FM21 - A guide to identifying a personal formation and playstyle

[engamohd]

ORIGINALLY POSTED ON MY BLOG

=============================

Football is a beautiful game. Part of its charm is that there are many ways to be successful. Contrary to popular belief, there is no "right way" of playing the game. Klopp's heavy metal approach is successful with his current Liverpool side, Pep's tiki-taka approach with Barca was quite dominant, Mourinho's pragmatic and defense first approach was successful with Inter and Chelsea and Simeone's shithousery was, at a time, very successful. Each of these styles have its own beauty, as well as some pitfalls.

For years, I have tried to identify my style of football, and how it should be played, but without success. After reading a brilliant thread on the forums, the author touched upon similar issues which stemmed from his fear of failure. However, my issues are from a different reason. They are mainly down to my perfectionism.

4-4-2? Overrun in the midfield (thank you assistant).

3-5-2? Weak on the flanks.

4-2-3-1? Easily disjointed.

4-1-4-1? Lone forward easily isolated.

With the release of FM21 and my first Brentford save, I realized that I have been looking to find an ideal and perfect, non existent, formation and style, so much that the natural weakness of any style puts me off that style, and starts an endless loop of trying the "better" style.

Inspired by Bielsa, maintaining his playstyle everywhere, I decided that this has to come to an end.

I decided to follow a scientific approach by analyzing the most important rules I should follow, and try to design my philosophy from that.

Hopefully, this guide could help people that are still unsure of their "own" style and want to identify it.

Formation

Although it goes without saying, formation is not synonymous of playstyle. Mourinho and Klopp both plays (or have played) 4-2-3-1s for long periods of time. Yet both are diametrically different.

By selecting a preferred formation, or two, you decide how you are going to build your team. This includes the individual training plans and recruitment policy. With that being said, I don't like chopping and changing formations a lot, and my initial selection would carry on with me for a long time.

Deciding the formation can get hard. However, I personally have three rules I feel I need to respect at all times, making the process of choosing the formation much easier:

1. Two central strikers/forwards

The reason for having two strikers is that I prefer to have our attacking threat centrally rather than from out wide. This leaves me with a formation that uses 2 strikers or 1 striker and 1 attacking midfielder. There is also the option of three forwads, but I see this will make us weaker else where, thus am not considering 3 striker formations.

2. Even distribution across the field

As described below, I like defensively responsible teams. Part of being defensively responsible is not asking too much of a particular player. Therefore, I am not going to use narrow formations that place a lot of responsibilities upon the wide defenders. Also formations that overloads one part of the pitch is not preferred such as 442 wide diamond or the 4231 narrow. This rule also effectively cancels out the probability of using 3 or 5 defender formations, as almost all of them are narrow.

3. No AMR/AML positions

Same as above. AMR/AML are forwards rather than midfielders, and hence have much less defensive responsibility. Formations like 4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 are a no for me. I am not saying they do no defending, they do, but not as much as positionally disciplined MR/MLs. Wide midfielders are less prone to be caught of position, and will always track back due to their deep defensive positioning.

In my mind, only one formation ticks all three boxes above, the 4-4-1-1. 4411 is a very interesting formation, it combines the threat of the 4231 with the defensive solidity of the 442. It also allows us to have either a free role Trequartista player or a more hardworking player in the hole in order to match three man midfields. In my opinion, 4411 is the most flexible formation in football and one that is very underrated and underused.

Backup Formations

Experience with FM says that you may need to change up things slightly during poor form where your team is not ticking. You may also need to go more defensive or attacking depending on the circumstance. Therefore, it is prudent to have a backup formation that your team is familiar with.

For this formation, I decided that I would sacrifice a bit of attacking threat to offer more defensive security. This would make our second formation the 4-1-4-1.

Playstyle

While selecting a formation was straightforward for me, as I knew exactly what I need, the same cannot be said of the playstyle. I like regular counter attacks, low block, aggressive, dominant, high scoring, defensively strong and direct teams.

Biggest problem is that my preferences are mostly mutually exclusive.

You can't have an aggressive low-block, without sacrificing dominance and defensive solidity (long shots, opponent's technical brilliance and stupid fouls).

You can't be dominant and play on the counter.

You can't be very high-scoring and be defensively solid (think Liverpool 17/18 and Atlanta 19/20).

You need compromises to reach that ideal middle sweet spot.

This prompted me to redefine what I really need from my team.

There are points that you must cede in order to achieve something else. Just like using an AMC instead of a second striker to provide better balance and ball retention, the same must be done to define the playstyle.

Klopp, for instance, sacrificed a bit of defensive stability, for the benefit of having flying wingbacks. The remedy was playing with two hardworking outer midfielders to cover behind them.

1. My team should be aggressive on the ball

Easy pick. I like my teams to attack whenever possible, being direct with their passes, on-the-ball running and off-the-ball running. However, this should be coupled with some responsibility to not lose the ball needlessly. This means using either Attacking/Positive mentality to up the risk on and off the ball, with two essential shouts Work ball in to the box and Play out of defense.

2. Overlapping wingbacks

I have a fetish for overlapping wingbacks. This can be achieved by using suitable roles, coupled with the aggressive mentality. The wide midfielders should look to cut in, opening space for the full backs to overlap. This also has effect on the central midfielders, who should be more defensive and disciplined to cover behind them adequately.

3. Aggressive and Dominant

This was the biggest call for me. For long stretches of time, I was too afraid to press the opposition, and if I decide to press, I would do so in a deep block. This time I decided to let go of my anxieties and press hard and high. I wanted to be aggressive and dominant, looking to prevent the opponents from playing their game. This calls to the inclusion of the Offside trap. This will have impact on the type of defenders required, with quicker, more intelligent ones preferred to slow hulking defenders. Also, it is not prudent to aggressively press 90 minutes in the game. Therefore, I plan to revert to a lower block pressing after we are (comfortably) ahead, especially against teams that park the bus. This should make us save some gas and not overwork the players.

4. Play to a Targetman

Targetmen are my favourite style of attackers, and I would look to base our attacking play around target men. I want him to hold the ball for his teammates to get into position. He will also act a relief valve if we are under pressure, as TM are natural magnets of the ball.

5. Attack the center

Chess players learn that controlling the center gives you better control over the field. Similarly, I need sufficient numbers in the midfield, and our attacks should focus on penetrating the middle spaces. Our wide midfielder will look to overload the center, while wide support shall be offered by the wide defenders.

Another very important aspect of having a defined playstyle, is knowing your Achille's heel. Playing aggressively, and with a high line, would expose us to direct through balls and ball over the top. The remedy is to perfect the offside trap, and carefully micromanaging the team to drop the highline when we are ahead or when we are struggling. The 4141 would be used to soak more pressure, and spring more counter attacks.

In hindsight, I realized that this style is very much similar to Arrigo Sacchi's great Milan side, who use a similar aggressive 4-4-2 to great effect in the 80s.

Implementation

Using the outline above, this is the blueprint of the tactic I have developed. Of course, this may change as I fine tune the tactic more and more. Attacking seem to be overly aggressive, but I am still not sure whether to go on Positive or Attacking.

The roles are quite logical in relation to the required styles. The leftback is expected to overlap more than the right back, therefore the LB is paired with a IW to allow more space for the LB, while the attacking WM should offer more variety with the FB behind him.

Another important aspect is taking into account the team's mentality. Attacking mentality ups the mentality for all players, and therefore, care should be taken while selecting the duties. Attack duties with attacking mentality would make the player much more attacking, and therefore, less defensive responsibility.

The WM is preferred to Winger as I need a more hardworking player, without the restrictions of playing wide that comes with the Winger.

Initial Results

It is a bit early to see results, as long term planning need longer term results to evaluate. However, I have built the style early in the season, and was tinkering with the formation. I am still looking into potential targets, and identifying weaknesses in our system to cover with transfers, but this is for the next post!

 

I hope this guide helps you identify a clear preferred formation and playstyle, and above all, enjoy the game the way you like!

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by engamohd
Improved flow and grammar of post

[JoOSTAR]

Interesting read, but I'm also curious about the setup of your backup formation!

[zyfon5]

My approach is totally opposite to you. I prefer to shape my tactics around my players and not stick to a preferred formation or playstyle. For my FM20 save, I have tried a classic wingplay 442, a heavy possession based 433 which featured an inverted wing back, a very defensive 4141 that managed to grind out results against world class teams relative to my team, a counter attacking 532, a gegenpress 5212, and a Bayern replication 4231. Anyways the main point here that I agree is no matter what formation or playstyle there will be always inherent weakness and strengths. Focus on those and do not try to do too much is the key to a good tactic.

[f.zaarour]

Nice interesting thread. While reading i just wanted to point this out before i move on lol. 

I feel like the FM tactic sheets are a bit complicated for those who like to play FM but dont want to go in alot of depth in tactics. I myself was struggling to much in fm20. Maybe because i had my vision and couldnt implement it into fm or maybe the basics what every aspect in the tactics do are wrong interpretated by me. And thats the hard part. 

But reading this gives me some better understanding. It also looks like in Fm if u choose a defending formation like that 4141 u have to focus more on the attacking in the tactics sheets and vice versa.

Or u speaking about agressive on the ball. I think im having many times to much overkill in keeping the ball or something, so having many support duties, a controlled formation, control mentality, and WbiB, PoD, short passing etc., what u think?

And the hard part is, seeing those problems in game while playing extend. highlights. Im not into playing full games. 

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, JoOSTAR said:

Interesting read, but I'm also curious about the setup of your backup formation!

Thank you! Here you go.

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, zyfon5 said:

My approach is totally opposite to you. I prefer to shape my tactics around my players and not stick to a preferred formation or playstyle. For my FM20 save, I have tried a classic wingplay 442, a heavy possession based 433 which featured an inverted wing back, a very defensive 4141 that managed to grind out results against world class teams relative to my team, a counter attacking 532, a gegenpress 5212, and a Bayern replication 4231. Anyways the main point here that I agree is no matter what formation or playstyle there will be always inherent weakness and strengths. Focus on those and do not try to do too much is the key to a good tactic.

I like to squeeze my players in the tactic, unless the team has someone that the team needs to be built around. The plus side is knowing the system inside out, and you could easily tinker with it. But your approach is quite valid and works, with managers like Mourinho preferring this approach.

[engamohd]

13 minutes ago, f.zaarour said:

Nice interesting thread. While reading i just wanted to point this out before i move on lol. 

I feel like the FM tactic sheets are a bit complicated for those who like to play FM but dont want to go in alot of depth in tactics. I myself was struggling to much in fm20. Maybe because i had my vision and couldnt implement it into fm or maybe the basics what every aspect in the tactics do are wrong interpretated by me. And thats the hard part. 

But reading this gives me some better understanding. It also looks like in Fm if u choose a defending formation like that 4141 u have to focus more on the attacking in the tactics sheets and vice versa.

Or u speaking about agressive on the ball. I think im having many times to much overkill in keeping the ball or something, so having many support duties, a controlled formation, control mentality, and WbiB, PoD, short passing etc., what u think?

And the hard part is, seeing those problems in game while playing extend. highlights. Im not into playing full games. 

Thank you, am glad you find this helpful!

Tactics in FM aren't really that hard if you get the basics right. Personally, I follow the following as a rule while creating a tactic:

1. Remember that the formation is your defensive shape.

2. Too much support duties will make your team more possession oriented.

3. Think how your mentality affect the roles of your tactic. Positive and Attacking make your team play wider, press hard, play more direct, higher tempo and more off the ball runs. Plan accordingly.

4. Think of penetration and movement. Who is creating space? Who is moving into that space? Who is threatening the goal? Who is offering width?

5. Don't use too much TIs.

6. Think of the disadvantages any given TI adds to your team, and look how to counter it. 

Get these right and you will have a good tactic.

 

Good luck

[f.zaarour]

26 minutes ago, engamohd said:

Thank you, am glad you find this helpful!

Tactics in FM aren't really that hard if you get the basics right. Personally, I follow the following as a rule while creating a tactic:

1. Remember that the formation is your defensive shape.

2. Too much support duties will make your team more possession oriented.

3. Think how your mentality affect the roles of your tactic. Positive and Attacking make your team play wider, press hard, play more direct, higher tempo and more off the ball runs. Plan accordingly.

4. Think of penetration and movement. Who is creating space? Who is moving into that space? Who is threatening the goal? Who is offering width?

5. Don't use too much TIs.

6. Think of the disadvantages any given TI adds to your team, and look how to counter it. 

Get these right and you will have a good tactic.

 

Good luck

Ye thats the part i struggle with i guess. A wrong understanding about the basics in the tactics and to much overkill in playstyle. 

Those are some usefull tips, gonna keep them in mind and take it to my next FM games. Thanks alot. 

[roberto201]

How are you finding the offside trap with defenders on cover and stopper? Still works?

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, roberto201 said:

How are you finding the offside trap with defenders on cover and stopper? Still works?

We were exposed several times, so I opted to a CD-D duo, with a slightly lower DL (higher rather than much higher). I am writing about this 4411 in detail, expecting to finish it soon.

Edited November 14, 2020 by engamohd

[aharris4]

What a great read. Im sure this will inspire people to really sit down and suss out how their tactics can work. 
1 fascinating point id like to ask your opinion on is what the game often suggests.

In the thread you mention when you choose a positive/attacking mentality that you counter that with more defensive and supportive duties due to the fact the mentality will automatically make them more positive/attacking anyway. But in the game when you select a positive or attacking mentality it always pops up with tips before a match that with these mentalities you need a certain amount of attacking mentalities above the roles within the team and vice versa with Defensive mentalities.

Its an interesting idea that this can work and would love to hear what you think about what i mentioned above. Does the tip from the game really have any substance?

Downloading tactics is great as you obviously become a winning team. But becoming a winning team by sussing out your own formation and playing style gives you so much more satisfaction.

[engamohd]

9 hours ago, aharris4 said:

What a great read. Im sure this will inspire people to really sit down and suss out how their tactics can work. 
1 fascinating point id like to ask your opinion on is what the game often suggests.

In the thread you mention when you choose a positive/attacking mentality that you counter that with more defensive and supportive duties due to the fact the mentality will automatically make them more positive/attacking anyway. But in the game when you select a positive or attacking mentality it always pops up with tips before a match that with these mentalities you need a certain amount of attacking mentalities above the roles within the team and vice versa with Defensive mentalities.

Its an interesting idea that this can work and would love to hear what you think about what i mentioned above. Does the tip from the game really have any substance?

Downloading tactics is great as you obviously become a winning team. But becoming a winning team by sussing out your own formation and playing style gives you so much more satisfaction.

Thank you for your encouraging words!

The game's advise is logical in the sense that when you play with a higher mentality, you normally want to be quite aggressive and take more risks. Thus the attacking duties complement the high mentality and makes your team very aggressive. The AI follow a similar rule, it is something Cleon have written about a lot earlier. However, I use mentality as a risk taking option. For me, playing on Attacking means that the players should take more risks with their forward runs and passes, all while being positionally and defensively responsible. Thats why I like to keep attacking duties to a minimum in an Positive/Attacking mentality.

[Tsuru]

Hi @engamohd. I think your topic is very good and I am following a similar pattern. But after trying 4-4-1-1 a lot, nowadays I prefer the "good and old" 4-4-2. I like fast, quick football, on a more direct and even counter attacking style, and I think 4-4-2 suits it perfectly, besides being very versatile (something I value a lot). I also love to play LLM and use very small teams, so it´s easier for me to find strikers that fit more playing beside a partner than alone. 

Don´t you feel hard to connect the lone striker and the AM in a 4-4-1-1? This has been always a problem for me. On a 4-2-3-1 for example the wingers help do it, but whenever I play 4-4-1-1 I feel the AM is too far from the striker, and when I use a F9-Shadow Striker combination the other teams defend very deep and I cannot score. It also creates a problem of a "vaccum" in the last third, as the striker never looks to retreat enough.

The best combination I used were DLF on Support and APM/AM on Attack, but this required playing without a traditional striker and scoring was also hard. I would like to hear your impressions about the TM-Attack and AM-Support, as it looks like to be working very well.

[kingjericho]

Great thread. Thinking about what I'd like to implement this year I decided for a 4-4-1-1, as it can employ a creative AMC and still keep the basic rules of my preferred 4-4-2. Looking forward to your updates.

[engamohd]

23 hours ago, Tsuru said:

Hi @engamohd. I think your topic is very good and I am following a similar pattern. But after trying 4-4-1-1 a lot, nowadays I prefer the "good and old" 4-4-2. I like fast, quick football, on a more direct and even counter attacking style, and I think 4-4-2 suits it perfectly, besides being very versatile (something I value a lot). I also love to play LLM and use very small teams, so it´s easier for me to find strikers that fit more playing beside a partner than alone. 

