Brexit in FM21

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, signmeupgaffer said:

 

With a little bit of help from an editor I reversed the decision. Brexit is something that in my opinion should be optional. As someone just getting back into playing FM on a more regular basis after a few years away from playing I really didn't want to be dealing with Brexit rules. 

The pre-game editor is not out yet for fm21 - as far as I can tell.

Care to share how you did this?

[signmeupgaffer]

1 minute ago, bringbacklilnux said:

The pre-game editor is not out yet for fm21 - as far as I can tell.

Care to share how you did this?

Sure, I used a currently available real time editor to make the changes.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, signmeupgaffer said:

Sure, I used a currently available real time editor to make the changes.

You big tease 

[Junkhead]

9 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

Just found how to do it in fm20 - see link below.

It will very disappointing if SI have become so arrogant, self-referencing, self-important, controlling etc that they have removed the ability to turn off Brexit using the pre-game editor.

You do realise that Brexit is not an SI construct, right? And they make a simulation game in which all of the 48 non-uk nations that come out of the box have the appropriate rules reflected?

You can change any nations rules in the advanced editor, including the UK.  Why would that change?

 

 

 

[signmeupgaffer]

31 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

You big tease 

 

Apologies, I don't know if it's frowned upon to share info about real time editors on here. 

 

<snip>I used this method, works for the FM21 real time editor. You are required to buy the license for the editor in order for the changes to be saved.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

You do realise that Brexit is not an SI construct, right? And they make a simulation game in which all of the 48 non-uk nations that come out of the box have the appropriate rules reflected?

You can change any nations rules in the advanced editor, including the UK.  Why would that change?

 

 

 

No idea why it would change.

I was told it was not possible - in the post I quoted.  

And yes I do realise Brexit is not an SI construct.  Why would you think I would? 

Not sure what your second question in the second sentence is. No idea if the other rules for the 48 non-uk nations are appropriate.  I assume they are.  (Unlike the ones for Brexit which however well founded are still speculation.).

[cris182]

11 hours ago, Yer Maw said:

Nobody has shown me otherwise with the pre game editors.

In this very thread you were linked to it 

[Jonthedon26]

9 hours ago, CJG21 said:

I'm enjoying the challenge this year in the PL because of the Brexit rules. From the sounds of it people are just annoyed that they can't sign every South American 18 year old and put zero effort in scouting or squad building. 

It's much harder to sign high potential teenagers with no experience, but I've signed plenty of 21-24 year olds with limited international caps for low money who improve my team. I'm also enjoying signing young English players from the EFL (there's value if you look hard enough), which is something I hadn't done much of in previous years.

People just need to expand their scouting pools and look in different places. And if you don't fancy the challenge, you can always just manage in the Bundesliga where there aren't any rules.

These are my second season signings and there's only 1 player with more than 15 international caps. If you increase your shortlist from just "Top FM Wonderkids" you'll definitely be able to find talent that can get work permits.

 

I never buy wonderkids as I never have enough time for them to get good. I only play about 3 or 4 seasons per year. I tried to sign a 26 year old Spaniard, albeit had 0 international caps but had played regularly in the Spanish top flight all his career but he couldnt get one on appeal. The problem I have is it seems a bit random who gets one after an appeal and who doesn't.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Jonthedon26

[FrazT]

29 minutes ago, signmeupgaffer said:

 

Apologies, I don't know if it's frowned upon to share info about real time editors on here. 

 

<snip>I used this method, works for the FM21 real time editor. You are required to buy the license for the editor in order for the changes to be saved.

As you may have thought, we cant allow access to links to outside sites in these cases

[Junkhead]

18 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

No idea why it would change.

I was told it was not possible - in the post I quoted.  

And yes I do realise Brexit is not an SI construct.  Why would you think I would? 

Not sure what your second question in the second sentence is. No idea if the other rules for the 48 non-uk nations are appropriate.  I assume they are.  (Unlike the ones for Brexit which however well founded are still speculation.).

You answered my second question when you said "no idea why it would change". It won't change.

This was my point - SI have never limited the user before, I didn't understand why you thought they would this time.

And how much of the change is "speculation" is what is open to debate, I think. I think one side of the argument bases that argument on blind hope.

There will be changes. They will be limiting. The severity of those limits is yet to be confirmed, but the limits should absolutely be modelled in the game as best we know them IMO.

[denv]

25 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

There will be changes. They will be limiting. The severity of those limits is yet to be confirmed, but the limits should absolutely be modelled in the game as best we know them IMO.

Completely agree - while it is disappointing and frustrating, FM definitely should try and reflect reality as much as possible. We shall see very shortly whether what they have modelled is accurate!

 

But in terms of gameplay and to imrpove the experience for us, they could provide more info in the game about exactly how the new points system works. Yes they list the criteria, but it is not at all clear how different leagues and number of appearances, club position and reputation, are weighted, and how many points are needed to qualify. Some sort of explainer for this would be very helpful, otherwise the "points based system" is just a black box. Are there for example some clubs with reputations so low that no player would ever qualify?

For example, your scout or DoF, or the message you get when a work permit is rejected to say: "Johnny Foreigner work permit rejected. He also doesn't have the number of points from the other categories required (blah blah) but 22 more appearances for his current club would see him reach that level.

If FM is going to reflect reality, and that reality is a new points based system, then we should be put in the same position as real life recruitment teams, who would be able to put player information into a simple algorithm to see if they would qualify or not!

[nb9]

On 19/11/2020 at 15:21, Iwabik said:

I don't follow british politics, but it's hard for me to think that EFL clubs would accept such limitations (if they can do anything about it).

THIS. This is why the rules are unrealistic. They will not be this like this. You can't even hire a scout from a foreign country, it is ludicrous. We are not turning into North Korea.

It is a fictional forecast that has no realism to it. Why don't they just remove Brexit until it's sorted? Does anybody actually LIKE the implementation of it?

[Jonthedon26]

6 minutes ago, denv said:

Completely agree - while it is disappointing and frustrating, FM definitely should try and reflect reality as much as possible. We shall see very shortly whether what they have modelled is accurate!

 

But in terms of gameplay and to imrpove the experience for us, they could provide more info in the game about exactly how the new points system works. Yes they list the criteria, but it is not at all clear how different leagues and number of appearances, club position and reputation, are weighted, and how many points are needed to qualify. Some sort of explainer for this would be very helpful, otherwise the "points based system" is just a black box. Are there for example some clubs with reputations so low that no player would ever qualify?

For example, your scout or DoF, or the message you get when a work permit is rejected to say: "Johnny Foreigner work permit rejected. He also doesn't have the number of points from the other categories required (blah blah) but 22 more appearances for his current club would see him reach that level.

If FM is going to reflect reality, and that reality is a new points based system, then we should be put in the same position as real life recruitment teams, who would be able to put player information into a simple algorithm to see if they would qualify or not!

I would love that, and that's exactly what I would like to see! I don't mind players not getting a WP, but an explanation of why and what needs to change in order to get one would be nice.

In my example a few posts up I was certain my guy would get one on appeal having played regularly in La Liga all his career for a decent team, but he was rejected and would love to know on what basis.

[Guest]

46 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

There will be changes. They will be limiting. The severity of those limits is yet to be confirmed, but the limits should absolutely be modelled in the game as best we know them IMO.

Fully agree - when the rules are rules and not speculation, of course.

But would like the ability to change the rules using the pre-game editor, as in earlier fm versions.  (One of the great things about fm, in my view, is its flexibility.).

The poster I quoted said this was not possible.  Hence the comment.  You say otherwise.  Here is hoping.

Edited November 21, 2020 by Guest

[ATV]

would it have made more sense for SI to have done nothing with Brexit at the moment? as it's not clear how the rules are going to change in Football

[nb9]

Just now, ATV said:

would it have made more sense for SI to have done nothing with Brexit at the moment? as it's not clear how the rules are going to change in Football

Yes. It would have made complete sense. The fact it's so drastically different from last year tells you that. It is a pointless feature put in for nothing more than PR ahead of 2018's release.

