Do you want the full release to be harder than the beta?

[Flinsenberger]

A good game is a game that rewards playing well and where the success depends on the skill (or luck) of the player. When judging myself in regards to skill and effort, my results are significantly better than my team or my efforts.

In the current beta success is easy to come by.

• Offensive tactics seem to be rewarded.
• Strikers and Inside Forwards appear to be highly effective.
• The A.I. appears to struggle in away matches.

I am by no means a FM expert, being in the Beta is my 2nd save at all. While being generally good at games, after 9 games I top the league. The team was predicted 10th at preseason, 6th after transfers. My team has conceded 4 goals over 9 games. To be precise, 4 goals in 2 games, having a clean sheet in 7. The team conceded 1 goal at home. The team scored the most goals in the league, 22 in 9 matches, mainly from the forwards and from penalties.

This all without setting up standards, neither defensively nor offensively. No match plans. Two tactics, homemade, 4-4-2 and 4-5-1. Starting out with a counter Route One, but switching to a shorter tiki-taka / gegenpress / counter when the route one didn't create enough chances. I do not analyze the opponent before matches, i do not scout them. In the match i sometimes turn off work into the box, play over the wings when facing 2 DMs or change positions around a bit to be more offensively minded. Sometimes adding a defensive midfielder on defense and pulling back the full backs when I am 2 goals ahead. So on a scale of 1-10 i'd rate myself around 5-6 in regards to match tactics. What I do is taking care of a good atmosphere, and praising the players when they do well in training, while telling them I am unhappy when they train below a 7.

My tactics work extremely well, although the team has the lowest passing, lowest decisions, and only 15th highest vision skill in the  league. In other skills like pace, acceleration, long shots and finishing the team is also near the bottom. In some mental skills like Work Rate, Positioning, Team Work, Bravery, Anticipation and Determination the team is in the top group of the league or the best team. It has good stamina as well.

There has still to be a match where I did not lead in xG. So when looking at the statistics, from my 3 draws 2 seem to be unfortunate. Admittedly I haven't yet played against most of the stronger teams of the league. Furthermore I was awarded 4 penalties in 9 matches.

I am really not a fan of making things too hard. And it is better to err on the side of making the game easier, than making it harder. It appears to me, though, that playing a tiki-taka shortpass game with the worst passing team in the league... is counter intuitive. Maybe that is how it is supposed to work. Don't pass the ball long, because you are bad at it.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Flinsenberger

[dannysheard]

9 hours ago, Spallo said:

Hello guys,

after having read the entire thread, I think there ist a profound misunderstanding what FM is and, a different thing, has become over the last 10 years or so ...

let me elaborate in three sections. At first smth about me and then the misunderstandings.

1. I am litterally the so called casual player. A 39 year old divorced dad of two, with a third newborn on my hands with my new wife. Luckily I have a homeoffice job (even without covid) which earns me decent money in a half days work and I can play games as a hobby, for one or two hours a day   And I will say this ... it is insulting to casuals, if they get blamed fpr wanting FM to be easy. I dont and I hardly think the majority of casuals want that either.

Last FM i played was 2014 (before 2010) and I was mostly terrible at it. Had the thought for some time to come back and now it was time for me to jump into the new FM and see what it has become. Started a unemployed safe with a no experience manager ... got a job at Alta IF in the norwegian third division (where I had a 38 yeah olf Morten Gamst Pedersen to my surprise ). Season goal was top half finish and I thought, yeah weill, lets see about this. I competed for promotion but in the and didnt made the playoffs and got exactly the media prediction. I make my own tactics and dont watch any "cheat" stuff ... so thats on my own. So I did overachieve in a sense, that I was better than I thought, but not better than the game thought I should.

2. The first misunderstanding in my opinion is the way people thing FM is too easy. Have in mind, that I dont know the versions of 15 till 20. FM has come a long way till now and gives sunday footballers like me far better tools to beat the game. Like some dude earlier said ... SI made the tools far more accessible and understandable and I would argue way more intuitive and ultimatly more realistic. I dont have to study slider science aymore, which is great, because it was such an arbitrary concept of trying to picture complex football. Now we do what most managers or head coaches do ... we can give general instructions to players or the whole squad. That works for almost every other aspect of the game espacially training ...

My point is ... the game in general is not easier than before, but the tools for understanding it gotten way better. I think its fair to say, that the AI should have improved with it, but hasnt in a way to counter the benifits of the better tools. I get that some hardcore players dont like that and in the long run I wont either. But for FM in general this is a great development, because it means, that more realism has come to the game. I think dannysheard is no better real life manager than me, but better at understanding the game mechanics ... his edge is way thinner now and that means the game design towards realism works perfectly fine. Thats oversimplistic, but I think you guys get the point.