Don´t you feel hard to connect the lone striker and the AM in a 4-4-1-1? This has been always a problem for me. On a 4-2-3-1 for example the wingers help do it, but whenever I play 4-4-1-1 I feel the AM is too far from the striker, and when I use a F9-Shadow Striker combination the other teams defend very deep and I cannot score. It also creates a problem of a "vaccum" in the last third, as the striker never looks to retreat enough.

The best combination I used were DLF on Support and APM/AM on Attack, but this required playing without a traditional striker and scoring was also hard. I would like to hear your impressions about the TM-Attack and AM-Support, as it looks like to be working very well.

I agree with you, 442 is very much suited to direct and counter attacking football. However, if you are looking to control the play, you are much better suited with a 4411, since you cover more pitch space and the AMC offers a bit of midfield and forward play.

Any lone striker formation, is in my opinion, difficult to get it right. There should always be support and options in the final third, this is offered by the WM-A and the IW-S. Since we have proper support, you find the TM and the midfield triangle often exchanging passes until the opportunity occurs. Below is a perfect example (#20 is the AMC, #17 is the TM-A, #19 is IW-S and #15 is the WM-A):

 

[engamohd]

On 20/11/2020 at 13:30, Tsuru said:

Hi @engamohd. I think your topic is very good and I am following a similar pattern. But after trying 4-4-1-1 a lot, nowadays I prefer the "good and old" 4-4-2. I like fast, quick football, on a more direct and even counter attacking style, and I think 4-4-2 suits it perfectly, besides being very versatile (something I value a lot). I also love to play LLM and use very small teams, so it´s easier for me to find strikers that fit more playing beside a partner than alone. 

Don´t you feel hard to connect the lone striker and the AM in a 4-4-1-1? This has been always a problem for me. On a 4-2-3-1 for example the wingers help do it, but whenever I play 4-4-1-1 I feel the AM is too far from the striker, and when I use a F9-Shadow Striker combination the other teams defend very deep and I cannot score. It also creates a problem of a "vaccum" in the last third, as the striker never looks to retreat enough.

The best combination I used were DLF on Support and APM/AM on Attack, but this required playing without a traditional striker and scoring was also hard. I would like to hear your impressions about the TM-Attack and AM-Support, as it looks like to be working very well.

Another excellent example, here the TM holds the ball until the support are in position, and the AMC knits the team beautifully. Ghoddos (our AMC) has 3 assists in this game.

 

[Plugpin]

This was a really good read, thank you. 

I seem to be similar to you where I tried all manner of formations expecting a style to develop but didn't really know how I wanted the team to play. 

I have never used a Target man before because I have only ever heard bad things. How does he work out for you? Does he yield many goals?

Do you recommend any particular physical attributes for a TM? (Tall for example).

[Weed07]

Interesting concept. I usually start off in the bottom league in England with a newly promoted team so to start with i don't have much control over the types of players, often just getting who i can that is better than i have so my formation and style adapts to who i can bring in but usually to start with i will prefer a more defensive, direct counter attacking style where i will try to get physical players as being that low in the leagues its harder to get technical players.

Once i start moving up the leagues i will progress my style of football to a more attacking possession based tactic as thats more the style i like to play and i will start identifying more technical and creative players over physical players to ultimately go from a fast direct counter attacking team to a slow possession team and controlling games.

[engamohd]

15 hours ago, Plugpin said:

This was a really good read, thank you. 

I seem to be similar to you where I tried all manner of formations expecting a style to develop but didn't really know how I wanted the team to play. 

I have never used a Target man before because I have only ever heard bad things. How does he work out for you? Does he yield many goals?

Do you recommend any particular physical attributes for a TM? (Tall for example).

Cheers mate!

I use Targetmen in almost all tactics I design. I mainly look tall, strong, physical players, with good heading and jumping. I also look for high determination, off the ball, finishing, balance, dribbling and agility. Pace and acceleration are bonuses for me. As described, I want the TM to hold the ball for the support, hence I prefer the support (AMC, ML, MR) to be quick and technical and the TM more physical.

Ivan Toney, our TM, scored almost 30 goals all season, with a bunch of assists. I will post some stats when I finish season 1.