In the current rules SI have imagined up, England is the most difficult country in the world to get a work permit for. Just put that in perspective here. The rules are ridiclous.

[RHKC]

I don't think Brexit should be in the game until we know what's actually going to happen IRL. 

 

Speculation isn't helpful.  Might as well change a couple of VAR rules and create a European Super League in-game, on the off chance it happens in the future.

[Junkhead]

28 minutes ago, nb9 said:

THIS. This is why the rules are unrealistic. They will not be this like this. You can't even hire a scout from a foreign country, it is ludicrous. We are not turning into North Korea.

It is a fictional forecast that has no realism to it. Why don't they just remove Brexit until it's sorted? Does anybody actually LIKE the implementation of it?

If the scout meets the planned points threshold, he will be able to work here. If he doesn't, he won't.

That is how it is, put simply.

What we know is;

1- there will be a points based system.

And that's it. Not exactly a thorough list.

And my understanding is that this is modelled in the game.

And for the record, personally, the worst thing about Brexit in this year's game is that it is set in stone to happen a certain way. I LOVED the variation it gave to my saves. Would personally love more dynamics in the game in the future including countries coming in and out of the EU sometimes, league structures changing, etc.

[gooner-joe-1989]

Just signed Tonali for Arsenal. £30m and 100k p/w.
62 Serie A appearances
7 Italy caps (11 U21 caps)

Described as an Elite Midfielder, and the opening line of his bio calls him "one of football's global superstars".

Obviously, he didn't get a work permit. He probably doesn't meet the threshold based on the "rules", but there's no way he wouldn't get a WP IRL. As it's the beta i'll wait and see if things are relaxed in the full game, or a more fluid common sense approach is taken for WP's, but it has stopped me in my tracks until then.

[Junkhead]

25 minutes ago, bringbacklilnux said:

Fully agree - when the rules are rules and not speculation, of course.

But would like the ability to change the rules using the pre-game editor, as in earlier fm versions.  (One of the great things about fm, in my view, is its flexibility.).

The poster I quoted said this was not possible.  Hence the comment.  You say otherwise.  Here is hoping.

Fair enough.

The poster you quoted is 100% wrong. With the advanced editor, the rules in any league can be amended.

👍

[Junkhead]

5 minutes ago, gooner-joe-1989 said:

He probably doesn't meet the threshold based on the "rules", but there's no way he wouldn't get a WP IRL.

Why would he get a work permit in real life? 

[Euroguy]

Can't wait for full release so I can remove this **** from the game.

 

Ok it makes sense, but it doesn't make sense that it's gonna be in the game for the next 100 years (probably!)

[Junkhead]

16 minutes ago, RHKC said:

I don't think Brexit should be in the game until we know what's actually going to happen IRL. 

 

Speculation isn't helpful.  Might as well change a couple of VAR rules and create a European Super League in-game, on the off chance it happens in the future.

Speculation isn't helpful to what? Who are the developer supposed to be helping?

We don't know who is going to be relegated yet either, but I'm pretty comfortable we should keep that in the game.

People will say that's a stupid example to give but the premise is the same.

Someone will be relegated IRL so someone should be relegated on the game. The most likely teams to be relegated IRL will have the lowest attribute spread and therefore be the most likely relegated on the game.

UK immigration law is going o be based on a points based system IRL. The most likely system is the one that is currently mirrored in the game.

People are only fuming about it because it affect how they play and who they can buy. This is what will actually happen IRL.

[Pantelas]

2 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

People are only fuming about it because it affect how they play and who they can buy. This is what will actually happen IRL.

I'm only fuming about it because it is flawed, well i'm not really fuming yet because it IS only the Beta. But I'm really waiting to see how this flawed system will be sorted, so that I decide whether I will buy this year's game. And i suspect i'm not the only one who doesn't like the idea of exploiting this flawed system either. I don't mind the Brexit, i didn't mind about the different Brexit scenarios implemented in other FM versions, because they were coded properly, albeit there was some random effect involved, which was understandable anyway.

[Platinum]

I think it is pretty  clear that as a minimum we need to understand exactly how the points based system works and what the weightings are. 

Also I was reading an article on Sky Sports recently and they were saying that Premier League clubs are confident that the new point based system won't make any drastic changes to who they can buy. Sounds like FM might be being too strict with their rules.

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, Pantelas said:

I'm only fuming about it because it is flawed, well i'm not really fuming yet because it IS only the Beta. But I'm really waiting to see how this flawed system will be sorted, so that I decide whether I will buy this year's game. And i suspect i'm not the only one who doesn't like the idea of exploiting this flawed system either. I don't mind the Brexit, i didn't mind about the different Brexit scenarios implemented in other FM versions, because they were coded properly, albeit there was some random effect involved, which was understandable anyway.

Yeah, I get that. There are two different discussions happening here I think and I may have gotten them confused, I'm not sure.

The game should model things as per the most likely scenario.

Said model should function correctly. 👍

[RHKC]

11 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Speculation isn't helpful to what? Who are the developer supposed to be helping?

We don't know who is going to be relegated yet either, but I'm pretty comfortable we should keep that in the game.

People will say that's a stupid example to give but the premise is the same.

Someone will be relegated IRL so someone should be relegated on the game. The most likely teams to be relegated IRL will have the lowest attribute spread and therefore be the most likely relegated on the game.

UK immigration law is going o be based on a points based system IRL. The most likely system is the one that is currently mirrored in the game.

People are only fuming about it because it affect how they play and who they can buy. This is what will actually happen IRL.

 

 

Absolutely. But if you think it will affect footballers being signed just the same as the average Spanish family wanting to move to the UK, I think you're mistaken.

[Junkhead]

5 minutes ago, francis#17 said:

I think it is pretty  clear that as a minimum we need to understand exactly how the points based system works and what the weightings are. 

Also I was reading an article on Sky Sports recently and they were saying that Premier League clubs are confident that the new point based system won't make any drastic changes to who they can buy. Sounds like FM might be being too strict with their rules.

The FA and the Premier League have been bickering about it it for months. My understanding is that they have now reached an agreement which they have submitted to the home office for approval.

Every indication is that it will still use the 15 points system but there will be special consideration to those scoring 12-14 who have been rejected.

[Pantelas]

5 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Yeah, I get that. There are two different discussions happening here I think and I may have gotten them confused, I'm not sure.

The game should model things as per the most likely scenario.

Said model should function correctly. 👍

Yep, having been monitoring this discussion since its start, the two different discussions you rightly spotted are: 

People annoyed at SI implementing the hard Brexit (which is likely to be the scenario anyway) and trying to find ways to change that so that it won't "ruin" their experience

Vs

People who (like me) want the point system to be more thoroughly explained, and bugs allowing people to sign any talent on appeal to be fixed before the official release

 

[gooner-joe-1989]

20 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Why would he get a work permit in real life? 

We're talking about Elite athletes here, this isn't a normal profession.

Anecdotally, Football (especially the PL) seems to be beyond the realms of normal industry and footballers will probably fall under the "Global Talent Visa" umbrella. For the record, the example i'm using is an Elite player, playing for a top european nation and based in a top league, not a teenager from a low ranked nation. I have no issue with Brexit per se, or foreign player limits.

The same has happened with Houssem Aouar, despite having similar credentials to Tonali.

I have no doubt the issue will be relaxed in the full game, and those of us who play 4231 gegenpress and sign the same wonderkids will be able to enjoy the game 

[Platinum]

6 minutes ago, Pantelas said:

Yep, having been monitoring this discussion since its start, the two different discussions you rightly spotted are: 

People annoyed at SI implementing the hard Brexit (which is likely to be the scenario anyway) and trying to find ways to change that so that it won't "ruin" their experience

Vs

People who (like me) want the point system to be more thoroughly explained, and bugs allowing people to sign any talent on appeal to be fixed before the official release

 

Exactly, my main gripe is the second point too and has to be fixed imo.

However I am pretty sure the current system is rejecting too many players in the current implementation and that might be due to a bug. For example the Serie A player that was given as an example in this thread will likely be accepted in real life as him being rejected would represent a drastic change in who clubs can sign. Current indications point towards Prem clubs being largely unaffected by the new rules.

To be clear the new Brexit rules are not going to stop clubs signing established players playing in top leagues such as the Serie A. It is going to stop clubs from buying obscure players.

Edited November 21, 2020 by francis#17

[Junkhead]

5 minutes ago, RHKC said:

 

 

Absolutely. But if you think it will affect footballers being signed just the same as the average Spanish family wanting to move to the UK, I think you're mistaken.

A fair few people have said this to me and each time I've asked them why they think this.

This might be true and you might be right, but I honestly think people are going to be surprised. I'm basing this on the fact that there are other big money industries such as manufacturing and branches of the arts which bring in much more to this country than football. No special cases are likely to be made there. We're in the middle of a pandemic and there are concerns over health and social care employees.

As I said before, the premier league was slow on the uptake in respect of free movement of players within EU rules. The FA actually wants to limit players coming in from abroad.

Seriously, if or not Tonali gets a work permit is likely to be low down on the priority list.

As I said though, interested in why you think this.

[Junkhead]

6 minutes ago, gooner-joe-1989 said:

We're talking about Elite athletes here, this isn't a normal profession.

Anecdotally, Football (especially the PL) seems to be beyond the realms of normal industry and footballers will probably fall under the "Global Talent Visa" umbrella. For the record, the example i'm using is an Elite player, playing for a top european nation and based in a top league, not a teenager from a low ranked nation. I have no issue with Brexit per se, or foreign player limits.

The same has happened with Houssem Aouar, despite having similar credentials to Tonali.

I have no doubt the issue will be relaxed in the full game, and those of us who play 4231 gegenpress and sign the same wonderkids will be able to enjoy the game 

Fair enough, and maybe you are right. I actually hope you are.

Don't really get the comment at the end of your post, must be missing something 👍

[Platinum]

1 minute ago, Junkhead said:

A fair few people have said this to me and each time I've asked them why they think this.

This might be true and you might be right, but I honestly think people are going to be surprised. I'm basing this on the fact that there are other big money industries such as manufacturing and branches of the arts which bring in much more to this country than football. No special cases are likely to be made there. We're in the middle of a pandemic and there are concerns over health and social care employees.

As I said before, the premier league was slow on the uptake in respect of free movement of players within EU rules. The FA actually wants to limit players coming in from abroad.

Seriously, if or not Tonali gets a work permit is likely to be low down on the priority list.

As I said though, interested in why you think this.

The FA rightly want the English national team to have a larger talent pool. However they dont want to stop the Premier League from being the leading football league in the world. That is why they will allow established players playing top leagues to join. What is I question is the players playing in more obscure leagues and especially young players in obscure leagues who can block young British youngsters.

[Junkhead]

1 minute ago, francis#17 said:

The FA rightly want the English national team to have a larger talent pool. However they dont want to stop the Premier League from being the leading football league in the world. That is why they will allow established players playing top leagues to join. What is I question is the players playing in more obscure leagues and especially young players in obscure leagues who can block young British youngsters.

It's not up to the Premier League or the FA though.

They can want whatever they like.

[RHKC]

9 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

A fair few people have said this to me and each time I've asked them why they think this.

This might be true and you might be right, but I honestly think people are going to be surprised. I'm basing this on the fact that there are other big money industries such as manufacturing and branches of the arts which bring in much more to this country than football. No special cases are likely to be made there. We're in the middle of a pandemic and there are concerns over health and social care employees.

As I said before, the premier league was slow on the uptake in respect of free movement of players within EU rules. The FA actually wants to limit players coming in from abroad.

Seriously, if or not Tonali gets a work permit is likely to be low down on the priority list.

As I said though, interested in why you think this.

 

The UK government care about money, not people or healthcare. Elite athletes being based in the UK makes the government money, it's that simple.

 

Anyway, back I go to my Yeovil relegation battle.

 

It's just a game after all 

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, RHKC said:

 

The UK government care about money, not people or healthcare. Elite athletes being based in the UK makes the government money, it's that simple.

 

Anyway, back I go to my Yeovil relegation battle.

 

It's just a game after all 

They do, you're right, buy again no allowances made for other industries that make far more money.

Enjoy your game mate, and good luck keeping them up! ☺️

[Nonlondoner]

People are moaning about Brexit being in the game because we don't know what'll happen....

Well there's realism for you, because the clubs, other businesses, current EU nationals in the UK, current UK nationals in the EU, importers, exporters, manufacturers, medical supply lines, still don't know what'll happen in just over a month. It's all a big mystery but that's what you get if you decide to manage a UK team. So perhaps the best way to avoid the game being "ruined" by real-life uncertainty is to spread your wings and manage a team that will definitely remain in the EU.

 

 

[Euroguy]

6 minutes ago, Nonlondoner said:

People are moaning about Brexit being in the game because we don't know what'll happen....

Well there's realism for you, because the clubs, other businesses, current EU nationals in the UK, current UK nationals in the EU, importers, exporters, manufacturers, medical supply lines, still don't know what'll happen in just over a month. It's all a big mystery but that's what you get if you decide to manage a UK team. So perhaps the best way to avoid the game being "ruined" by real-life uncertainty is to spread your wings and manage a team that will definitely remain in the EU.

 

 

Is it also realism to have a manager that's 300 years old?

Or brexit being a thing the next 100 years?

 

Nope

[Junkhead]

4 minutes ago, Euroguy said:

Is it also realism to have a manager that's 300 years old?

Or brexit being a thing the next 100 years?

 

Nope

You're completely right.

Some of us would like those things to be made more realistic too.

[JordanMilly]

5 minutes ago, Euroguy said:

Or brexit being a thing the next 100 years?

Entirely possible, and the only realistic option to include in FM until such time as any future government takes the UK back into the EU.

Complaining about the realism of Brexit happening, when it is 100% happening, and the currently included work permit rules are entirely within the realm of possibility, seems a bit silly.

[nb9]

There shouldn't be any system in the game until we know the rules. That is the point here. They are ruining the game for a lot of players based on pure speculation and guesswork. It is not "realism".

[Viking]

They could at least keep some less harsh scenarios in the game until we know for sure what happens.

[Junkhead]

4 minutes ago, nb9 said:

There shouldn't be any system in the game until we know the rules. That is the point here. They are ruining the game for a lot of players based on pure speculation and guesswork. It is not "realism".

Where exactly do you think this speculation and guesswork is?

As it stands, every employer in the UK are going to have to abide by the points system that the Home Office has announced.  That is fact.

The speculation & guesswork taking place on this thread is everyone saying that football will have some sort of special dispensation and be able to avoid these rules.

The rules in the game which reflect what has actually been announced so far are NOT speculation & guesswork.

[City1904]

2 hours ago, gooner-joe-1989 said:

Just signed Tonali for Arsenal. £30m and 100k p/w.
62 Serie A appearances
7 Italy caps (11 U21 caps)

Described as an Elite Midfielder, and the opening line of his bio calls him "one of football's global superstars".

Obviously, he didn't get a work permit. He probably doesn't meet the threshold based on the "rules", but there's no way he wouldn't get a WP IRL. As it's the beta i'll wait and see if things are relaxed in the full game, or a more fluid common sense approach is taken for WP's, but it has stopped me in my tracks until then.

He has just got a Work Permit on my save to move to Newcastle (They have had a takeover). I saw another poster mention scouts, all staff I have tried to bring to Burnley have got WPs.

I completely agree with the implementation of Brexit, and it would be wrong to not include something. Not including anything would go agaainst what this game tries to be which is a very realistic football manager game. They have based it on the most likely scenario post Brexit, which has been posted in numerous media outlets, with numerous sources confirming this is what is currently on the table. 

However, I think there needs to be some more info on how it works, as currently Tonali gets it on one save and not another which is very weird. Especially given in my current save the example in question, Tonali has less caps and is on less money and had less Serie A appearances. 

I do think the scaremongering by some in this thread stating it makes it impossible to sign players from abroad is factually incorrect, as I have proven in this thread. At worst it makes it inconsistent and unclear. Something that can easily be cleared up by SI confirming how it works in more detail.