3. Perhaps the greater problem is, what people think FM to be. It is no life simulator, it is still a (complex) game, that can be beaten. And, maybe more important, it is and will always be a sandbox and a quite good one at that. There is no point in arguing it is too easy, because every game gets easy at some point. For example ... If you play EU4, another extreme complicated sandbox, then at first you will get crushed most of the time. You get better, better still and then better still and in the end go on with albania to rule the world. The AI is decent in this game and can be very challenging, but if you learn the mechanics, use the synergies and do everything right, then you are a god in this game. FM is pretty similiar, because the hardcore players are gods in this game and can do whatever they want with every team. I dont know how many are out there, but there is nothing that can satisfy you and I will guarantee you, that more RNG is not of your liking and I wohl say even a boost fpr the AI will not, because you cant blame yourself if you loose. The only solution for you guys is to move on and become a real life manager 

 

That being said and my humble opinion ... I want the game actually be a bit harder in post beta and I do see the problems of overachieving. But I do also think ... If you play like me, start at the very bottom, no skills, attribute masking on etc. then you will have a challenge no matter what. And yeah, eventually you I win the CL with whatever garbage team, but despite all flaws I dont get it handed to me 

 

see ya

I may be a cynic, but I took this as saying ‘I’m not very good at the game, don’t really know I’m doing and still overachieved a bit.’

I, for one, don’t want the base game to be harder because lots of people are like you, play it every now and then, and should be allowed to have an enjoyable game.

For those nerds like me, that take it very seriously and know all the tools, it’s just too easy.

Even if I start with a bad team, and add in rules to make it harder for myself, I still find it too easy.

It’s like a game to see who can dig a hole in the ground faster, the AI or me, and every year they give us new tools (spade, digger, excavator) that the AI doesn’t know how to use.

[dannysheard]

7 hours ago, Bruce Drundrige said:

My two cents, without having read the thread and this may have been mentioned already, is that it can be as hard as you want it to be. For the beta, I've only played the Youth Academy challenge, starting as a previously unplayable team in the Scottish League 2.

I only had 15 players, including 1 GK and 2 CDs...one of whom left in January. I was sacked in February. I don't think I've ever been sacked without an ultimatum before.

I immediately started the challenge again in a different country. Great fun trying to make it work based on the strict parameters set. 

If it's too easy for you - a) well done and b) maybe try something completely different within the game. Can you win the Champions League with Greenock Morton (please)? Can you win something with a team of homegrown players? Can you get San Marino to the World Cup? 

Not many of us consider that a worthy use of the game.

It’s like buying an F1 game but only driving the team bus.

[iAlwaysWin]

21 minutes ago, Flinsenberger said:

I am by no means a FM expert, being in the Beta is my 2nd save at all. While being generally good at games, after 9 games I top the league. The team was predicted 10th at preseason, 6th after transfers.

Am sick of this judging difficulty and gameplay after such small amount of games, i hear it all time, am 1st after x amount of games, its 10 games, why dont you report back when the season is done and see where you are.

[dannysheard]

7 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Am sick of this judging difficulty and gameplay after such small amount of games, i hear it all time, am 1st after x amount of games, its 10 games, why dont you report back when the season is done and see where you are.

I think for a lot of us it’s been 5+ years.

[iAlwaysWin]

Just now, dannysheard said:

I think for a lot of us it’s been 5+ years.

Am afraid not, its not most of us at all, there's a post only 1 page back complaining the game is to easy just after 15 games lol.

[Kotlovina]

This is not me. I found on facebook

[Wavelberry]

Haaland

Sancho

Ronaldo

Hmmmmmmmmm

[blitzcreed]

The game 'difficulty' should be left the way that it is. I watched some guy on youtube questioning the games difficulty whilst managing Man United and winning the league in the first season. Try winning the league with an average team in the first season outside of the top six! Of course one will find the game easier if you start off with a world class club. 

Someone else on here had the audacity to say that the game was too easy whilst managing Celtic! What do you expect!!!! Pointless thread!

Edited November 23, 2020 by blitzcreed

[TheVerySpecialOne]

I want it to be hard, no sense of accomplishment if it's too easy, if there's no challenge. I always admired how challenging FM is a a mainly offline game where you compete against AI, something where I felt I could brag about if winning things. If it's too easy, the enjoyment just isn't there. Europa Universalis, Kings Crusader are difficult games, but you can win if you use the tools correctly, and you feel like you made that happened because you did certain things with purpose etc., it should be challegning, and I am all for it being harder, we'll see how the full game will look like in that aspect.

[TheVerySpecialOne]

1 minute ago, blitzcreed said:

The game 'difficulty' should be left the way that it is. I watched some guy on youtube questioning the games difficulty whilst managing Man United and winning the league in the first season. Try winning the league with an average team in the first season outside of the top six! Of course one will find the game easier if you start off with a world class club. 

Someone else on here had the audacity to say that the game was too easy whilst managing Celtic! What do you expect!!!! Pointless thread!

We've seen guys winning with Watford in the second season etc, I doubt there there are people in this thread complaining how they are winning with the best teams in the world.

[iAlwaysWin]

1 minute ago, TheVerySpecialOne said:

We've seen guys winning with Watford in the second season etc, I doubt there there are people in this thread complaining how they are winning with the best teams in the world.

You can win the league with Watford in FM20 or FM19 or FM18 , you want me to go on,? i dont quite see your point here, it would be a problem if every single person who ever played FM could win the league with Watford with zero effort, but this isn't the case at all.

[Flinsenberger]

54 minutes ago, iAlwaysWin said:

Am sick of this judging difficulty and gameplay after such small amount of games, i hear it all time, am 1st after x amount of games, its 10 games, why dont you report back when the season is done and see where you are.

If you are sick you might want to visit a doctor.

My observations are well in tune with the observations of other people. It is not your place to judge whether someone can add to a discussion or not.

[FlorianAlbert9]

19 minuti fa, blitzcreed ha scritto:

The game 'difficulty' should be left the way that it is. I watched some guy on youtube questioning the games difficulty whilst managing Man United and winning the league in the first season. Try winning the league with an average team in the first season outside of the top six! Of course one will find the game easier if you start off with a world class club. 

Someone else on here had the audacity to say that the game was too easy whilst managing Celtic! What do you expect!!!! Pointless thread!

Manchester won PL in 2013-14 last time. It not seem to be so easy win the PL for MU in real life. 

Arsenal in 2003-04

Tottenham in 1960-61. 

Liverpool waited for 30 years before winning another title last year.

Edited November 23, 2020 by FlorianAlbert9

[Daveincid]

If 1000 people playing with Watford, maybe 5 of them would win the prem in their first season. Maybe 3 of them would find it soo strange and will raise it in this forum.  So you get a missleading thread because the other 995 people aren't represented with the same force. I mean what were the odds IRL when Leicester won the prem? It happends, it's just very unlikely.  On the other side I think it really is easier to not get relegated with a bottom team. But it's a game, you can take much more risk without any pressure that manager or players have IRL. 

[jase19]

Isn't there also a way to hide attributes?  I used to do that years ago doing lower league management but I just don't have it in me anymore.

There are so many ways to make this game harder, people like to complain...

Edited November 23, 2020 by jase19

[Spallo]

@dannysheard

You missed the point completly mate. I did overachieve in my own view because I didnt exspect to reach the goal of top half finish with a comfortably margin. The game thought I come up in the exactly right place, so I did reasonably well as the manager, without ovrperforming at all.

And I exspected to be worse, because I did not know how far the FM in terms of realism and better tools has come. Thats the point I am making.

You point out EVERY SINGLE POST that you are one of the gods of the game. We get that and its fine, but you dont seem to understand how games work. Now even I have the tools to be relativly good at the game, without delving into rocket science (bit Ironic, because one of my most played games is KSP ). So you are just as good as ever, but I can be better than in prvious iterations and keep in mind I am talking FM14 backwards ...

I acknowlegde that the game could be a bit too easy and that some things should be sorted out, but do you rly think that will satisfy you? 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Spallo

[JordanMilly]

9 hours ago, GOODNAME said:

Every year its at midnight , but in there are lot of bugs in this BETA so maybe it will not be tomorrow at midnight 

A lot of posts in the beta bug forum isn't the same as a lot of bugs. Whilst people have been contributing more to spotting and reporting bugs (which is very much appreciated), a significant number of posts are about the same bugs, not different ones.

[HUNT3R]

Have hidden posts again. Keep on topic. Thanks.

[Junkhead]

2 hours ago, dannysheard said:

I may be a cynic, but I took this as saying ‘I’m not very good at the game, don’t really know I’m doing and still overachieved a bit.’

I, for one, don’t want the base game to be harder because lots of people are like you, play it every now and then, and should be allowed to have an enjoyable game.

For those nerds like me, that take it very seriously and know all the tools, it’s just too easy.

Even if I start with a bad team, and add in rules to make it harder for myself, I still find it too easy.

It’s like a game to see who can dig a hole in the ground faster, the AI or me, and every year they give us new tools (spade, digger, excavator) that the AI doesn’t know how to use.

Mate, me and you have gone back and forth over this for a fair few days across a number of threads. We're in agreement that the AI needs improving to a level where it can give the user a challenge.

What we don't agree on - and what I find quite insulting every time you bring it up - is that you take the game any more seriously than anyone else.

I'm showing my age here, but when Championship Manager was released I was 11. I've owned every version in the series since. I've got thousands of hours on every version. This idea that you are in any way more serious about the game than others is doing nothing to back your argument up. As I do every year, despite knocking on a bit now, I booked a week off work to coincide with the new release.

You created a thread the other day explaining that you only really want to play as Liverpool. I said in there that they have just won the Premier League with a record points total and that you were no doubt improving their already world class squad even further through player purchases.  You said you didn't think you would enjoy playing as a lower team and that wasn't how you wanted to use the game.

Don't get me wrong, play the way you want. That is completely fair enough. But you need to accept that the chances are your going to find the game easy. You've said you also do well starting lower down the leagues because of the "tools" you have available. What tools?

When I was 11 and playing championship manager, I won lots of leagues and cups. By the time I'd done so repeatedly across a few installments, I got bored. I had two options - play the game a different way or stop playing it because I was bored. So that's what I did.

I'm not saying don't post on here and discuss it - that is fair enough and what the board is for. However no matter how much the AI is improved, the easiest side to win cups with are a side that have just won the league with a silly number of points.

I get you want to play however you want and I a million percent want the AI to offer as much of a challenge as possible.

But you really need to knock this narrative on the head whereby you think everyone who doesn't agree is some sort of casual player who wants an easy ride. It's not the case.

 

[Spallo]

@dannysheard

and when I think about it ... its quite telling that you imply that I shouldnt be good at this game because I dont know about the mechanics that much. Thats right, I dont have a deep understanding about the many ways you can improve in this game. But I should do reasonably well, because I have some knowledge about football in real life (played relativly high in german youth football).

SI has done a wonderful job the last years to improve realism, because with this knowledge I can dive into FM and can manage a team. You are playing the game and I try to be a manager with my understanding of football ... why should I loose? If you can explain this to me in a convincing manner, then we might find some middle ground here. But for now you present a understanding of FM thats the complete opposite of what SI is tring to achieve.

[Junkhead]

26 minutes ago, Spallo said:

@dannysheard

and when I think about it ... its quite telling that you imply that I shouldnt be good at this game because I dont know about the mechanics that much. Thats right, I dont have a deep understanding about the many ways you can improve in this game. But I should do reasonably well, because I have some knowledge about football in real life (played relativly high in german youth football).

SI has done a wonderful job the last years to improve realism, because with this knowledge I can dive into FM and can manage a team. You are playing the game and I try to be a manager with my understanding of football ... why should I loose? If you can explain this to me in a convincing manner, then we might find some middle ground here. But for now you present a understanding of FM thats the complete opposite of what SI is tring to achieve.

This post hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of people (not everyone) who are saying this game is easy are playing the game. They know certain tactics are OP so they are using them. There was a thread in GD yesterday with someone saying that they got no challenge in Serie C because they had a side full of unrealistic loan signings such as people from PSG. Then it turned out that it was the user that signed them.

I am struggling to understand what people want here.  They are not willing to moderate their own behaviour or play style but we must have had 40 pages of this discussion now across multiple threads.

- Difficulty levels aren't going to happen.

- the AI should be improved as much as possible and hopefully it will be on a version by version basis.

- if you think the game is too easy, something is OP or unrealistic, post it in the bugs forum and crack on. Moderate your own behaviour if you want, but you don't have to.

Edited November 23, 2020 by Junkhead
I cannot spell.

[bemate98]

45 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

This post hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of people (not everyone) who are saying this game is easy are playing the game. They know certain tactics are OP so they are using them. There was a thread in GD yesterday with someone saying that they got no challenge in Serie C because they had a side full of unrealistic loan signings such as people from PSG. Then it turned out that it was the user that signed them.

I am struggling to understand what people want here.  They are not willing to moderate their own behaviour or play style but we must have had 40 pages of this discussion now across multiple threads.

- Difficulty levels aren't going to happen.

- the AI should be improved as much as possible and hopefully it will be on a version by version basis.

- if you think the game is too easy, something is OP or unrealistic, post it in the bugs forum and crack on. Moderate your own behaviour if you want, but you don't have to.

Obviously a fair amount of people use OP tactics and transfer methods. But when 6/10 opposition team choose to play with 5 atb when I'm at home and they give up attacking in general, that's a bug for me. 

 

During the beta I didn't feel that kind of sense of achievement that i wanted, because I knew in advance that the opp will play like **** when they are not at home 

Edited November 23, 2020 by bemate98

[Junkhead]

3 minutes ago, bemate98 said:

Obviously a fair amount of people use OP tactics and transfer methods. But when 6/10 opposition team choose to play with 5 atb when I'm at home and they give up attacking in general, that's a bug for me. 

 

During the beta I didn't feel that kind of sense of achievement that i wanted, because I knew in advance that the opp will play like **** when they are not at home 

Fair enough - so if you post in the bug forum then it might get looked at 👍

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Junkhead said:

This post hits the nail on the head for me. Lots of people (not everyone) who are saying this game is easy are playing the game. They know certain tactics are OP so they are using them. There was a thread in GD yesterday with someone saying that they got no challenge in Serie C because they had a side full of unrealistic loan signings such as people from PSG. Then it turned out that it was the user that signed them.

I am struggling to understand what people want here.  They are not willing to moderate their own behaviour or play style but we must have had 40 pages of this discussion now across multiple threads.

- Difficulty levels aren't going to happen.

- the AI should be improved as much as possible and hopefully it will be on a version by version basis.

- if you think the game is too easy, something is OP or unrealistic, post it in the bugs forum and crack on. Moderate your own behaviour if you want, but you don't have to.

The guy attempting to get those players isn’t the problem. The fact that he was successful in getting the players is the problem. The lack of difficulty in the game is not exclusive to one thing. 
 

The game is still in beta. If you don’t like the discussion then just don’t visit the threads. There are multiple threads in the bug forums that are reporting these problems and it’s probably due to some of those discussions with 40 pages.

[Spallo]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

The guy attempting to get those players isn’t the problem. The fact that he was successful in getting the players is the problem. The lack of difficulty in the game is not exclusive to one thing. 
 

The game is still in beta. If you don’t like the discussion then just don’t visit the threads. There are multiple threads in the bug forums that are reporting these problems and it’s probably due to some of those discussions with 40 pages.

This is obviously a problem and I by no means denying that. And I think nobody denies that really ... 

The term "easy" can mean almost anything in such a complex game, but if you specifically point to tactics or the ME, then you not talking about squad building etc. that obviously is a thing and esp in longterm saves you have advantages over the AI. But I cant stress this enough ... if you treat FM like a normal game, which is completly understandable, then you will find ways, no matter how difficult it is, to exploit flaws or just beat it by the mechanics given to you. If you treat it as an opportunity to play in a complex sandbox of the current footballworld, you can have a completly different experience.

Of course I want to win, but I want to win with me understandig of real football and not of how game mechanics work. FM is far from perfect in this regard, but has taken huge steps forward it seems.

[Dagenham_Dave]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

The guy attempting to get those players isn’t the problem. The fact that he was successful in getting the players is the problem. 
 

And that's your easy and hard mode right there. There's no need for difficulty levels, they're already there. 

Easy mode - Using all the tools at your disposal, however unrealistic, and overachieving. People like playing that way, FM gives them that fantasy platform

Hard mode - Having a bit of self discipline to play the game in a more realistic fashion to make it more of a challenge. 

Of course, some people will still over achieve by playing as realistically as possible, this just means you've beat the game, and like any other game, it would then be time to move on, or alter/mod stuff within the game to give you more of a challenge. 

[Junkhead]

1 hour ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

The guy attempting to get those players isn’t the problem. The fact that he was successful in getting the players is the problem. The lack of difficulty in the game is not exclusive to one thing. 
 

The game is still in beta. If you don’t like the discussion then just don’t visit the threads. There are multiple threads in the bug forums that are reporting these problems and it’s probably due to some of those discussions with 40 pages.

We are again having two different discussions - the game shouldn't let the user do that so that user should report it and move on.

The problem is that people are getting the two mixed up - because the game is letting them do what it shouldn't, people are calling for difficulty modes, etc.

I agree that this conversation is massively valuable and I am glad there are threads on the bugs forum. I've been one of the people suggesting people post stuff there. But for every valid example of the game being too easy because of poor AI, there is an example of the user finding it unrealistically easy because of choices they have made.

Since we actually agree on the main point (ie if the AI is too easy or there are bugs they should be sorted), I don't fully get why you have a problem with what I've said. But I famously often miss the point.

I'm sure that us bickering on the thread isn't going to make things any better for anyone so feel free to DM me mate - again I'm pretty certain that we agree, I'm just certain that we keep missing each others points 🙂

[Junkhead]

2 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

And that's your easy and hard mode right there. There's no need for difficulty levels, they're already there. 

Easy mode - Using all the tools at your disposal, however unrealistic, and overachieving. People like playing that way, FM gives them that fantasy platform

Hard mode - Having a bit of self discipline to play the game in a more realistic fashion to make it more of a challenge. 

Of course, some people will still over achieve by playing as realistically as possible, this just means you've beat the game, and like any other game, it would then be time to move on, or alter/mod stuff within the game to give you more of a challenge. 

This is 100% what I have been trying to say in a much clearer and more friendly way 

[a5864003]

I think tactical settings need to be more specific and that will make the game difficult. The current tactical setup is so easy that you can make a tactic that you can easily win a trophy, even a player who doesn't know how to move. And ai can't break down these tactics well even if I spend a season with no small tactical changes. It's not only so easy to feel so easy, it's also unrealistic. The great tactician Pep wins the game with a lot of anomalous movements and changes, but in fm he loses my tactics, I use only one tactic. If the tactical settings were changed more specifically, wouldn't ai be able to destroy the tactics in more diverse ways?

[Mars_Blackmon]

So the passive AI manager thing may not be a bug but a database issue.

 

 

[BrightLad5]

On 22/11/2020 at 14:56, Junkhead said:

All changes will be reflected in the full version if you continue your beta save with the possible exception of changes to competition and league rules.

There was quite a large gamebreaking bug in FM20 Beta regarding the hidden attributes of Regens I believe. It had certain attributes fixed at 1 for all regens, which effectively made long term saves unplayable if started in the beta as all Regens had terrible personalities.

