FM 21. We played some great matches, however against packed defences we suffered to create good opportunities. Also we were very vulnerable to opponents´ attacks, even against weak teams that should pose us no real threat. 

I don´t think the approach itself is the problem, because I also tested your other ideas about direct/counter football (the ones that started with a 4-4-1-1) and it did work well, maybe my team is not simple suited for a direct, proactive style. The assistant recommends that we play more on counter approaches so yeah, maybe it is just the players that I have.

[Wiggins Top Boys]

Just wanted to update from my old posts in this thread to say i've had a fantastic career on FM20 with this as a base. starting off at Northampton and slowly developing the tactic to suit the different football and player types in different regions, but sticking to the core principles of the 442 high tempo direct football. Looking forward to doing something similar in FM23 as i've finally gone and bought a new FM

My career with this tactic

Stoke did not go well

[engamohd]

On 26/10/2022 at 10:56, Wiggins Top Boys said:

Just wanted to update from my old posts in this thread to say i've had a fantastic career on FM20 with this as a base. starting off at Northampton and slowly developing the tactic to suit the different football and player types in different regions, but sticking to the core principles of the 442 high tempo direct football. Looking forward to doing something similar in FM23 as i've finally gone and bought a new FM

My career with this tactic

Stoke did not go well

Thats brilliant! I am so glad to see this kind of success with a direct high tempo 4-4-2!

[lied90]

I'm rekindling this thread, we pulisball lovers need a thread to call home.

I've used the editor to quickly test the state of pulisball in FM24, I welcome others to do the same!

- Took charge of Bournemouth
- Used the editor to transfer in players that suited the style I wanted
- Used the editor to maximize tactical familiarity, and to remove injures from key players.
- Holiday mode for 1-2 months, quickly reviewed some matches, holiday again etc.

Tactic:

- Structured tactic with clear roles, attackers attack, defenders defend.
- Wingers and forwards have adjusted passing one notch down (making it slightly more direct or standard?)
- Fullbacks told to cross from deep, CBs clear it long, GK aim for the TF.
- Volante role to get a player closer to our TF, for winning second balls.
- Narrow width to win more second balls.
- High line mid block on defensive mentality to be narrow and compact in defense.
- Low pressing to maintain shape.
- Long throws and first post corners.
- CBs press more to attempt to close down long shots.

Stats and screenshots:

Average possession: 37%
Pass completion: 79% (second lowest)
Headers won ratio: 53% (second highest)
Goals from corners: 10 (4th highest)
Crosses completed: 174 (second)
Clearances: 696 (7th highest)
Interceptions: 844 (4th highest)
Blocks: 201 (7th highest)

Observations:

- GK routinely launch the ball to our TF as instructed when taking a goal kick, however, when he kicks it as a part of open play he often kicks it to our small wingers for some reason.

- Long throws work and results in goals/dangerous situations. I don't know of any stat to confirm this.

- NFB almost never cross the ball. Diakite played 40 games, completed 6 crosses (12%). Which means that he attempted 50 crosses, and that means he attempted 1.25 crosses per game!!! This seems insanely low with deep crosses and Much more direct passing.

- Our FB (d) in comparison attempted 3.10 crosses per game.

- Lofted crosses seems to work as expected when observing, our TF is getting lots of high crosses towards him from our wingers.

 

 

[Domoboy23]

1 hour ago, lied90 said:

I'm rekindling this thread, we pulisball lovers need a thread to call home.

I've used the editor to quickly test the state of pulisball in FM24, I welcome others to do the same!

- Took charge of Bournemouth
- Used the editor to transfer in players that suited the style I wanted
- Used the editor to maximize tactical familiarity, and to remove injures from key players.
- Holiday mode for 1-2 months, quickly reviewed some matches, holiday again etc.

Tactic:

- Structured tactic with clear roles, attackers attack, defenders defend.
- Wingers and forwards have adjusted passing one notch down (making it slightly more direct or standard?)
- Fullbacks told to cross from deep, CBs clear it long, GK aim for the TF.
- Volante role to get a player closer to our TF, for winning second balls.
- Narrow width to win more second balls.
- High line mid block on defensive mentality to be narrow and compact in defense.
- Low pressing to maintain shape.
- Long throws and first post corners.
- CBs press more to attempt to close down long shots.

Stats and screenshots:

Average possession: 37%
Pass completion: 79% (second lowest)
Headers won ratio: 53% (second highest)
Goals from corners: 10 (4th highest)
Crosses completed: 174 (second)
Clearances: 696 (7th highest)
Interceptions: 844 (4th highest)
Blocks: 201 (7th highest)

Observations:

- GK routinely launch the ball to our TF as instructed when taking a goal kick, however, when he kicks it as a part of open play he often kicks it to our small wingers for some reason.

- Long throws work and results in goals/dangerous situations. I don't know of any stat to confirm this.

- NFB almost never cross the ball. Diakite played 40 games, completed 6 crosses (12%). Which means that he attempted 50 crosses, and that means he attempted 1.25 crosses per game!!! This seems insanely low with deep crosses and Much more direct passing.

- Our FB (d) in comparison attempted 3.10 crosses per game.

- Lofted crosses seems to work as expected when observing, our TF is getting lots of high crosses towards him from our wingers.

 

 

Hi, thanks for this.

Please could you post the table in a detalied view so we can see conceded and also a list of the fixture results?

[lied90]

6 minutes ago, Domoboy23 said:

Hi, thanks for this.

Please could you post the table in a detalied view so we can see conceded and also a list of the fixture results?

[lied90]

For season two I decided to test a flat 442 with the same roles (just switched volante for b2b). Upped the def line to compact the space more, making up for the lack of DMs. I ended up being relegated and sacked. The difference in results is rather staggering considering how similar the tactics are.

Results: