Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?

[Mars_Blackmon]

7 minutes ago, SCCP1910 said:

Imagine managing Rochdale in this ultra-realistic world 


An infinite slog through League Two and mid-table L1

In that setting, i would stick with one save without getting bored. 

 

Nowadays you'll be happy to get through 3 seasons without starting over looking for a new  ”challenge” 

 

I wonder how many people actually play a long term save? 

[Keyzer Soze]

8 minutes ago, FMunderachiever said:

If the game was true to real life if you managed walsall or barrow youd probably be down in the bottom 2 divisions forever. Thats what REAL football managers with coaching licenses can achieve. You are just button clickers.

 

So if the game was like real life it would probably be extremely boring for many people or take a level of effort most people arent willing to put in.

100% this. 

No one wants to be forever in lower leagues, like no one wants to never win the champions league while managing a mid table team. 

But on the other hand, people tend to want this irealistics things to happen but after a couple of seasons, just enough so that they can feel that the success is related with the manner they manage the teams. 

So, it's hard for SI to get this balanced right... Players want to over achieve , but not too quick. 

[IrrelevantLion]

Anyone want to play Wycombe and get to CL within 3 seasons? I mean, from these comments, you'd think it would be that easy 

[Freakiie]

32 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

You replied with all of that just to pretty much agree with me in your first sentence.

 

You're trying to argue a point i never made.

 

1. Board should be much more aware of future finances and should probably block if the money doesn't add up.

 

2. Players should ask for way more money for installments. You get the bargain now but you're  paying way over value in the long run.

 

As I said in my original post, it's been too forgiven.

I believe you misunderstood my points. Installments by themselves are perfectly fine.

It's the knowledge surrounding them that a player has that can turn them into nonsense when you abuse them to their limits.

Clubs are already rating installments as lower than straight up payments, but at the same time it'd make no sense for them to double their demands. As for future finances, the board might pay attention to those if you actually under performed or these players turned out to be complete flops, but that won't happen.

So that leaves again the question: How are you going to fix installments, when the human manager knows that the players he buys with them are wonder kids, that will develop and that will bring him points and money? If i were to use installments to grab some of the better wonderkids that aren't at big clubs yet (so avoiding players like Haaland), I can snatch up tons of players of which I know that they will develop (as i know they will have a solid PA set), I know that FM players won't have issues with adaptability, personality or whatever issues crop up, so unless the players literally repeatedly break their legs or shred their knees they will develop and become players I can easily offload for much more than their initial price.

These underlying issues are what breaks installments. Not installments themselves. So, if you want to "fix installments" what you need to touch is not the installments mechanic, but the entire mechanics around scouting, player development and how teams with nothing but youngsters can perform incredibly consistent (and I would love to see changes to all of these). Unrealistically nerfing installments would be nothing more than applying a bandaid to something that's not even an issue for a lot of people, while completely ignoring the actual underlying cause.

 

[SCCP1910]

1 minute ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Anyone want to play Wycombe and get to CL within 3 seasons? I mean, from these comments, you'd think it would be that easy 

You'd be able to do this with game-breaking tactics. If someone does this with a normal tactic, then yeah, fair, it's too easy. I don't really know if it is or not because I like to take my time with saves, and I'm barely half a season in with Benevento, sitting in 15th in Serie A with a normal counter-attack tactic

[IrrelevantLion]

Just now, SCCP1910 said:

You'd be able to do this with game-breaking tactics.

I'd like to see! 

[RioImmagina]

Btw i think everyone here wants to Play attacking football. It's more entertaining. 

[SCCP1910]

Just now, IrrelevantLion said:

I'd like to see! 

If you can't do this with a game-breaking tactic, then the tactic isn't really doing its job. I certainly won't try because it's boring as ****

[SCCP1910]

Just now, RioImmagina said:

Btw i think everyone here wants to Play attacking football. It's more entertaining. 

laughs in Pulisball

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 minutes ago, Freakiie said:

I believe you misunderstood my points. Installments by themselves are perfectly fine.