[engamohd]

14 hours ago, Weed07 said:

Interesting concept. I usually start off in the bottom league in England with a newly promoted team so to start with i don't have much control over the types of players, often just getting who i can that is better than i have so my formation and style adapts to who i can bring in but usually to start with i will prefer a more defensive, direct counter attacking style where i will try to get physical players as being that low in the leagues its harder to get technical players.

Once i start moving up the leagues i will progress my style of football to a more attacking possession based tactic as thats more the style i like to play and i will start identifying more technical and creative players over physical players to ultimately go from a fast direct counter attacking team to a slow possession team and controlling games.

I think we all do that, but I personally felt that as we work our way up the ladder, we have no style and personality. Looking at managers like Bielsa, he keeps his style regardless of opposition (of course he tweaks to react, but the core is unchanged). I wanted to be the same, imposing our style on the opponent, not the other way around.

[Dronx]

Thanks for this thread. Very interesting. 

[engamohd]

2 hours ago, Dronx said:

Thanks for this thread. Very interesting. 

Cheers mate

[Tsuru]

Em 21/11/2020 em 11:35, engamohd disse:

I agree with you, 442 is very much suited to direct and counter attacking football. However, if you are looking to control the play, you are much better suited with a 4411, since you cover more pitch space and the AMC offers a bit of midfield and forward play.

Any lone striker formation, is in my opinion, difficult to get it right. There should always be support and options in the final third, this is offered by the WM-A and the IW-S. Since we have proper support, you find the TM and the midfield triangle often exchanging passes until the opportunity occurs. Below is a perfect example (#20 is the AMC, #17 is the TM-A, #19 is IW-S and #15 is the WM-A):

Yes, very interesting the two examples you posted here. The AM-SU and the TM-AT look to work very well together.

It´s a possibility for me in the future adapt my 4-4-2 to a 4-4-1-1 if I feel I need to change my style of play. I already use two wide midfielders that play through the middle - the WM AT with PIs, and the WM SU naturally - and a pair of CMs more focused on defend and recovering the ball, so it would be a matter of adjusting the instructions and the attacking pair. 

[engamohd]

On 21/11/2020 at 19:55, Plugpin said:

This was a really good read, thank you. 

I seem to be similar to you where I tried all manner of formations expecting a style to develop but didn't really know how I wanted the team to play. 

I have never used a Target man before because I have only ever heard bad things. How does he work out for you? Does he yield many goals?

Do you recommend any particular physical attributes for a TM? (Tall for example).

At the end of the season, this is the stats of my players. Toney grabbed a massive 29 goals, 25 of them in the league (2nd top scorer, 2 goals behind Adam Armstrong). 12 of Ghoddos assists came in the league, again 2nd best in the league.

[kingjericho]

Aside from the passing directness there aren't many structural differences between this and your 442 from the other thread, do you agree?

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, kingjericho said:

Aside from the passing directness there aren't many structural differences between this and your 442 from the other thread, do you agree?

There are not many differences yes, but in the core, we are more possession oriented now, and don't lose the ball as often. 

The 4411 midfield is more flexible than the 442 which can only play direct.

It is worthy to note that I have dropped the base mentality in the 4411 positive and dropped the DL by one notch, after watching many games.

One more point, we are much better in attack, we effectively attack with 4 players with 2 supporting wide backs. In the 442, we hoof it to the forwards, with only 2 supporting wingers. 

Personally, I'd go for a similar 4411 with more direct passing as a starting point, rather than going full hoof like the 442.

Edited November 25, 2020 by engamohd

[Gegenklaus]

Ah, I like this as I have been advocating using deeper formations such as 4411 and 4141 (my favorite) and pairing it with an agressive style of play. A high pressing 4141 (didn't work so well in FM20, but is a totally different beast in fm21) is absolutely a joy to watch. 

I've been using a 4411 in my first save as I felt it would bring the best out of my best players at Dortmund. But I have slowly been toying with the idea of moving Reus into MC with a attack duty, Brandt up as False 9 and Haaland out wide to the right as a deep raumdeuter sort of player.  

[kingjericho]

1 hour ago, engamohd said:

Personally, I'd go for a similar 4411 with more direct passing as a starting point, rather than going full hoof like the 442.