I may be wrong, and apologies if I am, but wasn't this only fixable by starting a new save on full release? I only mention it as I worry if there are changes made to the ME and AI that they wont necessarily be save game compatible, although of course they could be.

[TheVerySpecialOne]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

And that's your easy and hard mode right there. There's no need for difficulty levels, they're already there. 

Easy mode - Using all the tools at your disposal, however unrealistic, and overachieving. People like playing that way, FM gives them that fantasy platform

Hard mode - Having a bit of self discipline to play the game in a more realistic fashion to make it more of a challenge. 

Of course, some people will still over achieve by playing as realistically as possible, this just means you've beat the game, and like any other game, it would then be time to move on, or alter/mod stuff within the game to give you more of a challenge. 

The problem is, unlike PES or FIFA and such games where I've always disciplined myself, Football manager has always been the game where I had to do my best to be successful, If I managed to get a big star on my team, I was like, wow, can't believe that guy joined my team, but if I have to "control" myself, game loses it's appeal for me, if I am not afraid of it so to say, and If I feel I have to dumb myself down on AI's level, it's not that fun anymore.

Edited November 23, 2020 by TheVerySpecialOne

[Nikopol]

I think there are some issuesd in the match engine that lead to some of the scores and runs that we are seeing this year. And i can easily see them being fixed.

One of the things though which really ought to be changed in my opinion is the impact of a players squad status. It remains too easy to rotate a packed squad and prevent any sort of unrest emerging if your squad. I can start a star player for 30 out of 50 matches per season and he'll be deligted with play time whereas in reality many star players get angry and frustrated if even subbed out. This allows the player to build unrealistically strong squads that we never see in real life as it would be impossible to keep your players happy.

[Mars_Blackmon]

1 hour ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

And that's your easy and hard mode right there. There's no need for difficulty levels, they're already there. 

Easy mode - Using all the tools at your disposal, however unrealistic, and overachieving. People like playing that way, FM gives them that fantasy platform

Hard mode - Having a bit of self discipline to play the game in a more realistic fashion to make it more of a challenge. 

Of course, some people will still over achieve by playing as realistically as possible, this just means you've beat the game, and like any other game, it would then be time to move on, or alter/mod stuff within the game to give you more of a challenge. 

In other words just play Fm mobile or touch...

You’re replying to a person who is currently playing DOF mode. And before that never used the player search feature to find players.

However, that doesn’t mean that loopholes shouldn’t be addressed. You are essentially telling people to ignore what some may say is the best part of the game, the transfer market. Just to avoid getting easy transfers. 
 

 

[Chris2509]

It's hard to make up my mind on this question.

On the one hand, four seasons into a PSV save, 85% of the time it feels unreasonably easy.

I haven't overachieved by any means (two league titles, one Europa league final) - but the amount of games where I score 5-7 goals against tough opponents is quite high. In my Europa League journey I knocked out Monaco, Villareal, Roma and Leverkusen - scoring respectively 7, 7, 4, 8 in both ties.  Prior to that got knocked out in the Champions League group stage, but also won 5-2 and 5-3 against Real Madrid and Red Bull Salzburg.

Malen finished the season scoring 70 goals and assisting 12 in 55 matches.

 

Then on other saves, with Schalke and Tottenham (not using Gegenpressing with those) I feel like the game is very well balanced and realistic.

[Daveincid]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Mars_Blackmon:

In other words just play Fm mobile or touch...

You’re replying to a person who is currently playing DOF mode. And before that never used the player search feature to find players.

However, that doesn’t mean that loopholes shouldn’t be addressed. You are essentially telling people to ignore what some may say is the best part of the game, the transfer market. Just because you can get easy transfers. 
 

 

About the Transfer-Topic: My guess is, that the AI is more passive because they simulate real-life in terms of "risks and psychological factors" that the human player just don't have. IRL clubs don't just buy the biggest talent's just because they have the chance. There are so many funny anecdotes: Ronaldo almost signs for Malaga. Robben to ManUdt. Even the big clubs are careful sometimes. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

14 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

In other words just play Fm mobile or touch...

 

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. 

[Dagenham_Dave]

15 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

However, that doesn’t mean that loopholes shouldn’t be addressed. You are essentially telling people to ignore what some may say is the best part of the game, the transfer market. Just to avoid getting easy transfers. 
 

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if people want a more difficult challenge, maybe try and avoid searching for cheap wonderkids - but also, the ease of which you CAN find them is in the game for people who DO want to do that. It's all about personal choice. A games company cannot possibly cater for every single user's preference. FM is, however, unique in that there is 100 different ways you can approach the game. If you've personally maxed out all of this and are still finding the game too easy, then I'm afraid it's maybe not for you anymore. 