[nb9]

11 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Where exactly do you think this speculation and guesswork is?

As it stands, every employer in the UK are going to have to abide by the points system that the Home Office has announced.  That is fact.

The speculation & guesswork taking place on this thread is everyone saying that football will have some sort of special dispensation and be able to avoid these rules.

The rules in the game which reflect what has actually been announced so far are NOT speculation & guesswork.

Even if you went by the book, this is categorically not true. This is a high skill industry with high pay, just like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, the players will get in and the work permit system will not be this harsh. The implemention is wrong.

I do not give a toss about politics or peoples political agendas, but I know the UK system will not be like SI has implemented it, through guesswork and speculation

Edited November 21, 2020 by nb9

[nb9]

11 minutes ago, City1904 said:

I do think the scaremongering by some in this thread stating it makes it impossible to sign players from abroad is factually incorrect, as I have proven in this thread. At worst it makes it inconsistent and unclear. Something that can easily be cleared up by SI confirming how it works in more detail.

Exactly this. You see it on every Brexit discussion in every industry, about everything related to it. It is worst case scenario predicted every single time.

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, nb9 said:

Even if you went by the book, this is categorically not true. This is a high skill industry with high pay, just like EVERY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE ENTIRE WORLD, the players will get in and the work permit system will not be this harsh. The implemention is wrong.

I do not give a toss about politics or peoples political agendas, but I know the UK system will not be like SI has implemented it, through guesswork and speculation

You could well be right.

However until there is an announcement to the contrary, every comment saying that football will be in any way different to what has actually been announced is guesswork & speculation.

[Jonthedon26]

16 minutes ago, City1904 said:

He has just got a Work Permit on my save to move to Newcastle (They have had a takeover). I saw another poster mention scouts, all staff I have tried to bring to Burnley have got WPs.

I completely agree with the implementation of Brexit, and it would be wrong to not include something. Not including anything would go agaainst what this game tries to be which is a very realistic football manager game. They have based it on the most likely scenario post Brexit, which has been posted in numerous media outlets, with numerous sources confirming this is what is currently on the table. 

However, I think there needs to be some more info on how it works, as currently Tonali gets it on one save and not another which is very weird. Especially given in my current save the example in question, Tonali has less caps and is on less money and had less Serie A appearances. 

I do think the scaremongering by some in this thread stating it makes it impossible to sign players from abroad is factually incorrect, as I have proven in this thread. At worst it makes it inconsistent and unclear. Something that can easily be cleared up by SI confirming how it works in more detail.

I  completely agree with what you have said about needing to know more details.

Given the example you have just mentioned, I genuinely think there could be a bug for some and not for others, which the Tonali incident could evidence. For example, I am Birmingham City and I am REALLY struggling to sign anyone from abroad. I posted a couple of pages back that out of nearly 1200 players on my transfer list, only 11 would get a WP on appeal and 300 odd don't need one but they are pretty much all UK nationals.

EDIT: Weirdly those 11 are mostly players from Gibraltar, nobody that is above League Two standard in my opinion. So basically nobody looks like they will qualify using the points system that currently plays in a top league like La Liga or Serie A etc

Edited November 21, 2020 by Jonthedon26

[Platinum]

40 minutes ago, Jonthedon26 said:

I  completely agree with what you have said about needing to know more details.

Given the example you have just mentioned, I genuinely think there could be a bug for some and not for others, which the Tonali incident could evidence. For example, I am Birmingham City and I am REALLY struggling to sign anyone from abroad. I posted a couple of pages back that out of nearly 1200 players on my transfer list, only 11 would get a WP on appeal and 300 odd don't need one but they are pretty much all UK nationals.

EDIT: Weirdly those 11 are mostly players from Gibraltar, nobody that is above League Two standard in my opinion. So basically nobody looks like they will qualify using the points system that currently plays in a top league like La Liga or Serie A etc

People from Gibraltar dont need a WP.

I'm almost certain there is a bug here. There are rejections which arent making sense and that is what has led to this thread imo. If the rules were transparent then this thread wouldnt even be needed and we could post in the bugs forum if it was a bug.