Trying to achieve my idea - 4231 - FM19

[Delial]

Hi everyone,

Just to let you know that before opening this thread, I've read many of those who are already open to reach my goal.

So, watching the horrible game they're playing these days, I wanted to start a new save with my favourite team, Olympique de Marseille.

I want to create an effective 4231. I want possession but not for the sake of it because I want to play an attacking game with many ways to score goals. I want my team to press in 442 and when they have to defend in their side of the pitch, to defend in 4141. During the buildup, I want my team to play pretty narrow, with wingers coming inside to create space for the wing back.

 

First, I want to build my team around one player : Maxime Lopez. I'm gutted this player is not having the carreer I wished for him to have because, IMO, he could be a wonderful player if used smartly. I want him to be my main (and only) playmaker. But I don't know if it's better for him to be the kind of PM that is pretty static beyond the CB, organising the game from deep, or to be a moving playmaker from deep, such as a regista. What do you think regarding his abilities?

Depending on what kind of PM he would be, I will pair him with a more static DM, probably Rongier, or with more attack minded one, such as a B2B, a CM(S) or a Volante. Here are the three players that are in balance, let me know which one suits the best.

Now my other issue is regarding the AMC slot. I don't want him to be a playmaker who leads the attack. I don't want a player who makes a lot of run with the ball, I want someone who can play simple but always right. During the buildup, I want him to help the middlefield and in the last third, I want him to play as a second striker, who is going to give a lot of assists and sometimes score because he's going to be at the right place at the right time. I don't know what role with which PI's I can give to do that and which player suits the best for what I want. Here are the two players in balance.

My forward has to be a real goal threat. I want him to help during the build up If he can but I mostly want him to score and to form a great pair with my AMC. Also, I want someone who can press at high intensity. I have two players for this role.

 

Finally, my main score threat and my best scorer for now is the tremendous Florian Thauvin, who plays as an Inside forward. Such a great player, I want to give him a total freedom to score a lot of goals and to mess defences.

 

I hope I gave enough information for you guys to help me achieving my idea. For now, I started a save and I'm not satisfied. We have a way to big possession (between 65% and 70%) even against PSG, but we're not scoring enough (only 2 wins with 1-0 and a lot of 1-1 or 0-0). And when I tried to score more, I have like 35 shots but only 6 or 7 are at target. Let me know if you need more. Thanks a lot in advance!

[Experienced Defender]

5 hours ago, Delial said:

For now, I started a save and I'm not satisfied. We have a way to big possession (between 65% and 70%) even against PSG, but we're not scoring enough (only 2 wins with 1-0 and a lot of 1-1 or 0-0). And when I tried to score more, I have like 35 shots but only 6 or 7 are at target. Let me know if you need more

Yes, we need to see a screenshot of your current tactic (i.e. the one you are not satisfied with). Player profiles are useful, but only in conjunction with the tactic. 

[Delial]

Thank you for your answer!

Here is the tactic:

 

Rongier isn't a very good DLP but for now he's doing the job. Sanson as an AMC is performing way better than Miranchuk.

I really want Lopez to be my main PM, my most important player and he's doing ok for now, but he didn't manage to give any assists or to score any goals.

My main scorer are Payet, Thauvin and Sanson. Both of my striker scored only 1 goal in 20 games.

My left WB isn't performing well enough also.

I know that I don't have top class players but, IMO, they could better. So I think my tactic isn't good enough. Right now I'm 3rd in championship but I rarely win away and don't feel my team controling the game. A lot of possession but we are taking too much stupid goals IMO.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Delial

[GianniM]

On 30/10/2020 at 13:55, Delial said:

But I don't know if it's better for him to be the kind of PM that is pretty static beyond the CB, organising the game from deep, or to be a moving playmaker from deep, such as a regista. What do you think regarding his abilities?

That's a guy with great potential there 

His technique, passing, vision and dribbling are very good. But his defensive side isn't (positioning, tackling, strength). So if you were to play him in the DM spot, he'd best be a Regista imo. But given his lack of defensive skills, I think you better play him as an Advanced playmaker. Although in the AMC spot he'll be likely to be marked out of the game, so you may want to retrain him into an AML. I love playmakers on the wing, especially with a WBa behind him. 

[Delial]

il y a 23 minutes, GianniM a dit :

That's a guy with great potential there 

His technique, passing, vision and dribbling are very good. But his defensive side isn't (positioning, tackling, strength). So if you were to play him in the DM spot, he'd best be a Regista imo. But given his lack of defensive skills, I think you better play him as an Advanced playmaker. Although in the AMC spot he'll be likely to be marked out of the game, so you may want to retrain him into an AML. I love playmakers on the wing, especially with a WBa behind him. 

Yeah I know that he could be an outstanding player upfront but his lack of physical attributes are problematic for the way I want to play. Plus, I prefer my playmaker to start from deep. In a nutshell, I want him to be my Thiago Alcantara haha

[sporadicsmiles]

There are good points to this tactics, and some weak points. 

Let's start with the good. I like the roles and duties of the striker, right winger and attacking midfielder. You are creating movement there, which should allow people to get free on that side when you are attacking. This is a nice way to set up players here. The defenders also seem to have a nice setup here. 

Now for the problems. The biggest is your midfield, particularly having two defensive midfielders with those roles are going to really isolate your attackers from the midfield and the defence. This will lead to a lack of support. Using two playmaker roles is entirely overkill here, it will keep the ball but it will likely do little with it. When using DMCs you can afford to be a little bit more adventurous with these roles. Your left winger does not seem to have had much thought into the role. The use of very narrow width does not seem to make sense here either.