[Mars_Blackmon]

9 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that if people want a more difficult challenge, maybe try and avoid searching for cheap wonderkids - but also, the ease of which you CAN find them is in the game for people who DO want to do that. It's all about personal choice. A games company cannot possibly cater for every single user's preference. FM is, however, unique in that there is 100 different ways you can approach the game. If you've personally maxed out all of this and are still finding the game too easy, then I'm afraid it's maybe not for you anymore. 

Yet, the response from Miles when a person on Twitter complains that the asking price for a wonder kid is too high, the response is usually  “The outrageous price means he’s not available” 

 

This lean me towards the side of things are either getting fine tuned or needs to be fine tuned even more.

 

[Junkhead]

51 minutes ago, BrightLad5 said:

There was quite a large gamebreaking bug in FM20 Beta regarding the hidden attributes of Regens I believe. It had certain attributes fixed at 1 for all regens, which effectively made long term saves unplayable if started in the beta as all Regens had terrible personalities.

I may be wrong, and apologies if I am, but wasn't this only fixable by starting a new save on full release? I only mention it as I worry if there are changes made to the ME and AI that they wont necessarily be save game compatible, although of course they could be.

Yep 100% right, forgot about that

[Mars_Blackmon]

15 minutes ago, Dagenham_Dave said:

Not sure how you come to that conclusion. 

Those versions of the game doesn’t have some of the features that the user currently have an advantage over the AI.

[Junkhead]

44 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

You are essentially telling people to ignore what some may say is the best part of the game, the transfer market. Just to avoid getting easy transfers. 

This is the exact point - it's relative. I can't get easy transfers in the Norwegian third division because I have no budget. I send my scouts out. They find rubbish. I sign the rubbish or I sign no one because I only sign players my scouts have found.

I choose to play like this because I think it's realistic.

You are using your DOF because you feel you have to.

I get your point - you shouldn't have to.

So if you think it's wrong, post about it in the bugs forum and let the Devs look at it. If you've done that already then in the meantime you can try and play around it or not.

I think you think people here who are saying things like that are being dismissive.  I just want everyone to enjoy their game. I'm genuinely disappointed for you that you can't. I hope the AI is improved in such a way that you can enjoy it again.

It's up to you what you do in the meantime.

[Mars_Blackmon]

9 minutes ago, Junkhead said:

This is the exact point - it's relative. I can't get easy transfers in the Norwegian third division because I have no budget. I send my scouts out. They find rubbish. I sign the rubbish or I sign no one because I only sign players my scouts have found.

I choose to play like this because I think it's realistic.

You are using your DOF because you feel you have to.

I get your point - you shouldn't have to.

So if you think it's wrong, post about it in the bugs forum and let the Devs look at it. If you've done that already then in the meantime you can try and play around it or not.

I think you think people here who are saying things like that are being dismissive.  I just want everyone to enjoy their game. I'm genuinely disappointed for you that you can't. I hope the AI is improved in such a way that you can enjoy it again.

It's up to you what you do in the meantime.

I rather have a discussion about the different problems in the game that contributes to make it easy so the game can become better. 
 

people are being dismissive when they reply “well don’t do it” it adds nothing to the conversation. I am sure other people who have a problem with some stuff aren’t actively doing it so it’s a moot point for people to keep saying “well play this way” we are and that’s the problem lol.

 

the answer isn’t “play random obscured league” when in due time you will eventually rule that league, you may not win champions league due to the lack of talent in the nation but you will eventually rule the league.

I am all about improving the game mechanics. I’ve been trying to do that with MLS since FM11 and it’s still a mess where the AI can’t even build a roster of 15.

[HCFC87]

One of the FM's, I think it was FM17 but I might be wrong, was way harder than the other games, and I hated playing it as a result. I could not get anything working. Constantly lost games, the AI were ruthless.

This is the complete opposite, and to be honest it's just as demotivating.

 

I'm undefeated. I chose tika-taka but amended it a fair amount, making it asymmetrical and trying something slightly weird. And aside from a couple of tweaks in the friendlies that's all I've needed to do. Not only am I undefeated, the opposition barely get a single chance, or sometimes even a single shot at my goal! And I'm a mid-table team in a poor division.

After destroying my rivals in a cup game I've stopped playing the game for now, hoping for a patch to improve the AI.

 

 

I have to also say that the ME itself seems great - it's way better than last year and seems to function well, it just seems to be the AI not knowing how to attack that's the problem, so hopefully it can be a fix that doesn't ruin the ME.

[Kotlovina]

7 minutes ago, HCFC87 said:

One of the FM's, I think it was FM17 but I might be wrong, was way harder than the other games, and I hated playing it as a result. I could not get anything working. Constantly lost games, the AI were ruthless.

This is the complete opposite, and to be honest it's just as demotivating.

 

I'm undefeated. I chose tika-taka but amended it a fair amount, making it asymmetrical and trying something slightly weird. And aside from a couple of tweaks in the friendlies that's all I've needed to do. Not only am I undefeated, the opposition barely get a single chance, or sometimes even a single shot at my goal! And I'm a mid-table team in a poor division.