I get what you're saying, but hoof is life. I can't get tired of it 

[engamohd]

18 minutes ago, Gegenklaus said:

Ah, I like this as I have been advocating using deeper formations such as 4411 and 4141 (my favorite) and pairing it with an agressive style of play. A high pressing 4141 (didn't work so well in FM20, but is a totally different beast in fm21) is absolutely a joy to watch. 

I've been using a 4411 in my first save as I felt it would bring the best out of my best players at Dortmund. But I have slowly been toying with the idea of moving Reus into MC with a attack duty, Brandt up as False 9 and Haaland out wide to the right as a deep raumdeuter sort of player.  

We are a rare breed my friend, I absolutely despise top heavy formations 😀

BVB's team is absolutely exceptional, would love to see how your deep raumdeuter works for you.

My WM-A usually scores many goals in true raumdeuter style, Haaland should ace this role.

[engamohd]

5 minutes ago, kingjericho said:

I get what you're saying, but hoof is life. I can't get tired of it 

It is an absolute joy when it works I agree ❤️

[moolochicken]

On 13/11/2020 at 21:52, engamohd said:

The reason for having two strikers is that I prefer to have our attacking threat centrally rather than from out wide.

I do feel that central strikers are getting more chances in this ME. Are the wide strikers weaker than FM20 though?

On 13/11/2020 at 21:52, engamohd said:

AMR/AML are forwards rather than midfielders, and hence have much less defensive responsibility

I played a season with AP(A) on AMR and AML under Attacking mentality and they defend so deep that they are juat infront of the Full Backs. I suppise only RM, WTM and IF(A) will stay up front to receive long balls?

[engamohd]

1 hour ago, moolochicken said:

I do feel that central strikers are getting more chances in this ME. Are the wide strikers weaker than FM20 though?

It is a matter of preference really, not a case of one being weaker than the other. I haven't tried wide forwards in FM21 yet.

 

1 hour ago, moolochicken said:

I played a season with AP(A) on AMR and AML under Attacking mentality and they defend so deep that they are juat infront of the Full Backs. I suppise only RM, WTM and IF(A) will stay up front to receive long balls?

It is not either defend of not, but the natural deep positioning of the MR/ML makes them track back to their position, making them regroup easier and faster. Wide forwards would track the fullbacks, but more often than not stay higher up.

[Tsuru]

After developing my counter system on a 4-4-2 I am migrating to a 4-4-1-1 by the end of the season, thanks to your ideas.

I agree with you that 4-4-1-1 brings us more variety, and sometimes during a game we will also be able to control the ball more, specially if the opponents play deep and deny the space for the counters or open more space in midfield. And if they try to attack us, there will be enough space for us to hit them fast and hard. Playing in the 4-4-2 we were just lumping the ball foward, which works but gives us less options.

I also think it will be easy to migrate as the roles and duties are adequate and work well for both systems. I will let you know if it worked well.

[Bot Makel]

Very interesting topic. I see myself a little in your path. By not coaching reputable teams that fight for prestigious positions, I tend to avoid heavy formations offensively. I have also always had a nuisance seeing players in AM positions not defending or not positioning themselves correctly during defensive transitions (even with marking). At the same time I still managed to get lucky with heavy formations when the conditions were right for it.

Using formations like yours I could see some problems especially against deep formations.

- Many long balls that bypass the defense (even in defense) not having many players who press high on the field

- Counter-attacks due to players who piled up close to the opposition area.

Obviously, every formation has its weaknesses that need to be calculated. I find it interesting that you use the high mentality to increase the height of the players position and to be more aggressive. As my reputation grows, that's something I tend to do too.

I wanted to ask you if you have noticed my own problems and compliment you because being able to find that satisfaction while watching your team based on personal style is one of the great things about FM.

[engamohd]

On 30/11/2020 at 16:51, Bot Makel said:

I wanted to ask you if you have noticed my own problems and compliment you because being able to find that satisfaction while watching your team based on personal style is one of the great things about FM.

Thank you for your compliment and encourage! Cheers.

You are spot on. Our issues are mainly against 2 strikers being fed with direct through balls. Formations like 442 and 5212 cause me a lot of trouble. I either drop the D-Line or go even more aggressive. I recently had an issue against a team playing direct to two strikers. After conceding two early, I went on attacking, and managed to score four, while choking their supply.

Finally, I agree with you, having to develop your own personal style is the crux of my enjoyment on FM <3

Sorry for my late reply, I have been incredibly busy lately.