It's the knowledge surrounding them that a player has that can turn them into nonsense when you abuse them to their limits.

Clubs are already rating installments as lower than straight up payments, but at the same time it'd make no sense for them to double their demands. As for future finances, the board might pay attention to those if you actually under performed or these players turned out to be complete flops, but that won't happen.

So that leaves again the question: How are you going to fix installments, when the human manager knows that the players he buys with them are wonder kids, that will develop and that will bring him points and money? If i were to use installments to grab some of the better wonderkids that aren't at big clubs yet (so avoiding players like Haaland), I can snatch up tons of players of which I know that they will develop (as i know they will have a solid PA set), I know that FM players won't have issues with adaptability, personality or whatever issues crop up, so unless the players literally repeatedly break their legs or shred their knees they will develop and become players I can easily offload for much more than their initial price.

These underlying issues are what breaks installments. Not installments themselves. So, if you want to "fix installments" what you need to touch is not the installments mechanic, but the entire mechanics around scouting, player development and how teams with nothing but youngsters can perform incredibly consistent (and I would love to see changes to all of these). Unrealistically nerfing installments would be nothing more than applying a bandaid to something that's not even an issue for a lot of people, while completely ignoring the actual underlying cause.

 

 

Still doesn't negate the fact that it's too forgiven. Yeah AI would rather have a full upfront payment but that doesn't take away how easy it is to get them to accept the installment over them.

Didn't say anything about doubling payments, but the payments should be more than upfront. That's basic negotiations.

 

Players overachieve easily so underperforming in order for the board to kick in really doesn't matter in this example.

 

Everything have a knock on effect on the game’s current difficulty.

[thejay]

I think fm 21  is easy because the AI just can't attack properly .

[Mars_Blackmon]

Just now, thejay said:

I think fm 21  is easy because the AI just can't attack properly .

Yeah and this point have been lost since i mentioned it in the first pages.

 

Luckily it's been raised in the bug forums.

[Mars_Blackmon]

32 minutes ago, SCCP1910 said:

You'd be able to do this with game-breaking tactics. If someone does this with a normal tactic, then yeah, fair, it's too easy. I don't really know if it is or not because I like to take my time with saves, and I'm barely half a season in with Benevento, sitting in 15th in Serie A with a normal counter-attack tactic

Would default gegen press or any default attacking offensive used with a lower team be considered a game breaking tactic? If that answer is yes then it's a problem with the game.

[badgith]

Its defenitely a weekness on AI attacking, and I guess isn't duo to our tactic, but I guess the problem is how they play depending on your results/reputation.

I would give a shoot that the problem is on the counter-attack tatics that AI progress to use when you are a more reputed team, or you are winning matches ( because this seems a factor to when IA decide how it will be playing against our team) . I was never talking about exploits , gengenpress feels right this year, even on my porto save I dont have any striker outrageous numbers, what I got was IA teams that can't create even 1 clear cut chance per game. On the UCL I got Chelsea on groups and managed to win 1 and draw the other, but I noticed Chelsea was able to do alot more to my team than the teams on LIga Nos ( and this take me to reputation problems, pared with a great form (leading us to 20 games winning in a row) , I have games where I creat 20 chances and they got nothing, AND NOTHING is 0 shots (that signs a problem) .

On curzhon asthon I did the tactic of the print , and I still got some easy wins because even with AI creating alot more chances than on Porto save, their chances aren't good to give them a better xG that my team have on that match, and thats something I can't find a response, but hope SI guys that are professionals will adress that easily. But for sure this game is alot easier than fm20, atleast on the part of the adaptation to the tatic, while on past years save I would struglle to find the balance on my tatic, this year I just build a tatic with some plays on mind, and a way of defending and team replicate it really well, for exemple my BBW rarely gets cought out of position and while my WB / FB go up , normally he really good to track their runs, on the other side when my WB go up, normally he goes alone getting alot of time on the ball, and getting a perfect chance to a easy cross where my AP would be on the penalty spot, and my PF would be 1st post and the IW second post, this would take years to archieve on fm20, with players filling same position or even get really out of position, that rarely happen this year.

I noticed that are a lot of us that thing game is fine this year, but it's clear that it isn't, at least if you have a good perception of what is football, observing a full match, where my BBM throw 2 passes that isolate my striker feels great but doesn't sound right at least if he does that everygame.

I can be ponting things that are really unbalanced, but for me I would be already fine if IA could do the same aggainst us, but some stat on the code is making IA not getting that. I post the images from my save, to prove I don't play any marvellous tatic, the only individual instruction is Advance More Forward on the AP ( dont even know if it doesn't come already with the role) , and I'm getting a 3rd spot in a season that my best players get some long injuries, I should be struggling for real, at least on other fm i know for sure that I wouldn't be 3, at least in fm20 I played with the same team a couple saves, and I was Overarchiving that easy. (never got promoted first season, normally got playoffs with a lot better results on the second half of the season, duo to getting the team more used to the tatic.)  That saying I think something is wrong with the game, we all know game in some years come a litlle bit easier in the Beta, lets hope when 24 arrive, we can still overarchieve but with some effort, and not every season.

[johnsie]

5 hours ago, enigmatic said:

SI, based on extensive data to suggest an enormous number of players are casual and want to be able to turn on a gegenpressing default and play like Klopp whilst hardcore players fill threads with their aim to get from the bottom to the top in a way which essentially never happens IRL? Not to mention all those paranoid threads about the AI cheating or 'cracking' tactics when they see a very slight reversal of fortune from sides adjusting their tactics to treat the small club as a slightly bigger one (which was a massive deal for Leicester which cost Ranieri his job)

 

Realism works against difficulty too. Realism means other teams don't scout and sign cheap South American wonderkids and that nobody else will play with a flat three on attacking when expected to be in the bottom of the table, even though both of these lead to better results. And yet the human player moans that it's artificial handicaps when people suggest they don't do that...

So is FM meant to be a casual game then? I don't get it. Like a managerial FIFA? Let's dangle a bunch of complex looking things to give an impression of sophistication but have the game be a breeze. And for whatever reason there is no compromise or accommodation to be made for players who want a more realistic challenging experience?

If this is the developers' end goal they should just say so. The "data" is on their side apparently so no shame there.

[Dagenham_Dave]

The thing I don't understand is if the game is so incredibly easy, why is there a tactics forum on here at all? And further still, why would it be one of the busiest parts of the forum? But it is.  

And why are there so many downloaded 'cheat tactics'? Surely if the game was as easy as everyone says, there wouldn't be any need for any of that?

[Broken_Record]

4 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The thing I don't understand is if the game is so incredibly easy, why is there a tactics forum on here at all? And further still, why would it be one of the busiest parts of the forum? But it is.  

And why are there so many downloaded 'cheat tactics'? Surely if the game was as easy as everyone says, there wouldn't be any need for any of that?

That's quite simple question. Had not visited the tactics forum during the time after FM 2021 was released and after a quick check, it seems that most of the people who are asking for help, are asking help on creating a certain type of a tactic: for example a counter attacking one or one with a low block. 

And I would say that more often than not these "Help, I'm struggling" threads are the ones where people are already at least achieving the expectations or even exceeding them but they want even more. The same applies to downloadable tactics: people wanting plug and play tactics that see them winning everything with no effort. 

I haven't seen a large audience of people posting any examples about real underachieving in this game (or the previous versions) and that for me tells more than people being active in the tactics forum. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, Broken_Record said:

The same applies to downloadable tactics: people wanting plug and play tactics that see them winning everything with no effort. 

 

But the arguments on here are suggesting that winning everything with no effort doesn't require a plug and play tactic? So why are they there? 

[FMunderachiever]

1 minute ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But the arguments on here are suggesting that winning everything with no effort doesn't require a plug and play tactic? So why are they there? 

I think the tactics forums are more about people trying to recreate certain styles of play or build tactics around certain roles etc.

Doing that is harder than working out what the match engine cant cope with, pressing the right buttons in order and hey presto, unrealistic results.

Maybe people dont judge success on just winning everything with crap teams? there are other ways to enjoy the game.

[badgith]

15 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

The thing I don't understand is if the game is so incredibly easy, why is there a tactics forum on here at all? And further still, why would it be one of the busiest parts of the forum? But it is.  

And why are there so many downloaded 'cheat tactics'? Surely if the game was as easy as everyone says, there wouldn't be any need for any of that?

I play football manager since 2008 and what I can say is that, when I started with 12 years in FM I don't know how to set up a tactic, and it taked some time to learn how to do it and make sence, sometimes we more experienced players have a sence of being bad, but this isn't totally true since we already know some concepts from the years we played, but there are people playing for 2, 3 years ( maybe even less), who struggle and manage to overdue in tactics , or even use a combination of roles that make tatics really unbalanced, so I guess is totally normal that people use tactics forum, as to improve as to try some magic formula, but hold in mind that this a normal process when you start playing the game, even me that should know a lot I can do some bad decisions sometimes. So I guess is not hard for you to understand that a simulation game should require some learning, and the using of the forum is for that.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, FMunderachiever said:

Maybe people dont judge success on just winning everything with crap teams? there are other ways to enjoy the game.

That's the problem, the 'too easy' brigade don't want to entertain 'other ways to enjoy the game', they want the game made exactly to their own specifications, despite there being 101 things you can do to make the game more challenging. It has to veer on the easy side for it to remain accessible to the majority, and difficulty levels simply won't work. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

2 minutes ago, badgith said:

I play football manager since 2008 and what I can say is that, when I started with 12 years in FM I don't know how to set up a tactic, and it taked some time to learn how to do it and make sence, sometimes we more experienced players have a sence of being bad, but this isn't totally true since we already know some concepts from the years we played, but there are people playing for 2, 3 years ( maybe even less), who struggle and manage to overdue in tactics , or even use a combination of roles that make tatics really unbalanced, so I guess is totally normal that people use tactics forum, as to improve as to try some magic formula, but hold in mind that this a normal process when you start playing the game, even me that should know a lot I can do some bad decisions sometimes. So I guess is not hard for you to understand that a simulation game should require some learning, and the using of the forum is for that.

Point. Missed. Spectacularly. 

[Viking]

Obviously there's a part of the FM users finds the game incredible easy and a part that finds it incredible hard, and there's no easy way SI can satisfy both sides. Implementing difficulty levels would just be a step away from a realistic game and probably a nightmare for the devs and the QA. 

[badgith]

Just now, Dagenham_Dave said:

Point. Missed. Spectacularly. 

As you, I see you speaking a lot in this forum, but you can't adress some problems we asked clearly ...

Tell me is it normal that most of the matches the other team can't even shot? Sorry, but this screams a problem, if you can't see it, I hope you enjoy your 50€ on this game where you only can do 1 thing when you play with a brain which is winning.

 

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 minute ago, badgith said:

As you, I see you speaking a lot in this forum, but you can't adress some problems we asked clearly ...

Tell me is it normal that most of the matches the other team can't even shot? Sorry, but this screams a problem, if you can't see it, I hope you enjoy your 50€ on this game where you only can do 1 thing when you play with a brain which is winning.

 

Wow, you've really picked this up wrong, haven't you? 

[herne79]

5 minutes ago, Broken_Record said:

And I would say that more often than not these "Help, I'm struggling" threads are the ones where people are already at least achieving the expectations or even exceeding them but they want even more.