What would I change? Well let's start with the good things in your attack. You are creating movement there, so lets support it. Overloading that area of the pitch will draw players into that area, which will create space elsewhere. So let's exploit the space. For example, having the left winger as a W(S) will stretch the field here. Either you force the defensive line of the AI teams to also stretch to match (which will help find space for the AMC and AMR, or they will leave your winger in space. Which will also be dangerous. For this reason you should also stop playing narrow. You are creating space in the middle and overloading there, so no not draw everyone into that region. Force the AI to cover all the pitch. 

Similarly, the DLP(D) is really not needed here I think. You need a role that will link your play. In particularly you want someone who is going to link the area of overload and the left wing, which will again cause issues in terms of marking players. This role you would have to explore, there are many ways of doing this. 

[Delial]

il y a 11 minutes, sporadicsmiles a dit :

There are good points to this tactics, and some weak points. 

Let's start with the good. I like the roles and duties of the striker, right winger and attacking midfielder. You are creating movement there, which should allow people to get free on that side when you are attacking. This is a nice way to set up players here. The defenders also seem to have a nice setup here. 

Now for the problems. The biggest is your midfield, particularly having two defensive midfielders with those roles are going to really isolate your attackers from the midfield and the defence. This will lead to a lack of support. Using two playmaker roles is entirely overkill here, it will keep the ball but it will likely do little with it. When using DMCs you can afford to be a little bit more adventurous with these roles. Your left winger does not seem to have had much thought into the role. The use of very narrow width does not seem to make sense here either.

What would I change? Well let's start with the good things in your attack. You are creating movement there, so lets support it. Overloading that area of the pitch will draw players into that area, which will create space elsewhere. So let's exploit the space. For example, having the left winger as a W(S) will stretch the field here. Either you force the defensive line of the AI teams to also stretch to match (which will help find space for the AMC and AMR, or they will leave your winger in space. Which will also be dangerous. For this reason you should also stop playing narrow. You are creating space in the middle and overloading there, so no not draw everyone into that region. Force the AI to cover all the pitch. 

Similarly, the DLP(D) is really not needed here I think. You need a role that will link your play. In particularly you want someone who is going to link the area of overload and the left wing, which will again cause issues in terms of marking players. This role you would have to explore, there are many ways of doing this. 

Thank you for your answer mate.
I want to play narrow following @Rashidi's advices to play a vertical tiki taka. Focus in the middle in order to create space on the wing for my WB to rush into it. Plus, I like when my winger are pretty inside, alongside the AMC to overload the middle. You know what I mean?

Regarding my midfield, I thought that my Regista was the linking one and that, maybe, I would have need a more defensive one on his side. What do you think?

[Experienced Defender]

2 hours ago, Delial said:

This is actually a deep 4231 (with DMs), not the standard version. 

Not sure what style of play you are trying to implement with this tactic and what's the reasoning behind very narrow width (especially with both wide forwards in an inside-oriented role + a conservative FB role on the right flank) as well as 2 playmaker roles (DLP and REG) literally next to each other? 

[Delial]

il y a une heure, Experienced Defender a dit :

This is actually a deep 4231 (with DMs), not the standard version. 

Not sure what style of play you are trying to implement with this tactic and what's the reasoning behind very narrow width (especially with both wide forwards in an inside-oriented role + a conservative FB role on the right flank) as well as 2 playmaker roles (DLP and REG) literally next to each other? 

The very narrow style was picked following a video by Rashidi where he explains that it helps runs from the WBs. I like my winger to attack the half spaces so I thought that it would work that way. Let me know if you have any idea to implement that style of play. The DLP+REG was picked only because Rongier was performing a bit better as a DLP rather than a simple DM(d).

About what style of play I am trying to implement: As I said, I want Maxime Lopez to be my main playmaker. I want him to touch a lot of balls, a lot of killer passes and some assists. I want him to start from deep 1) because I prefer playmaker starting from deep 2) he has nos physical attributes so I thought it would be easier for him to organise the team without being arrassed being in the middle of too much players. So I chose Regista because I think he has the attributes to be a good one. Then I want to play a possession play because I prefer when my teams controls the game (playing counter is stressing me way too much haha, trust me, I'm french!). However, I don't want an unproductive possession so it's ok if we fail at tempting creative moves, as long as we press high to get the ball back pretty quick. I prefer to win 3-0 than 6-3.

During the build up, I think I want to have 5 players upfront : 1 striker, 1 AMC, 2 inside wingers/forward (playing FM19 I don't have Inside Wingers) and 1 WB. As my main goal threat, Thauvin, is playing IF(A), I picked a right FB a bit more conservative. But I want my left FB to be a very offensive one. That's why I chose a WB. And I want my REG, but more simply, my playmaker to have all of these solutions to attack. I don't know if my make myself clear enough?

Anyway, thank you for your help, I really try to tdo things consciously and to learn for very instructive threads on this forum.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Delial

[Experienced Defender]

1 hour ago, Delial said:

The very narrow style was picked following a video by Rashidi where he explains that it helps runs from the WBs. I like my winger to attack the half spaces so I thought that it would work that way. Let me know if you have any idea to implement that style of play

What "style of play"? Wingers attacking half spaces is not a style of play. 

Anyway, if you are trying to emulate what Rashidi does, I am not going to interfere, because Rashidi is a lot better FM player than me