After destroying my rivals in a cup game I've stopped playing the game for now, hoping for a patch to improve the AI.

 

 

I have to also say that the ME itself seems great - it's way better than last year and seems to function well, it just seems to be the AI not knowing how to attack that's the problem, so hopefully it can be a fix that doesn't ruin the ME.

Yes, fm 17 is my favourite fm. 

[Junkhead]

9 minutes ago, Mars_Blackmon said:

I rather have a discussion about the different problems in the game that contributes to make it easy so the game can become better. 
 

people are being dismissive when they reply “well don’t do it” it adds nothing to the conversation. I am sure other people who have a problem with some stuff aren’t actively doing it so it’s a moot point for people to keep saying “well play this way” we are and that’s the problem lol.

 

the answer isn’t “play random obscured league” when in due time you will eventually rule that league, you may not win champions league due to the lack of talent in the nation but you will eventually rule the league.

I am all about improving the game mechanics. I’ve been trying to do that with MLS since FM11 and it’s still a mess where the AI can’t even build a roster of 15.

The AI needs improving.

That has been established. Everyone agrees.

Nowt else to say really.

 

[SmurfDude]

I don't even know how anyone can possibly argue the game isn't too easy, and still keep a straight face. 

In its current state you'd literally have to sabotage your own team to have any sort of challenge. There are thrashings being handed out left right and center by my team and I'm a casual player. I stopped playing the beta 3 days ago as a result. It feels a little ridiculous. 

Anyone saying you should artificially make the game more difficult by managing certain teams, or doing certain things, is only confirming that it's too easy. We should be able to play normally and still get a challenge. And rankly if we're talking about realism it should be challenging no matter who you manage, with the exception of Bayern Munich who blitz their league every season.

Managing teams like City, United, Chelsea shouldn't be easy. These teams don't win every game in real life. They don't win every trophy in real life. So those saying "manage in the bottom leagues if you want a challenge" are completely missing the point and talking nonsense. 

With all that being said, it is still only a game, and there's no need for SI to go to the other extreme and make it too difficult. I hope we don't go back to the dark days of seeing 20 1vs1's being missed by world class strikers. However something does need to be done to increase the challenge, otherwise there's zero satisfaction win winning, and it all becomes pretty boring after a couple seasons. 

[Flinsenberger]

Yes, balancing is a delicate issue. And it is usually better to err on the side of the game being a bit easier than being a bit harder.

And if someone does everything right, like having the right training schedules, being active on the transfer market and making the most of it, setting up set pieces offensively and defensively, buying the right player mix for the chosen 3 tactics for various opponents and opposition tactics, scouting opponents and fine tuning their tactic to attack the opponent's weaknesses while reducing it's strength, then managing the finances and the team happiness, along with training youngsters and managing personalities, plus having the best backroom staff for the financial situation.... then this person should punch way above the weight of the team.

On the other hand when someone just loads up the game, lets the assistants do most of the stuff while using a preset tactic and just buys some random players... this person should not see as much success, and perform along or below the expectiations and the season predicitions. 

Of course, when someone "cheats" and buys known wonderkids and uses the "best free agents in FM21" lists, then that person will have a better squad and have corresponding results

Overall, however, it'd be good to have a game that rewards good play and does just reward playing it. Because winning only because you show up is boring (unless it happens at the stock market, then it is great).

[Mars_Blackmon]

28 minutes ago, SmurfDude said:

I don't even know how anyone can possibly argue the game isn't too easy, and still keep a straight face. 

In its current state you'd literally have to sabotage your own team to have any sort of challenge. There are thrashings being handed out left right and center by my team and I'm a casual player. I stopped playing the beta 3 days ago as a result. It feels a little ridiculous. 

Anyone saying you should artificially make the game more difficult by managing certain teams, or doing certain things, is only confirming that it's too easy. We should be able to play normally and still get a challenge. And rankly if we're talking about realism it should be challenging no matter who you manage, with the exception of Bayern Munich who blitz their league every season.

Managing teams like City, United, Chelsea shouldn't be easy. These teams don't win every game in real life. They don't win every trophy in real life. So those saying "manage in the bottom leagues if you want a challenge" are completely missing the point and talking nonsense. 

With all that being said, it is still only a game, and there's no need for SI to go to the other extreme and make it too difficult. I hope we don't go back to the dark days of seeing 20 1vs1's being missed by world class strikers. However something does need to be done to increase the challenge, otherwise there's zero satisfaction win winning, and it all becomes pretty boring after a couple seasons. 

Bigger clubs should be harder to manage especially if you don’t have the badges. since you’re dealing with superstar personalities, low patience board room and unrealistic fans. it also comes down to having the ability to completely ignore things like team cohesion.

 

I also wish team talks were more dynamic. It’s still pretty much the same, just say the right thing to get your team happy. Which are usually the same sequence of choices.