I'm afraid not.  There are certainly a number of people who do post like that but the vast majority of people asking for help in that forum either need help to define / refine a certain style of play or are simply inexperienced and need help pulling together something (anything).

@Dagenham_Dave is on the right lines here.  However, the Tactics forum is not where people who find the game easy hang out.  I think the people who find the game easy want levels of difficulty so that the game caters to everyone - easy mode for inexperienced people, hard mode for people who want more of a challenge.

Of course the game can actually be made harder or easier right now, and I'm not talking about starting with a smaller team or not using a certain style of play.  So if you want to play attacking football with Liverpool, possession with intent at Bayern or tiki taka at Barcelona for example, there are easier and harder ways of doing that already.

That's not to say things can't be improved in the game - they absolutely can - but there is a helluva lot we can already do ourselves.

[badgith]

7 minutes ago, Viking said:

Obviously there's a part of the FM users finds the game incredible easy and a part that finds it incredible hard, and there's no easy way SI can satisfy both sides. Implementing difficulty levels would just be a step away from a realistic game and probably a nightmare for the devs and the QA. 

Football is hard in real life ... Lets go futher, I start playing Gran Turismo, and because I'm a terrible driver I can't win, would it be ok to the developer to tune how cars handle, because most of the base can't get good results? What we are searching here is simulation, of course it will not be perfect, but atleast make it not fifa. Easy game will lead the game to a pretty bad state when its not early days, but we will see...

Edited November 19, 2020 by badgith

[Wavelberry]

Going to fire up some Gengen experiments with Wycombe later as mentioned.

Will try a normal formation and a 3 striker formation and leave things as default as possible and see what I get. I'll play the matches. Let's see what happens.

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But the arguments on here are suggesting that winning everything with no effort doesn't require a plug and play tactic? So why are they there? 

Finishing mid table with little effort but predicted to battle relegation is still overachieving. 

[vukigepard]

7 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's the problem, the 'too easy' brigade don't want to entertain 'other ways to enjoy the game', they want the game made exactly to their own specifications, despite there being 101 things you can do to make the game more challenging. It has to veer on the easy side for it to remain accessible to the majority, and difficulty levels simply won't work. 

Exactly, well said. I am quite experienced with fm, i've been playing it since 2011. I know, as it is a game, which i played for a long time, that you can set up a killer tactic if you try hard enough or just search the forums whatever fm it is, and i like that part, as it allows me to have fun with things like progression, team building, seeing how the fm world develops in the future, how the leagues get stronger or weaker, how i can influence that, to develop and find great players, play with some restrictions. The tactics part is the static part of every fm, and it hasn't changed much over the years. I don't want to hamper my chance of enjoying the game by having to constantly change something and get frustrated when i want to progress in a way i want and get 5 seasons instead of 50 like i usually do. I don't want to take out anyone's enjoyment out of game either, and the current fm certainly doesn't limit you from doing micromanaging, or playing the way you deem realistic.  The game has all these features for a reason, and there is no right way to play it. Very offensive specific tactical approach too good for you? Don't use it. Very specific offensive tactical approach-good for me, and where is the middle ground? Middle ground is not me not having that option while you get your dose of imaginary realism which you can have anyway.

[Mars_Blackmon]

3 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

Exactly, well said. I am quite experienced with fm, i've been playing it since 2011. I know, as it is a game, which i played for a long time, that you can set up a killer tactic if you try hard enough or just search the forums whatever fm it is, and i like that part, as it allows me to have fun with things like progression, team building, seeing how the fm world develops in the future, how the leagues get stronger or weaker, how i can influence that, to develop and find great players, play with some restrictions. The tactics part is the static part of every fm, and it hasn't changed much over the years. I don't want to hamper my chance of enjoying the game by having to constantly change something and get frustrated when i want to progress in a way i want and get 5 seasons instead of 50 like i usually do. I don't want to take out anyone's enjoyment out of game either, and the current fm certainly doesn't limit you from doing micromanaging, or playing the way you deem realistic.  The game has all these features for a reason, and there is no right way to play it. Very offensive specific tactical approach too good for you? Don't use it. Very specific offensive tactical approach-good for me, and where is the middle ground? Middle ground is not me not having that option while you get your dose of imaginary realism which you can have anyway.

Or they could  just fine tune things. It's not really rocket science.

 

Are you ok with half of your league sitting back defending for 80 minutes?

[Broken_Record]

40 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

But the arguments on here are suggesting that winning everything with no effort doesn't require a plug and play tactic? So why are they there? 

Probably because they don't want to put on that little effort that it demands to be successful with balanced systems or if they are so clueless that they don't know how to create one. 

Anyway, it is a fact that being too successful in the game without using any exploits or downloading tactics is not a challenging task. 

[vukigepard]

1 minute ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Or they could  just fine tune things. It's not really rocket science.

 

Are you ok with half of your league sitting back defending for 80 minutes?

That's not the experience i am having in this fm, they do hit me on the counter and i am playing a top team. My results are exactly in line with real life. Fine tuning by nerfing the attack or buffing defence means thing like Messi not getting realistic numbers in this fm, like he didn't in previous versions. And when he doesn't, it just screams rng and that quality doesn't matter. Now it does. You having a set up that makes you Klopp on steroids is not something regular AI does, it's all you. You can fine tune the problem yourself if it bothers you.

[badgith]

3 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

That's not the experience i am having in this fm, they do hit me on the counter and i am playing a top team. My results are exactly in line with real life. Fine tuning by nerfing the attack or buffing defence means thing like Messi not getting realistic numbers in this fm, like he didn't in previous versions. And when he doesn't, it just screams rng and that quality doesn't matter. Now it does. You having a set up that makes you Klopp on steroids is not something regular AI does, it's all you. You can fine tune the problem yourself if it bothers you.

I showed some examples where gengenpress was not used, problem is on how AI teams attack, complicated to understand...give 2 cents and post you tactic and some game stats , I can do it, but I already explain, Ai doesnt even get 1 shot in some matchs....

[Mars_Blackmon]

6 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

That's not the experience i am having in this fm, they do hit me on the counter and i am playing a top team. My results are exactly in line with real life. Fine tuning by nerfing the attack or buffing defence means thing like Messi not getting realistic numbers in this fm, like he didn't in previous versions. And when he doesn't, it just screams rng and that quality doesn't matter. Now it does. You having a set up that makes you Klopp on steroids is not something regular AI does, it's all you. You can fine tune the problem yourself if it bothers you.

Who asked for that?

 

FYI, I'm not even using any OP tactic in my save. I'm using default control possession, wing play and park the bus. The 3 tactics that was suggested to me by my Assman.

[rp1966]

41 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's the problem, the 'too easy' brigade don't want to entertain 'other ways to enjoy the game', they want the game made exactly to their own specifications, despite there being 101 things you can do to make the game more challenging. It has to veer on the easy side for it to remain accessible to the majority, and difficulty levels simply won't work. 

I think the biggest problem with the 'too easy' brigade is that they bring with them a mindset from games that have a finish line. FM has always been more open ended than that. yes, everyone starts by wanting to win everything with their favourite team, then do the same with a minnow to CL story, but what then?

For me, every year I have a different plan (for FM20 it was ignore that piece of crap completely and play FM17 instead), but outside of FM I play quite a lot of other open-ended or sandbox games - setting my own goals is the norm.  This year in FM might be very different as with the ME looking so good, I might get the full-fat game so that I can have some editor based fun.

 

 

[badgith]

After work I will be doing a analise on chances created by my team and AI chances, really interested to see it on stats so I can add to the discussion.

[vukigepard]

1 minute ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Who asked for that?

Sorry if i didn't understand you correctly. I'm hearing a lot of nerf the attack ideas for the past few days. Fine tuning the aggression of the ai is something i do not have a problem with, and is also something that can be done via editor.

[Mars_Blackmon]

2 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

Sorry if i didn't understand you correctly. I'm hearing a lot of nerf the attack ideas for the past few days. Fine tuning the aggression of the ai is something i do not have a problem with, and is also something that can be done via editor.

Literally no one in this thread asked for that. And if it was mention, it certainly wasn't from the majority.

 

also people shouldn't have to rely on the editor to make fundamental changes to the game. In an unbalanced way i might add.

[IrrelevantLion]

2 hours ago, IrrelevantLion said:

Anyone want to play Wycombe and get to CL within 3 seasons? I mean, from these comments, you'd think it would be that easy 

anyone?

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, badgith said:

Its defenitely a weekness on AI attacking, and I guess isn't duo to our tactic, but I guess the problem is how they play depending on your results/reputation.

I would give a shoot that the problem is on the counter-attack tatics that AI progress to use when you are a more reputed team, or you are winning matches ( because this seems a factor to when IA decide how it will be playing against our team) . I was never talking about exploits , gengenpress feels right this year, even on my porto save I dont have any striker outrageous numbers, what I got was IA teams that can't create even 1 clear cut chance per game. On the UCL I got Chelsea on groups and managed to win 1 and draw the other, but I noticed Chelsea was able to do alot more to my team than the teams on LIga Nos ( and this take me to reputation problems, pared with a great form (leading us to 20 games winning in a row) , I have games where I creat 20 chances and they got nothing, AND NOTHING is 0 shots (that signs a problem) .

On curzhon asthon I did the tactic of the print , and I still got some easy wins because even with AI creating alot more chances than on Porto save, their chances aren't good to give them a better xG that my team have on that match, and thats something I can't find a response, but hope SI guys that are professionals will adress that easily. But for sure this game is alot easier than fm20, atleast on the part of the adaptation to the tatic, while on past years save I would struglle to find the balance on my tatic, this year I just build a tatic with some plays on mind, and a way of defending and team replicate it really well, for exemple my BBW rarely gets cought out of position and while my WB / FB go up , normally he really good to track their runs, on the other side when my WB go up, normally he goes alone getting alot of time on the ball, and getting a perfect chance to a easy cross where my AP would be on the penalty spot, and my PF would be 1st post and the IW second post, this would take years to archieve on fm20, with players filling same position or even get really out of position, that rarely happen this year.

I noticed that are a lot of us that thing game is fine this year, but it's clear that it isn't, at least if you have a good perception of what is football, observing a full match, where my BBM throw 2 passes that isolate my striker feels great but doesn't sound right at least if he does that everygame.

I can be ponting things that are really unbalanced, but for me I would be already fine if IA could do the same aggainst us, but some stat on the code is making IA not getting that. I post the images from my save, to prove I don't play any marvellous tatic, the only individual instruction is Advance More Forward on the AP ( dont even know if it doesn't come already with the role) , and I'm getting a 3rd spot in a season that my best players get some long injuries, I should be struggling for real, at least on other fm i know for sure that I wouldn't be 3, at least in fm20 I played with the same team a couple saves, and I was Overarchiving that easy. (never got promoted first season, normally got playoffs with a lot better results on the second half of the season, duo to getting the team more used to the tatic.)  That saying I think something is wrong with the game, we all know game in some years come a litlle bit easier in the Beta, lets hope when 24 arrive, we can still overarchieve but with some effort, and not every season.

Excellent detail there. Hope you've uploaded a save now so that the developer can investigate what is going on. 

👍

[Broken_Record]

16 minutes ago, rp1966 said:

yes, everyone starts by wanting to win everything with their favourite team, then do the same with a minnow to CL story, but what then?

Not exactly. At least I couldn't care a damn if I win in a computer game or not. The only thing I would be interested to have is a managerial career instead of the certain managerial success story that I'm now getting from the game. 

If I would, for example, pick Bolton as my team, my aim would not to get back to the Premier league and eventually winning everything but instead have a good and challenging time managing them. Doesn't matter if that career would be ten seasons in the League 2. Actually would way rather have that than taking the team to the Premier league and trophies. 

Edited November 19, 2020 by Broken_Record

[Junkhead]

13 minutes ago, badgith said:

After work I will be doing a analise on chances created by my team and AI chances, really interested to see it on stats so I can add to the discussion.

Or you could upload a save and let the developer do the analysis and then improve the game.

Your analysis will just be you banging on about your Porto and Curzon Ashton saves with no end in sight.

I know more about those saves than I know about my own. Just upload them and post in the bugs forum instead of pointlessly spamming this thread.

[badgith]

3 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

Or you could upload a save and let the developer do the analysis and then improve the game.

Your analysis will just be you banging on about your Porto and Curzon Ashton saves with no end in sight.

I know more about those saves than I know about my own. Just upload them and post in the bugs forum instead of pointlessly spamming this thread.

Of course they are about this 2 because thats what I have played, how you expect me to argument without them? I will not be here saying "Its easy(hard) if you (don't) exploit AI" and discuss that, I want to talk about the problem, and thats on FM so I will be bringing my stats to the question because that way I can contribute, I can upload my save to the forum, but first I would want to be sure I'm the unique person feelling it or if on your saves it happens too, because thats the point of the conversation . Now I know where you got your nick.

[flame13]

FM21 Beta is easier than FM20. The opposition AI is incredibly passive in most of the matches. I think that SI are aware of the issue and hope that we will have a more balanced game on official release date.

[vukigepard]

15 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

Literally no one in this thread asked for that. And if it was mention, it certainly wasn't from the majority.

 

also people shouldn't have to rely on the editor to make fundamental changes to the game. In an unbalanced way i might add.

My whole discussion in this thread last night was with a person wanting to nerf the attack, where you remarked that you have no idea what was even debated.

On the second part, they should if specific minor group asks specifically for their flavor of the game. As I said, i'm almost perfectly happy with the game, and so are the people playing the beta that do not bother coming to the forums, this thread, and so are the majority of people in feedback thread. Only when it comes to this specific thread raised for this specific problem some people have, where there is 56-44 in favor for the game being to easy in a poll  with so much skewed options that demean anyone who thinks the game is not too easy. And then, you have people that come here, post holidayed klopp tactics designed to break the game who don't want to bother with tactics as a proof that the game is easy.

[Mars_Blackmon]

25 minutes ago, vukigepard said:

My whole discussion in this thread last night was with a person wanting to nerf the attack, where you remarked that you have no idea what was even debated.

On the second part, they should if specific minor group asks specifically for their flavor of the game. As I said, i'm almost perfectly happy with the game, and so are the people playing the beta that do not bother coming to the forums, this thread, and so are the majority of people in feedback thread. Only when it comes to this specific thread raised for this specific problem some people have, where there is 56-44 in favor for the game being to easy in a poll  with so much skewed options that demean anyone who thinks the game is not too easy. And then, you have people that come here, post holidayed klopp tactics designed to break the game who don't want to bother with tactics as a proof that the game is easy.

Oh figured. the back and forth conversation that went left field from the thread. Hence why i was lost.

[Mars_Blackmon]

There are at least 10 different threads on this in the bug forum and one is from the French board.

Obviously something is wrong.

 

 

[Icy]

It's fun arguing in this thread, but please guys, upload games, saves and discuss it in the following link as well to provided feedback if you want this researched and fixed if needed: 

 

 

[Wavelberry]

Okay. Have started with my generic gengen Wycombe and an interesting thing happened in this game.

I'd lost the previous 2 and Luton were heavy favourites but didn't even bother their arse to take me on when they were at home. 

An easy win in a match that shouldn't have been so easy.